Written Language LD

You are right that there are specific things that should be done to remediate your daughter’s writing difficulties along with giving her some coping strategies and accomodations. My thoughts regarding remediating the problems are Occupational Therapy evaluation regarding the motor skills for handwriting and a handwriting program like “Handwriting Without Tears”, direct instruction for spelling and written language with a recognized program for those area. Accomdations would be giving her note, rather than copying off the board, not counting off for spelling if she has not had a chance to proofread. Too often teachers do not have enough training to actually help fix the problem, but there are programs that can help. Teachers need training.

OT looked at her last year regarding her pencil grip which has always been a topic of conversation since she was in the first grade. If she is reminded she will hold it correctly but eventually reverts back to this unusal grip. OT didn’t think it was necessary to put her in OT. Should I have her re-evaluated by OT ? On her IEP, what other acomodations would you recommend? This written language LD is affecting her math grade as well because of having to copy the problems out of her math onto paper.

I would strongly consider requesting another OT eval. And an Assitive technology evaluation. Laptops considerably improved my oldest son’s spelling. Assitive technology is a very needed accomodations for anyone who has difficulty in writing.

What we are doing is teaching our 5th grade daughter typing skills (using the Avko typing program), using Sequential Spelling (also from Avko) at home to improve her spelling, and I have been using Easy Grammar at home to work on capitalization, punctuation, etc. Because of my daughter’s difficulty with writing, we have gotten very tired of worksheets and I have just ordered Shurley grammar to try out as a break from Easy Grammar. Shurley is an auditory/verbal approach to grammar instruction.

As soon as my daughter can type, we plan to provide her with an AlphaSmart (school will supply one) or a laptop. Math worksheets can be scanned into an AlphaSmart so the student can type in answers.

OT may help, but realistically it’s probably not going to make handwriting sufficiently easy, fast, and accurate for the writing demands of middle school and beyond. I would ask for an OT evaluation from the school, and also the TOWL-III and perhaps the WISC.

I can’t find the website I wanted, but here’s one (I haven’t checked out yet) that seems to offer both information and strategies for dealing with written language disabilities. http://pages.cthome.net/cbristol/capd-wrt.html

Website for the Avko materials we are using is http://www.avko.org. Let me know if you want more info about the other programs I mentioned.

Mary

An accomodation for the math problems could be that she can write on the page (xeroxed from the text book if there enough space to write) or the problems are copied for her.

How old is your son ?? What is an Assistive Technology Evaluation ?? Just to give you an idea as to what I’m up against with the LD teacher. I sent a note to her today requesting an IEP meeting after the first of the year. She ask my daughter what it was that I was upset about. My daughters responses was “My spelling, I quess”. The LD teacher responded “Well, what does she want me to do about it ?” Of course I went through the roof that she would even question my daughter like that. She sent a note home asking me if I wanted to meet with her and my daughter’s regular teacher or did I want to meet with the child study committee. Any ideas on how I should handle this ? I just want my child to be successful and to recieve the help she needs. I’m listening to anyone who can help me.

There are some excellent articles on this site in the LD in Depth section under the topic writing. You may get some ideas. I sometimes forget to look under that heading when I have questions.

Darlene,

I would recommend an IEP review with the team. Read all the articles on here involving writing before you go. Some of these people here know of excellent remedial resources. You can have a list of them with you. Then go to the meeting and ask what remedial strategies are being used in the resource room. For example, how is the teacher remediating her spelling? Then you can ask if they have used Sequential Spelling by AVCO, for example. I would insist (in a nice way, of course) that they should be using a specific structured approach to remediating her written language problems. Her IEP goals should be specific enough that it is clear that they are supposed to be remediating written language.

Are you by chance in NC? We have writing tests in 4th, 7th, and 10th grades. Our state testing is horrible for LD students. I’m just waiting for the parents to challenge it, especially now that we have an exit exam for high school.

Janis

Janis,

Thank you so much for the info. I’m not sure if you had read any of my earlier postings. My problem is that during a parent/teacher conference after the first grading period I ask her LD teacher what strategies were she using in the classroom so that I could reinforce them at home. She told me she didn’t have any and was not using any. I almost fell out of my chair. I asked her about giving test orally (especially in spelling) and she looked at the regular class room teacher and asked if they could do that. Again I was shocked. This teacher has been there along time and was involved in the initial child study program when my daughter was first tested in the second grade. Needless to say I’m not happy with the performance of the LD teacher this year. I feel they are doing nothing to help her and I don’t know how to fight the system for my daughters sake. Any suggestions or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Darlene

Darlene,

That is such a difficult problem. Many parents choose to fight the system and are successful. But it takes time, money, and energy. Sometimes people choose to spend the time, energy, and money finding other ways to help their child immediately. Some go to training and work with their child at home, some hire private tutors (who are trained to work with LD). My feeling is that a child would be better off in a regular classroom with modifications and private tutoring outside of school than he would be in a resource room for any amount of time with a poor teacher with poor resources. You can request that your child be put on consultation service as opposed to direct service which would still allow the IEP modifications/accomodations.

All that said, I know there is one mother (at least) on this board who did have concerns about the resource teacher (and I presume made that known to the principal), and the teacher was replaced with one this year who has excellent additional training and is a good teacher. So there is always hope.

Janis

Okay my ten cent answer.

1. My son I was refering to is 12 years old. We requested an assistive technology evaluation,at age 9,4th grade. Had I known before this time I would of requested it at a younger age. An assistive technology evaluation is where,a team evaluates the students need for things such as a laptop to help with writing. Usually the team consists of an OT, a SLP,and possibly a special ed teacher. They evaluate the need and reccomend any type of device that might benefit the student.

2. To make comments to your daughter is, of course, extremely inappropriate. I would address this,by requesting that this not happen again.
I would include in the letter,that you will be happy to brainstorm possible accomodations and remedial techniques with her and the IEP team.

3. Don’t know what State your in,but Fla. Also has a written composition test. What they did with my son,they allowed him the accomodations of dictation. He dictated to the teacher and the teacher wrote what he said down. Thank God,he passed. He scored a 3.0 rubric which is what is needed,on his own he was scoring 1.0. Made a huge difference,and actually reflected his real ability.

Angela, I wish someone could help me. I have struggled every single year with improving the content of written language. I have not found a method at this time that fixes what I need fixed. Yes, I have programs, yes we teach prewriting strategies, etc. I have a good percentage of students who cannot:

1. logically organize ideas
2. apply what I have taught on sentence writing into a longer essay
3. cannot for the life of them tell where sentences start and end, despite extensive use of writing program like Language Circle (Project Read).
4. write stuff that makes no sense or has huge leaps and gaps

I am the resource teacher and I have struggled to fix written language deficits with my students for years, with little improvement in many students.

I am forming a hypothesis. I am finding some patterns. Many ADHD-looking students cannot write in an organized fashion, despite the use of strateties. These are students who are not diagnosed because their families refuse to do so. The one single time we had a parent have her 5th grade son diagnosed and medicated (I had him since gr. 2), his writing skills immediately improved when he had the ability to focus on the task for a period of time. I am also seeing some possible correlation to IQ and writing. My students who have IQ scores below 100 most frequently are the ones, in addition to possible ADHD, write “nonsense” that makes no sense to anyone. MY students who exceed IQ scores of 100 more often can seem to organize their thoughts and write them down, even if spelling is atrocious and periods are missing.

I post this because I am as frustrated as the parents. I am the teacher who is tasked with the job and not getting the results from many students. I truly don’t know what to do nor do I know how to do it any better. Do you have any ideas I have not tried?

Anitya,

I would tend to think your hypothesis would be correct…at least in my experience, anyway. I dread the point when my child gets to the writing test age. I think writing is by far the toughest thing to teach. It sounds like you are trying everything you can. That’s about all anyone can expect. Even the best teachers can’t “fix” everything. But you heart is in the right place, and I think that is the number one attribute of a good teacher. That will mean a teacher will have the desire to keep up with new methods and do his/her best to reach all the children. And that’s all you can do.

Janis

My hat goes off to you . It seems as though you truely care. I only wish my daughters LD teacher was half as concerned as you are about your students. If I felt my daughters LD teachers was putting forth any effort I probably would not be on this board today. To give you an example, at the end of the first grading period this year, when report cards came out and the LD teacher sends a copy of her progress report all she did was pull a copy from last year added grade 4( so under grade it states 3 + 4) to the top and made a copy of it and sent it home. She made no comments of her own. From where I sit, the LD teacher is seems to be more of a teachers aid to the regular classroom teachers. Needless to say I am frustrated. I feel this is an important grade because it is setting the boundries for the future with book work, note taking, and reports ,etc…, my daughter is going to miss out on instructions that will help her in the future because her LD teacher has become so complacent. Whats a parent to do ??

I’d pull her out of the class. It is useless. Last year we had a situation where my son’s resource teacher was basically not well trained at even the weak programs the district was using (I even had district people admit this to me). She was also very difficult to work with—didn’t reply to notes ect. My son was so weak though that he couldn’t survive in a regular class. (your child may do fine with accomodations). So I pulled him out of school for part of the day and homeschooled him. The district had a fit but couldn’t stop me legally (they even asked their lawyer types). I managed to maintain a good relationship with the principal who told me informally that she would let me, if she could.

Then the teacher left and the principal hired someone good!! Life is better now!! But I think we have to protect our kids. Mine was the only one in resource room who was reading close to grade level and that is because I taught him myself.

Beth

Anitya,

You are right about ADD creating problems in writing. I personally know this struggle. There is a big difference in my writing on meds and off meds. I have found what happens with students who have ADD brains is that they definitely have a problem organizing their thoughts. I liken it to having all these thoughts and great ideas streaming through your brain like rubber balls bouncing all over but you need struture through an outline or discuss it with someone who has the organizational skills to teach you how to get your ideas on to the paper in a fashion that makes sense.

I am very creative, I have TONS of ideas but sometimes I can’t see the way through my forest of ideas without a map (outline) that provides me the structure to get through the trees, flora and fauna of ideas to get to my thoughts organized so that it makes sense for someone else to follow. Without the outline my thoughts run helter skelter, and when I am under pressure with comps it is even worse. One of my professors told me once: “You either tell me too much, more than I would ever want to know, or you are close to but you didn’t give me the key terms I wanted. In other words I am great at circumlocution…LOL. But if I have a research paper, with plenty of time and a strong outline with hours of editing I can crank it out.

Did you use the Strengthening a Students Writing Through Focus by William Spivey aka Writing Express on the Web? Spivey’s program has helped my daughter and other ADD students that I have worked with organize their thoughts. It takes the grammar words out and doesn’t have all the shapes like Project Write has. It teaches you a basic sentence is a who/what and an action, and ways to expand the sentences. I really like it plus there are fun card games to do with students to help them learn to write better sentences with expanders.

Anitya, you do such a capable job with training and skill behind you. I think so many of the posts reflect frustration with teachers who have no training and think they don’t need any. That said, I know how difficult it is to teach when the children’s needs are so varied and your time and resources are limited. I was just exposed to the Language Circle/Project Read writing programs now at my new job. I have not had a chance to see results yet. But, I ALWAYS like a structured, systematic approach that gives a child things to hang their ideas on. Also, as much as it does not produce anything terribly creative, I have felt that the Power Writing technique gives kids very weak in writing a format. They write an intro listing three things to be covered, then a paragraph about first,…, second… third…, and in conclusion… Another thought is the curriculum of the Strategies Intervention Model from the University of Kansas. (PENS) etc. They provide a very structured approach. For myself I mostly modeled brainstorming to get some ideas maybe using a graphic organizer. Then organizing ideas into an outline and writing an opening sentence that leads into enough details for a 5 paragraph essay.

Well THAT was a discouraging post to read! My son seems to be one of those kids who can’t seem to get the writing piece. He has been evaluated for ADHD, but the finding was borderline to mild, and meds were not recommended. We later learned that he has NLD, and find that he has little trouble attending if he is not anxious, so the ADHD finding may not be accurate anyway. He has a high-average IQ, (FS 119) with a 22 pt VIQ/PIQ split.

He is in 5th grade, and his writing _is_ improving slowly, with the help of both very good LA teacher and a great SPED teacher. The problem seems to be with his other teacher, who does math, science and social studies. He recently brought home a paper for social studies with a “D” grade, not because of content, but because of writing issues. (neatness, spelling, complete sentences, capitalization, etc.) In L.A., where he is given the time and help to go back and re-write and correct, his end product is often quite acceptable, and he has yet to receive a grade less than “B” on a paper. (although I’m pretty sure they are taking his disability into consideration with those grades)

This is our first year with more than one teacher to deal with in terms of grades, and I fear it is only a sign of things to come. This teacher is fully aware of his IEP, and knows that he has goals specifically for written expression. She has also already been specifically told to either prompt him and give him time to go back and correct his work, or to grade on content only.

Any hints on how a parent deals with teachers like this? From what I’ve seen and read, no matter what we do, he’s likely to lag behind his peers in this area for some time to come. It is frustrating for him to get high grades on tests in both science and social studies, and then get horrible marks on long writing assignments that are based on the same basic material. Homework assignments are OK, because either I or his SPED teacher help him edit. But he isn’t given the extra time and prompting he needs to make a second pass on class room work.

Karen

Karen,

That teacher sounds like she is in violation of the accomodations written in the IEP. Save those papers! You may want to take a friendly approach first and call the SPED teacher and tell her that the teacher is not following the IEP and you would certainly hate to have to make a big deal about it…but you will if she does not start making the accomodations immediately. If that doesn’t work, then I’d write a formal letter to the principal stating that your child’s IEP is not being followed and why and you are requesting a written response of how they will fix the problem of this teacher not following the IEP. That should scare them into having a serious talk with that teacher. The IEP is a legal document and she has NO choice except to follow it.

If by chance these accomodations are not clearly written in the IEP (not counting off for spelling, allowing use of a spell checker, allowing rewriting of papers, etc.) you need to call for an IEP team meeting to discuss adding them.

Janis

Hi Janis,

The SPED teacher, the SPED coordinator and the principal are all well aware of the problem. Since Sept., we have met at least 4 times to deal with these issues. I seem to spend most of my time writing letters. Each time, the newest “problem” is addressed, and my position has been supported by the SPED coordinator and principal.

But it’s not a simple situation to resolve. They actually offered to move him to another class in early Nov., but at the 5th grade level, teachers work in “teams”. We have this one teacher who is very difficult and demanding, but as I mentioned, both his language arts teacher and his SPED teacher are great. If we moved him, he would have a completely new team, and who knows whether we would be in a better position or not? Particularly with an NLD kid, whose needs are not very well understood by MOST school staff.

While they did say that they would move him if we wanted them to, they encouraged us to leave him where he was, assuring us that the teacher was really trying, just didn’t understand how to deal with him, and they would have the SPED teacher work more closely with her. (in our school system, the SPED teacher is NOT like a “classroom aide” as someone else mentioned in regards to their schools. Here, the SPED teacher has the primary responsibility of coordinating for the needs of a child on an IEP in an inclusion classroom) Between their assurances that they would monitor the situation more closely, and the fact that like many NLD kids, my son doesn’t transition very well, we decided to leave him where he was.

Things were better for a little while… the teachers comments on papers were much more supportive and less nit-picky. But now, 6 weeks later, they are sliding right back down again. We just met Monday with the SPED coordinator again, and asked for a number of accomodations (that you would have thought were obvious and not need to be written out) be officially added to his IEP via an amendment.

At this point, whether he gets a “D” on a paper is certainly not going to make or break his school career. They don’t even have graded report cards. What worries me is the demoralizing effect on him of all the negative comments, and the fact that writing a comment and handing back a test doesn’t teach him how to fix it. A “That’s great information, now you need to go back and fix the punctuation and spelling before you give it back to me.” would help him learn what needs to be fixed.

He doesn’t need a Franklin speller or grammar checker. In isolation he spells very well and knows the grammar punctuation rules that he’s responsible for. (he has scored consistently in the 98th percentile in Stanford testing for spelling all through school) But getting his thought down on paper is SO hard for him, that all that other stuff just gets forgotten. He HAS to be prompted to go back, and then given the time to proof read and edit. His teachers at the end of last year were THRILLED that SOMETIMES he was remembering to go back and check without being prompted.

As is so often the case with NLD kids, if you pressure him and make him anxious, things that he knew yesterday just seem to fly right out of his mind. (that’s when he’s likely to look ADHD!) And in this class, with this teacher, he is anxious all the time. So with the most demanding teacher, he is making the most mistakes, and doing the worst work. She sees what he CAN do under the right circumstances, and seems to believe that he is for some reason willfully “not” doing what he should in her class.

We will continue to try to solve the problems as they crop up with this teacher as long as we think she’s trying to figure it out, and as long as he seems to be handling it emotionally. But a Zebra can’t change its stripes, and this teacher’s style is not a good fit for a kid like this. I know that the further we get into his school career, the more different teachers I know we’ll have to deal with. I wish I knew a better way to solve the problem. I hate to have to micro-manage the situation, and I’m SURE the school staff hates me doing it. But I really don’t know another answer. Any ideas?

Karen

Karen,

Be prepare to micro-manage for child and his education for the rest of his school years. My sister also has a son that is ADD and LD in written language. Unfortunately he was not diagnoised until he was in the 6th grade. He is in high school. I can remember her having lots of trouble with his teachers in middle school, but she loves the teachers he has had so far in high school. Having seen what she has gone through with him (even though they live in a different state) is what has taught me to look for the red flags for my daughter. It is unfortunate that we as parents have to watch dog over the schools and teachers to make sure they are doing their jobs and doing it corrrectly.

Janis,

I have an IEP meeting scheduled after the holidays. All the things you mentioned(not counting off for spelling or puncuations, allowing time to redo papers to make corections, using a spell check and having papers copied for her instead of having to write them from a book) are things I want to put into my daughters IEP. But when or where to you draw the line as not to handicap the child. OR can you do such a thing. In previous meetings the comment has been made to me that if I put all these things into her IEP then all I’m doing is making it so easy that she will never learn to write. Are they right ?? Is it possible to over accommidate a child?

What if you put in a special accommodation for Science and Social Studies that allowed your child to tape record his answers to be tested orally. I know that this is not the answer for every bit of work in these classes but it would allow you child to show what he knows without being penalized for his disability.

Helen

Darlene,

I do believe it is possible to over-accomodate. In my state, no one is exempt from the state testing if they want a regular diploma. So if you have accomodations like adapted grading where the child gets a “free” grade, then it is difficult to know if they have really met the standards of the class. Then it will come back to haunt the child when taking the high school exit exam. Now there are some test accomodations like extended time, mark answers in the test booklet, dictation to a scribe, etc. So if those are needed, it would make sense to use them in class. Those still allow the child to show what they have learned. Some children just can’t spell, though. So if remediation has been tried and you have given up, then I personally do not see any reason for counting off for spelling. Although my recommendation would be for the child to use a spell checker so the spelling would be correct. I suppose it really depends on what your state tests.

Unfortunately, we will begin to see many LD students begin to drop out as our new exit exam takes effect. We have had state end of course tests at the high school level for some time. The tests are curved, though. They are now required to count those exams for 25% of the final grade (which I hate). The kids have to have a good average going into the exam so the exam won’t have too negative of an effect. I really hate what the testing system has done to kids. I really wish there could be more than one diploma, too. But the public school system is a mess, and it will be very hard to change it. Sorry to get on my soapbox!

I think your daughter’s accomodations will help her learn. I’d go ahead with those.

Janis

Karen,

You have handled this exactly right. I would also be hesitant to move a child mid-year, especially when the other regular teacher is good. Sometimes we have to make compromises to make the best of a situation. If only states would require all teacher candidates to have a year of special ed. training before beginning to teach, a lot of problems would be reduced. Inclusion is here to stay and regular teachers must learn how to teach all children. Those who do not like to teach children with special needs need to find a new career. I guess in your position, I would just explain to my child that this teacher was trained to teach in one way, and she does not know how to adapt her teaching to meet the needs of the many different children in her class.Tell him she is TD (teaching disabled) and he will have to make accomodations for her until the end of the year. ;-) (only half kidding!).

Janis

Anitya,
Of course this post tweaked me a little. While I am sure their are Many ADHD looking children who if only their parents would faced the reality of diagnosis and medication,their children would magicly write better,their are others who are not ADHD,or might look like ADHD,who are NOT ADHD.

I can tell you the one thing that helped my children beyond anything else.

Their teacher,DOES NOT grade grammar,spelling,or neatness,UNLESS the assignment is Grammar,Spelling or neatness.

While both of my children are ADHD,and on medication,neither improved in the area of written language by simply taking medication. Not that their teacher’s didn’t try and believe that meds would help,not that I didn’t firmly believe meds would help. It didn’t. They still had trouble with flow of ideas,they still had trouble with spelling,and they still didn’t not use puncuation.

My oldest stopped spelling phoneticly when he started using his laptop. My youngest started writing AWARD winning stories when he started using his laptop.
To this day,my youngest CAN NOT write legibly,but his teacher can read it. His teacher doesn’t waste time making him write it over legibly,his teacher doesn’t mark off for mistakes he has made. If it is a story,if it is a composition he is graded for the content,not what grammar mistakes he has made. Ironicly,both of my children magicly improved in the area of grammar,and spelling. Not with a program,not with a specifc technique,not with being berated for it’s neatness. From being allowed to write for the joy of it,for be allowed to write to write. They must have gotten something out of being instructed on all those rules of grammar,but when the pressure was off,this is when they improved.

Ha! My son was sitting near me when I read your post and laughed. He asked what I was laughing about, so I let him read it too. He laughed too. It’s easier to see the humor in the situation when we’re on Christmas break and out of the pressure cooker. We’ll try to keep our sense of humor as the school year progresses! Thanks.

Karen

Middle school (looming only half a year away) scares me most!

Karen

If we need to, we’ll have to do something like that. The SPED teacher already re-tested him orally on one test that he bombed on in class, just because he was feeling so pressured. But he CAN do a written response with a litle support and understanding, so I really think it would be better for him to get the practice if they would just do it in a non-punitive manner.

Karen

Do I remember that one (or more) of yours is NLD as well?

Karen

no,NLD,although a huge split between performance and verbal IQ. They are both classified ADHD/Gifted/LD( dysgraphia) One has “math disorder” the other has CAPD