PACE, Audiblox?

We did PACE this past Fall for my 10 year old son who has many of the same troubles you describe. It did help his concentration level, processing speed, some memory issues and we both learned several new techniques to help him learn. It is definately worthwhile, but I’d suggest that you wait and do it during the summer because it is intense and requires a lot from the child and parent. It was difficult to get the maximum benefits, and it added stress when lumped on top of the regular school schedule. Although we did see benefits. PACE requires that one parent work for at least 3-4 hour long sessions each week with their child. My son was very compliant about working with me. But, it was hard for him to do PACE after a long school day. There is just only so much mental energy left to tap in to. I’m sure he would have gained more ground if we had done the whole program in the summer.

We haven’t tried Audioblox. I’ve read good things about it on this board.

We did PACE, and it was extremely helpful. However, we were homeschooling at the time and that was basically all we did. It requires a dedicated commitment of time and energy — well worth it, but you have to be realistic about fitting it in.

Also, gains from PACE are limited by any unaddressed deficits on the sensory/motor level of development. It is a good idea to get a CAPD evaluation (see http://pages.cthome.net/cbristol/), a developmental vision evaluation (see http://www.children-special-needs.org and http://www.covd.org), and an OT evaluation — and any recommended vision, sound, and motor therapies — out of the way before investing time and energy in PACE.

In the meantime, what I would recommend (while you are arranging for evaluations) is starting Reading Reflex and Audiblox at home. These are both inexpensive approaches that tend to be very helpful. Reading Reflex is $16 at most bookstores, and Audiblox (http://www.audiblox2000.com) is about $80 for book, video, and starter set of manipulatives. RR tends to help a lot with reading, and it has good assessment tests to pinpoint problem areas. Audiblox is usually very helpful with developing attention skills, focusing, and memory — among other things.

Once your daughter is reading at a 3rd grade level, I would recommend adding in Sequential Spelling (http://www.avko.org).

If you start Reading Reflex and Audiblox, you should see some significant gains within 6 weeks. If you see some gains, but not enough, then you could plan on doing PACE during the summer. Meanwhile, see about getting CAPD and developmental vision evaluations for sure.

You may also want to check out the information at http://www.neuroacoustics.com, especially if your daughter has auditory processing problems.

Mary

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine. I taught her to read using Reading Reflex. She was still identified LD at the end of second grade (not reading). However, I realized later that her basic problem is speech/language and memory. The school didn’t really explain what her scores meant. I learned a lot from this board. Anyway, she did fine in 3rd grade. She was reading grade level by then. In 4th grade I could tell she wasn’t “getting” it and her teacher agreed. So I ordered audiblox right before she started 5th grade. They have a language component that has helped her A LOT!! I was warned that it would take awhile to see results because of her speech/language deficits. We started four days a week for 30 minutes in September of 2000. By January, her principal stopped me and commented on how well my daughter was doing in school. I guess it was the talk of the school!! At the end of 5th grade she was retested. She is no longer identifed LD, but she qualifies for speech/language and she does see a private SLP twice a month. We are still doing Audiblox. Three times a week this year. She has a B+ average and is doing very well in school. I fully intend to keep up with Audiblox through the rest of this school year.

I looked into PACE, but I didn’t like the amount of time they required. I knew it would be a chore to get my daughter to work with me that much. It’s hard to get her to do Audiblox, but she does it. She doesn’t like it, but she realizes it’s the only thing that has helped her (aside from Reading Reflex). So I would vote for Audiblox. The people there are very helpful and will figure out what program your daughter should start with.

Good Luck!!

Did you do the language component of Audiblox every day and for how long each day? What story did you use on tape to do it? I have a student who I think would benefit from it. We are doing the Schoolblox program in my classroom. I have seen gains in attention and concentration with one particular student. I haven’t seen any improvement in his reading and I think it is due to his very poor language skills. I would appreciate any feedback you could give me so I am well-informed about the language component when I talk to the student’s parent. The language activity will have to be done at home.

I agree that the people at Audiblox have been very helpful!

but I wanted to mention that the Audiblox reading activity is oriented to training the eyes to function properly while reading, not to teaching decoding skills. For decoding skills, a program such as Reading Reflex is necessary.

Mary

Thanks for your response. The student has very poor oral language skills. I thought the language component would help him as he does not understand the flow of words in our language.

Audiblox really doesn’t work on development of oral language skills.

What age is the child? If you post more specifics, someone here may be able to suggest approaches likely to help.

In my experience, one of the best ways to develop receptive language skills is to do a lot of reading-out-loud of written literature to a child, with numerous breaks for oral discussion. Another helpful approach is in the book “How To Increase Your Child’s Verbal Intelligence” by McGuiness, which describes many different games and exercises designed to stimulate development of language skills.

Some children need to work with a speech and language therapist to develop oral language skills. Others need to have auditory processing disorders addressed.

Audiblox trains many cognitive skills, but it sounds as if this child needs work on a more fundamental level of development.

Mary

Hi Sheila,

Audiblox does address language problems for children. They have a whole program built around it and if you have been in contact with the people at Audiblox you know about it.

My daughter could not listen to the tape for as long as they recommend every day. So, she would listen to one side (45 minutes) a day 6-7 days a week. She started with the first story and listened to that for 4 months and then onto the next story. She played, watched t.v., ate meals. The child doesn’t have to sit still to listen to the tape. She listened to the first three stories and we’re done! I put the walkman in a fanny pack so she could walk around the house and listen to the tape with her earphones. Be sure that it’s not too loud or too soft. Also, be prepared for a long wait before you notice any improvement. It should come though.

I do agree with MaryMN about the decoding. I think Reading Reflex is your best bet, especially for someone who has a speech/language problem. It is so much easier for them to learn how to blend, segment, etc.

I hope this answers your question. How many students are in your classroom? How do they like doing Audiblox? I’d be interested in reading what you have to say about the classroom version.

Good Luck!

Thanks for your response!

I have a regular classroom of 20 5th graders. We started Schoolblox at the beginning of this school year. I have noticed improvements in concentration and attentiveness in several students. One student made a huge leap in his reading at about week 8. I have this other student, the one I referred to in this thread, who has made gains in attentiveness/concentration, but not in reading. He is the one I question about using the language component on. He currently sees a language specialist 3 days/week 20min/day. Schoolblox does not have the language component, but I read about it in the book, Right to Read. The people at Audiblox recommended I use it with this student.

As far as the class’s reaction to Schoolblox, some laughingly grumble, but they do it daily. I have stressed how important it is. Schoolblox has some of the exercises described in Right to Read, but not all of them. I can see that it would be much easier to have one or just a few students at a time, but I will do what I can in my current position. I do feel that it is challenging even the top students in ways they have never been challenged before. I have noticed improvement in almost all of the students as far as their ability to do the different exercises. In about 5 weeks, I’m going to survey the parents to see any gains made. Next school year, I would like to start the year with some kind of inventory so I could have something concrete to compare later with. It is funny because the Title I teacher commented how one student who sees her is writing better and is tending to business better. I told her about what I was doing, but she stated that it must be due to his dad getting after him. Hmm?!

I actually do not teach the regular Reading class and would not have an opportunity to use it with this student for reading instruction. The family, single parent, lives several miles out of town and after school tutoring is not even a consideration. I have shown and highly recommended Reading Reflex to the Title I teacher and the SpEd teacher, but have not gotten much response. The Title I teacher tried it for awhile last years with a few students, but has now gone back to her previous ways, using Touch Phonics with students struggling in Phonics. I guess I do not come across very convincing.

Did you use a tape of stories that you got from Audiblox, or did you make your own? At what reading level was the story? In what ways did doing this help your daughter? Could you be specific about the types of improvements you noticed?

I have an Audiblox kit that was purchased two or three years ago — before they split out the components. The book was not included in the kit, but in all other respects I thought the kit was complete. There were no audio tapes, and nothing mentioned about them.

If there are stories on the audio tapes, what makes it different from listening to books-on-tape or having stories read out loud? Are the tapes acoustically modified in some way (I am thinking along the lines of TLP)? Is this all of the language program, or is there more?

I’ll have to go visit the website again…..

Mary

Sheila, it sounds like you’re doing a great job with the Schoolblox program. I’m wondering if you asked some of your students what changes they have noticed, you might be surprised. I know my daughter can follow movies and tv shows easier now - not all the time. Also, she can write better and speak better (more correctly). She’s not perfect yet, but I doubt if any of us are. Sheila, where are you located and how did you decide to use Schoolblox? Did you have to persuade anyone in your district? I can’t remember if I read it here on this bb or in the book The Right to Read, but some French psychologist or psychiatrist has stated that the way to treat learning differences is through cognitive exercises. They aren’t going to learn the basics until they have a good foundation to build on.

Now, back to the language component with Audiblox. I read the story and recorded it on tape over and over and over. I read all three stories my daughter listened to and I used the stories in the book. Mary, you need to order the book The Right to Read where the authors describe the difference between our passive and active vocabularies. It makes a lot of sense. My daughter still has a speech/language problem, but she has improved so much with this program. She sees a private SLP and she receives services in her middle school. However, I think having her listen to those tapes was the best thing (next to the sequencing exercises) for her.

I decided on Schoolblox because it was the only cognitive skills program I could find that could be used in a classroom setting (actually Mary MN brought Audiblox up when I was inquiring about a cognitive skills program on this board earlier :) ). It was not hard to get the school to purchase the program. I just stated my beliefs and reasons for wanting this program to the principal, and he was very open minded.
I live in rural ND. I currently teach a regular classroom, but am actually a SpEd major (MR&LD) with an elementary endorsement. In my opinion we are not teaching the kids in our classrooms as many do not have the foundational skills necessary. It just makes sense to me that a good place to start is with the cognitive skills. I just want to do all I can to help to get the most out of everyone.

According to the Audiblox theory teaching reading is like climbing a ladder. The first rung consists of verbal skills (language), the second of nonverbal skills, followed by reading itself.

Children with language problems usually started talking late, still talk immaturely or they lack phonological/phonemic skills. The cause of their language problems - according to the theory - is that they have not been exposed enough to hearing the SAME words, phrases and structures.

We have two more or less separate masses of language: our passive knowledge (receptive), and our active (expressive). Our active knowledge can only be developed VIA the passive. This means that if a child is language delayed, one should focus on improving his passive vocabulary, not on his active vocabulary. This theory is based on the way a baby learns to talk. Apparently a baby must HEAR a word about 500 times before it will become part of his active vocabulary. Long before that it will already form part of his passive vocabulary.

Therefore, in order to improve a child’s expressive language, he must be exposed to a background of language - the SAME language of about 10 minutes, over and over and over, for 2 - 3 months. As the child makes progress, less repetition is needed to learn new language, because one is building a “pyramid of repetition.”

In The Right to Read it is recommended that one makes a tape of the stories in Rainbow Dreams, the reading book. The stories contain the most commonly used words.

Author: Zelda
Date: 12-30-01 18:00 QUOTE

“Children with language problems usually started talking late, still talk immaturely or they lack
phonological/phonemic skills. The cause of their language problems - according to the theory - is
that they have not been exposed enough to hearing the SAME words, phrases and structures.”

I saw this on the Audiblox web site, and I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS THEORY. My daughter was read to all the time, she talked early, has a mature vocabulary and is exposed to words, phrases, etc. frequently. In fact, we go over flash cards every day…day after day after day. I know she has seen some of the words hundreds of times, and she still does not recognize them.
She has no Visual memory for words.
And I know the children in her class have not seen the words as many times as she has, yet it clicks for them. She does have a diagnosed “Phonological Processing Deficit”, but it is not from lack of exposure. She has an excellent passive vocabulary…we talk about all kinds of advanced concepts, and she “gets it”. She has a pretty good active vocabulary, also, but has some problems with pronouncing the multisyllable words…as any 7 year old would.
This is why I was “turned off” Audiblox,(that the problems come from a lack of exposure) even tho I have heard great things about from this bulletin board. Can you explain it to me?
Am I interpreting the theory wrong?
Can Audiblox help her visual memory for words? She also doesn’t have any problems with math…and that requires visual memory! She also comprehends what she reads pretty well, even when she has to struggle.
So what do you guys think?

when she was reading on a preschool level. She is now 11 and in the advanced reading class at school (reads on a beginning 7th grade level). Bear with me while I outline our experience, as I think it will provide some necessary background as to what I consider to be right about Audiblox theory…..

The first thing I did was try “Reading Reflex” at home. This was very successful, in that my dd was able to decode 2nd/3rd grade words within 6 weeks of our starting the program. However, her actual reading of text was excruciating — very jerky, missed punctuation, skipped words, skipped lines, many substitutions and guesses, etc. I was relieved that she could actually learn how to read, but thought there must be something else wrong.

I took her to a developmental optometrist who found severe developmental vision delays — 1st percentile scores for her age in some areas (focusing speed, fine saccades, field-of-vision). She was in vision therapy for 8 months. This brought her developmental vision tests up to age-appropriate levels, but we saw only minor improvements in reading fluency. The clinic did further testing and told me she was completely “dyseidesic” — no visual memory for words. I realized from examining the tests that she also would have tested as completely “dysphonesic” had I not done the basic code portion of “Reading Reflex” with her at home. This made me hopeful that we could correct the dyseidesia.

By now my dd was 9. We left the eye clinic, and I took her to a speech and language pathologist who diagnosed her with “impressive receptive language skills” and “severely disordered phonological awareness”. Dd tested as reading at a 2nd grade level at this time, but 2 STD’s below the norm in rate and accuracy.

As luck would have it, I found a provider 5 minutes from our house and started dd in PACE (Processing and Cognitive Enhancement, http://www.learninginfo.com). PACE is a cognitive training program that was developed independently of Audiblox, but came onto the market at about the same time. At the end of the 5th week of PACE we saw a dramatic improvement in dd’s ability to read. She was reading at a fluent 4th grade level by the end of PACE.

At that point we did a Phono-Graphix intensive (http://www.readamerica.net) to provide her with advanced decoding skills. This brought her reading level up to a fluent 5th grade level (10th grade for word analysis skills). This was 14 months ago.

I don’t necessarily agree with all of the theories presented in Audiblox (for my taste they are a little too didactic). However, I think that their approach is very sound. What I learned from PACE (I ended up becoming certified in PACE and Phono-Graphix, because I liked the programs so much) is that there is a hierarchy of development.

If you view development as a pyramid, genetics form the large foundation of the pyramid. The layer that builds on this is sensory/motor development, which provides the foundation for cognitive skills development, the next layer. The small peak at the top of the pyramid is academics, which build on the cognitive skills layer. A problem on any of the lower levels of development impacts all of the layers above. It’s like a chunk taken out of the pyramid.

In my dd’s case, the developmental vision delays represented a deficit on the sensory/motor level. Once we had corrected that, she still had deficits on the cognitive skills level — things like visual short-term memory, visual sequencing, pattern recognition — because she had missed years of normal acquisition of those skills. That’s why cognitive training was so helpful. Phono-Graphix provided the final academic remediation.

Whew! Anyone who read this far deserves a medal….

Mary

This was something about Audiblox I had completely missed.

Mary

According to the Audiblox theory teaching reading is like climbing a ladder. The first rung consists of verbal skills (language), the second of nonverbal skills, followed by reading itself.

In terms of language development - according to the Audiblox theory - a child will benefit more from hearing one story 500 times, than what he/she will benefit from hearing 10,000 stories once or twice only. A language delay is therefore not necessarily caused by a lack of exposure as such, but by a lack of exposure to the SAME words, etc.

I am not an expert, but your daughter does not seem to have a language problem. (Perhaps you should ask the opinion of the people at Audiblox. They really are very helpful.). Her problems seem to be at the second rung, which consists of nonverbal skills, of which visual memory is one. There is a diagram on the Audiblox web site that explains the nonverbal skills that play a role in reading.

There are different skills that play a role in reading and in math, of which some may overlap. My opinion: A good visual memory for sequencing, for example, is more important for reading that for math.

Mary (and all)
thanks. you also e-mailed me privately from another post on here. We had comprehensive visual testing that included all that it should have ( I hope!)
and she has no visual problems. We are slowly getting up to speed on the phonological aspect of it with Reading Reflex, but she has a difficult time applying it to her reading. So halting, has to sound out everything, guesses and inserts context appropriate words. She just works so hard at it!!
We are not in an area where there are any providers for any programs, and we cannot afford Pace. So in everyone’s humble opinion, is Audiblox comparable in content and results? What about comparisons between
Audiblox and Seeing Stars for visual/symbol imagery? and spelling. What does one have that the other doesn’t?
We are still awaiting Neuropsychologist test results… How will I know exactly what she needs? As I said we are without tutors, programs, etc. and I am more than able to provide her with what she needs at home, as long as I am sure she is getting the right things for her particual problems.
Thanks everyone for any info!!!!
Melissa’s Mom…………Connie

What you are describing sounds more like an auditory processing problem than a visual one, or possibly a neurological problem. The neuro-psych eval should tell you a lot. If she hasn’t had a CAPD evaluation as part of the neuro-psych, though, I’d try to get that also.

Audiblox is definitely comparable to PACE. The exercises themselves are different, and PACE incorporates a metronome into many of its exercises (helps establish rhythm and timing, and helps develop speed in an incremental manner), but they are both basically well-designed programs providing a wide variety of exercises that work on developing multiple cognitive skills. Neither program will correct neurological or sensory/motor level problems. However, both programs will optimize development of cognitive skills. Both allow for customization of exercises to suit an individual child’s needs.

Seeing Stars is basically a reading program, so it would make more sense to compare it to Reading Reflex rather than Audiblox.

Spelling should wait until after reading skills are in place at about a 3rd grade level.

In your situation I would probably wait for the neuro-psych results and, if a CAPD evaluation was not included, arrange for that with a qualified audiologist. Depending on what specific therapies and interventions are recommended by the professionals, I would consider doing Audiblox and perhaps Balametrics at home.

One thing that puzzles me is the problem with visual memory in the absence of developmental vision delays. This typically means that cognitive skills are lagging, and cognitive training should help. However, the difficulty with applying decoding skills to reading indicates problems on other levels. Difficulty blending would point to a CAPD problem, while difficulty with phoneme manipulation can indicate a possible neurological problem. Makes it very difficult to make meaningful recommendations from a distance…..

Mary

Thanks for your input. I hope the neuropsych eval will guide me better.
She is a fantastic gymnast and very athletic, coordinated, etc. Her IQ is 111 and she is talented in many areas. So I
One thing we must remember is that the brain plays the main role in visual memory, not the eyes. We believe that the pathway that is usually used, going from one part of the brain to others isn’t working as well for her. Somewhere in the brain, after she sees it, it doesn’t go into storage and/ or she can’t retrieve it. I guess this could be neurological, but nothing that can be seen, or nothing we can do anything about, except the multisensory programs that go around that glitch; teach in other ways. This is what the neuropsych and I talked about .
When I looked at her scores with Reading Reflex ( and of course I don’t have them with me at the time!!) the auditory part of it was 70. The first 2 parts were close to 100, and other parts below that were in the mid 80s. Sorry I can’t remember!!! Actually, she is doing better now, since we work frequently in the car, working on other things, etc. on blending, deletion, etc.
Deletion was her worst, and it actaully is taking very little time to alert her to the blends that she is not taking apart, etc. But other things i have read about CAPD do not apply to her. This is a quote from you on another post…
” Common symptoms of CAPD include difficulty participating in group discussions, behavior problems, socialization problems, difficulty following multi-step verbal instructions, and sometimes problems with balance, rhythm (trouble clapping to music), and timing.” and Melissa has none of these.
Another post about it states…….”, but the hallmark seems to be difficulty discriminating/processing language sounds-especially in the presence of background noise. It’s symptoms frequently mimic those of fluctuating hearing loss and Attention Deficit Disorder- which is actually the context where I first heard of it- because it will usually some involve difficulty maintaining attention.”
and this isn’t her either, except for the part about difficulty discriminating/processing. The the way, she has an uncle that is exactly like her. And others in the family who don’t read very well.
I will post her neuropsyc eval (pertinent parts of it) when I get it. If your guys are like me, it is interesting to try to figure this stuff out. Of course it would be better if it weren’t my own daughter!!!
And I hope posting about her and our problems and getting everyone to brainstorm will also help other people.
Thanks…..Melissa’s Mom…….Connie

We have done both programs. I chose to do Audiblox about a year and half ago. We were ‘on program’ with the NACD, I was burnt out and looking for a change in intensity. Audiblox has some similarities with our NACD Program and I learned that the Audiblox developers referenced alot of research from Glenn Doman, who is the uncle to Bob Doman (founder of NACD).

We did Audiblox for only 6mo. We did see gains in the beginning, but I gave up when I started seeing my dd’s reading digress - her blending,segmenting skills seemed to be getting worse(her LAC test went down 1.5yrs!). The program is designed such that reading skills need a strong visual playing field. I believe the program is best for the child who has difficulties on a visual basis.

My dd’s weaknesses are auditory in nature. There was only one exercise that worked on auditory memory/sequential memory. The others were all visual based -we flew thru these very fast. My dd is also visual-spatial learning kid. She sees things as a whole. The reading exercises I felt were encouraging her whole word guessing habits to develop vs. the phonological skills that she needed help with.

We started PACE/MTC this October and are 3/4 thru the program. MTC has been the most beneficial for us - I am seeing good reading gains. The auditory processing exercises are very good for my dd and the reading program is truely a reading program.

Audiblox works your visual memory and visual sequential memory alot. Has a good math portion too. My dd was on the highest levels on the visual sequential exercises - so I know she was ‘visualizing’ good. What I am discovering with PACE is that she can visualize/image very good if given the picture - what she has a hard time is visualizing something on her own(particularly auditorily). PACE really addresses this and integrates it into other academics.

Connie,

Let me assure you that my child does NOT have the above symptoms but she HAS been diagnosed APD (no speech-in-noise problems whatsoever)! No child has all the “typical” symptoms. And I am sitting here wondering if what you are attributing to poor visual memory might actually be poor auditory memory. My child knows individual letter sounds, but blending multiple sounds into words can be a problem for her because she can’t remember them all in sequence. I agree with MaryMN that you need to get an APD specialist to test your child especially since the visual testing turned out to be normal.

Janis