Trying to make sense of this...

Part of what you paid for with this testing is a discussion about what it means and how to use it in the school setting. This type of information should be given both verbally so you can ask questions and put in writing so you can give it to the school. If you didn’t get the interpretation part, go back to the tester and ask for it. Best wishes.

Mary,

Thanks for responding. I did have a verbal discussion with the tester. I was told that my son has disabilities that are non verbal and language based. He has a reading disorder, visual processing disorder due to basic perception problems, and a communication disorder. In addition to that he was also found to have adhd symptoms. I have a problem with the non verbal portion because he excels in sports and has excellent social skills. My older son tested in a similar manner on the WISC performance side before we treated him for adhd and after he was treated we tested him again. His blocked design, object assembly and other scores then went up to the superior to very superior level. In other words, he did not have a nonverbal learning disability, he is dyslexic. I had mentioned this to the tester that maybe this is a possibilty with my younger son who’s scores you see and she said she didn’t know. Anyway, I believed that three criteria needed to be met for a non verbal learning diagnosis ( especially the social skills)? I also can’t believe he has so many issues, can you be dyslexic and nonverbal at the same time? Sorry, to keep going on and on.
Thanks for your help.

Terry

The nonverbal doesn’t make sense to me either, especially with his good math reasoning abilities.

I would take him to a good developmental optometrist. Much of the visual perception problem could be correctable with vision therapy followed by cognitive training.

Mary

Mary,

that they also don’t agree with the non verbal. His reading specialist at school has thought that he was a “Classic” dyslexic with auditory processing disorders, written and oral expressive disorder due to word retrival problems. In the past, a speech and language examiner noted on a test of word finding that he scored in the 10th percentile. When he was tested with the nueropysch this time she showed me an example of his “visual perception” problems in a test (I don’t remember the name) but it was a picture of and candle on a holder and he said it was a *light*. She said, “You don’t know what he sees and he just doesn’t get it”! I see that as a word finding problem but, who am I to say?
I will look into the vision therapy because when he doesn’t use his finger he omits, inserts, and tranposes words and also skips lines. I feel like because he scored on the WISC like a kid with a nonverbal learning disorder she interpeted any other results on different tests to *fit* that profile without considering all of the possibilties. Thanks for listening.

Terry

Terry, Just curious, What on the performance side of the Wisc III
tells you someone might be dyslexic?
thanks

Kelly,

some profiles such as high visual spatial scores or preformance scores higher than the verbal scores on the WISC have been associated with dyslexia. If you also score low on tests of phonemic awareness, phonological processing,rapid naming and reading then there are better indicaters. I did not mean to imply that my older son is dyslexic because his performance scores were very high. I was trying to point out that after he was treated for adhd his diagnosis changed. He had a full private nueropyshcological assessment after treatment. I just think sometimes testers are too quick to make a diagnosis and they don’t always consider the bigger picture. I understand also that there is not one test that can point to dyslexia because the symptoms can be very different for people. Hope this explains a little of what I meant.

Terry

Gotcha…..Thanks I was just curious.

Hi Terry,

I just wanted to comment on the vision therapy. We did it for about 18 months. It was very expensive (most insurance companies will not cover it because it is a developmental problem, not medical) it required daily exercises and weekly appointments (which if you are having any difficulty getting homework done now forget the 45 min./daily of vision therapy added to that) and after 18 months there was little if any improvement. I have gotten several opinions (both professional and parents of experience) and the consensus has been that it is at best a waste of time and money. I would just urge you the research it thoroughly before diving in. Good Luck.

Author: lisa
Date: 01-18-02 15:56

Hi Terry,

I just wanted to comment on the vision therapy. We did it for about 18 months. It was very expensive (most insurance companies
will not cover it because it is a developmental problem, not medical) it required daily exercises and weekly appointments (which if
you are having any difficulty getting homework done now forget the 45 min./daily of vision therapy added to that) and after 18
months there was little if any improvement. I have gotten several opinions (both professional and parents of experience) and the
consensus has been that it is at best a waste of time and money. I would just urge you the research it thoroughly before diving in.
Good Luck.

Lisa,

Are you the Lisa that has the son dx PDDNOS at age 4? I’d love to hear about this. Would you mind sharing how the dx came about? Not trying to intrude but really interested.

Terry

“No full scale reported because of language and visual-perception problems impede his performance.”

I would want to know about that, because *if* those scores are valid they do speak of nonverbal processing problems. The high information score says he’s picked up his fair share of facts; the high arithmetic score says he can process what he hears quickly and do simple arithmetic in longer and longer chunks well. LIkewise, the digit span is a “spit back the oral information” kind of subtest. But those consistently low performance scores are the subtests that test a lot of the nonverbal thinking.
Many of those performance subtests require using mental skills to figure out visual patterns & problems — if he’s got the problem solving skills but is seeing thigns wrong, then the test isn’t measuring his thinking, it’s measuring his vision. I would want to know what the tester observed to inspire the statement that language and v-p problems impeded the performance.
I would definitely explore those visual problems — it seems whenever there’s “visual” … the score is low. Yes, there are also the signs of “classic dyslexia” in the low vocab. and similarities scores; fortunately he does seem to have good auditory processing, which is a big help, and a very good memory, and excellent mathematical reasoning. I would definitely keep this kiddo thinking logically and talking through problem solving and using lots and lots of oral language that’s challegning but not over his head.

Sue,

I know what the performance side measures but according to private school admittance tests, Brigance Diagnostic(?) his scored highly visual with low auditory processing. Inconsistent with the present testing and inconsistent with daily preformance. I believe this is why the school disagreed with the nonverbal learning disorder? I will check into this further and thanks for responding.

Terry

Sue,

My older son also had the same consistant scores in preformance that his younger brother is displaying before he was treated for adhd. Two years later we had him tested again and the preformance scores scattered up to the superior and very superior range. We started this testing with my younger son for a reading and adhd assessment. So, since he is displaying the same areas of difficulty as my older son who now has only language and reading disabilties, I was wondering if this could be the same. He does not present with nonverbal learning disorder problems in daily life. I have a close friend who has a child with NLVD and he presents in a totally different way. I know you can’t answer, time will tell. I just need to vent!

Terry

I think your gut instincts are right — especially since the tester basically said that test wasn’t a measure of his ability. It would be good to know just what specific things the tester observed that made her realize it.

Terry that was not my post but if you would like to chat about it you can feel free to e-mail me. I think you just need to click on my name with this post. My sons journey has been a long one just like most the other parents here. His first dx was Static Encephalopathy—basically a throw away dx. When I researched this first dx I was angry they could even suggest it. The only info I could find said that these kids parents drank, smoked, did drugs or had HIV and that is what was wrong with their kid. I have never done any of that and cant even stand the smell of cigarette smoke. They painted a VERY bleak future for him. I would love to have them see him now. HE is in 3rd grade and does have some skills within normal range and he does attempt to socialize. He is just very odd kind of reminds me of the nutty professor!

We did 8 months of vision therapy, which brought my daughter’s visual efficiency skills (things like focusing speed, tracking, binocularity, field-of-vision, etc.) up to age-appropriate levels. We did not see a lot of improvement, however, until we followed up vision therapy with cognitive training in order to develop visual processing skills (things like visual short-term memory, visual sequencing, pattern recognition).

Visual processing skills build on visual efficiency skills, and we had to do vision therapy in order to create a developmental foundation. However, vision therapy is not efficient at developing visual processing skills. Because our daughter had suffered many years of deprivation in terms of her visual efficiency skills, she needed specific training in order to develop the visual processing skills that most of us take for granted.

We did PACE (Processing and Cognitive Enhancement, http://www.learninginfo.com), which is very expensive. However, there’s an inexpensive home-based cognitive training program available (Audiblox, http://www.audiblox2000.com) that has a very good visual component to its exercises.

Gains from cognitive training are limited by any existing visual efficiency problems, which is why a developmental vision evaluation is a good idea before starting a cognitive training program. Since you have already done VT and, presumably, your child’s visual efficiency skills are in place, you may want to try cognitive training as a follow-up.

We saw minimal gains in reading fluency after the 8 months of vision therapy. However, in the 6th week of PACE, our daughter suddenly made dramatic gains in reading fluency. Her visual processing skills had finally reached a level where she could process text fast enough to apply her decoding knowledge.

Mary

I am not a professional, but I do know that the WISC is only one facet of diagnosing NLD. My own child has a significant split (greater than 20 points) between verbal and performance IQ, with his verbal IQ being higher, but his diagnosis is not NLD, but rather a language-based LD and inattentive ADHD. Like your son, he has very high math reasoning abilities. He made a perfect score on the Woodcock Johnson concept formation subtest (and other subtests in that battery) and his greatest gift is fluid reasoning, all of which is inconsistent with a diagnosis of NLD. He also has excellent social skills and tests high on spatial ability as well. His motor skills are poor, however. He generally reads by whole word recognition and is thought to be mildly dyslexic, but still reads and comprehends above grade level. According to the the doctor we saw, IQ splits may be seen more often in high-IQ children and a kid with processing speed issues and motor issues may score lower on the performance side without it necessarily being an indicator for NLD, absent other signs supporting the diagnosis.

Andrea

I was just wondering what your son was in VT for?? My son went for 6 months which the Developmental Optometrist said was the longest he had ever had a child for. His improvement was incredible. He is still on a home-computer based therapy program. I am sure there are those docs who put children on uneccesary therapies but not all of them are like that and many children can be helped by this.

Mary,
We were scheduled for a visual preception test for my son this week. When we got there the assistant gave the test and my son couldnt sit through it. See said this testing was for older patients who have had a trauma or stroke? She then put a book in my sons hands and a pair of glasses and asked him a series of questions. She said he passed with flying colors. I am very confused? She didnt even charge us for the visit. Did she give the correct test. I cant seem to get any help anywhere. Thanks for any help.

Good websites with information are http://www.children-special-needs.org and http://www.vision3d.com. There are others too.

What I advise most people is to go to http://www.covd.org and look up all of the developmental optometrists in your geographic area. Assuming you find more than one listed, call or email all of them with a description of your child’s problem. Their responses will tell you something about the quality of their practice.

Also, if finances are a big consideration, or if you have to drive hours to get to a good developmental optometrist, be sure to mention this in your email or phone call. Ask if this doctor is willing to design and supervise a primarily home-based program of vision therapy. Most good ones will. Not all vision therapy can be done at home, but usually a large portion of it can. You bring the child in for evaluation periodically and the personnel train you in the next set of exercises to be done at home.

There are really good developmental optometrists out there, and mediocre ones. Try to start out with a good one. In our case, I was so sceptical about the whole process I couldn’t work up the nerve to go until I found a non-profit clinic that provided services to a public charter school for challenged children. I figured this optometrist wasn’t in it for the money! During and after the evaluation she spent time demonstrating to me some of the problems my daughter had with vision — for example, how slow her focusing speed was compared to normal, and how the muscles of her eyes quit working from fatigue. I then felt comfortable taking her to this clinic for vision therapy. (I didn’t feel up to providing it at home, but I know several other mothers who have done it this way.)

Mary

about 20 different tests of visual functioning which are presented either as age-normed scores or percentile rankings (compared to others of the same age). We got a 3-page written report of all the findings. I can pull this out if you need it, and explain the different tests and categories of tests.

Mary

Beverley,

No, my son has not had any VT training as of yet. I have looked into it and it was also mentioned to me by the nueropyshc that tested him because he doesn’t automatically read from right oto left. She also thought he may have tracking problems. I have to make an appointment.

Terry

Andrea,

Funny you should mention that these splits are associated many times with high IQ kids, which he is. He is also the kind of kid that wants to know why he is doing this kind of testing and I was told by his doctor that if the relevance of it is not explained they tend not to do well. I was also told that when there is a motor speed problem their preformance scores drop. Thanks for your input.

Terry

Sue,

His daily life doesn’t fit the picture of NLVD and the full scale IQ component according to her. She claims that you don’t over-acheive, that there are times when testers can’t test the true potential and the test don’t fit the kid. I guess when he was speaking to her he told her some witty stories that impressed her but she couldn’t measure that with the present testing available. Based on the mathematical reasoning and probably that the rest of the family is adhd and dyslexic(father, two brothers and myself) I’m sure she using that as part of the basis. His two other brothers are also high IQ, one 128 and the other 145IQ.
Thanks for your response.

Terry

Lisa,

Click on your name to e-mail you. Please, if you don’t mind I’d love to hear your story, and for you to hear mine. If you can post your e-mail in some way, I’d love to chat with you.

Terry

YOu can e-mail me at [email protected]

no sorry i’m not.