Need Help! Long. Socks, pattim, and everyone else - testing

Okay my ideas.

1. Okay IQ scores would be disclosed anyway,correct? So okay she has an IQ of 60,for the purposes of whether she needs OT or not it doesn’t matter.
The placement decision can not be made exclusively on this OT evaluation,or her IQ score.
Besides,you can request a second OT evaluation,trust me,I’ve done it:-)
I would make it clear what your expectations are on why you are requesting the evaluation. You want an evaluation on what type of therapy is needed,you are not concerned about what the school can provide,heck even tell them you are possibly pursuing private payment for OT. What you need is a clear understanding of motor issues,and what reccomendations they have for therapy.

2. Okay they are reccomending this placement. Ask for a visit,go view the placement. If this child is not appropriate for this placement,you need a reason. “I have gone to this classroom,I noticed that most of the children are far more impaired then she is,therefore I do not agree with this placement,what are our options”? They must provide options.
§300.550 General LRE requirements.

(a) Except as provided in §300.311(b) and (c), a State shall demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Secretary that the State has in effect policies and procedures to ensure that it meets the requirements of §§300.550-300.556.

(b) Each public agency shall ensure—

(1) That to the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are nondisabled; and

(2) That special classes, separate schooling or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only if the nature or severity of the disability is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily.

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1412(a)(5))

Don’t worry about the eval yet.But do go and see this placement.

Sock, thanks for the insights.

Two questions:
Isn’t it illegal to disclosed your child’s educational records without approval? To the independent evaluator who is supposedly giving an independent eval? The OT kind of alluded to that she can’t do this or that because of her IQ. My sister felt that the SLP definitely had the low IQ number in mind in her comments.
How might this affect the CAPD evaluator?

Secondly, the placement has been seen. Autistics, parapalegics and downs plus 3 others, total 8. Loud and I think Joy would be the only one without an aide. Even with an aide, it is totally a NO.

Okay. Yes,it is illegal to disclose information without the consent of the parent.If the evaluator feels the evaluation can not be done,then find a new evaluator. Prior to finding yet another evaluator,make it very clear that no consent has been given to disclose any information.

This is where I see you all right now. The damage has been done. Yes,you absolutlely can file a complaint.In the mean time the kid needs this eval. If there is a preconcieved notion that this child has a low IQ and therefore can not be evaluated then ya’ll have the wrong OT anyway. Their are plenty of mentally retarded people out there who are quite phyisically able,and do not have the need for OT.IQ shouldn’t be a factor. You will probably need an IEE to dispell the low IQ issue.

You could cancel this eval,find another evaluator,and still have someone talking to someone,and never even know it.

Good I am glad you all viewed the placement.I would consider writing a letter regarding your observations and the reasons you feel it not an appropriate placement,and request what other options are present at this point.

It is not unusual for professionals working on a case to discuss test results. It is absolutely necessary for other professionals to have access to the test scores in order to make conclusions about their own results. For example, if a child has an IQ of say 85 and their speech/language testing is all at a standard score of 85 or above, their language is considered up to their ability level. They would have to have a 70 (or even lower in some states) to have a discrepancy that would justify speech services in that case. The SLP absolutely has to have the IQ scores. In the case of an OT, which I know less about, I would assume they would also have to have a measure of cognitive functioning. A child with a 60 IQ probably will not have the motor skills of an average IQ child.

Now, there is a discrepancy between the regular IQ test and the non-verbal IQ test. This is interesting and could indicate that there is a combination of things going on. But I will tell you that children with CAPD and hearing loss generally score in the normal range on the WISC performance and on non-verbal IQ testing (assuming their intelligence is really in the average range). You do often see a depressed verbal score with HI children, and sometimes with CAPD, however, my child has some very low language scores and a very average verbal IQ. So basically, yes, there could be some auditory processing issues in addition to the cognitive delay, but the cognitive delay would probably make the norms for CAPD testing totally meaningless. They wanted to see an average IQ on my child before testing her for APD. Children with cognitive delays are going to be slow processors, so you probably couldn’t get APD testing that would be valid.

The reality is that a child functioning at that level, regardless of the combination of underlying disabilities, will likely not be able to manage in the regular curriculum and if it were me, I’d certainly expect a self-contained placement. However, there are rarely a neat little group of children all having similar deficits to group together, and that is why you see a variety of conditions in that one classroom. I’d be looking more at whether the teacher is committed and caring and does she have assistance to work with the children, not whether every child has an aide. I personally would be looking at something like an EMD placement first (not knowing this child, of course).

Janis

CAPD evaluations done at this age are not always accurate. SOme auduilogists won’t do them until age 8, most unti age 6 or 7 if in 1st grade.You don’t want to go to that private place if there is a tie in, it won’t give you new information and too much testing for no reason isn’t great. You want an OT and SLP who are familiar with sensory integration, often that can cause a lot of the severity issue you are talking about. CAPD often goes along with it. An IQ is known to be lowered when language issues are involved. It is in some ways taken into account but in reality it can’t be entirely, tests have language. Ear infectiosn are a arge contributor to speech and language and even OT and learning problems. Be aware many school districts simply will not recognize CAPD. No years of therapy are ever a waste, follow through just helps progress occur more substantially.

I can understand about your being worried about your niece being placed in a self contained classroom. If you think anything like I use to you think ok these are the kids they have given up on. When a self contained classroom was recommended for my son I felt like a failure. What do you mean I thought he has “functioned” in a regular classroom just nicely since Kindergarten now he is in third grade and you don’t want to deal with him anymore?? Well let me tell you what happened. I allowed my son to be moved to the classroom because it was what everyone thought was best I knew my son was unhappy in the regular ed room so I should try this. My son has thrived in the LD classroom. I have seen significant improvement in his social and language skills. I did not think this would be possible if all those “hard to reach” students were in his class as his role models. IN this class they do social skills work twice a week with a “regular” group of 4th graders who are their role models. They receive small group language instruction. Small group instruction in all subjects. Speech for those who need it. My son gets 1 to 1 instruction in reading because he is so behind the others even in his LD class. He receives 45 minutes of reading instruction a day. His instruction is going on at the same time as the rest of the class so he does not miss anything. I no longer feel that self contained classes are “dead-ends”. I have seen what they can do.

You disagree with the IQ, did they do an adaptive behavior scale? We always use this in addition to an IQ test when finding a child to be MR. In the case of a black child, this is the only valid measure we can use of IQ to find MR. If they did this and if this is in the same range, then the liklihood of the IQ being a reasonable estimate is increased. If they did not, perhaps you can request one.

Cheryl, I have been on this soapbox for a while, I admit. I want to know, what is a verbal IQ if it is not a measure of an aspect of intellectual functioning? I teach LD. I have taught several children who have borderline to MR range verbal IQs. I have taught them for years at a time. I have never seen their verbal IQ scores rise, I have continued to see difficulties with understanding and producing language, this effects all content areas, reading and writing. I do believe that a language disability (when we rule out hearing loss or something else that is mechanical) is a mainifestation of a lower verbal IQ. I have never seen that the higher nonverbal IQ jumps in and takes over, mitigating the many issues associated with low verbal intelligence.

Please feel free to comment as you wish.

Yes, that is absolutely true here as well. A child cannot be placed EMD if the adaptive behavior scale does not correspond with the IQ score. The sad thing about that is that sometimes results in no services at all.

Janis

while professionals discussing a child is a prudent thing to do,it is illegal without the parents consent. This is an independent evaluation. It can only be reimbursable by the school district if the parent is in disagreement with their findings. Hence the concern that bias is now in place.

Now in the public school,professionals discuss children and their scores,this is after the parent has given their consent for the testing itself.

Now being a nurse who has worked with very cognitively delayed children for the past 15 years,it does not matter whether a child has a very low IQ or not. If the need for OT exists, it exists. I can not agree that because a child has a low IQ that they are in need of OT,know way too many who have better motor skills then I do.

IQ just shows what the child doesn’t know. My HI daughter in 2nd grade had a low VIQ of (70 in the MR range) but her PIQ was 112. In our daughters case her HI caused the low VIQ. With intensive Speech therapy, a hearing aid and FM system she is now scoring in the average to high average range on IQ tests.

If your niece hasn’t been able to develop language skills because of fluctuating hearing from ear infections this would definitely lower her VIQ. How has she been doing with the FM device that they provided? Is she responding well to it? I can’t remember if she exhibits sensory integration difficulties and if so, has it been looked into? The CAPD testing may be premature due to her age. Can she attend to sounds being presented and listen long enough to give an effective response? Would she understand the directions if they are given? I know my daughter has a devil of a time sitting still for any audiologist when she has her ears tested. She hated the CAPD battery as it was very difficult and she was very impulsive in her responses as well. She was 10 when she had a battery for CAPD.

I think your best bet is to go to private evaluators all across the board. It is worth the expense to get to the bottom of her issues. Granted she may have low cognition abilities but that doesn’t mean she can’t be taught skills to help her expand what she does have. It is sad that the district has breeched your sisters confidence and tainted the other evaluators. I feel an unbiased examiner who knows what they are doing may find a way to unlock the puzzle and what can be done to help your niece learn and grow. I think an advocate is a good idea too and do what you can privately to help her without waiting for the district to move. Time is precious especially when a child is young, early intervention can be of great benefit.

This well rounded group of people is so appreciated. We have gained much from every comment. Thanks again.

Thanks.

I’m sorry! EMD is educably mentally disabled and is a category for the IQ range (in my state) of 50-69 with corresponding adaptive behavior scores. HI is hearing impaired. I will add that frequent ear infections in the early years is a contributor to APD, so her verbal scores certainly could be partially depressed due to APD but you couldn’t say that was the only thing unless she also has a significant hearing loss. I don’t recall if you gave her WISC subtest scores, but if there are high (average) subtest scores along with some very low subtest areas, that would confirm that the composite scores can’t be meaningful, by the way. If they are low across the board, then that would more likely indicate low cognitive functioning (possibly along with other complicating factors.)

Janis

There is debate out thera actually about IQ and language skills, a chicken or egg thing. I have seen verbal IQs rise over time but not always. It has a lot to do with the age they were first taken. There is a lot of difference often if kids are tested young, again not always. LD is a difference beween IQ and achievement testing. MR is typically an IQ or 70 or below.