Does this sound right?

Lisa,

I have totally mainstreamed my daughter in 7th grade. She isn’t in any LD classes becuase I would rather have her getting a C in a regular ed class than an A in an LD class or getting a “modified grade” in a regular class. The school would show on the transcripts that they sent to a college the type of classes he was attending and they would know right off the bat that he wasn’t in regular ed curriculum. So far my daughter has been pulling A’s, B’s and one C. She struggles but she is lovign it and she felt that she wasn’t being pushed enough in the LD english class and asked to be bumped up to the regular ed english class. Yes it is hard and we are doing lots of reading and homework everynight but at least we are closing in on the vortex that happened because she was so far behind her peers and their education.

I have also had other special education teachers tell me that they would rather have an LD child in a regular ed math class getting a D than a LD math class getting A’s. They have a better chance of catching up as long as they have the scaffolding at home and through tutoring to be successful.

On a side note…I agree with the reading practice…my daughter has been reading consistently every night with me. She is devouring the Lemony Snicket books and increasing her vocabulary. It is essential that your son do the same thing, most kids improve their reading through practice and it is how they will pick up new knowledge and vocabulary through reading and doing lots of it. Perhaps you can turn him onto unabridged books on tape to pique his reading interest..Also try to find books that adolescents can relate to…

If you’re looking for a scholarship it’s best to keep him in Reg. Ed. They won’t even look at the LD class grades. However if you want to get him into college and can afford to pay for it yourself go the LD route as IDEA has provided your son the opportunity to get in.

Special ed. classes are not the way to college; what about a 504 plan so when it’s time for the SAT’s he can get extended time? Good luck, sounds like you’ve done a great job.

I’m just curious as to where this information is that LD classes will not get you into college. Since when, and are parents aware of this, because I certainly am not and fully intend on my LD son attending college. This sounds like trying to hide the disability. Colleges cannot refuse you if you are, that is called discrimination. You can receive assistance, accomodations and modifications in college ONLY IF you identify yourself as disabled. Are you sure, then, that your child will be able to survive college without accomodations if you try to hide their disabilities. Either I am misunderstanding you or you may not have the correct information. If children need LD classes to learn they will not be penalized for it. LD is nothing to be ashamed of or try to conceal.

I have looked up the qualifications for obtaining student services in college, a student has to have documentation not more than 3 years old. Whether or not special education services are given in hs, if accommodations are given in hs and needed in college, then documentation of the ld’s and the accommodations and services needed for that ld must be there. Lots of folks on the ld adults bb have advanced degrees even having been in special education during public school time. This pretty much disagrees with the assertion that sp.ed isn’t the way to go to college.

I was told at my 8th grade son’s IEP that it is HARDER for students to get into college that have all LD based classes. They said it is best for the student to squeak by with a C or D then get an A in an LD class. They said the LD class does not prepare the student for the reality of college. I have not tried to hide anything from anyone-I know that my son has real issues that interferes with “keeping up with the Jones of school”. He has poor organization skills, listening skills, spelling skills, and is behind in reading. The IEP team was VERY small, just his current case manager, the “accepting” case manager, myself, and 1 regular education teacher. The regular ed teacher stated that my son was able to keep up with the class and did not use any of his accomodations (because he did not ask for them). Then 2 days later she sends me an e-mail saying he is missing 4 assignments and is doing very poorly on the quizes related to the play they are currently reading. The play is being read as a class and a copy is not availabel for the student to review or read on their own. My son has a central auditory processing disorder and he says the reason he is doing poorly on the quizes is it is hard to keep up with what is being said. Now they want him to go on to highw without the benefit of accomodations. I think with the appropriatte accomodations he can do well—but getting none will not help him at all.

If schools only give certificate of completion not a diploma can a kid go to college?

Ask at your public high school how many graduating seniors go on to college, and where they are going; it’s in our local paper evey spring. Do your own research in your own town, ask your friends(maybe in parent support groups) and neighbors who may have a teen with special needs and what their future plans are. In my state, Mass., ALL students have to pass a high-stakes MCAS exam to get a high school diploma. You could also find out from your high school guidance office about the SATs, how many students get accomodations, etc.and what the average scores are for your high school. Again, ask at your local high school guidance office about how special ed. courses are designated on hs transcripts. I know students who did not want their SAT scores flagged with the notation of accomodations. Or go to one of the many college-information nights at your local high school, they’re open to all parents, and ask the recruiters yourself.

I think that if I had to choose between my kid being demoralized by trying really hard and just “squeeking by” with a D, or working in an LD class with methods that help him really learn the material, I’d choose the latter. There are always open enrollment community colleges that kids can get their feet wet with, and then transfer to a bigger college if they prove they can handle it.

Of course, if the LD classes are basically “warehousing” the kids, and handing out high grade just to make them (and their parents) happy, that’s something else again. I want my child LEARNING in whatever environment he’s in.

Karen

Colleges DO have selective admissions and can choose whomever meets their criteria; there are open-admission community colleges, that admit students with diploma or GED. In our high school, courses are weighted, with AP and honors courses worth the most then regular college prep, and general ed. courses. I don’t know what special ed. classes are worth towards the Grade Point Average. Most selective colleges require three years of math, science, including lab science and two years of a foreign language. Ask at your local high school for details.

Why isn’t he being taught to read? Would certainly help his CAPD condition, let alone his chances for a college education. College, unlike high school, is auditory based. Remediate his deficiencies now, don’t just accommodate. Accomodations really won’t help him much in college. We have the programs, use them to remediate. Might I suggest Phono-Graphixs for his reading remediations. Email me privately if you need to know more. I have a LD child in college without accommodations. Her reading level used to be, at 19, at fourth grade. Now she reads her college books. Oh, I forgot to say, she dropped out of high school when she was a junior. She went to college on a GED and is on Deans List at Kent State University in Ohio.

A certification of completion will not get a student into a four year college and maybe not a community college either. Ask around and see about what your community colleges accept. The problem with many self-contained classes is that they aren’t able to really teach the students enough unless they are based on remediation. My daughter was in mainstreamed classes with a resourse room in which her teacher gave them flash cards with the test answers on them. There is another thread on this board where a special education teacher has confessed that she gives the answers to essay questions because her students can’t answer them. My question is why can’t they? If thereisn’t remediation going on in the classroom, your sons or daughters will have an impossible time in any college. You need someone to teach them basic skills before they go to any school, whether it is a community college or tech school. I teach eleventh grade and my goal for my kids are to get them into teamed classes next year. I TEACH them how to read, write, and comprehend. Most of my kids will either go into teamed classes or just into regular ed 12 grade English. You have to understand, according to research, 95% of the kids are LD only because due to whole language, we haven’t taught them basic skills. The outlook of LD kids succeeding in college continues to be poor due to our philosophy of accommodations not remediation. We still don’t believe that we can’t remediate kids particularly older kids. I like to remediate older kids because it doesn’t take very long. If you want to know the programs that I work with, email me privately.

Shay the school gives the impression that 2.5 years behind in reading is not significant—I as a parent know better. I recently purchased Reading Reflux, just ordered the parent supplement and also have audioblox. I have not had a chance to implement these programs at home though because after we are done with homework there just does not seem to be enough time. I plan on using these programs over the summer with both my boys. Both boys will also be attending summer school. The oldest voluntarily on his own is taking PE and Health. He did this so he did not have to drop band so he could take resource. To me that proves he is motiviated to do well. The youngest will be in an out of district placement so there are support services available. Luckily summer school is a shorter day then during the regular school year and we should be able to fit a reading program in. Thanks for your concern. Congratualtions to you and your daugher for overcoming such large odds, it is very encouraging to me thanks for sharing.

He’s having no problems — as long as expectations are low and/or he’s working his butt off. I would absolutely insist on a standardized, individualized reading test even if you have to come over to my house and let me give him a Gray ORal Reading Test. Then you would actually have some idea of whether he’s fine as long as there’s enough context… or whether he’s really just barely making it and will splat on his face with collegiate demands.

If a student needs LD classes he should have them — and if he’s got the potential, they *should* prepare him for college. DO they?

At the LD school where I taught, they sure did. These were definitely “LD” classes — modified and designed to deal with language deficiencies. IN the public schools? Not a snowball’s chance in the Sonoran desert. THe overwhelming majority of the students in LD classes in high school have low to no expectations. A very highly motivated student with, say, a specific reading issue, might be able to buck the system and learn independently — but this would not be your typical kiddo who needs *more* not less structure than most.

Colleges can and do “refuse” you if you don’t have the skills they define as necessary, disability or no disability. Accommodations do *not* enable you to write well enough to get into English 101, or do math well enough to get into Math 106 — I say that having watched many students give it there best. (Fortunately community colleges have “094” and “098” classes to help prepare them. Unfortunately, many of the students have *not* developed independent learning skills or the 6th-8th grade reading/vocabulary skills to succeed in these classes, either; teachers will work with them wherever they are, but then are in the difficult position of having to say “yes, you’ve worked hard but no, you’re *still* not ready for English 101.”)

Not only that, the graduation rate for LD kids who start college is pretty awful.

Fortunately, *if* you are aware of this you can take steps ahead of time to get your kiddo as prepared as possible.

Karen Randall wrote:
>
> I think that if I had to choose between my kid being
> demoralized by trying really hard and just “squeeking by”
> with a D, or working in an LD class with methods that help
> him really learn the material, I’d choose the latter. There
> are always open enrollment community colleges that kids can
> get their feet wet with, and then transfer to a bigger
> college if they prove they can handle it.
>
> Of course, if the LD classes are basically “warehousing” the
> kids, and handing out high grade just to make them (and their
> parents) happy, that’s something else again. I want my child
> LEARNING in whatever environment he’s in.
>
> Karen

Visit those classes. Even if they aren’t warehousing the kiddos, most of hte students are not preparing for college; they’re learnign pretty fundamental functioning skills.

This is what scares me and what I do not understand. WHO determines low expectation vs. high expectation for people with disabilities. My childrens’ accomplishments surface everyday. As a parent, I want my child to succeed no matter what it takes. That’s my job, that’s what I signed on for. Now, if someone is going to stand in my way “because that’s not the way we do things at this school” what will mother bear do? No one at the school has told me up until this point that my expectations for my child are too high. Now all of a sudden (now that I am questioning progress) the school is telling me that “the expectations for students with disablilities is not the same as the average child.”What does that mean, give up and what ever happens, happens? No chance. What is average anyway? Why are parents not told this, do not expect your child to go to college, he is not college material. Where is this grand manual that determines who is college material and who has potential to be successful in life and be a valuable member of society. We all know that a college education is not an option in today’s world. As a parent of two children with disabilities I am offended and extremely saddened that these people who are supposedly “helping” my children really hold little hope for them in the end. We don’t give up, we just find another way!!!! Even Helen Keller became productive with the proper educator and someone who did not give up on her.

I will tell you who determines expectations, IDEA. When this document was passed, we didn’t think that children could be remediated. I remember the psychologist telling me that my dyslexic daughter wouldn’t be able to read because it was genetic. Still today, even with the brain research, the majority of the special education teachers think this way and the school districts sure aren’t. And in some ways, so is the research. If you read it, there are comments that older kids can’t be taught to read. Even the researchers have given up on our kids. Tell that to my 23 year daughter who learned how to read at age 19 or my eleventh grade students who can now read. . As long as schools have to accommodate, there will be very little remediations done for our children. I don’t use any of the accommodations that are listed on my students’ IEPs, I remediate their difficiencies. Now, in my team classes, the only accommodations that I adhere to is reading a standarized test to a student in a small group setting. We had a ‘cluster’ meeting of our area of Loudoun County, VA, elementary, middle and high schools and each of the departments met. Each school told how they taught language arts. Well, the elemen. schools are all whole language and they said that they taught language when the students walked in to when they walked out. Well. I asked what structural writing program did they use? Spelling? Grammar? What phonics program? They said that they don’t teach writing, they don’t want to stifle the kids creativity, don’t have a spelling program, grammar is taught in the context of their writing, (of course, they can’t write!) and they don’t have a phonics program. So I asked, ” If you don’t teach kids how to write nor spell, then why do I have kids who have a writing and spelling disability? How can you be disabled if you haven’t been taught? They just looked at me and had nothing to say.
It is not easy to remediate kids, even to teach kids with methods that work, it takes a lot of work. One thing you have to have is the knowledge of how to teach, very few teachers possess that knowledge. I travel with my curriculum because very few special ed departments have remedial supplies. Very few teachers even know how to teach reading. When I was in college, 91-95, for special education, I was taught to teach reading using whole language. I knew better and looked for something better.
I am new to this board, usually I am on the reading board. I have been reading posts and am very disturbed with what I am reading. Teaching decoding, I think is the easiest deficiency to teach, if you know how. I am reading about teachers accommodating students in regular ed classes who have a second grade reading level. Why aren’t these students being taught how to read? There is no way that a student with low reading skills will make it in college unless they have great auditory memory.
If you are a parent and your child can’t read on grade level, don’t expect the public school to teach him, find a tutor and have her or him teach your child. We are a reading society, without that ability, jobs are limited for him.

Hi Lisa, If you need help this summer, feel free to email me directly and I will call you and help. I never use all of my minutes on my phone so, no problem. [email protected]

Thanks, Shay for your honest comments; we took our son out of special ed. and have had him tutored and he went from nonreading in 2nd to grade level in 5th; the frightening thing is to visit the OSEP web-site and look at the miserable graduation statistics for students with LD in special ed…something like 25-35%!! The school thinks we are unreasonable parents because we kept saying, our son is bright, teach him to read; and we never let up at home.

As an LD teacher, I would urge you to INSIST on accommodations for your child. Also, ask to see the standard scores on the testing rather than any age or grade equivalents. Using the standard scores will give you a very clear view of how far below normal your son’s achievement is. You may always ask for your child to be re-evaluated even if the three years has not elapsed. If you request it, the school district MUST comply. You can also ask that one of the accommodations provided is a set of all texts for use at home - I’m thinking about the play. You should have a copy at home to provide your child with the opportunity to read and study. Your LD case manager should have done this for your son if his disability is as you have indicated. Go ahead and push for whatever you think your child needs - if either you or the school is truly unreasonable, the IEP process allows for a hearing to settle the matter. The bottom line for everyone should be what is in the best interests of the child - this includes having high expectations for the student, but also providing him the tools he needs to be successful. I do agree that keeping him in general ed classes with support is best in the long run. Re reading programs - check to see if anyone is trained in the Wilson Reading Program. I have used that with many students and it is amazing to watch their progress (not good for kids with poor auditory discrimination). Good luck.

Lisa,

It does break my heart too the attitude that they will just push our kids through school. They truly don’t care about our kids future life.

Who exactly has the problem here anyway? Do the powers that be want the world to be run by people who were not even taught to read properly.

My understanding of putting my son into special ed class was that they would give him extra help blah blah blah. He is now almost 10 and not as dumb as they think because he knows they aren’t helping him.

We need to keep up our fight for our kids and I try and get other parents involved who have non ld kids. You would be suprised the support I get at times. I call on all the excellent teachers I know for advise.

Keep the faith.

I did insist and his accomodations have been added back in. Also during his resource hour they will address his issue with reading using the SRA reading recovery program. One of his accomodations will be the 2nd set of books! This will help a great deal. I found this out today when the school responded to the letter I wrote. Thanks for your valuable insight.

What SRA reading recovery program?

Sorry used wrong words it is SRA corrective reading got several programs they mentioned mixed up. They will use the SRA corrective reading program. Plus they will work on study skills and organizational skills.