writing problems

Yes, do push for keyboarding work.

And ask, very specifically, what kinds of
accommodations will be made for the 4th grade test.

My biggest complaint about this high stakes
testing business (and I have many) is that it is
not the child that flunks the test but the school.
Whatever they are doing is WRONG, not the child.
And asking the child to repeat a failed program
is NOT the answer.

My son taught himself to type by playing an internet
game with his buddy next door.
They would consult about the game on a separate message
space and now he burns up the keyboard. And he can spell
things like ‘annihilation’, okay not my first choice for his
vocabulary but follwoing his interest never fails.

Anne

I have a 12 year old son who also has problems with writing - sentence structure, capitalization, spatial reasoning, etc. I would be interested in hearing what you learn about getting him help through the school system. I am just beginning the IEP process with my son so if you have any suggestions, I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks so much. Diana

My oldest past the FLA WRITES exam by the resource room teacher allowing him to dictate and she wrote for him. They still should allow this accomodations. You will need it on his IEP.

I’m a firm believer in computers for kids with difficulty writing. We’ve often put kids on an AlphaSmart in 3rd grade but then recommend they get their own laptop or use the classroom computers for all their writing. What a difference it makes in their output! I generally recommend that parents get their children keyboarding lessons during the summer before 4th grade.

There are some kids who simply will not be able to progress in 3rd and 4th grade unless they have this as an accomodation. Frankly, in the end, all the other kids will be using them too for writing papers, esp. by high school. So these kids who really need it get to learn their keyboards many years before the other kids. That’s a nice advantage for kids who usually find themselves lagging behind everyone else in acquiring new skills.

Certainly by college, if not before, students do the bulk of their written work on the computer. Kids with fine motor issues, dysgraphia, among other problems, ought to be allowed to keyboard.

OK. I am with you on the keyboarding. My nonLD daughter who also has some handwriting issues started to prefer typing in about third grade—although we usually ended up doing most of it because she was so slow. She is now in 6th grade and learned to type at school and it has made an amazing difference for her. She types everything—including all her notes. So I agree with you. It is the logistics of what to emphasize when, given his vast needs that I am struggling with.

I have a typing program from AVKO—designed for dylexics. Now the teacher’s manual says 3 times a day for 10 to 15 minutes each time. So in here lies the problem. How much can you do in one summer.

I have found a tutor for LIPS and V & V for the summer. She is to come three days a week for an hour and I plan to work with him for another two. My son has also been having trouble in math ever since they hit fractions in March. He had been in a resource room for math the last two years but was mainstreamed this year. He needs work in fractions, hasn’t a clue about double digit multiplication (keeps adding!!!) and still isn’t automatic with all his math facts. I was planning on working with him on math.

I could manage maybe one 10-15 session on keyboarding but certainly not three with math, tutoring, regular reading ect. I don’t know if that would do any good. Or is learning to keyboard more important than the math. I am not giving up the LIPS and V & V!!!!

It is so hard when you have a child who has problems in basically everything.

Beth

My son does do much better at dictating. A couple years ago I was told he just needs a very good secretary when he grows up!!! I will try to get this into his IEP. How do they grade the grammar, spelling when they do this?

On another note, I got a flyer about the McKay scholarships. I have been feeling rather discouraged because my son’s problems seem to just be increasing. I have been thinking that I ought to consider a school designed for LD kids. I went on the website and about all I learned is that you can get a voucher for what the district receives for your child. The schools here are quite pricey and I wondered if you had any idea the range the voucher would be in.

Beth

About dictation;
What my son did,was he would tell them period,capitol,etc.
He passed,by the skin of his teeth,but he passed. 3.0 respectively.

About the McKay:
Your son,with an IEP,has what is called a Matrix of services form. This is the funding criterion used to figure out how much in state funds he has,or what the school gets for him,in other words. The Matrix numbers can be anywhere from 251-255 depending on what services you have on your IEP.You will find this,or should find this form in his Educational file. The funding criterion changed in 2001. Kids from 251-254 recieve the same amount,BUT,once decided to enroll into this program,the district must use the 1999 funding criterion and provide a number from 251-255. So if your child doesn’t have a number,they will have to come up with one. I am sure you realize the potential for problems here,I suggest going to your kids file and looking for the Matrix,before telling anyone why your wanting to review his file.

Now the private school,once you decide to enroll him, submits to the state a fee schedule. This schedule is everything he needs,including any kind of related services.It includes tuition,books,supplies,also.The state then takes this fee schedule,and compares it to your Matrix and whichever dollar amount is less, is the amount your son has for his educational needs. The kicker,and the basis of an OCR complaint against the state currently,(guess who filed that?) Is once the amount is determined there is no way to ever regenerate funding. In other words,if you leave the public school,without OT on your IEP,there is no way to increase state funds to pay for OT. The thing most parents are not aware of,and of course no one is telling them,is once participating in the voucher,you are considered under IDEA as a parentally placed private school student,this means you have no right to an IEP anymore. If you don’t have a right to an IEP,then you can’t get OT placed on an IEP,and then on the Matrix form,to include this in your funding needed. On the other hand you do still have the right to be identified. You can request an evaluation,the district can say,why yes,he needs OT,but then unless you reenroll him in to public school,there is no way to add this to the state funding. Bottom line,don’t leave without fighting for the IEP,because once gone,you have no ammunition to fight with.
Now with all this said,you and the school sit down and figure out what all your kid needs,you make this wish list( fee schedule) and submit this to the state. If you know what Matrix number your kid has,then you of course are a jump ahead,with knowing what amounts your working with.
Another very important pitfall,with the last ammendment to this statute,they purposely left out wording that stated the private school must take whatever amount the state gives,this means they can require you to pay the remainder if it falls short.This will be required until someone files in court and challenges this,so far no one has done this.

It will prove to be a huge disparity,because the ones who have the money to pay the difference will,the ones who don’t will be forced to stay in the public school. I know,they call it a parental choice.

The way to think about this program is you are your own little school district. You just have one kid in your school district. The state funds go to the school,you sign the check over to them,in agreement with the school you use whatever funding is left to privately contract for services such as Assitive Tech.,OT,IM,Fastforword etc. It is VERY IMPORTANT that you have an agreement,A WRITTEN one,with the private school. IF there is funding left over. I chose to enroll my two in a much less expensive school,and we together beefed up their curriculum. OHH,forgot,very important. Whatever the private school places on their fee schedule they must also offer it to all the students,my school director,simply changed his phamplet,he now offers OT,Speech,Assistive Technology,it is at an additional cost,but he didn’t have these services before.IN other words,we took a good school and made it better,together. The big chains that are popping up all over the state are not in the business to include extra’s,beyond what they already offer,once the check is signed to them,well,it is a tricky situation. Be dilligent in your search of school’s. Feel free to email me,I have ever matrix number for every county in the state. If you know what your son’s number is,just tell me what county and what number and I can give you amounts:-)

On the side,FYI,there are a lot of schools out there who need educating on how this program works and what they can do to help kids. You might think about helping one, help your kid:-) Go talk, see if they would consider being a part of the voucher. I personally know someone in Ft. Laud. who did this,she went and convinced a private school to become a participating McKay school.
The private school does not have to take anyone,they are not forced to accept kids they are not equiped to handle,most do not realize this. They can accept one kid,if they wanted to.

Also,a few counties are now doing what is called an umbrella school. This is where you are formally enrolled in the private school,but you are basicly contracted to provide homeschooling to your child. I know you homeschooled before,I could put you in touch with someone who is involved in this.

Anyway,after all I went through,and learned about how the program works,I am determined to make sure others understand the game also. And believe me Beth,it is still all just a big game. Once you know the rules,your set.

Beth,

What about On cloud nine? This is the LMB Vand V Math program?

I personally hate the keyboarding programs. I swear I can type using four fingers and so does my son. It is a matter of survival,and surviving however you can. Why force the kid to do it everybody elses way? I can’t see it. Just my humble opinion. Of course if your kid can cover the keys with his fingers and visualize where the letters are ,well,heck he doesn’t need V and V. Just another personally and very humble opinion.

If you do V and V this might solve the keyboarding problem,aside from fine motor. I suppose it would depend on what the problem is.

Now about the alphasmart. Yes,this is the one they give out to all elem students,and forced, they will give out to high schoolers. It is a nightmare for a kid with visual spatial problems,due to the small screen. The SCHOOL,is obligated to provide an APPROPRIATE device. If an alphasamrt isn’t doing it ,then fight for a Laptop. My two use the HP,and do well on it,they are very hard on them,and they have held up,thank god.Yes,we have alphasmarts somewhere,they are collecting dust.

Our school has been allowing Robbie to keyboard since 4th grade, but because he wasn’t any better at that than writing by hand, he had no incentive to use it. We paid him to work with a keyboarding program during the summer bother before and after 4th grade, but he didn’t make a lot of progress.

This year, (5th) we finally got the school to give him direct keyboard instruction 3 days a week, and we are finally seeing results. We had an assistive tech eval done this spring, and they’ve made some good suggestions for next year. We;ve also found a tutor who is also an experienced touch typist who will continue working with him 3 days a week over the summer to keep those skills going. Without this, I think he’d be in real trouble next year with the increased writing expectations of middle school.

Karen

I think the one 15 minutes a day during the summer would be worth it. If you can get hin to do it. My son had it three times a week on this IEP and once he learned the key positions and could type 11 words a minute he was faster then he could write. My husband added the incentive of we would by him a PDA once he typed 15 words a minute. He will be going into high school in the fall and we will get him a laptop with Windows-XP which supports Spanish in the Word Processor.

Helen

Socks, I agree with you about the AlphaSmart. The only reason I include it is because, in some schools, that’s the ONLY keyboard allowed. I’ve been fighting with a middle school to allow a client of mine to use a laptop - her own, no less - in school. Because of their fears about it being stolen, they’re banned in school. This kid doesn’t qualify for special services there. An AlphaSmart is what they consider an accomodation.

For fraction work, I’d try to get hold of the Montessori fraction insets and some lesson plans. They’re very, very concrete and work really well with a V/V program. I’ve been having great success with my kids who need fraction work by having them use these insets till I’m satisfied they “see” what fractions are. Then when I shift them gradually over to just paper/pencil fraction work, I use V/V to have them visualize the fraction insets. Some of my kids decided to draw the insets whenever they solve fraction problems.

I like this better than Cloud Nine - I wish LMB developed that program a little better. I generally think the Montessori materials and organization of the math program is superior so I combine that with V/V (which really is the principle behind Cloud Nine anyhow - get them to visualize math).

As far as time management over the summer, I hear you. I’d say that LIPS and V/V is the most important of all- it’s the basis of so much of the other work. By aiding your son there, you’ll be building the new pathways towards getting some keyboarding skills going too. I’d let keyboarding, despite the need, take last place to the other programs.

Both of my children learned(in computer lab at school) to touch type at school using Type to Learn(Sunburst); I think 15 min. a day of practice is plenty! My son with LD also used Read, Write and Type(The Learning Co), which is an old program(but still around in discount bins) that uses phonics, not letter names, to teach.

What would be Montesorri materials and where would you get them? I too have heard that Cloud 9 isn’t as good as some of Lindamood’s other programs.

Beth

Thanks for all the thoughts. I will try the 15 minutes a day with keyboarding.

Now any thoughts on what the school could do to teach him to write? Right now he has an hour of resource time in a group setting for all of language arts—including reading and writing.

Beth

SAR wrote:
> My son with LD also used
> Read, Write and Type(The Learning Co), which is an old
> program(but still around in discount bins) that uses phonics,
> not letter names, to teach.

Is this the one?

http://www.readwritetype.com/order.html

Socks,

I have tried to take you up on your offer to email you but my messages keep getting bounced back. Maybe if you would e-mail me first, I could reply.

Beth

nt

.

IF you can’t find it, try AVKO on the net. They have a typing program designed for dylexics.

Beth

Beth,

I’ve ordered supplies from the following three companies:

www.nienhuis.com
www.michaelolaf.net
www.montessoriservices.com

Nienhuis is the “official” Montessori supplier but they’re also the most expensive. Often you can find the same things from a different supplier.

Finding the lesson plans might be a little harder but if you’re real serious about it, I can email them to you. It would require my typing it all up which I’d be willing to do once school is over for me in two weeks! I have lots of reports to write.

Joan,

Thanks for the sites and the offer to type your lesson plans up. It is incredibly generous of you. I def. am going to something this summer but don’t want to impose if I can find things other ways.

I bought a little book called Teaching Montessori in the Home—the school years. Are you familiar with it? It is by Elizabeth Hainstock. It has some ideas in it, although I wouldn’t go as far as to call it lesson plans.

I also was planning on using a book by Marilyn Burns called Lessons for Introducing Fractions. Several people on these boards have loved it. Are you familiar with it?

Beth

Check online — do a search for it and just ignore the latest and greatest version :