okay, I'm goin in, but gonna need backup

I know you won’t like what I’m going to say, but I would be thrilled to get a letter like that; yes my LD 5th grader struggles in math and we work at home and he goes to private(parent funded)tutoring, but he does make progress(and we are in a total inclusion system)…but my very bright 3rd grader is so bored, having mastered long division, that he would love an advanced math class. In MA, spending for gifted and talented programs is 49th out of 50 states, and our district did away with gifted programs long ago. I am more able to help tutor my LD 5th grader in math, and support him in class than I am able to stimulate my 3rd grader. Our district spends much more on special ed. than it does on enrichment for reg. ed. At least I am able to advocate for my LD son because of his “label”…for my son who is very bright, it is luck of the draw with each class, because there is no entitlement.

Thanks for your input. I see the dilemma that you are in. Unfortunately, I understand that it is hard to accomodate both extremes, but what if, like in my case, I do not know how to help my LD kids, I am not trained to give them the specialized instruction they need. But at least your advanced child has the basics to survive in the world without being called a dummy. What about the child who grows up to be an adult who cannot survive college (odds say advanced children will), cannot get a professional job (advanced will) and cannot even read and understand directions on a medication bottle for himself or for the care of his future children. In fourth and fifth grade, we still have to concentrate on the basics and make sure EVERYONE is ready to move forward, not just a select few. The goal is to make sure everyone will have the opportunity to live a successful life. Not weed out the bad ones and hope they somehow make it through. There is plenty of time to focus on that in Jr. High and High School where they sift through you and put you with “your equals.” The money needs to be concentrated where it will be most useful. I know you won’t like this either, but I wish I were in your shoes. We cannot get appropriate services for the children who WILL be left behind. I guess there is no answer that will please both sides. All I know is that I want my child to have the same opportunities as the advanced kids. He is capable, he just needs the proper instruction to unlock the door.

I think I would call your director of special services, or
whatever title the person has that oversees the ld and other
different services.
Take the letter in and explain your frustrations and problems
to him. Sometimes real change can only come from the top.

That said, being in Honors Math this year saved my 6th grader
from despair as he earned D after D in Language Arts and Social
Studies with no help and no support.

There ought to be a way for kids to shine and to be helped.

Anne
(reading your subject head I had visions of a bunch of moms
in ninja gear with IEPs in hand sneaking past the cafeteria….)

SAR wrote:
>
> At least I am able to advocate for my
> LD son because of his “label”…for my son who is very
> bright, it is luck of the draw with each class, because there
> is no entitlement.

Now, let’s make things a little more complicated: how would you thus approach an LD/gifted? My son fits this category and our school district has “talented and gifted” program starting in 5th grade. I am puzzled what to do with my son… He will be in 5th grade next year. He is gifted and certainly should participate in talented and gifted and at the same time he is just “low average” in virtually every subject in school (except math where is just average) due to his reading/writing difficulties. His math facts are not great (mostly because of lack of drill nothing else than that) and the reading- better not even discuss that skill… Since his self-esteem is poor I am not sure whether he should really be part of talented and gifted- it might put him in really tough situation. On the other hand, I know he should be far more stimulated intellectually than he is now (he cannot really appreciate the progress he is making in reading since he is already so behind that it will take a few years before he will really see a difference). We may get from the school to pay attention to remediate his weaknesses what I am really afraid- the school will not be able to stimulate his talents (at least not at the elementary school level). What to do with a kid like that?

I think it really is proof that inclusion and mainstreaming just is not appropriate. It has been the blanket cure-all but there is just no way for everyone to be accomodated correctly when there is such a great difference in all of the children. And it is not fair to ask either side to give something up for the sake of the other. In that case neither will reach their full potential.

I am not saying that this advanced class is wrong. For these children it may be right. But what about the talented science students (my LD son consitently scores in the 90th percentiles on standardized tests in science and social studies) should his gifts be accomodated because he is bored in average science class? We are talking about a 40 minute period in the day and we can keep splitting the hairs for every individual talent that each child has. We need to go back to really taking a look at all of these kids and not be afraid of grouping them with their equals. There is nothing wrong with that. Everyone’s needs are met, they are not being locked in a closet for crying out loud. We are just being realistic.

We have gotten into this mess by insisting on inclusion and not accepting of the fact that everyone needs something different. We all know what needs to happen to do this, classrooms of child with similiar learning styles and abilities. Instead we force all of these kids into 1 general classroom and pretend that we are treating them as individuals. This is just not common sense. It is called political correctness, and let’s face it, it’s not working in education.

Our teachers are being asked to prepare lessons for the gifted, the LD, the physically challenged, ED yet maintain the average for the rest of the class. Forget about all of the IEP/504 accomodations and modifications that are in their classroom as well. How can anyone say that their child is being educated appropriately with all that they have to worry about in any given day. It is just not humanly possible.

Grouping by abilities isn’t the answer either. The high groups just keep getting smarter and the lower groups aren’t challenged enough. Our kiddo was headed to a special day class in 3rd grade because of dyslexia and inneffective tracking/grouping of math since the 3rd grade, in addition to a RSP pull out model that was run ineptly.. I was the one that taught her math facts by using Times Tables the fun way, she learned algebra through Hands on Equations through my direction, she learned to read because I taught her, she is learning to write better because of what she learned from the private tutoring we paid for. If I had waited for the District to get their rear in gear it would have never happened. She would have been in a special day class which would have lead to a dead end and no high school diploma.

She still has dyslexia, is ADD but she is mainstreamed in all her classes and is in one English RSP Collaborative class. That is the ONLY class where she is struggling. She is making wonderful grades in the Regular ed inclusion classes she is challenged, learning and participating with the regular ed students.

My advice is do what you can to help your child on your own. If you spend time and money fighting the district your child is the one who loses out in the long run. We put our money into our child and when she was turned around we took the district to due process. They paid, yes it cost us some money but it saved time, our daughters self-esteem and now she is succeeding.

Thanks for your response. I earnestly applaud your successes with your child and are interested in the programs you mentioned. But does it not infuriate you that you must do someone elses job; especially several of your employees? When will the inadequacy end? Someone, somewhere has to stand up and say the “b.s.” stops here and we will not settle for anything less than what we are paying for and what WE consider appropriate. We are letting them get away with this everytime we take over.

I understand your point and agree totally, that the time is too precious to waste. But in the meantime, someone has to wage the war. Don’t you feel that they count on us giving up on them and taking over; then they win. I can honestly say that I do not feel that disabled people have come much further than where they started if you really look at all families have to go through verses what the beauracracies taut as successes.

Disablities of all types are still so misunderstood and their potential achievements underestimated. I believe that LD children are still viewed as a nuisance to the school, shameful statistics to be hidden, then passed along to the high school to deal with, then their on their own, GOOD LUCK.

The advanced class that I started the thread with was accomplished by a group of assertive parents and our district loves their gifted programs because it looks sooooo good on the state report card. We do not even report all of our IEP’s on the report card that we present to the public, but we certainly brag about ALL of our gifted students.

I’m sorry it’s probably impossible to thoroughly state my case without boring everyone to tears, but I know what I feel in my heart, so I will go from there I guess.

Thanks again, much continued success

Congratulations to your daughter and you. Do you mind telling which grade is she in now?
Nevertheless, as little lule said, it still bothers me that I would need to do the job that others are paid to do. In addition, they will tell me at each PTP meeting how qualified they are and how unqualified I am…
Pattim, I am foreign and it really appears to me as a sad fact (say the least) that I am suppose to learn how to teach dyslexics reading in ENGLISH, while to me this is a second language… And believe me I had to because how otherwise would I be able to even know whether the teacher is really doing what is needed?

What exactly did you use from http://www.citycreek.com/times/ (time Tables the fun way), which products did you buy? Clue cards?
Thanks, Ewa

As a child I was one of the kids in a special day class with a pull out model for speech services. I had strabismus with two surgeries by the time I was 7 years old. I also have a hearing impairment and ADD. Back in those days it was before an IEP was even around…I got lucky but I did get the services I needed from a wonderful SLP. Also, after I was remediated I was placed in the gifted and talented program. I was able to make it and I know how many of these children feel and I suppose that is what makes me able to help them. I work as a substitute teacher now…and I have seen some good programs and some bad programs over the years.

I am one of the few who had the courage to stand up and say enough is enough with some of the district employees who have passed the buck. I have been chewed out by an old time SLP for reporting her and getting her in hot water but I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t say something.

It does rankle but Special ed isn’t set up like a boot camp like it was supposed to be. A child was going to be in Special Ed until they caught up and then they would be placed back into the mainstream. What I have seen happen is that many teachers are ill equipped to deal with teaching reading. Some even have their own phonemic awareness issues and don’t understand the sound symbol relationship themselves. I have worked in high school with ESL and SDC students who couldn’t even read at the 3rd grade level. I set up a reading program for them before I left. It is imparative that those of us who know what we are doing pass the torch to those who don’t whenever we get the chance.

We got the tutoring version of Times Tables the Fun Way. It came with the stories, the cards and workbooks. After 2 years of struggling to memorize times tables my daughter remembered them in 1 week with the pictures and stories.

Our daughter was in 5th grade when I pulled her out and did our intervention program during the latter half of 5th grade and during the summer before 6th grade started. She was failing everything, her self-esteem was in tatters, she had given up on everything. One other thing that made a big difference was realizing that on top of the dyslexia we were dealing with ADD. Once we started medication she really made a jump in her abilities….

We took the district to DP that summer and then placed her in a lab class at a learning center for 6th grade. She grew by leaps and bounds that year. It was a killer for us financially, we travelled about 500 miles a week to the class and back but it was worth it. I just found my efforts were better spent in developing a relationship with my daughter of success and being involved in her education instead of fighting with the district in IEP meetings that went for hours and they wouldn’t budge. We still fight at IEP meetings but they will usually listen to me and meet me halfway because I know what I am doing and my daughter has caught up.

We paid for my training in Lindamood-Bell methods before I went back to school to become an SLP. It helped me understand how I could help my daughter and other kids that have learning differences. My daughter is now in 7th grade going into 8th. She was never retained or placed in a special day class because I have fought them every step of the way. They wanted to put her into a SDC for english and I said no. I basically provide the scaffolding she needs to be successful in regular ed. She is not in learning strategies, she has her elective and enjoys school. Yes, it takes a lot out of me but from what I have seen it is the parents who are involved with their kids education whose kids make it in special education. The parents who aren’t involved are clueless and their kids lose out…

One of the best things you can do with your child is to read fun stories with them everynight that they are interested in to help build a positive relationship about reading and their vocabulary.

OKay in answer to your original question,what would your complaint be about.
This is sections of the 504 antidiscrimination law. To segregate the students,to pay special attention to gifted students without giving the same amount of time and energies to disabled students can have the effect of discrimination. As you stated,having to beg for services,is not the same thing as the district willingly adopting a program to provide educational benefit to gifted students. In other words,great, provide it,but at the same time they must provide willingly a program for kids who are ld in math and in need of educational benefit as well.

(2) For purposes of this part, aids, benefits, and services, to be equally effective, are not required to produce the identical result or level of achievement for handicapped and nonhandicapped persons, but must afford handicapped persons equal opportunity to obtain the same result, to gain the same benefit, or to reach the same level of achievement, in the most integrated setting appropriate to the person’s needs.

(3) Despite the existence of separate or different aid, benefits, or services provided in accordance with this part, a recipient may not deny a qualified handicapped person the opportunity to participate in such aid, benefits, or services that are not separate or different.

(4) A recipient may not, directly or through contractual or other arrangements, utilize criteria or methods of administration (i) that have the effect of subjecting qualified handicapped persons to discrimination on the basis of handicap, (ii) that have the purpose or effect of defeating or substantially impairing accomplishment of the objectives of the recipient’s program or activity with respect to handicapped persons, or (iii) that perpetuate the discrimination of another recipient if both recipients are subject to common administrative control or are agencies of the same State.

(5) In determining the site or location of a facility, an applicant for assistance or a recipient may not make selections (i) that have the effect of excluding handicapped persons from, denying them the benefits of, or otherwise subjecting them to discrimination under any program or activity that receives Federal financial assistance or (ii) that have the purpose or effect of defeating or substantially impairing the accomplishment of the objectives of the program or activity with respect to handicapped persons.

(6) As used in this section, the aid, benefit, or service provided under a program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance includes any aid, benefit, or service provided in or through a facility that has been constructed, expanded, altered, leased or rented, or otherwise acquired, in whole or in part, with Federal financial assistance.

(c) Aid, benefits or services limited by Federal law. The exclusion of nonhandicapped persons from aid, benefits, or services limited by Federal statute or executive order to handicapped persons or the exclusion of a specific class of handicapped persons from aid, benefits, or services limited by Federal statute or executive order to a different class of handicapped persons is not prohibited by this part.

Hope this helps. Not going to get into the whys and where fors in needs of the gifted,I have two Gifted lder’s of my own. And by the way,they also have rights under the law for being gifted. The talented part,tweeks me,gifted and talented? Please,what about all those talented Lders out there? I would have to call this title discriminatory personally.

My 8th grade son who is ADHD, inattentive, CAPD, and dsylexic may not be gifted, has FSIQ of 95, but he is talented. I think just because an individual maybe does not have the conginitve power a school covets does not mean this individual does not have talent. My son excels at art, music, and understanding people. None of these talents are really coveted in public schools. What the school sees of a child like this is: if he can draw in 3D or interupt just about anything into pictures he can’t be disabled. If he can read and understand music how come he is not able to read and understand print well, must be lazy. How can this child be CAPD if he can listen to music and then play a piece by ear after only hearing it a few times, must be lazy. If this child seems to pick up on how people are feeling and can make them feel better how come this same child can’t seem to understand things in general, must be lazy. You get so use to hearing the negative about a child like this that when someone does ever say anything positive you are floored. The child is not a behavior problem so he must be unmotiviated and we as a school can’t do anything to help this. So many different kiddo’s out there how do you accomodate them all?

Of course I can count on you for the backup ammo. Thanks. Of course LD/gifted is certainly going to be an issue. It will be interesting to see how that one pans out because of the criteria involved in getting into this group. Not LD appropriate, I’m sure. We will see. May more parents to complain, don’t think I’m the only one. I hope, anway. I’m printing out your info to save for such an instance.

I have read a few of the responses here and can see both sides. What comes to mind is that the school spent time and energy creating this gifted math program and they should be acknowleged for that… and then you should ask the school what they are going to do to fullfill their obligations to the special needs students… after all, they’ve proven that they can do when they set their minds to it.

Well, it is like this the higher scoring students will make the school’s overall average look better. They could get some kind of good school review.

Too bad they don’t measure achievements for kids who have to work harder to make gains.

Hi,
I have a severely LD 5th grade and a math gifted 3rd grader too. I have had to struggle to just get my LD kid basic skills. The PS failed miserably and I had to spend a fortune on Lindamood bell programs just to teach my son basic reading and math skills.

Specialized programs for LD kids are far more expensive! Hiring a regular tutor or going to a Kumon center to teach the younger child some advanced math is FAR CHEAPER!

I have spent $18,000 my LD kid in the past 2 years because his needs are greater leaving little for my gifted son.

BTW if your LD kid does not have number sense, he maybe getting little out of your help too. Just to check, draw a line on a peice of paper. Label one end of the line “0”, label the other end “10”. Ask your child to put all the missing numbers in between 0 and 10 with the proper spacing. If he can do this easily, then your tutoring is probably working fine. If he cannot, you are wasting his time and he neeeds a specialized LD math program.

On Cloud 9 is a really good program that addresses this deficit.

Using kids to put a feather in the school’s cap. Typical competitive mentality. Maybe they should call in the football coach to give these special kids a pep talk. A school’s primary efforts should be directed to the students that need the most help not blowing sunshine up the butts of parents with gifted students. Flip em off and tellem it was from Ball.