Thrilled w/results

Wow! That’s encouraging!!!! Thanks for sharing that. It’s like there could be light at the end of this tunnel! We’re just in the beginning months of rememdiation (and trying to determine the best places to start) so your good news gives me hope.
:-)

Oops—actually the split is now only 8, not 13 points!!!

So I am driving home and thinking this is way too good to be true–30 points, maybe 8 or 10 or even 15 but 30…. Some of the subtest names were different, but he said the names had changed on the new version of the test, still measure the same things…..I call the ed pysch and the test was NOT the WISC!!! I just assumed it would be.

It was the BAS II, and the subtest names had changed from the BAS I. A good British test, but not the WISC! Results are still great, he still sees huge improvement from 3 years ago, but not the information I wanted. We are still celebrating the great results—but next time, if there ever is a next time for testing, I will be sure to ask for what I want.

Oh well no miracle here, but solid progress.

Test scores are just numbers, whatever the test, I think we read too much into every subtest score. Sounds like your child has progressed due to everyone’s hard work! I have learned to wait for the written report, ask for the standard scores, test and retest 3 years apart, and not to assume too much from IQ and achievement testing done at age 5-7years old, since much change comes from development alone. I assume you’re in the UK, was the first test the British WISC?

Margo, Hey there. It doesn’t matter what the numbers show in absolute terms - you know that your son has made great strides in relative terms. And you should feel great about that. I love the good news on eye contact!

Yeah for you and your little guy.

You get alot of the credit too. Your little guy will thank you some day for not sitting on your hands about getting him the help he needed.

I hope to be in your shoes some day. Thanks for the inspiration to carry on.

Thanks for your response–-

Yes, the first test was the UK version of WISC, even though we are American. Is there any reason you ask? Just wondering.

Congrats on seeing some results of so much hard work. I had the same amazing glow when we re-tested my daughter a year ago, there was so much improvement (though still lots of issues) — but the feeling of “We’ve done right by her” carried me for many months. Enjoy.

She probably asked because the WISC-III is the standard test used here in ed. testing and the other test you mentioned I have never heard of being used in the US. If it were me, I’d definitely ask for a retest with the WISC. Two different tests is like comparing apples and ornages, although I will say, it sounds like your son has made outstanding progress!!! Congratulations!

Warning to parents in the US: you are at risk of losing services altogether if you allow a reevaluation which shows improvement to the point your child no longer qualifies. That child may be VERY dependent on IEP modifications, so just be careful about allowing retesting. You can always have testing done privately if you want to measure progress and the school won’t have to know.

Janis

Margo,

Congratulations to you and your son for such hard work. I am so happy for you. I think quality testing can be important for seeing what is working for our kids.

I’ve never heard of actual IQ scores going up. Can someone explain? I’ve always been told they never retest IQ because it’s a constant.

Leah,

There should be someone here that can answer this better than me, but in general, when a child has auditory, visual, or perhaps motor problems, those issues may effect the child’s performance on the IQ test. When therapy is successful, then you might see the child’s performance on certain tasks improve.

For most people, there probably is not a huge variation in scores when retested. But the circumstance above is one in which scores may improve. There is also a situation where scores may fall. If a dyslexic child, for example, is not taught to read, s/he may fall behind in vocabulary and verbal skills due to being unable to read, and in this case, scores can fall. This is called the Matthew effect and has been used in lawsuits to prove that the schools have not remediated in order to get private LD school placement.

Janis

From what I have read, IQ can improve a lot if the child is tutored or given the appropriate therapy. Think of the verbal IQ, you can work on a childs general knowledge and vocabulary just by reading to him or her, watching Discovery Channel, educational movies, educational CDRoms, etc. The latest research into the brain show that it is able to form new pathways and improve its functioning, this is known as neuroplasticity.

Looks like your efforts are paying off. There may have been some developmental lag and now he’s catching up. Keep on keepin on.

Janis,

Then that’s what you mean in one of your earliest posts, i.e., parents watch out your child can improve to the point that they are no longer covered by an IEP?

My daughter had a 19 point spread between performance and verbal IQ. She is in LMB and SI OT and I can see a tremendous difference. I had her re-evaluated (privately both times) after 1 year of these interventions so I could see if progress was being made. My evaluator did not re-evaluate the IQ, only the subtests.

She went up 7 pts. in reading comprehension, and improved in most areas a little. Do you think it would be wise to have her IQ retested or am I shooting myself in the foot? She gets FCAT accommodations (scores in the 95% for Reading Comprehension and 91% for Math) and uses assistive technology in the classroom. No other real accommodations other than extended time for large reading and writing assignments

Also, one more question.

WHen they say there has to be a gap, do they mean between verbal and perfomrance IQs or do they mean between full scale IQ and performance levels- is that the SS score?)

Looks like I’d understand this better since I’m living it, doesn’t it? All I know is that she is considered to have severe, specific SLD in all academic areas and significant processing delays.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

IQ tests can’t be repeated year after year; usually, every 2-3years if there is a reason to retest. States have differing ways of classifying students for special ed.; what state are you in? Usually for LD, evaluators look at discrepancy between ability(IQ) and achievement testing. IQ scores should be reported with confidence intervals, which mean that if the test was repeated, it is say 90% certain that the scores would fall in a certain range. I have never heard of only doing a few subtests of the WISC, and not the whole test. I’m not sure how valid that would be. Despite what gets posted here alot, many nonLD kids have spreads between V and P IQ scores, especially as they get older(they need to get speed bonuses to get higher P scores)…My own son’s WISC scores changed from age 7 to 10yrs old, but the category(superior) did not; so the differing V and P scores(including subtests) did not help us understand his LD any better, nor did it cause the school to do anything different. Achievement and reading testing was more informative. Good Luck.

Leah,

While a large verbal/performance gap is an indicator of a LD, in my experience, the discrepancy usually needed for placement as LD is between IQ and achievement. Usually the full scale IQ score is used, but probably not when there is a huge discrepany between V and P, like in your child’s case. In that case I think they may use the higher of the two scores, but I’m not positive since I don’t see that very often. And states do have some variations in how they qualify kids.

Let’s say a child has a full scale IQ of 105 and my state requires a 15 point discrepancy (some states require 22). Then the child would have to have a standard score of 90 or below to qualify as LD in reading, math. written language, oral expression, or listening comprehension.

So lets say the child has LD help for three years and has made some gains but still is very dependent on modifications and/or some resource help to make it in regular class. Then the parents request a full reevaluation when the third year reeval is due. Even if the IQ score is the same, the achievement could come up to a standard score of 92 or more, and the child could be totally disqualified for services based on a slight increase. The other thing that can happen is that IQ drop of a few points if the child is not receiving appropriate remediation, and that could cause a decrease in the discrepancy as well.

If I were in your shoes, I’d be very interested in seeing the IQ test repeated after two or three years of therapy just for my own curosity. But I’d probably do it privately so as not to jepardize school services in the event the gains are significant. Are the LMB and SI OT through the school or all private? Even if they are all private, you probably want to hang on to those accomodations in class. When it comes time for school reeval, the team can choose to say she still has needs for services and no futher testing is necessary (assessment determination). That is the right choice to make if a child has made improvements and you don’t want to take the chance of them testing out of the program.

Janis

Janis, you said 19 points gap is big- my son’s gap was 16 points (performance higher) 3 years ago and now it grew to 28 points.

Any comments?

Ewa,

That is pretty much an indicator of some kind of serious language delay. My serverely hearing impaired students, for example norammly will have a performance score in the average range (or higher) and a depressed verbal score. Naturally they are at a disadvantage since they do not have the access to language that a normally hearing child would. I suppose a severe case of auditory processing disorder might show scores like that, too, but not always. I’m sure there are other causes of this kind of delay. I would be concerned that the V - P gap widened. Did one decrease or the other increase or both? What kinds of therapy does your child receive? I’m just speaking generally here as I really know nothing about your child, of course. (And I am a special ed. teacher, not an educational psychologist).

Janis

Janis,

my son’s scores were 112(V) and 129(P) (Spring of 1st grade) and after 2.5 years they changed to 104(V) and 132(P) (Fall of 4th grade).
He was receiving “small group” phonics for 2.5 years (as a result of which is reading did not improve much) and finally last summer he got 30 hours of OG and this year he is getting 1:1 Wilson (daily)- he finally made nice gains but he is still ~1.7 years behind and reading at ~70 wpm at 3.3 grade level and going into a 5th grade.
So far we know he is this “double deficit” case, and we are very concern that without reading and such poor auditory perception he is more likely “lost” in regular classroom (especially that his school is “open classroom setting”). We are seriously considering sending him to school for dyslexics but with his anxiety about changing school it is not an easy decision to make… Nevertheless, we feel he needs very intensive remediation otherwise he will have no chance of surviving in public school. I finally educated myself to go to audiologist (we are going next week) and I am hoping I will get some suggestions about remediation of his auditory perception.

Ewa,

Have you seen the site www.ncapd.org ? They have a referral list of audiologists on there that specialize in auditory processing. You will get better information from one who specializes in most cases. In your child’s case, I would think that would be imperative. Actually, his IQ scores show he is very bright. But you are correct that open classroom is the worst setting for kids with APD. Wilson is a good reading program, and it sounds though your son is making progress. If he will change schools anyway for 6th grade (middle school?), perhaps you might want to check out that facility before deciding to move him now.

Please get a copy of the book, “When the Brain Can’t Hear” by Teri Bellis. It is an excellent overview of APD and will answer many questions for you regarding the types of APD and remediation. I think Amazon has it for around $17.

Janis

Janis wrote:
>
> Ewa,
>
> Have you seen the site www.ncapd.org ?

Janis, thanks. Will check the site.

> They have a referral
> list of audiologists on there that specialize in auditory
> processing. You will get better information from one who
> specializes in most cases. In your child’s case, I would
> think that would be imperative. Actually, his IQ scores show
> he is very bright. But you are correct that open classroom is
> the worst setting for kids with APD. Wilson is a good reading
> program, and it sounds though your son is making progress. If
> he will change schools anyway for 6th grade (middle school?),
> perhaps you might want to check out that facility before
> deciding to move him now.
>

He will move to middle school for the 7th and 8th grade and this is one of the reasons that we decided to check the school now- in two years he might already be too depressed for a move like that. There is a big unknown who will be his teacher in the 5th grade and we know (from the 3rd grade experience) that we just cannot take any risks- he already suffered through a teacher who could not really understand his profile…

> Please get a copy of the book, “When the Brain Can’t Hear” by
> Teri Bellis. It is an excellent overview of APD and will
> answer many questions for you regarding the types of APD and
> remediation. I think Amazon has it for around $17.
>

On my way- thanks a lot. Ewa

> Janis

Ewa,

I think you are wise to explore schools now. Middle school is a rough time for any adolescent but potentially disasterous for a child with special needs of any kind. I wish you and you son all the best.

Janis