Advice Needed

Sounds like a great kid!

He sounds very bright. Plug dual exceptionalities or twice exceptional into a search engine and look for the articles in the eric clearinghouse. Alot of children with LD are truely gifted.

Thanks so much for the information, this certainly looks like something we need to explore. My oldest daughter was tested and has an IQ of 148, but barely passed high school. We are trying to avoid the same situation with our son.There are so many different types of LD, I don’t even know where to begin. He enjoys acting and definetly has talent, but needs to work on the focusing. I really don’t care if this goes anywhere, but he truly loves it and has stuck with it for over four years. Again Thank you.

Interesting.

I read recently that siblings IQs are usually withing 10 points of each other.

Be sure and tell the IEP team that you want your child placed in the gifted class. My daughter attends the gifted classroom and it really does enhance their knowledge and self esteem.

My daughter had been placed in the gifted program and it really didn’t seem to make a difference. My son goes to a private school and there is no gifted program, but the students have to maintain their grade average are they are asked to leave. I just want to try and address this before we even get to that situation. I’m not sure, but the place that is going to do the testing has said that even though he is in a private school, there are things that we can request of our school district……..depending on the outcome of the test. We really didn’t go into that since the results will determine whether that is possible. Does anyone know what services they were talking about?

i’ve been told to be careful on the IQ thing. the only accurate IQ scores come from the WISC-III that is done by a person qualified to give the test. IQ scores are sometimes quoted from the placement testing that they give kids in school as a group. these are not reliable IQ scores.

Have an evaluation done independently and don’t share the results with the Doctors until both are complete. Then see wich one makes the most sense. The School’s evaluation may be self-serving

Gifted classes are so much crap designed to blow sunshine up parent’s butts. What about the kid’s that aren’t gifted? Every time I read a bumper sticker that reads ” Proud Parent of an Honor Student” I wanna puke. What prideful crap!! I saw one that read “My Kid Beat the Crap out of Your Honor Student” Marks are such BS. What about character? The screwing LD kids are getting is because of prideful competition. Japan is even worse kid’s commit suicide there over grades. Grades are a value judgement, something children don’t need.

All the things that you are mentioning fit the profile for ADD. I was in Gifted and Talented classes as a child. I have a high IQ but I definitely had problems focusing as a child, talking out of turn, sitting still I didnt’ learn that I was ADD until college! It is really frustrating to know that you are really smart and you pull C’s on some tests…because you didn’t read the question correctly, you made careless errors or you forgot to turn in assignments… What you are talking about really isn’t that much of an LD issue but it is more of an executive functioning and organizational deficit that is hampered by distractibility, inattention and possibly hyperactivity.

there are several other IQ tests that are perfectly valid- that are individual, given by people who have to meet qualifications standards, and are quite reliable. The WISC III is the most common certainly, but not necessarily the most accurate or the most desirable. I do agree however that group IQ tests are not suitable in assessing LD.

Robin

yes, there are other individual tests that are valid. i guess that was my point. many people use the group testing IQ and don’t realize that it is not a reliable score. sharon said that her daughter’s IQ was 148 but she barely passed high school. my comment was aimed at pointing out that if her daughter’s score was not from an individual test (such as the WISC-III) then she should be careful that the score may not be true. i have seen many parents surprised when the individual testing score comes back very different from the group score that all kids get for placement, especially when you take a look at all of the subtest scoring. many parents do not understand that there is a difference. just pointing that out.

Could be ADHD. Also, not the first time a really bright child has done poorly in school. I have one. In K-3 all they have to do is show up. At some point along the way, the busy work requirement increases and some gifted children are turned off and slip. Gifted youngsters have difficulties that are only now being recognized.

I thank you for the info, but the IQ testing was an individual score not a group. We had originally taken her to the psychologist (on our own) that was used by the school district.We honestly thought there were emotional issues, I guess I should mention there is a large age difference in the two children and they have different fathers. After four sessions we were told that she was just bored and need more challenge, thus she was then placed in the gifted program. This happened when she was in 5th grade. Another point is, ADHD was not so much an issue at that time (over 15 years ago), so I assume they didn’t even look at that at the time. In hindsight, I now see alot of the same characteristics in my daughter. She and I have discussed this and she agrees that it is a possibility that should have been explored.

Sometimes I wonder if a gifted students performance it isn’t so much of an LD because the person is capable, they just chose not to engage. I have seen truly LD youngsters do better than gifted kids simply because they have the structure and stick-to-it-tive-ness that a gifted person may not have, in regards to keeping track of their assignments, budgeting their time and just engaging in the learning process…

I think being on the outside end of any spectrum is a huge disadvantage in the mainstream of life much less in a school- and that most schools- G&T programs or not- are just not designed to meet those requirements. And in the same way we have discussed the appropriateness of meeting the needs of the profoundly handicapped within the typical public school setting on and off- there should be the same discussion regarding the needs of the profoundly “gifted”- though after slogging my way through “A Beautiful Mind” I am not so certain that gifted is the right adjective…

Robin

I have tried so hard over the past few years, to avoid giving my son any label. This last year though, it has been increasingly obvious that he is falling further and further behind. He is easily distractable, fidgets constantly, talks without thinking, extemely inmmature at times and others relates much better to adults. He has a very creative mind and we are constantly being told how bright he is.
The problem is I appreciate that people see him as bright, but he needs to be able to use this in this world. He becomes extremely frustrated when things don’t come easy and he has to apply himself, these are the same things I now realize my daughter dealt with. Fortunately he goes to private school that is extremely structured, so he hasn’t been able to fall too far off track. At this time he really wants to attend this school and knows if his grades aren’t kept up, they will ask him to leave. I guess I’m just looking at the future, when applying himself as needed to keep up may not out weigh the desire to stay at this school. We are having him tested this week for a comprehensive educational evaluation which cover basic academic areas adnd relevant processing areas. I guess it probably is more in the ADHD area, but this group was more responsive to my questions. Thank you for the help and excuse this lengthy reply

I still think it is much easier to work with a G&T student than a child with LD’s. Yes, the G&T’s needs are different but students with LD’s have a harder road to haul. The G&T have different problem in my opinion, as it isn’t in learning foundational skills that a child with LD’s or dyslexia struggles with. G&T’s may have more problems with monitoring their own internal motivation, extreme procrastination and socially they may have difficulties in relating to their peers. My son has a friend in HS who is extremely gifted who does and says some offensive things to my son all the time. This young man has stated that he doesn’t care about people, he has nothing in common with the average teen and his actions make it really hard for my son to put up with. My son has been trying to teach him how to be social but it has been a hard road to haul.

For the student with LD’s they have to have internal motivation in order to make it. My daughter has LD’s due to her hearing impairment and ADHD. She has made tremendous growth once we got a handle on her ADHD and she was able to cross the road from passive inattentive learning into motivated and engaged learning. Prior to getting a handle on the ADHD she wouldn’t engage unless it was something she was interested in.

What happens with some individuals who are ADHD/gifted adults is they can’t handle a job for a long term. They may start out gangbusters but they may not be able to sustain job performance over the long haul. So they bounce from job to job, or if they are in college they will start with good intentions in their classes but start dropping classes and in some instances never finish to get a degree. Part of this problem is that they may not have the internal organizational skills to monitor their continued performance. Possibly a person who is ADHD.gifted can have a personal assistant to help keep him organized. Whereas a person with LD’s may be able to perform better at a job because they have developed the necessary organizational skills and are more motivated to succeed and they will take jobs that others find boring and not motivating.

So perhaps this school which is very structured is just the right atmosphere for Sharon’s son. He needs the external structure the school provides because he does not currently possess it inside of himself. Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens by Sean Covey may be good for your son to read along with you and discuss ways that he can master himself to be a more motivated and successful individual.

A good book to read more about ADD is Driven to Distraction by Hallowell and Ratey.

In regards to IQ, I also liked Daniel Goleman’s book about Emotional Intelligence Why it can matter more than IQ, which talks about how high IQ isn’t as important as having a healthy emotional intelligence that encompasses self-awareness, self-discipline and empathy which are skills that every successful human being possesses in their life.

Hmmm,

When a gifted,ADHD,LD,unlabeled kid goes onto adulthood,are they unsucessful if they are pompous,irritating,lacking social graces? Gosh I wish you would tell my boss that! Damn it if she isn’t pulling 75,000 a year,with a beautiful house,and a purebred shitzu.

In adulthood will they have to tolerate turning in a boring weekly spelling list,or book report? Will they be forced to socialize with others who are not on their wavelength? Will they be asked to do some of the strangest things all in the name of ,education? Maybe,but then again,there are many jobs,there are many choices. How many do they get while there in school? This,to me,is the biggest most detrimenatal thing about being gifted. No choice,do it our way or else. How frustrating is that for a kid who has other ideas? And a kid is only considered a pain if they are met with a teacher who secretly fears they are smarter then they are! Yeah,okay,I know they should have respect,they should learn that they are younger and the teacher is older,therefore do it their way or you are being disrespectful.

The labeling issue is all about judgment. I would be willing to bet the label is there,it isn’t called ADD yet,but the label is there. Just ask all of us on this board,or better yet ask his teacher,bet she has one for him already.

I know my son with ld will do great in the world.

His dad had a client staying with us for a few days. My 8 year old said “I really wanted to talk to MR R about the losses his company endured. I know if he is dad’s client he must be in insurance and they suffered alot of losses lately because of everything that has gone on.”

My son is constantly selling things on our street corner to raise money for the needy. He does this with out any prompting from me. I am more likely to respond “Oh no not again”

He is kind, well liked, EXTREMELY entreprenurial and tenacious. He has an average IQ yet I can’t shake the notion that he is gifted.

So throw out all the labels and really look at your child. Decide what he needs to be his best. Remediation and a chance to express his gifts. This goes for all children because I truely believe all children have at least one gift. Even if it is just the gift of making their Mom smile.

I couldn’t have said it better myself:-)

I don’t think someone who treats people poorly and makes a lot of money is successful. I don’t value money as a mark of being successful, however what I do value is friendships and helping others along the road called life. I feel pity for those who “seem” to have all the trappings of “worldly” success but they aren’t happy with themselves and their life.

As an adult I have dealt with people all the time who aren’t on my particular wavelength but I can adjust my reception to listen and learn from what they have to share with me…I have learned much from people who are cantakerous, pompous, arrogant, passive, anxious, neurotic…others who are a lot older than me and ones that are a lot younger than me, others who can’t talk and are recovering from strokes, brain tumors, dealing with relatives who have mental illness and alcoholism, and loved ones with cancer. I value all of my interactions with these diverse individuals and I have learned something from each of them.

I think everyone deserves respect whether they are young or old as what goes around comes around. I always try to think about the Golden Rule when I interact with people…There will always be opposition and diversity in all things that is how we learn and it is good.. I guess I am being introspective at this time as one of my loved ones is losing his battle against lymphoma… I will miss him dearly…

Absolutely Pattim,no one,or I am not saying that worldy possessions are the end all be all. I am saying that even cranky,pompous,irritating people have a place in this world. And when one become an adult,they get to choose which they want to be.

I am sorry to hear about your loved one,my prayers are with you friend.