I started a conversation with someone on another thread about this and now I’m really curious if I’m dillusional or if this is an idea. So, lets hear some pros and cons from everyone.
Many people are split on the inclusion issue, but we usually all agree that schools are not providing Individual Education. Actually, in theory, individual seems imposssible, or is it?
Whoever thought up the concept of education that required children from the age of 5-12 to sit still, concentrate and produce bins worth of papers within the confines of the same 4 walls for at least 6 hours a day with Mrs. Walters who’s ready to pull her hair out by noon. Who actually thought this was a good idea in educating Y0UNG children? College kids and adults can’t even do it.
How about this option, though, that I think meets almost everyone’s needs. In a nutshell, lets let everyone move around and do what they are comfortable doing at the level they are capable of doing it.
If done PROPERLY, the organization and concept of Jr. High and High School works beautifully especially for little kids!
I do not think that grouping children by all different levels of ability within one classroom works. It forces these children to take a ranking: smartest, almost the smartest all the way down to one who everyone snickers at when he reads outloud (in other words, the least smartest of the class).
So maybe, placing them with others WITHIN THEIR OWN RANGE of comparable abilities seems like a more logical approach. Then lets get them moving class to class! Mrs. Adams for language arts and reading, Mr. Jones for math, Mrs. Smith for science, etc. Yes, ESPECIALLY the first graders!
Just like “tracking” or “placement” in jr. high and high school EVERYONE (not just the IEP kids) gets the specialized instruction they need. Teachers can then specialize in the subject or subjects that they feel they are “gifted” or qualified to teach. No one is the wiser as to who is the “gifted and talented” group and who are the ones who are struggling. When I was in jr. high I had no idea that I was considered a struggler. I just got what I needed and the group of kids I was with changed all day long; since some needed more basic math, while others did not, etc. But in 1st through 6th it was made plain as day that i was in the dummy group. In jr. high, I felt just like everyone else and I thrived.
And the kids are moving, constantly changing their environment. Could this help with hyperactivity and attention problems? I think so. Let’s put those “ants in the pants” to use, get them moving around and not just at recess and gym.
We all know that gen ed teachers can’t be and aren’t qualified to teach every child as an individual. But that is what’s in my schools mission statement, “to educate every child as an individual.” This is not humanly possible with 25 individual children per classroom.
Lets stop kidding ourselves about having to be so politically correct about everything. IT IS DESTROYING US!
All I want for my children, along with every other child, is to get what they need to be a happy, independent, contributing member of society. Of course there will be a range as to what each will accomplish. But the old-fashioned classroom setting for elementary school is not working especially for our special needs kids. We are not allowing for independence in the current elementary classroom. Cookie cutter education.
Now, how about the ones who aren’t failing ENOUGH to be identified and graciously admitted to this SPECIAL EDUCATION COUNTRY CLUB? Who has time for them? Definitely not today’s gen ed teacher.
one of the trends is grouping within the classroom...
our school district was supposed to be instituting this but they never got past the testing part(as if the teachers couldnt tell where each kid was w/o 4 days testing twice a year)
ds’s 2nd grade teacher pulled it off wonderfully. She had the kids grouped by ability with generic names(orange, blue) She had an aide-each of them had a learning station-and then there were 3 other stations where they did worksheets, listened to story tapes, etc
She and the aide taught each group acc/to ability. My son thrived that year.
Right idea ,but I also realize how much more difficult it becomes as grades increase-or does it?
Like you said, if we would just ‘get out of the box’ and be willing to try…..
my understanding of why tracking was stopped was that kids couldnt get out of a track even if they improved. If johnny was in the weak track, he could start reading 3 grades above level and no one would notice and put him in the other class…..my understanding is that the in class groups was supposed to eliminate that as the teacher knew the kids and could put Johnny in blue for math, orange for reading and move him if necessary
Or We Could Insist....
…the Montessori school model would be mandatory everywhere. When kids are grouped three ages in one class, the concept of smart vs. stupid doesn’t have a chance. Kids work at their own pace; they take lessons in small groups or singly. If they need extra help, they can ask for it from their teachers (2 in a classroom) or another child. Every classroom has kids who are the oldest, kids in the middle, kids who are the youngest. The older ones help the younger; the younger learn just by osmosis from hanging around with the older.
Kids are free to move about the classroom and even go outside as they see fit. They’re free to choose when, in the course of a week, they’ll get this or that assignment finished. If they’re interested in the solar system, they can spend as much time as they want working on it. They learn how to budget their time, how to organize themselves. Mostly they learn about how they learn best. That’s different for everybody.
Some kids go out daily for sensory integration work, others leave the class to work with a speech & language pathologist, others go get extra help with a learning specialist. Some kids visit other classrooms for lessons. Some kids teach a lesson at a lower level class. Kids leave the class to listen to younger kids read to them. Teachers trained in Lindamood-Bell come in to work with children either alone or in small groups. All adults have LB training so it’s reinforced across the board with all language activities.
There’s no need to reinvent the wheel. Montessori put forth a wonderful system beginning way back in 1907. Public schools currently have borrowed little sections of it, a few cities have public Montessori schools but most of them are not yet of the same caliber as the private. This is mostly because they’ve taken public school teachers and sent them for retraining; many didn’t want to change so are only grudgingly going along with it. It’s not a program that can be done piecemeal - it must be all or nothing.
But it works. It works very well. It’s a fully integrated, well-thought out system. It’s been quietly humming along for nearly 100 years doing exactly what everyone is now calling for in their quest for a “modern, new” kind of school.. Maria Montessori recognized a full century ago that children learn in different ways, at different rates, and have different motivational factors from each other. They’re individuals and she developed an educational program that recognizes this.
But hey, she was an individual herself - the first female medical doctor of Italy.
Re: who's with me on this? or maybe i need sleep
Inclusion was devised to do away with ability grouping because of stigmas attached. I remember being in reading groups that the kids knew who were the good readers, mediocre and “dumb”. Having different ability levels in the same classroom allows children to be tolerant of differences, learn that everyone is different and all children learn differently. This concept needs to be modeled by the teacher first though and often general ed teachers talk about how many “IEP” kids they have and how difficult it is. The kids pick up on this.
Inclusion can work when done with an open mind and out of the box thinking. I am an early childhood educator and have always felt that elementary schools need to adopt early childhood theory. Learning stations around the room. Children having options of working in group or alone. Teacher monitoring the stations and offering help when needed. Individualizing education. The first, second and third grade classrooms should look like a preschool or kindergarten classroom. The teacher should facilitate learning through creative and open ended activities. As a preschool teacher, I was able to individualize learning for 15-18 children. It took a lot of planning and effort but was worth it. I especially liked it when I had children in my class for 2 years then I was able to really know thier learning style, strengths and weaknesses.
I am also an advocate for the program meeting the needs of the children not children meeting the needs of the program. Thus, each year, the teacher needs to reevaluate her methods and change them for the children in her class. This is not seen in the el ed classes. If they do not fit the mold, too bad.
Teaching is a difficult job. And it is not the programs offered or how children are grouped. Success for all children rests in the hands of the teacher. An awesome and often overwhelming experience and unfortunately, some teachers enter the field for reasons other than educating our children.
Re: Or We Could Insist....
Montessori methods would work wonderfully in all classrooms and with most kids. Combination of montessori and traditional methods would work wonders! But montessori requires that teachers think out of the box!
Jean
Moving from class to class isn't ideal
Our kids have a half day in English and a half day in French in elementary school. Moving classes just once a day is very time consuming and difficult for some children with learning difficulties. It takes organization to gather up your supplies (pencils, ruler, markers, books,etc) line up and move to another room. Some kids don’t make transitions easily and this makes extra friction between them and the teacher. Some kids don’t like sharing their desks with the other group. They get upset if their desk is left dirty or kleenex has been stolen, etc. Books and supplies get lost and missplaced. I can’t imagine the kids at this age moving every period like they do in high school, half the teaching day would be lost to moving from class to class and getting settled.
Our teachers complain that now that they see two groups a day, they are seeing 50 - 60 kids a day instead of 25 - 30. It takes them longer to get to know the kids and find out what their learning styles and difficulties are. Often on this board I hear parents complain that the teacher doesn’t know their child, hasn’t read the iep, doesn’t remember all the details that you explained about the child’s learning differences. This will get 5 times worse if teachers see 5 groups of students a day.
I think your idea is great in theory but in practice I think you would be very disappointed with the results.
Re: Or We Could Insist....
Re: Montessori schools
I was told by my daughter’s tutor that they are NOT the place for LD students. Too much freedom, not enough structure. She says these kids need, structure, structure and more structure.
She also said my daughter would excel in the things she loved and was good at and would ignore/fail in the things she wasn’t.
I don’t know - it sounds like a good program - but since my tutor taught my daughter to read (LMB), I have a high opinion of her advice. :).
Re: Or We Could Insist....
Many people are confused about Montessori because they’re not familiar enough with it. There IS freedom but within a highly structured environment. Students have daily and weekly requirements to fulfill. It’s true, though, that there’s an occasional Montessori school that’s too unstructured. Most of the schools that include a full elementary program are strong programs though.
The school I’m associated with has many kids with LD’s. The program is tailored to their individual needs. That’s why parents of kids with LD’s like Montessori - they know they’re getting teachers who will carefully observe every child to learn how he or she learns best and then devise a program for that child. Montessori teachers also strongly believe in open communication with parents and will listen to the parent and ask questions.
I know this school.
Yes,I know,here I go again about my boys school.
My boys for those who don’t already know are ADHD/Gifted/LD.
They attend a private school that has 22 kids total in the whole school.The school is designed specificly for kids with ADHD or LD. It is a college prep school. It is basicly a one room school house. 2nd thru 12th grades. All ages are together in one room. There are two teachers. My two boys ,have strengths in areas such as science,history,like most lders. Anyway their strengths and weaknesses vary from one extreme to another. They learn at their own level. They are instructed on the very same information,and the expectations vary depending on your level of achievment. Because their are only 22 kids the teacher’s are able to spend one on one time with a child who might need it and less time in areas they don’t. Basicly it is a hodge podge of disabilities,from dyslexia asperger’s,ADHD. My oldest had a 2nd grade math level in 5th grade his first year there. He learned on the 2nd grade level and spent one on one during math time with his teacher.In reading he is way above grade level so he spends time at the high school level,and is expected to produce high school level reading assignments,unfortunately this is also together with writing,another one of his problem areas,so he is allowed to dictate,or tape reports. Everyone has some type of LD,no one really cares. It is probably the most freeing enviorment for my two kids. It is for me! Accomodations come naturally,strategies are a given,it isn’t something you have to fight for.
The other aspect of varying age grouping is the social skills aspect. As a lot of lder’s have social skills difficulties,they might be more mature or immature then their particular age group. Again this isn’t an issue. During breaks and recess they naturally migrate to what ever social development fits best. Then they also have models to develop social skills. These kids are naturally tolerant,as a matter of fact most of the students there will tell you this is the first time they didn’t feel different.
My children have been at this school for two years now. It is truely a part of the family,we fully intend on them continuing right on through til college.They are well adjusted,they recieve what they need to progress,even excel.I have more discussions with the boys teacher in one day,then years with other ones.
Inclusion,it means being a part of something. It doesn’t mean being placed in a position to feel less.To me,THIS is inclusion,in the purest sense of the word.
Re: Moving from class to class isn't ideal
I don’t think any program will work, unless all teachers are willing to educate themselves and learn that not all children learn the same way.To many teachers want to supply the information and have the children learn. So once again the triangles don’t fit in the square box.
how did your school begin?
I am so curious about the history of your boys’ school. Everytime you talk about it, it seems like the ideal environment for LD children.
How did this come about? Is it a grassroots thing, a private school and how did it get off the ground and running? And I assume it is an accredited school.
With 22 total students, is it an admittance process that you go through to get in?
Did you start out in the public schools and then end up pulling them out?
I would love to be able to just pull my sons out and find an ideal place. I am hesitant because the private places that I have looked into still encompass the ED kids along with the LD and I just don’t feel my sons would get what they need there since behavior is not an issue with them.
I don’t trust myself enough to homeschool. I feel if I knew what I was doing help an LD child, my kids would already be more successful than they are right now. It’s just a matter of finding the right fit, the right environment and the right professionals. I’m just not aware of anything as wonderful as what you have found in my area. But maybe I’m not looking for the right thing?
Re: how did your school begin?
Dr. Stark started out as a science teacher in this school. The owner,retired and he bought the school from her. This was in the early 70’s. He is diagnosed dyslexic,and self proclaimed ADHD. He lessened the number of students that he admitted as he took over the school,because he feels this number is MAX. To being able to spend individual time with each child. He sometimes say’s it is too much. He first had a desire to help kids,having already gone through it himself,then he recieved training in special education. He is trained in LMB,FFW,and a program out of Kansas ,I believe. This is an old house turned into a one room school house. It is pretty much a cooperative effort.
But the beauty of this school can be lost if one has a preconvieced notion of what a school is supposed to be like. It starts at,or around 9AM,it is supposed to end around 3;30,generally it doesn’t. But at any rate the kids don’t want to hurry home anyway. To accomodate our children,the parents have got to accomodate the teacher. Often he wants to just talk to your kid. Often the kid just wants to talk to him. He gives them this time. You wait..He is available anytime. The kid has his home phone number,and my oldest has called him at home during winter breaks! He stays at school sometimes into the evening. He tries not to turn anyone away. The application process? They must have an above average intelligence,this doesn’t mean the IQ score on their last eval. It is what DR Stark feels. He talks to the kid. Other then that it is first come first served. I know how truely fortunate to have found this man. He feels fortunate to have found my kids:-) I talked to him during the last school year,and tried to convince him to open another school across town. He accepts state voucher’s so their are literally thousands of students who need him. He smiled and said,absolutely not. How could I be in two places at once? He needs to bottle his recipe,I honestly don’t know of any other school in my area. He basicly says,the trick is to know the kid. I agree..
Re: how did your school begin?
Oh, Socks, I wish we could bottle him!!! I would love my son to have something like this. Unfort. this model is highly dependent upon the individual—not something that can be institutionalized. It is his “calling”.
We are continuing to see positive changes from IM. Today my son was humming the Star Spangle Banner. He has never hummed or sang in his life.
Beth
Sounds good to me. I don’t know if it will work, but it sounds good.