is this REASONABLE?

Yes it is reasonable- how quickly he gets there may depend on a number of things including how far behind he is and what his processing issues are. He has slow processing speed yes? I am trying to remember from that long list of scores you posted earlier. So fluency may develop slowly but accuracy should come right along with good instruction. Once he is accurate, a specific focus on fluency might be beneficial. However- grade level reading is certainly within his grasp.

Robin

There’s almost no way to answer such a good question without knowing your child and knowing more about what is causing your son to read below grade level. It is true that in life we all do some things better than others. I read much better than does my husband. He calculates much better than I do. Could I be remediated to the point where I was as good at math as is he? Is there instruction he could be given to help him read as well as I do?

The other issue is what constitutes proper instruction? No one really knows the answer to that and the answer would vary from child to child. There are so many different programs to choose from and no one of them works well for every child.

My own son is dyslexic and has been given tremendous remediation. He can read now but it’s unlikely that -given the way he reads- he will ever read as fast as many other students his age. Nature seems to have intended him to be a slow and plodding reader but he does understand what he is reading nicely.

My greatest concern is that when a student does not read on the same level as the others in his class that student needs to be given extra time to read and take tests, extra time to do the assigned reading etc.

On January 10, 2002 President Bush signed the “No Child Left Behind Act”. He made some strong statements. Among them “Some say it is unfair to hold disadvantaged children to rigorous standards. I say it is discrimination to require anything less. It is the soft bigotry of low expectations.”
My response to you is, why lower the expectation of reading to an appropriate level? Give him every opportunity through appropriate programs to achieve to his ability, just like any other child. Yeah, our kids need to get there a different way because they learn different, but they should be given that opportunity regardless. Lowering the expectaions make is easier for the school, but not for your child in the long run.

It isn’t reasonable to expect people to be able to predict the future. It is reasonable to expect some intervention to make it possible or more likely for a kiddo to reach grade level with reading.

But — the bottom line is, reasonable doesn’t matter one whit. Unless of course your idea of a good time is beating your head against a brick wall (but at least you know it’s always there so you know what the outcome will be), “reasonableness” doesn’t enter into getting what your kid needs. YOu can be as right about what is reasonable as you want… but if the teaching isn’t being provided it’s not going to happen. And in the meantime, are accommodations happening to make up for that gap in the skills so that content areas are being learned?

I sure know where you are coming from. It does seem like schools like to tell you it isn’t their teaching that is the problem, it is your expectations. I had the same thing happen to me when my son was finishing first grade as a nonreader. I had the school psychologist tell me basically that my husband and I had not accepted that we had a child with a disability (because we both had Phds). I was so mad I couldn’t see straight. It was then I found this site and started working with my son.

What I would say is that it is reasonable to expect that the school will use an appropriate methodology for an LD child. My school was not. But I don’t think outcomes can be predicted. We have done a lot of intervention privately and our son still does not read at grade level. (He is about a year behind—early third grade but is going into fourth grade).I have no doubt he would not be reading at all if I had left it to the school but his deficits have proved more debilitating than I had intitally thought. My son also has an average IQ but visual processing, auditory processing, and word retrieval issues are a devastating combination.

Beth

It really doesn’t matter what parents think(and I agree that we should expect grade level reading for most kids with average or above IQs)…in our state(MA), the high-stakes testing in math and English apply to ALL 10th graders who want a hs diploma, and all of a sudden the schools are MUCH more attentive to reading levels in early elementary grades, regardless of the reason for the reading delay.

The reason for our conversation about expectations is that I seemed to be the only one at the IEP meeting who thought having a child not learn to read in first grade was indicative that we needed to do something differently. True to form, the school persisted on using the same ineffective programming for my son until we had a staff change.

We also have high stakes testing in Florida. There is more emphasis on writing than before. They also teach to the test a lot.

Beth

IQ has tested at 106-110. He is reading a little over a year below grade level. Entering 5th grade. He did qualify for resource intervention but its called tutorial. He went 20 min each am to work on papers he hadnt finished, the weeks spelling list, etc There were 4/5 in his group, all with different issues and he was the strongest…honestly, I questionned if he was losing more being out of class than he was gaining since so little actual teaching was done. It did wonders for his selfesteem though as he was on top for a change!

There WAS reading resource available, but what the teacher told me-and I 100% believe her-is that my son simply read too well. THOSE kids were 2-3 yrs behind and reading with them would not benefit my son.

They can only do so much.Its not right and when its your child, it stings. But they have to take the money they have and decide “who to leave behind”. Not an easy decision-I wouldnt want it!

By all means get him all the help from the school that you can but…at some point, I came to a slow acceptance of the way things are. I havent given up-we began Phono-graphix yesterday :)-but I have a C student who gets an occassional D. He isn’t his older brothers(both gifted). College may not be an option. But we’ve both been happier loosening up a bit-with me helping, not ‘fixing’.

And it took me years to get here! Good luck.

This is a most astute comment:

“And in the meantime, are accommodations happening to make up for that gap in the skills so that content areas are being learned?”

The only true gains in reading my son has made was from private tutoring.

We are doing phonographix now since I was fortunate enough to find a wonderful teacher trained in that technique. She was able to identify right away that his difficulty was with short vowels. She worked intensley with him for about 8 hours and I was seeing a light go on for him. He and I will keep reviewing his areas of difficulty and reading.

He had the same teacher at school for 2 yrs. and she kept doing the same low level boring books over and over and he was not making much progress and didn’t like it. She refused even when I requested to try different books or another technique. That was when I got a reading tutor.

If you can find a good reading teacher who can determine the basis of his difficulity you will have a way to help him see the piece of his puzzel that is missing.

I don’t expect my son will be a whiz reader however, he must learn to read and comprehend to have a decent future.

Good luck.

I’m with you Jackie. I think much of LD centers around the phrase formed on these boards dystechia.

We must hold ourselves and our schools to higher standards. This does not meaning holder children to higher standards and expecting them to just somehow pull themselves up by their bootstraps and figure it out. Children can learn to read. IF TAUGHT.
Proof to this is the many dyslexic adults walking around that somehow managed to learn to read and even excel in the real world.

I have seen schools try the more of the same approach over and over again.
As parents I don’t think we can wait for the schools to get it. We have to understand our childrens strengths and weaknesses and find a way to use whatever resources we can to get these children the help they need. There is so much interesting research available about brain plasticity and the forming of new neural pathways. School administrators need to form a few new neural pathways to understand that remediation must be at least attempted.

I thought it was the decade of the brain. Oh, that was the ninetys, and the other Bush.

Lulu,

I’ll have to agree with all the posts that said “it depends on the child”. Beth and I talk a lot by email since our kids have a couple of issues in common like APD. What I find as a mother and teacher is that even the best methods will not necessarily bring EVERY child up to grade level in reading. Beth and her husband are highly educated and she has studied and pursued the “best” outside therapies. She told you above that her son is still reading below grade level and he actually had a better trained LD teacher this year, too.

My child also has an IQ around 106. What I seem to be seeing often is that gifted LD kids have a much better shot at compensating and bringing up the scores than do average kids. Average kids always seem to be “catching up”. I do think kids that are slow processors may always be a little behind. I agree with whoever said, “Be sure accomodations are in place for these kids”. I wish I could tell you that ALL kids can be “cured” of reading disabilities, but my professional and personal experience tells me that it is not true.

Marion made some really great points. We need to quit comparing our kids to the “average” or “grade level”. Why put them in a little box that public education dictates. Find your child’s strengths or talents and try to develop those rather than only focusing on the weaknesses all the time. Some of us may just have to homeschool eventually so our kids’ self-esteem won’t be killed in the public schools.

I do think it is important to have high expectations and get the best therapy possible. But there are no guarantees, I’m sad to say.

Janis

Reed Martin a special educational attorney,which by the way has an awsome site wrote a great article on exactly why your expectations are very reasonable and how to get the IEP goals reflective of this. I don’t know if you can still get it from his site,but my webpage has a link to this article.

Http://exoage.com/socksandfriends
Go to the link page,then to the IEP tips page,and click on the link that says goal setting. Should provide you with a little more muscle in the legal sense:-)

socks,

I haven’t read the site, but the reason teachers can no longer put grade levels on IEP’s for present level and goals is because of a lawsuit for that very reason…parents demanded a one year increase and the school had put less than one year. That one lawsuit has caused very vague goals for all the rest of us! A child with processing problems will NOT always be able to make that much progress in one year, especially a young child. Of course, one who is 5 years behind can make more than one year’s progress in a year given the right amount of intensive instruction. I still say it depends on many factors and one year may or may not be reasonable.

Janis

That link isn’t working, socks.

Janis

Read the article Janis.

Sorry for my mispellings:-)
http://expage.com/socksandfriends

I’m very familiar with the Shannon Carter case. All I’m saying is that an IEP is supposed to be INDIVIDUALIZED, and to make the assumption that every child will achieve one year of growth every year is extremely optimistic, to say the least. As I said before, this lawsuit caused us to be told we CANNOT any longer give PLP in grade level or a goal in grade level. Because if we did, we’d have to put one year’s growth and some children will NOT make that much growth. I am totally on top of the best reading methods and have the most supportive school for my child that you could ask for, and she did NOT make a full year’s growth in reading this year. And in this case, it’s not the school’s fault. She learned at the rate that was right for her. She will repeat first grade next fall as I feel that first grade is the most critical year of a child’s entire education.

Janis

I find this discussion about the fact that IEPs must be vague because of a lawsuit very interesting.

When I worked as a nurse we always had to be very specific with very specific goals and very specific interventions. Vague documentation would have gotten us sued because the courts aways assumed that which was not documented was not done.

I don’t know what this means. I just wonder what would happen if someone went to the courts with a big lawsuit after being denied access to scientificly supported teaching techniques. If that person documented and provided evidence that the techniques being used at a school were ineffective. If there was further documentation that despite requests very little was being done to help the child get a proper education.

I wonder if schools would be forced to use better programs and to document actual interventions with actual goals.

It just seems all upside down to me. I don’t think we have heard the last of this. I think all this vague documentation that the schools have adopted is going to come back to haunt them.

Courts respond well to expert witnesses and scientific data.

Linda,

I’m with you on that. I’d rather show 4 months progress than have to write some stupid goal that the child will make inferences from a reading passage and measured by teacher observation. Now what does that tell you? Nothing. It’s not really measurable since you aren’t putting in a level to be attained. It ought to say “increase comprehension skills to the 4.9 grade level”. That’s what we used to put before the lawsuit. (I’m glad the girl finally got appropriate instruction, I just hate the consequences.)

Honestly, though, special educators for the most part are simply ignorant of the techniques that work. The teachers we see on this site are an exception for the most part. My child’s principal and LD teacher went to the Lindamood Bell V/V workshop this week (at my request) and get this…they were the only two there from the state of NC (where it was held)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did not go becuase a very good person is lending me the training videos and my school would not pay for the workshops. See, the best techniques have expensive training, and NO teachers (other than ours) from NC attended the first LB training in this state! (Now I should say that I don’t know who was at LiPS and Seeing Stars, so there might have been someone there). So I am going to have to say, it’s not the teacher’s fault in many cases. The states must decide whether they are going to put the extra money into special ed. to train teachers and implement the really good programs…and when taxes must be raised to do so, well, you know what that means! Taxpayers aren’t really all that interested in providing the “best” education because it will cost them.

One more controversial statement and then I’ll go…I’m ready for vouchers. I wish someone would give me the $5000 the state allots for my child and let ME decide what education I want to provide with that money. Most of us could get better remediation than the schools provide in most cases.

Janis

Hello Linda F,
I too am a practcing nurse in a hospital. I have often thought of how our documentation (nurses notes, the patients chart ect) are legal documents. Like IEP’s. The state comes once a year and reviews charts, policies, pracitices, documentation, outcomes ect to make sure things are as they should be. Legally speaking. Run by regulations. So are IEP’s. I have often thought that there should also be committees run by the states to overlook the IEP’s to make sure these legal documents are being adhered to and written in accordance with the law. We know that many of them are not.
Also, along the reasonable goal thing….Goals are something to strive for. All of us know (as parents of children in special education) that they are not neccesarily achieved in the time frame set forth. That is why they are reveiwed annually. If they are not met, of course it should be discussed as to why not. The first thing to look at is the program. New goals are made and old ones achieved or updated every year in IEP’s. I see no reason for this Mom who asked the original question not to strive for her child ‘s goal. The answer should not be too quickly to “lower the expectations”. I don’t know how old this child is, but I do know one thing. This Mom said she feels he can do it. I have learned how intuitive Moms are, and how important it is to follow that. She knows her child best. Check to see if the program is appropriate and FOLLOWED correctly before lowering any expectaions. Give the child the chance to learn to his potential, just like any other child. Not every child will be the best reader, the fastest reader whether they are in general education or special education. The key is to give every child the chance to reach their potential.

Gee guys,I couldn’t have said it any better:-)
From one more nurse out there!

I”m with you on the vouchers. It the public schools had to compete with private schools for funds they might shape up.
I have this weird notion that it is better to actually remediate kids and do the best we can to catch them up to the rest of the class through teaching methods that work and more intense therapies to address deficits. Sounds expensive to some but programs that work are simply more efficient than programs that don’t.
Keeping a child in sped for their entire school career is not cheap. I know a few kids with variable deficits who have been remediated to the point of being taken off an IEP. My son is close to being one of them. I feel it is within his grasp and I know I can help him get there. These kids do not have gifted IQs but once they were remediated they seemed to soar. Now that is cost effective.
When I worked as a nurse good patient care was always cost effective. Patients left the hospital sooner, less law suits. I appreciate the work of Demming and Juran both pioneers in the science of the cost benefits of quality.
I think a large part of the problem is the massive bureacracy involved with public education. I was at a school board meeting last night and I kept thinking “My god the lunatics have taken over the assylum.”

It was very political. Only the few parents in the audience were addressing what was best for the children. It made me quite sad.

And we come from what is considered a great school district.

Yes, I fully agree. The main things is, we DO have state audits. BUT guess who does them? Teams made up of special ed. directors form other districts mostly! Now what does that tell you? The “rules” are made at the federal level and then the states interpret and dictate what the local districts do. Our district is conscientious and gets a state person to come in most years to tell us the new “rules” that have come about due to the latest wave of lawsuits. I’m really sick of the whole thing.

Oh, and if I wasn’t clear, I’m not at all against Lulu personally having a goal for one year increase in skills. I will probably always have that on my child’s IEP. But I’m not going to pitch a fit and threaten to sue the school if she doesn’t meet that goal either. BUT some parents WILL, so that is why we currently aren’t supposed to do it. I’m sure something will come down to reverse it eventually. It just takes awhile for people to realize what has happened.

The government rarely takes the cost effective approach unfortunately.

Janis

It is a bearucracy,and the sadesst part is the kids getting even a close proximity of a decent education in the arena of special education is the one’s who’s parents who “pitch a fit”. The one’s who wade through all that red tape,the one’s who insist on measurable data.

IN previous post a case is discussed called the Shannon Carter Case. This was a due process case that changed special education. Unfortunately many district try and protect themselves from being sued,and in essence parents are ultimatley to blame for actually having the nerve and fortitude to finally go to court over what the system did to their kids. Ironicly a lot of people do not realize that in this particular case,what wound up happening is the state protection and advocacy agency took over this case and continued on for the benefit of other students. It changed the way educators would have to look at how they allow kids who are struggling to continue without proper evaluation,and proper remediation. Unfortunately it also brough on a attempt from districts to CYA,all in the name of educating our kids.
Here is some snipets of facts from the attorney who helped trial this case,Peter Wright,who is also by the way DYSLEXIC!.
I will give the address to the article if one would like to read this case and REALLY know what happened.

Carter facts: In 1983, Shannon Carter was demonstrating significant academic problems and her parents requested a special ed evaluation. Emory and Elaine Carter were told by the school’s evaluator that their daughter, Shannon was lazy, unmotivated and a slow learner. Her parents were instructed to make her work harder. Shannon’s parents followed these directions. Despite this pressure, Shannon continued to bring home poor grades.

Finally, feeling worthless and hopeless about the future, sixteen year old Shannon took an overdose. Alarmed at the seriousness of their daughter’s depression, Mr. and Mrs. Carter contacted a licensed clinical social worker for help. In 1985, the social worker, who was well-versed in the field of learning disabilities and attention deficit disorder, changed Shannon’s life.

She suspected that Shannon had a learning disability and an attention deficit disorder. Her provisional diagnosis was confirmed by independent private sector testing and was later corroborated by subsequent testing conducted by a school system evaluator.

However, by the time these evaluations were completed, Shannon had fallen many years behind her peer group academically and was functionally illiterate. To rectify the problem and remediate Shannon, Florence County School District Four proposed placing Shannon into an itinerant special education program three hours a week.

All of the parents’ experts insisted that Shannon was so far behind academically that she needed a self-contained classroom that would provide intensive remediation in order to have any chance of catching up with her peers. School District Four did not have a self-contained program for LD youngsters, although neighboring public school districts did.

Despite requests from the Carters that Shannon be educated at one of the neighboring schools where she could have appropriate remediation, District Four continued to propose the itinerant program. The school’s proposed IEP would have Shannon making approximately one-half year of educational gain after an entire year of education. This proposal would ensure that Shannon would continue to fall further and further behind her peer group, despite the fact that she had average to above average intellectual ability.

In essence, District Four told the parents to “take it or leave it.” The line had been drawn in the sand.

The parents requested a Due Process Hearing to require that Shannon be provided a self-contained classroom, either in a neighboring day school or at Trident Academy, a special education school in Mt. Pleasant, S.C.

The special education due process hearing was held on August 20, 1985. The Carters lost, but they refused to keep their daughter in a program where she would continue to fall further behind. With anxiety and sadness, Mr. and Mrs. Carter finally decided to send Shannon away from home in order that she could obtain an appropriate education.

In September, 1985 Shannon entered Trident Academy over a hundred miles away from her home in tiny Timmonsville, S.C. Three years later, while litigation was still pending, she graduated from Trident. During those three years at Trident, Shannon had made remarkable progress-from being functionally illiterate to reading at the twelfth grade level.

After the Due Process Hearing the parents appealed to a Reviewing Officer. The Reviewing Officer upheld the Hearing Officer’s decision against Shannon.

The Carter’s filed suit on Shannon’s behalf in the U. S. District Court in Florence, South Carolina. The Judge dismissed their case asserting that the statute of limitations had expired. Three times at bat, three strikeouts. Bruce Davis, Florence County School District Four counsel at the Due Process Hearing, who continued as counsel through the Supreme Court, had been very successful.

Mr. and Mrs. Carter were discouraged; however Shannon was receiving an excellent education. The South Carolina Protection and Advocacy Office, which had become involved just after the Due Process Hearing, continued to press forward with an appeal to the U. S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, asserting that the statute of limitations had not expired.

The Protection and Advocacy Office’s position was vindicated as a result of another Fourth Circuit decision, known as Schimmel, to be discussed later, and the case was reinstated. This was Shannon’s first victory and simply allowed the case to go forward to trial!

At trial, Florence County School District Four continued to assert that their proposed itinerant program, in which Shannon would fall further and further behind, was appropriate. After hearing evidence, including evidence from experts he appointed to evaluate the programs, the Judge described District Four’s proposed program as “wholly inadequate.” The Court ruled in Shannon’s favor and directed that the Carters be reimbursed for the costs of Shannon’s education at Trident Academy.

Florence County School District Four appealed to the U. S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. Changing strategies, District Four now asserted that they should not be required to reimburse the Carters for Shannon’s education because Trident Academy was not on the state’s list of approved special education schools, and Trident had some staff that were not certified. In their appeal, Bruce Davis and Florence County School District Four relied heavily upon the earlier Fourth Circuit Schimmel decision and the Second Circuit Tucker decisions that stated that parents could not be reimbursed for private placements into schools that are not on the states “approved list.”

The Fourth Circuit heard oral argument on September 30, 1991 and rendered their decision on November 26, 1991. The Fourth Circuit affirmed the decision of District Court Judge Houck and took the Second Circuit to task for its misplaced reliance upon an earlier Fourth Circuit case, known as Schimmel.

The Fourth Circuit and U. S. States Supreme Court: Now that you have a clear, unbiased understanding of the facts in Carter, I will continue with preparation for oral argument before the Fourth Circuit. First, let me explain the process of appeal.

The Future: Lines may no longer be drawn in the sand; children shall learn how to read, write and do arithmetic and, in the end, be contributing self-sufficient functioning members of society, not drop-outs with emotional baggage. The decision is economically sound; that is what Congress intended in the legislative history. The U. S. Supreme Court stated that the schools must fulfill the intent of Congress. If Congress did not provide the dollars they said they would provide, the special ed children should not become the victims of that failure; it is still mandated that the services must be provided, and don’t blame the children and their parents for seeking an appropriate education! That is the rule of Carter!

http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/Carter_The_Untold_Story.html

I guess my situation is different in some ways. But I am getting what I want for my child by meeting with the principal, LD teacher, and SLP at her school and introducing them to methods that they did not know about. Because I go about it in a helpful, non-threatening way, they are more receptive to my ideas. I took the principal and LD teacher with me to a Phono-Graphix workshop in April…yep, gave them free (frequent flyer) plane tickets. That’ll usually get someone somewhere! So now two people at the school have PG training. I also got them interested in Lindamood Bell and we signed up for Visualizing and Verbalizing. They went this week and I backed out as someone offered me the training videos. Saw them (principal and teacher) yesterday and they were EXCITED about LB and thanked me so much for telling them about it. The SLP will borrow the LiPS and V/V videos from me and have an inservice for her SLP staff.

All I’m saying is I understand some schools are hard to work with. I should know as I’ve been in education for 25 years. I have also seen parents who were threatening to the school get things they asked for…usually more time in a poor resource program, or inclusion when the child really needed remediation! But the bottom line is, parents who are supportive and kind have a better chance of having the teacher love their child and try to do all she/he can for him/her. I have NO adversarial relationships with my students parents because they KNOW I care about their children. They trust me which is a little scary as I’ve only recently learned of some of the most valuable instructional tools…but everything I learned was on my own and all the training I’ve pursued has been at my own expense. I’m not sure it is fair to expect that of all teachers.

I do not know the answer. It needs to come from federal law, though. My state is working on an exciting pilot project using programs like Language! and Wilson which is extremely encouraging. That is the only way those techniques will filter down to local districts..if the state proves they work and mandates the training and use of them. I’m not holding my breath as it would be a major miracle and one that would have a profound, positive effect on the education of LD children. If it happens, NC will be a leader in special ed.

One more thought abotu bad schools…once a parent sees that the special ed. program is bad and the relationships become adversarial, I would pull my child out. Even though kids like Shannon finally get help, who knows what terrible damage was done to that child’s self-esteem all those years she languished behind the others in her classes. It is not worth it.

A funny aside…when I saw the principal yesterday he was in a meeting, but whispered to me that he wanted to offer me a half-time job for next year! He couldn’t give me the details as other people were around, and I think it is too close to school beginning for me to resign my current job, but it would be fun to work with people who are willing and open to learning the “best”methods!

I’m leaving for the beach today! Y’all have a great 4th!

Janis

n/t

You are most fortunate to have a school that is open to new ideas and your input. Not all of us have been that fortunate I have been treated like I don’t have a clue what I am talking about, I am in denial that my son has a problem and that it is his fault he is behind grade level.

Count your blessings.

Janis’ daughter is in a charter school which I think helps because there is less of a bureaucratic mindset. I don’t think it hurts either that she is trained in special education herself and thus can approach the school as a peer instead of merely as a parent. It also doesn’t hurt that she goes way out of her way to assist them—giving them her frequent flyer miles to attend conferences, for example.

In other words, this may be a hard situation for the rest of us to duplicate!!

Beth

… but basically in Shannon Carter’s case they were perfectly happy to say ahead of time that X progress was good enough, *and* they weren’t providing appropriate services to make the kind of progress that was appropriate for her.
IEPs at the expensive private school where I taught never pretended to project progress. They’re “worse” than vague about that — they don’t even try. They *are*, however, very specific about saying “okay, this is Sally Student’s specific disability, and this is the specific way we’re going to address it and here are the goals we are going to try to achieve this year.” No grade levels — but specific skills (will learn to read closed, open and silent e words in isolation and in context, etc.). And sometimes we get through them and sometimes we don’t because there are just so many variables involved.
I’m not surprised that schools have passed down edicts for vagueness in IEPs then… but that really wasn’t the Shannon Carter case’s fault. (And grade levels are not good numbers to work with anyway — they’re easy to misunderstand and don’t really mean much))

And may god bless and keep teacher’s like you:-) Who said anything about threatening? I have been to many IEP’s as an advocate and a parent,got what the KID needed and everyone left smiling. If I ever gave the impression that one should go into a meeting screaming about, sueing someone,one would not get too far! BUT,if one goes into a meeting with full knowledge of the rights and ways to secure services,then one will get what their kid needs:-)
Janis have a great time at the beach!

>BUT,if one goes into a meeting with full knowledge of the rights and ways to secure services,then one will get what their kid needs:-)<

NOT in my district! You must live in OZ. How can I move there? I have always been knowledgeable, polite etc. I have asked them for advice etc. I have brought in articles. I have brought in a very knowledgeable friendly pediatric neuro-pscyologist eduated at Yale and no one budged one iota until the legal person finally showed up at their door! Even parents who are teachers are treated like morons here. It is a sad state of affairs and the kids are the ones who suffer.

Ahhh,no,no,no,I didn’t say a legal person might NEED to show up.BUt didn’t you keep smiling politely when they did:-)

Robin- are you in CT?

l

how sad huh?

Hi, Socks! This is a reply a week after your post, but I did want to thank you for your kind comments! I think we are on the same page! (And we had a great week at the beach! Why do vacations have to pass by so fast?!)

Janis

No. I am in Ca.