Lindamood Bell- quick decision needed

I answered on the other board.

Go! Go! Go!
They work miracles. Get as much tutoring as you can during the summer. It will pay off bigtime in the fall. My biggest regret is that I found them at the end of summer. If I had found them 3 months earlier, my son could have started 4th grade as a reader, instead we had to go 1 hour per week, 5 times a day for 120 hours. We started in september and by the end of december he was reading signs. Before that he could not read phonetically at all.
Go Go Go!

How long has the clinic been there? My one warning would be I checked into the new clininc in London and all the clinicians had only just been trained and when I was waiting in reception area I talked to two of kids going there. Because of lack of space they were sharing a room and the older girl complained that the 9 year old boy distracted her in lessons.
I felt those kids weren’t getting their money’s worth even though 15 yr old girl was very excited about her progress after only one week.
Our tutour had only the training course and tapes to help her but I felt she was no worse than that particular clininc and in many ways better.
As long as you’ve got experienced clinicians, an established clinic go for it.
I didn’t dare really hope for a miracle. I was prepared to accept whatever I got, but this WAS what my son needed and it feelslike a miracle to us. I don’t think you’ll regret the money.

How long has the clinic been there? My one warning would be I checked into the new clininc in London and all the clinicians had only just been trained and when I was waiting in reception area I talked to two of kids going there. Because of lack of space they were sharing a room and the older girl complained that the 9 year old boy distracted her in lessons.
I felt those kids weren’t getting their money’s worth even though 15 yr old girl was very excited about her progress after only one week.
Our tutour had only the training course and tapes to help her but I felt she was no worse than that particular clininc and in many ways better.
As long as you’ve got experienced clinicians, an established clinic go for it.
I didn’t dare really hope for a miracle. I was prepared to accept whatever I got, but this WAS what my son needed and it feelslike a miracle to us. I don’t think you’ll regret the money.

I am concerned about the money in the fact that, will I be sold a line when I meet with them on Monday? I’ve already bought the vision therapy thing. Lots of money, lots of time little to no valid results.

I’m just so skiddish about falling for another gimmick. I also worry about taking away his summer. It’s the only time during the year when things are actually relaxed and anxiety is not running rampant in our house.

This is why I’m asking the question… there seem to be so many programs out there. This one seems from what I’ve read to be highly regarded but I wanted to double check. The advise I’ve received from this board has been very sensible thus far.

The cost doesn’t bother me if it really works (at least as well as the tutoring we’ve been doing) because if we can reduce the number of years of tutoring, or perhaps even years of psychotherapy b/c my anxious child gets some skills sooner its worth it. (It may pay for itself given what his therapist costs ! LOL)

Karen I answered on the other board too, but LMB is a well documented and researched program. They are FOR REAL. I agree I would want to know how long the instructor has been teaching it. With the right LMB tutor they will customize the program to your son and he will be reading in no time. My daughter started looking out the car window in about 3 wks. trying to sound out words. It was a miracle!

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I was a Lindamood-Bell clinician one summer, and I can tell you that most of the summer clinicians were not permanent employees. We had two permanent, and 6 temporary clinicians. But the training is excellent and the clinicians are supervised and evaluated by a permanent employee before they work alone. There was one person that did not “make the grade” during supervised sessions, and that person was dismissed. The director designs a daily lesson plan for each individual. Then the child does the same lesson plan 55 minutes at a time with four different clinicians. The clinics have to report the beginning and final testing results to headquarters. So, the director makes sure that the students get quality instruction. The program is a good program.

Hate to sound rude, just curious. What is the story behind the big bucks? Why is this program so expensive?

I don’t really know the answer, I suppose if I hired my son’s current tutor 4 hours a day for six weeks it would cost alot too. Actually I just did the math and it would cost more. I happen to live in New York and I can tell from reading these boards that everything we do (speech, IM, tutor) costs more here, so if LMB works its actually a bargain!! : )

The price per hour is really comparable, or maybe less, than the price per hour of private tutors. The only reason why it costs a lot is because there are lots of hours.

I understand your hesitation,but I’m convinced it’s the method combined with one on one daily ,intensively that worked where nothing else would. I don’t think my son would have learned to read more than one syllable words EVER wo the LIPS method being taught every day, 4 hours a day , 5 days a week for about 6 weeks. And we’re doing Seeing Stars and LIPS this fall until he’sgot it solid. This isn’t an easy method. Ask to look at the manual. There’s a LOT of info for a kid to absorb to make it work. That’s why they need followup practice to keep reinforcing it. THe way I understand it it’s actually teaching a different center of the brain to handle the processing for reading. Likewith stroke victims where you teach them to talk and function again using different parts of the brain. I learned of Lindamood from a PBS special on thte brain. It showed a study LB is doing in Wash DC using brain scans before and after LIPS. The brains scans showd that after LIPS there was new brain activity in areas there werent before.
I think it’s worth the money. We would have paid it-we just couldn’t get it in time to help Jack. We felt it was important to get him reading before age 7 since there is some evidence that the brain closes some language windows about that age and it gets harder to learn to read every year over age 6-just like learning second languages. In fact there is some evidence that the same part of the brain that learns 2nd languages is the part that learns to read. You don’t have to pay the money upfront so if you don’t see an improvement you don’t have to continue.
But I think it’s important to have the intensity. Like an antibiotic. Giving it in drips and drabs can be worse than nothing at all, esp for kids that really need that immersion.

First, thanks to everyone who has encouraged us to do this. I spoke with my husband last night and he’s on board. We can’t believe NOONE on our team suggested an intensive program like this.We do have some more questions for you all!

Based on testing results, and lots of great info. from this board I am pretty sure my son has a rapid naming deficit. On the woodcock johnson, he showed high phonemic awareness, but a low phoneme/grapheme score. His reading since that time has become increasingly accurate but slow. I think some of the improvements we are seeing is from an increased sight word vocab. He avoids reading, and reads way below grade level despite the fact that the woodcock scores don’t look that bad. (less than 1 year below grade level on paper but not in read life!!)

When they evaluate him at LMB will they tailor the program to target his specific weaknesses? I can’t tell from reading their literature if he needs Lips or if he’s ready for the next phase.
Thank you so much for your expertise and encouragement.

There are better options out there to be honest. Lindamood Bell is a good program but it is boring and it requires kids to sit down a whole lot in the summer when often what they need is movement. A good speech therapist might do you better or a reading tutor. I would recommend Orton Gillingham tutoring over Lindamood Bell in a heartbeat. Its more fun, its more functional and it makes more sense in terms of how kids learn. But just my opinion. Nad you can buy the Lindamood stuff and so it yourself for less than you wouls pay the program. It does help kids but from teachers and parents I have talked to it isn’t your best option.

I use the LMB method and I was really excited to see that same PBS special make mention of the study involving LMB. The part about LMB was really just a little piece of the program.

It took a boy, about 8, I think, who had auditory discrimination problems, and ran a brain scan on him while asking him to answer questions. He hadn’t yet done any LMB remediation. I don’t remember now what they were but I think he had to spell words or finish their spelling or do something related to hearing the sounds and responding. The scan showed what areas of his brain were and were not lighting up properly while doing this work.

He did very poorly. He then began an intensive LMB program at a regional center and retook the test after either 2 or 3 weeks of LMB work. The appropriate areas of his brain were lighting up and he was correctly giving the answers. That proved to researchers that this LMB work really WAS cognitive retraining and rewiring.

Yes, the LMB people do tailor their program to the individual child. At least, that’s been my experience with the regional center near me. I know two kids for whom the program decided NOT to do the LIPS portion because they didn’t need it.

Cheryl, I thought LMB was part of the Orton Gillingham stuff, or a branch off?

Actually, I’m sure this differs by area, but at the closet LMB center to me (unfortunately quite far away!) the cost is $65/hr while private tutoring is generally between $20-35 per hour.

As I mentioned, I’m sure it differs between areas. If it weren’t so far from my home, I’d probably do it.

So Karen, I vote you try it! :-)

Yes! Initially they will do complete testing (quite long!) prior to working with him and they will set up an individualized program. Have you called the center and talked with them?

Wow, around here private tutors make $50 -$75 an hour. So the LMB cost of $65 per hour is reasonable.

We’re at the clinic this summer and about to start week five (4 hours day/5 days a week).

It’s been a wonderful experience. I thought their testing was excellent — it pinpointed exactly what my son needed work in.

One of my favorite things about the clinic is how positive they are with the children. They have been so kind!!! It has really helped my son’s self-esteem. He wants to go everyday. They try and make it fun.

My son is finally decoding words and not guessing — and he is a severe dyslexic.

These programs work. I’d definitely recommend the LMB clinic.

I have been very impressed with Lindamood Bell LiPS. Does your district have a teacher who is trained? My sister-in-law was able to get her daughter’s school to provide LiPS after school. I work for a district that is providing daily LiPS instruction. Lindamood has been around a long time, there are many people with experience. Wouldn’t it be great if your child could get instruction at school with no additional cost to you!

Well sort of but not really…

They are similar in that they are both multi-sensory, individualized direct instruction of synthetic phonics- but they are different in their orientation and level of intensity. Both programs address phonological awareness intensively while developing phoneme/grapheme correspondance.

LMB began as articulation therapy and was developed researched and field tested by SLP’s. The reading/decoding stuff came later and is actually fairly recent. It is possible to do LMB strictly as artic therapy and leave out the decoding part. I know several SLP’s who do this. Mouth positions are a huge piece of their instructional method- sounds are sorted that way and order of presentation is governed by what your mouth has to do to produce the sound somewhat.

Pure OG- not Wilson or Language or any of the packaged varietals- has a rather different history- it grew out of direct work with dyslexics. The presentation sequence is governed more by linguistic frequency than mouth position… and it’s only purpose is to teach reading and spelling. The progression- if you follow it all the way to the end- moves from phonology to morphology (decoding by morphemes or meaningful chunks like suffixes).

Of the two, I would say that LMB is rather more intense than OG-especially if you do it in the clinic setting. With a private therapist they are probably equivalent in intensity- but suited to different sorts of students.

Robin

What’s so interesting about your description (which was really helpful by the way) is that my son did speech therapy at age 4 and again at age 6, mostly for co-articulation issues, alittle sound discrimination and a little pragmatics. He’s not technically dyslexic - he’s a mish mash of stuff, so maybe this will really make sense for him. Plus he has an OG tutor, and I’m not assuming LMB will eliminate the need for additional tutoring. I ‘m just hoping it will help move him along so we can start addressing other issues in the develoment of his skills. Thanks!

My son’s tutor charges $ 125 /hour. Granted she’s got a Phd in reading disabilities, but I don’t think that’s an unusual rate for my area. I actually spoke with a neuropsychologist that does remediation for kids with NLD, and she charges closer to $ 200. I have no idea what LMB charges here in New York, but I bet its less that the private tutors.

I AM living in the wrong area- a good masters level tutor in Vermont- where I thought everything was more expensive- check out my grocery bill for example- might run about fifty-sixty/hr. A more normal amount might be twenty to thirty- which doesn’t necessarily mean that you are getting less expertise but it might mean fewer letters after the name:) The clinics usually are around that as well- maybe as high as 70.00 but that would have to be for really intense work.

Robin

Robin,
My younger son was in speech therapy from age 2 and 10 mos until 4 and 1 month, he could only speak about 6 consonants when he started. I am wondering if some of what his slp used was the LMB, I know he had to watch himself in the mirror some, for letter L she put peanut butter on the roof of his mouth and for letter V she put pb on his bottom lip, so he would place his tongue and teeth in their proper places. I guess the reason I wonder is because he did great in kgarten learning to read, he would come home and spell his classmates’ names to me, even Elliott. He started kgarten as a 4yr old, his bday is in Oct. His dad and I are pretty convinced that the speech therapy helped a lot with knowing letter sounds (since he basically had to learn all of them) and being able to connect them to actual letters. My son eventually went back into speech in 3rd grade because he still hadn’t mastered R. But boy howdy did he ever get that L!
I wondered this since you mentioned it started as artic. therapy and this would have been about 7 - 8 years ago.
As always, very interested in what everyone has to say.
Thanks.

Anytime. I am an OG tutor so my orientation is more that way but I have seen some kiddoes with those sorts of issues flourish with LMB. My instructor was trained in both when I first became certified lo those many years ago- so I learned all that “stuff” about mouth position then and it has been really helpful. Have your tutor communicate with the LMB folks so that she can integrate what they have taught into her lessons. It isn’t a long jump from on to the other. Hope he does well!
Robin

Could be- lots of SLP’s are trained to use those techniques because they are soooo concrete…how marvelous that he applied it so well!

Robin

I keep telling my husband we should pack it in and move to Vermont. (we go up for 1 week in august and love it!)
Bear in mind everything costs more in New York (city) so tutors have to charge more for their services just like everyone else here. Its a self perpetuating situation. Just as an aside - how are the public schools in Vermont when it comes to LD kids? In case we really ever flee NY : )

My son’s best friend also did speech therapy early (age 2-3) and also was an early reader. I think it was organic for him, but the speech therapist (who we also used later on) said alot of her kids are strong readers. I guess as long as there isn’t an underlying disability ala my kid .

The founders of the Lindamood-Bell program were originally speech and language pathologists who took the same principles they used for articulation over to the arena of learning to read. That’s how they developed the LIPS program. I have a young relative who’s been seeing an SLP since she was very little for articulation problems (but she’s been reading since she was 3). I can see how much of the LIPS program has been adapted from SLP.

I’m glad you remembered that and could clarify. I remember thinking if my kid can read and remember words that well I’ll be happy. Well, I am- ecstatic!!!
I think LMB has some great methods, but like everythig else the kid has to be ready, the teacher a right match, the kids problems those reached by LMB. We just hit it right on all cylinders- and boy am I glad we found LIPS and have high hopes for Seeing Stars taking us the rest of the way. How exciting to awaken kids the way my son was - for a living. He just felt so happy the first three weeks he hugged everyone in sight.

We like it too:)

As a general rule schools here are quite forward thinking when it comes to managing LD- I only know my own district intimately but the general rule seems to be “deal with the child regardless of the paperwork”. This is good and bad- most kids can get extra support- fairly intensive support even-when they need it- so the push to do the whole eligibility thing in my area is a bit less. I find as I go to different schools as an evaluator that this is true elsewhere as well. The teachers really try to stay current for the most part- and welcome productive suggestions. This is certainly not true everywhere I imagine- but it is where we are.

Robin

I don’t think it is a branch off if you read the history. Similar philosophy. But not as multi-sensory or functional.

A Lindamood Bell program given by an EXPERIENCED tutor is faster and more effecteive that al the other OG methods. This has been proven via scientific study. Usually by the time the problem is diagnosed, a child is already way behind and deserves the quickest, proven method ASAP. For kids with speech issues, it really helps articulation too.

My son and his classmates who remained illiterate after so called multisensory methods (Slingerland) for 3 years, began truly reading in less than 3 months using LBlips for 5-6 hours per week.

I have noticed that you have repeatedly made negative comments about LB programs. It almost sounds like you have closed mind.

Robin,
I just met the LMB director in my city, and well, the staff looked really young, and I felt like I was getting a boiler plate sales pitch. I was thinking about doing an intensive 4 weeks for my son before school begins, and then returning to his regular schedule and tutor for the school year. There ‘s no way to go to the center during the school year - too inconvenient. Any thoughts? How did you find your LMB tutor? none of the indepedent tutors I’ve interviewed (and there have been many) seem to use LMB.
Karen

Actually our clinic did have a lot of young staffers too but they were good and well supervised. I had done my research on LB so I really didn’t get a sales pitch. I did however, talk to a parent who had already used the center and she was very happy with the results.
Later I sent another parent there and at first she was disappointed with the director and was not impressed with the facility. However she was desparate and sent her child there. To make a long story short, she and her daughter said it was the best thing they had ever done. It was the only way her daughter (entering 5th grade) learned to read.
I think the best thing you could do right now is ask for referneces. If there are other happy clients, then I would go ahead and use them Remember is it results you are after. I am rooting for you and your child. Good Luck.

The therapy is not based on Lindamood Bell but as others said, LMB is based on speech therapy principles that are highly formalized. THe problem with it is just that, it is a formula and often kids with learning disabilities need therapy outside the box. But it can and does help. The therapy your son got used the idea that visual cueing along with auditory cueing helps your child with speech production.

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