went to Lindamood-Bell clinic today

My son is also very weak in visual memory (for letters). It took months of hard work just to learn his letters in kindergarten — that’s how bad he was.

We also did hours and hours of vision therapy. And Phonographix. It did not help him read. We had most of our success in Wilson language. It took him from a pre-primer level to a 1st grade reading level.

We’re at the Lindamood Bell clinic now. We just started week 5. My son is decoding and really reading for the first time in his life.

Mostly, they felt he needed Seeing Stars. But he is also doing LIPs (he didn’t need to start at the beginning) and some V/V at the end. (8 to 12 weeks/4 hours a day was recommended).

I also was nervous about the money and mostly another failure for him, but this is working. He even tells me it is.

I decided to go ahead and go for it because I never read anything negative about the Lindamood Bell programs.

I have learned to listen to my son. When he tells me it isn’t working, it isn’t going to work, no matter if we finish or not! Lindamood, he tells me, is working.

And I just spent time with my husband trying to figure out if we should do this. We can’t see taking our son out of school at the beginning of the year (new teacher - enough anxiety to begin with!) but we could do 3 weeks of intensive work in august. I guess I need to go back to the folks at LMB and see if they can work with that time frame. Has anyone else used it for a shorter period? We could go back again for 2-4 weeks at christmas. I just can’t see going to the center during the regular school year - its too inconvenient, and I have another child so the logistics would be very difficult. Thoughts?

A couple thoughts:

Re visualization skills: Here’s what I know about LMB. The LIPS program primarily builds auditory discrimination skills, auditory and visual memory, and sequencing skills. The Seeing Stars program builds on the visual skills for symbols but at the clinics especially, the LIPS auditory component is constantly reinforced with every SS lesson. It too builds sequencing. The Visualizing and Verbalizing program builds visualizing skills in the area of picture imagery as opposed to symbol imagery in Seeing Stars. It’s also great for strengthening sequencing skills and both auditory and visual memory. It helps improve concentration.

Regarding removing a child from school to do a 5 or 6 week intensive at LMB: I have strong thoughts about this. It’s rare for someone to be looking into this when the child is rolling along in school OK although not really well. No, the parents who are considering LMB intensive are doing so because their child is really up against the wall in school. They’re not seeing improvements, in fact they’re seeing their child slide further and further behind.

If this is true in your case, then taking that 5 or 6 week break away from school to do this intensive is one of the biggest gifts you can give your kid. These kids are spinning their wheels in school and feeling lousy about it. When they come back from this intensive program, they’re feeling pretty darn good about themselves and in every instance I’ve seen a major change in their behavior and general emotional state because they finally feel like capable people.

Joan, what do you think about doing 3 intensive weeks , and then taking a break before completing the program? We have 3 weeks in august, but I don’t want to extend it into the first few weeks of school. I just don’t think that’s a good time to miss. I’d rather pull him out later in the year…
Just trying to sort out how to do this . Thanks.

Wow, thank you for breaking that down, much clearer explanation.

I had told her that he had CAPD and she said that they don’t really work on that but at the same time kept mentioning Oral Directions. She also was not familiar with the dyslexia descriptive breakdown that I got from the neuropsych eval.

I undertand what you are saying regarding the pullout from school. I feel that this is the position we are in, so I am a little less worried about how they will react now that you have said that.

Now, to convince my son that this is a good thing. He told me last night that he hopes we don’t have to go back there, he didn’t like it. Rats!

Lindamood has a really good track record but nothing works for all kids. Have you tried phono-graphix? It hasn’t been a cure all for my son, who has severe issues, but he has learned to read. It works well for all but the most difficult cases (and those people tend to turn successfully to LIPS) I guess I was just thinking that it would be less costly than Lindamood and it is quicker as well.

Your son’s reading scores aren’t terrible but I don’t know what you have done to get him there. If he has little to no direct remediation, I would start with PG. If you have done everything but Lindamood already (lots of work that hasn’t been effective), then I would go for Lindamood.

We tried Lindamood this summer with a private tutor (not a center) My son has perceptual motor issues and the feeling the sounds in the mouth didn’t seem to help him very much. He seemed to just try to rely on his memory and the labels LIPS uses only seemed to make things worse. His tutor had a set way of going about things and was very frustrated when he didn’t make adequate progress. She didn’t understand his problems very well, I don’t think, and wasn’t sure what to do when her standard approach (successful with other kids) didn’t work. We ended up stopping the tutoring after only a few weeks.

Beth

My first reaction was to be leery but after hearing the detailed descriptions I can see how auditory/visual are going to have to both be present to some degree in any program

And if he tests low in visual AND has CAPD, there isnt a strength to cater to. Actually, that opens your options up!

Its summer-hes not going to want to do “schoolwork” so I wouldnt take his negative comment too seriously.

My son is visual-very-and we are doing phono-graphix this summer. I like it, but think of it as auditory and had some reservations re: do you cater to their strength or stimulate their weakness?

The auditory part is definitely challenging for him-hearing the diff between short ‘i’ and ‘e’ is excruciating. But hes getting better at it! And of course theres a visual component memorizing all the letter groupings-hopefully every time he sees “igh” he’ll think ‘i..e”.

So if LB feels good, go for it!

And phono-graphix is an inexpensive alternative if you decide to wait

She doesn’t sound like a very good LMB teacher. One good thing about the centers is that every single teacher there is overseen carefully by a supervisor. They have several different methods for making sure a tutor stays on track with each student. The situation you’ve described here wouldn’t have been allowed to continue in a regional center.

She was teaching LMB in the schools in a pilot program as well as doing private tutoring. My son is somewhat of a puzzle and the person who has worked closest with him for longest told me that LIPS was created for a different sort of kid than him and if you add an inflexible tutor to the mix, she could see how it wouldn’t work out.

She came highly recommended so I don’t think you can always tell. I think she was very competent at the program—as long as you fit the profile she was used to. And my son, of course, had not read the manual!!!

I have been adapting some of the material, using what I know about my son and how he learns. He learned the vowel circle, for example, bouncing on a ball!!!

Beth

If you look at the Phonographix program, it really does require a strong visual memory. My son was very weak in this area. We did 18 weeks at the Read America clinic and my son made no gains in reading. I was given the “learned helplessness” excuse in the end. My son’s self-esteem dipped even lower.

His auditory processing score went up, but it wasn’t worth it for him.

The Lindamood programs are much more intense — and I’d really recommend the center. I also love their positive approach. My son is a new kid!! He is actually proud of his reading. I’m amazed.

Also, some of the OG methods may be better for kids with weak visual memory. I know Wilson has alot of repetition — and my son did well with it. I don’t know too much about it, but it was recommended by an educational psychologist and it worked.

Karen,
I agree with Joan about about completeing the whole LMB program regardless of school. Of course, this is just my personal opinion….but I think that a child’s stress level would be much lower with strong reading skills. If your son were my child, I’d choose to complete the program.

Good luck to you!

Good luck to you! If there was a LMB center in my area, I’d just do it!!! :-)

Interesting. My son’s LMB tutor gave us the learned helplessness line the third time she worked with him. Must be the favorite of tutors who have a child who doesn’t respond the way they expect.

Beth

The best line I heard recently was from a tutor I didn’t hire, who told me she hates working with kids when they aren’t on their medication - its too annoying when they don’t look at her.

Hey Laura,
I agree with you and Joan in principle - and in fact we are looking into special schools for a year from now, in case we have to provide an immersion environment. But I’m worried about havingi him miss the first few weeks of school - its such a stressful time anyway, new teacher, new classmates etc. I think we will either do LMB for the 3 weeks that we have available (if they can tailor something for us) or wait until the christmas break. I don’t mind if he misses school midway thru the year - its less emotionally loaded.

Oh, you made me laugh and I needed that today!

If only they would all be that obvious!!!

Beth

But… maybe skipping the whole emotionally loaded time would be a good thing, too?
(On the other hand, if htat’s when routines & social connections are made, late entries can be even worse.)

thank you. i will look into phonographix and see if it could give us a little boost while we make our decision.

Joan
I was wondering what you think about a an 8 yr old with ab auditory perception and auditory memory who was just evaluated with a Sp and Lang and they recomended LIPS and Seeing Stars. My son who has been doing OG thru the Masons and some Wilson with a tutor this summer. He is making some gains, but is still below average and impaired I have read about the LM and I feel we should try it, but in conjunction with the OG and should we just do an intesive 6 weeks like I see others on the board? My concern is too many systems. But as a parent you want to try everything. My son is in private school, so they are making modifications and he will receive speech and OT in the Fall.Thanks, Deb

I do think you should give PG a try. Especially if finances are a question. At the very least it may help your child make some progress until you start LMB (if you decide to do it!).

Glad to provide a smile -I’ve appreciated all of your posts about your son over the last few months - they’ve been very helpful as my son is also very difficult to pin down.

Anyway after I described why how my son doesn’t really fit any specific disorder the tutor we ARE going to use replied “well I guess he’s a child unto himself” . Words for me to remember as we continue our journey.