NVLD and ADD (very long)

The poor timing and lack of automaticity are my son as well. Did you read Robin G’s interpretation of my son’s Woodcock Johnson tests? Very telling. He has a really hard time with automating. We’re doing a new exercise in therapy (Neuronet) that is working on just this—automating quickly enough and for long enough. He hates it and he has not hated any of the therapy before. So maybe we will get at it yet.

I am going to try medication for ADD but still am not sure whether it is ADD—or at least only ADD. I think it is difficult for him to sustain performance because it is hard for him to integrate visual, auditory, and motor. This plays out as attention but whether ADD medication will help, I don’t know. I do see other things at home which are suggestive of ADD (lack of follow through, difficulty with organization) that can’t be explained the same way. So maybe there is more than one thing going on, and medication will help with part of it.

Beth

At this point, we have avoided them. We have been able to keep stress and anxiety down by managing the environment. His attentional difficulties are a red flag for overload, so I wouldn’t want to suppress them. If he’s in a good educational setting he has no apparent attention issues. (neither does he outside of school) In an inappropriate classroom we start hearing the “R” word being mentioned.

That said, I do know there are children who truly do suffer from both NLD and ADHD who have benefitted from stimulant meds. And there are LOTS of NLD kids who eventually need antidepressent or anti-anxiety meds in their teens.

Karen

>> I do see other things at home which are suggestive of ADD (lack of follow through, difficulty with organization) that can’t be explained the same way. So maybe there is more than one thing going on, and medication will help with part of it. <<

Well, it’s certainly a possibility. But remember that executive function issues are a BIG problem for many NLD children too, so those aren’t problems exclusive to ADHD.

Karen

***

Interactive Metronome. Sorry. There are a number of posts on this bb on it. It involves doing a series of motor movements (hand clapping for example) to a computerized metronome. It improves motor planning, timing, and attention among other things. The research supporting its use is on their website.

Beth

Thanks, I’ll look it up.

I am, though, always concerned when research hasn’t been replicated (as I’m sure you are, too) That doesn’t make the technique “poor,” it just means we have little data to really support it…

Yes, I know. Does the executive dysfunction with NVLD present differently than with ADD? Does it have different causes?

Beth

There is actually reasonable data, with control groups, to support IM, which is more than you can say for most interventions of this sort. This therapy actually can get kids to the point that they can dance!! My son never sang until he did IM, for example.

Beth

My understanding is that the current theory for NLD is a white matter model. “White matter” is the material that carries the electrical messages to different parts of the brain. Since there is white matter in all parts of the brain, it stands to reason that a person who has damage to the white matter can manifest all kinds of different problems. The reason that most of the problems seem to be “right brain” problems, is that for some reason, there is more white matter in the right hemisphere of the brain than there is in the left.

Most people with NLD have their greatest difficulty with tasks that require passing information from one hemisphere to the other. This makes sense, when you realize that the Corpus callosum, which connects the two hemispheres of the brain, is almost entirely white matter.

If a person has damage to the white matter in an area that controls executive function, (I THINK that is in the frontal lobe, but I’m not sure on that) they will have EF problems. This is one of the reasons that so many NLD people have other issues along with the “classic” NLD symptoms, though… It depends on what areas of the white matter have been damaged, and whether the person has been able to build new neural pathways to circumvent those damaged areas or not.

At least that’s what I’ve gleaned from my reading.

Karen

Brenda, I would like to speak to you personally. Please email me, since you don’t put your email address on these boards.

While we have chosen to focus on other things because you can only do so much, I am a firm believer in the value of IM, and other therapies that involve the rhythmic use of both sides of the body with this population. I think it is particularly useful for those with problems crossing midline, and with balance, and coordination problems stemming from the inability to coordinate both sides of the body. (all problems for my older son)

I don’t think IM is the only way to get the same benefits… there are no “silver bullets”, as I’m sure you are aware. I know a child who made REMARKABLE progress after she decided to take up the drums. The motivation of WANTING to be in the band so badly made her put out the extra effort to improve in this area. The side benefit was that it helped her inmany other areas as well. My guys both spent years in gymnastics, which I’m sure helped a great deal.

I’ve noticed with both my guys that their timing is always a little off. We were at the circus the other night, and they had the audience clapping along with the music during one act. One of my guys was a split second slow, while the other (the dx’d NLD one) was all over the place. Neither one of them can hit a baseball either. I’m sure this is partly visual/spatial, but I’ve watched carefully, and they swing late every time.

As I mentioned to Beth, my older one is very resistant to therapy, so we have to be careful, and “hide” therapy in things that seem like just plain fun. You also have to choose where you spend your money as well as your time. I KNOW that social problems are the downfall of too many NLD adults. I figure that when they are older, and and want to change things, and feel invested in therapies, we can look into some of these other things. At the moment, with middle school looming, we are spending our money and time on social skills.

Karen

This makes a lot of sense to me—and describes my son awfully well, I’m afraid. What about a child who has ADHD, in addition to NVLD? How is that different?

Beth

it is more good training than anything else though…

Associative memory typically means associating visual and verbal input…I think Teri Bellis calls it an integrative function which uses both hemispheres of the brain in her book on CAPD.

Which tests he took for the Long Term Retrieval cluster depend on whether he was given the WJ-R or the WJIII because they changed them when they renormed the test. The one in common- which actually requires associative memory- presents kids with a line drawing of say- a cat and the examiner says cat. Then the child repeats it. You add 5-6 of these and then present them in a different order- usually a set of meaningful phrases. Then add 5-6 more and present all the learned associations in a different order. Technically this is called a controlled learning task… Anyway, kids with trouble in this area may find acquiring basic skills challenging. However- it is one of a constellation of symptoms that need to be considered together- by better credentialed brains than mine I am afraid. I can tell you that it is on the list of symptoms for CAPD, as well as ADD or it can be a processing deficit in and of itself. Combined with the short term memory stuff I would not rule out ADD out of hand. I know there are folks here who are adamant about meds, but the data - which is extensive and pretty long term- does not really suggest long term negative consequences.

You have all the pieces and you know your son- you will work this through:)

Robin

That would be wonderful… I LOVE to read new “stuff”. Seriously…

One of the most user friendly books that I have read about brain function is Learning and Memory, the Brain in Action. The author escapes me at the moment… but it was great and it is listed on this site. Terri Bellis’s book “When the Brain Can’t Hear” is also quite enlightening. I am also a fan of Nancy Mather- which is likely part of the reason I am so comfortable with the WJ assessment stuff.

Robin

Ohhhh! This is the kind of stuff he really struggles with. The Neuronet therapist told me this is key to his difficulties, although at some level I still don’t understand it. Why does it make acquiring basic skills difficult? We have made progress here—but he is outside of her norms for remediation. Interestingly, he made a big jump after doing IM this summer so we both have hope.

What amazes me is how you can tell the same story she does when she has worked with him for 1 1/2 years and you only read test results (which she never read—had her own testing). You can say it is good training but then I say it is all too rare. I thank you for being willing to share. Too bad Vermont is not closer to Florida.

I agree that this as well as other symptoms he has do fit multiple diagnoses. That is why it has been so hard to sort out. He doesn’t fit anything perfectly—even one CAPD diagnosis. One audiologist told me that she sees kids like him (who cross CAPD categories) as having information processing difficulties. I once was very opposed to medication but am now willing to give it a try. I certainly don’t think it is the whole picture but maybe it is part of it. My sister told me that she saw my son in the girl on All Kinds of Minds (the PBS) special who eventually took medication for her ADD with life changing results. Now, I have been doing this too long to expect miracles from anything…

Beth

Karen,

I agree fully that sports can play a major therapeutic role for these types of kids. I think my kid has some nld tendencies visual spatial, bilateral motor, etc. I would encourage everyone to keep trying different sports and different sports instructors.
My son did miserably with baseball but with the right golf coach his doing well. Although he remains forever inconsistant.

He also did great with snowboarding. I don’t know why.

Linda

Besides Pat Wolfe and Eric Jensen, I enjoyed Marilee Sprenger’s book about memory. It is loaned out also.

I won’t loan out the Pat Wolfe title and am sorry I loaned Eric Jensen’s “Teaching with the Brain in Mind.” I haven’t missed Marilee Sprenger as much.

I really love the Cooperative Learning stuff by Spencer Kagan. Has application to any learning environment, I think, but not “memory” info specifically.

I’ve written down your Teri Bellis selection and ordered from the library. I’ve also ordered the WJIII offering by Nancy Mather.

What do you think of the tandem offering by Mather and Sam Goldstein? You can answer off-line if needed.

I’ve had a couple of Tests & Measures classes and am taking another in the fall. We got into the WJIII but I haven’t given it since then. My district hasn’t used the test as much. I found it much more intriguing than the WISC but am out of practice now. I’m hoping we’ll decide to use that test more often.

I must say that I was very impressed with your on-line diagnostic skills. I’ll bet you’re totally awsome live!

He couldn’t dance either. Interestingly, he can now. (Post Tai Kwan Do) I think some of it is also, I believe, just maturation of the dendritic connections. Doing things builds a stronger mylen (sp) sheath on the neuron allowing the signal to process faster. Remember the first few times you factored in algebra? Slow, eh? Practice makes permanent! Good practice builds speed through the dendrite connections. However, if one is practicing incorrectly—oh, my! The most difficult thing for brain to do is unlearn some process (like how to do long division) that is in long-term memory incorrectly.

On some thread somewhere people spoke of being concerned about Karate. Why not try Tai Chi? Martial arts like Tai Kwon Do can be very non-combative through the first 3 belts. It takes our kids forever to even get through 2 belts…Mine never got to sparring and it didn’t hurt my heart. He did get some additional balance & coord. from it. Lots depends on the instructor…

mmm

My dau who also has trouble with SI etc. has done Tae Kwondo for the past three years which has help her coordination too. She currently is working to move to 2nd degree black belt. I thought we had finally hit the level she was going to stay at because she couldn’t break her boards…I when to her “master” and explain to him that unless he physically moved her legs to the positions her body would never get the message. Sure enough he took her out of regular class twice and work with her physically - placing her steps, lifting her legs, pulling out her kicks until her body and brain put it together…She now is breaking the boards and with lots of hope and prayers she will now pass her next testing and have only one more test til she is a 2nd degree Black belt.
The point of all this is that most people don’t understand SI and how they can truly reach these kids…BUT with a little education on our parts-“they can move on up to the big leagues”(sing along with me!)

Several professionals who have reviewed my son’s case have said that these kinds of kids sometimes respond to stimulants, but they also all suggested something more like a prozac or wellbutrin for the anxiety. He isn’t anxious in all situations, or fearful at all. But he does talk obsessively and we think its triggered by anxiety. He also clearly has emotional responses to reading - he can read better than he thinks he can, but when he makes an error it often triggers a downward spiral. After finishing IM, and after school begins, we may do a prozac drug trial to see if it helps. And since ADD-inattentive and anxiety can look alike we think its the anxiety that causes him to look ADD-ish.

Robin, I’m close enough to Vermont that I may have to drive up (LOL)
My question is about the neuropsych my son did. He didn’t have the woodcock cognitive test you are discussing, but he did have the Cognitive assessment system (CAS) and I haven’t been able to find info about it to help me understand it the way I now understand the Wisc. Do you know this test?
I, like Beth from FLA, and trying to understand where NVLD,ADD, Executive Function, and all the other stuff intersects.

Thanks

that he took. I am curious about the other components of the “long term memory” component of this test. Any information would be appreciated.

Beth

Karen, that’s very interesting about white matter. My sister has MS, secondary progressive stage, and unfortunately in her case, it’s her cognitive realm that’s suffered the most, far more than motor function, which is more commonly experienced. She presents as someone with very severe executive function disabilities. I’ve attended conferences on MS and cognitive dysfunctions. Although the reason behind the dysfunction is different in MS, the results are the same s with anyone else. In MS, the myelin which is the sheath covering the nerves is damaged and so the electrical firing that should take place in the white matter doesn’t. It’s kind of like a short circuit. The result, though, is ultimately the same as with anybody with an executive function disability.

I’ve heard recently that the LMB people are shifting a little bit in their thinking about LIPS. Apparently they’ve found that it’s better to move very quickly through the pictures part of it and incorporate Seeing Stars right away. They’re finding that you can reinforce LIPS quite nicely through Seeing Stars. They don’t spend lots of time with blocks either, preferring to move into the Seeing Stars program where the emphasis is on letters. I’m hoping to get to see them in action now. It’s been a few years since I’ve observed a student/teacher at one of their centers. If this is true, it’s very interesting. On my own, I’ve found that I have certain kids who just can’t tolerate pictures and blocks but they can progress very nicely using the letter names.

Eric Jensen’s books are practically my Bible! I have his “Teaching With the brain in Mind”, “Learning With the Body in Mind” and “Brain Based Learning”. All are well worth owning. Because of these books and after hearing him speak at a conference, I’ve completely revamped my tutoring.

And if we don’t keep our eye on the main thing, we get lost in politics and arguments over program elements and all kinds of extraneous “stuff.”

Several years ago, I did a reading practicum at a clinic which uses exclusive LmB. They’ve since added Seeing Stars—Just couldn’t slip over into the O-G phonics realm. Pity. They about had a cow when I sprinkled Orton on my LiPS. Ha, ha…I’m so funny! :-\ They let me do it. My student made more progress. I wrote up a scope and sequence using LiPS and either Wilson or SPIRE. I don’t know SStars well enough to write about it. I’ve got the manual but it just looked like a version of multi-sensory phonics to me.

using the letters and having them write as soon as they are ready. I want the kids using their mouths to feel the sounds when they are confused…I still use the labels and blocks. In the long run they have to be able to understand the sound symbol relationship to real words so I don’t spend as much time in nonsense syllables either because to many kids all the syllables look like nonsense because they have low vocabularies. My daughter spent way too much time in nonsense syllables and she needed to increase her vocabulary, not decode nonsense syllables. I have found that dictation has been very helpful in this area in addition to having them read what they have written down.

I hear that Dr. Jensen will be the keynote speaker at the LDA of Missouri conference in St. Louis. What a masterful idea *that* was! It is the first week in Nov., I think. Check their website. www.ldamo.org, I think or just Google “LDA of Missouri” and it will bring it up.

The price for parents is very low…if not FREE. Wow! What a deal!

I agree 100%. It is truly case-by-case.

Have you taken O-G training yet? :-)

bowled over my kid. It took him a year to get a full yellow belt. This was a Do-Jo (sp?) that did not “give away” belts so he felt proud to earn it.

I’m so proud that he could do something and not be competitive. To just enjoy it for the focus and concentration it provided him. He won’t admit to the balance part publicly…that’s okay.

Wow, that is interesting. And I can see how it could happen. I have a very good friend with MS, but fortunately (I guess, if you can say anything about MS is “fortunate”) it has not affected her at all cognitively, at least so far.

I know someone else with MS who is nuttier than a fruitcake, but I don’t think we can blame MS… she was that way before she had MS.

Karen

Have you read John Ratey’s book, “The User’s Guide to the Brain”? I found it to be very user-friendly indeed. I learned a lot from it. But then, I’ve always really liked him.

Karen

I know that there are less combative marshal arts, and I know that many kids benefit from them greatly. It again comes down to having to make decision on how you spend your time, money and energy. When they were littler, gymnastics worked really well. Now their gym based social skills group, which is run by trained mental health councelors seems to be the best choice. They work on motor skills, social skills and cooperative problem solving at the same time, and think the whole thing is play. They can’t wait to go back. The only thing that’s not so good is the hole it leaves in our pocketbooks.

Still we’d probably spend more on addressing these three areas separately than we spend on their sessions at Academy.

Karen

That’s another thing I like about Academy over enrolling my kids in a regular marshal arts program. The kids are carefully evaluated at intake, and placed in small groups of kids with similar ages, issues and cognitive and physical ability levels. So my kids are in with other kids very much like them.

NLD kids have such a fragile self esteem that it can be really hard on them to see everyone doing better than they are. My older one is pretty oblivious, at least so far. He thinks he can do anything. The younger one, however, thinks EVERYONE is better than him at everything. He needs the safety of Academy to show him that there ARE other kids who are on just about the same level he is at the same age.

Karen

Well, they can do well, or at least enjoy individual sports. Team sports are a recipe for disaster for most NLD kids. They interpret the rulse too rigidly and get upset at the slightest infractions by other players, they can’t follow the over-all movement of play, and have a really hard time assimilating all the if/then rules. Plus, if there’s a ball involved, most of them can’t hit it, catchit or throw it.

For some reason, my older (oblivious) son loves playing town basketball. He’s tall, so he is somwhat useful as a guard, because he can just hang over the other kids head and block shots by waving his arms around. But in all the games I watched last year, I hardly ever saw him touch the ball. The other kids knew better than to pass to him, and he didn’t seem to notice. He just ran up and down the court with the rest of the pack.

The younger one loves baseball, but I don’t know how long he’ll stick it out. He knows he doesn’t do very well, and he never gets on base unless he’s walked. In the field, he can’t catch or effectively throw the ball. He gets very discouraged, but so far, he still wants to do it. We just keep telling him it’s his decision.

Karen

My son struggled with every team sport. Everything in team sports happens too quickly. He used to get so down on himself, thinking he’d never be good at anything. I enrolled him in the YMCAswimming program when he was in first grade. That turned out to be a wonderful experience for him. He stayed in that program all the way through to the top, even though he was the only kid who still relied on his “swimmies” (don’t know what they’re called nowadays) even after graduating from the pollywog level. Five years later, he was a very competent and careful swimmer and really felt good about his abilities. It’s the only sport he’s ever been able to be decent at.

In that case the second test was essentially the same only the pictures were a little more detailed. They called it “Memory for Names” and kiddoes were presented with a picture of a space alien and told the name and then asked to point to it and repeat the name. Then they were given a page of space aliens and asked to pick out individual aliens… It was actually a lot of fun to give and take- but has been dropped from the WJIII because it tested a pretty limited aspect of learning and there were better measures of long term coding of information. There is a delayed recall aspect of that cluster as well that gives a more accurate sense of how stable that learning might be than the initial tests…

Associative memory is important for basic skills because so much of what kids do in the early stages of learning is associating one piece of info with another- names and faces, letters and sounds, numbers and quantities and names…They are establishing a kind of internal library of information and skills for later use- and most good direct instruction techniques rely heavily on controlled learning in one form or another- including PG. It becomes less of a factor as learners get older- as long as they have gotten those basic skills- reasoning abilities become more important in math and reading comprehension with older students.

Nobody gets miracles- there is lots of hard work regardless of the treatment options. Even with meds- if they work for him- he will likely continue to require information to be presented in small quantities and practiced to a fair thee well. But the quantities might be larger and the practice less time consuming:) And he should gradually learn to bring the other pieces and parts of his learning into play so that things work a little more smoothly. If the intensity of his concentration is what is impacting his stamina then that may improve as well.Sigh.. Wish there were easier answers!

Robin

I really am not familiar with the CAS- but it is put out by the same publisher as the WJIII. Here is the support site from Riverside…

http://www.riverpub.com/products/clinical/cas/resource.html

It is at least a good place to start:)

Robin

The Mather and Goldstein book is very good- she is just an excellent resource. I liked the Sprenger book because I could suggest it to classroom teachers and parents- and it would make sense:) This is critical for me- this stuff is confusing enough!

Thanks for the kind words:) I always like your posts too.

I like the WJIII because my essential orientation is that of a teacher I think- and it intuitively makes more sense to me. That probably has a lot to do with my training and who did it- but it is also because the theory behind it just seems to make more sense than that behind the WISC. But intelligence testing is one of those fields that is undergoing lots of change and the number crunchers behind it keep finding more and better things to do- so we muddle along-LOL.

Robin

Me too but your insights have really helped. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise.

Beth

Royce,
Thanks for that. I am going to try that with my son and swimming. HMMM physically moving the body parts for them.

That sounds like it should work.

Hi AA,

I appreciate you hopping in. My son does have similarities to you.

I actually am leaning towards getting the neurospych done now for two reasons.

1. I want to know if we are looking at NVLD—because the social part seems to get more demanding over time. In other words, are his right brain deficits severe enough to cause the sort of social issues characteristic of kids with NVLD. I do not know the extent of his deficits in this area. All the neurologists said was he had a right brain disorder. I do have a lot of testing but I can’t put it together to make that determination. He is 9 and has tons of academic issues, although improved. My natural inclination is to continue to focus on the academic but this might not be the correct route. I feel like this information would help me make better decisions. Should I look for a social skills group before middle school? If time were not an issue, I would do it all but I can’t. I need to prioritize and am now thinking that more information would help me do that better.

2. When I look at my son, I don’t see anything he does easily. I am thinking that a neuropsch evaluation would help identify strengths. It is hard to look at your child and see nothing but relative weaknesses.

Now questions for you–I understand that ADD like symptoms can be part of NVLD as well as a separate condition. On what basis was it determined that you had ADD as well as NVLD? Have you tried medication? Has it helped you?

Beth

When my son was first having trouble in school I was very concerned about self esteem issues. They had a program in my sons school called “The friendship club” The guidance counselor (an incredible woman) took him into this group. They drew pictures about how things made them feel, discussed issues to improve empathy towards others. He was only in it for Kindergarten. The guidance counselor thought he had these issues well in hand.
The end result is that my child does well in this area now. I just had another Dad thank me yesterday for raising a child who is so kind. He took this man’s son who is 5 under his wing while they played sharks and minnows in the pool with kids who were a bit older. My son is by no means perfect but I think he understands fairness most of the time. (Can’t always grasp the concept with little brother though)

I should really go and thank that guidance counselor again.

Both of my boys have been in social skills “friendship groups” at school for several years. These can be fun for kids, and for the right population of kids, I’m sure they can help. In the case of my two, they like it because it means that they can skip the lunch room on those days.

But for kids with cognitive difficulties that are the basis for their social skills problems, they really need a lot more. both of my guys are kind, gentle kids, which is pretty typical of NLD kids. Their social problems are much more subtle. They need direct, rote teaching of pragmatics, which is something that is never (or hardly ever) done in general ed social skills groups.

Mostly the school groups are talk, “feelings” groups. NLD kids need to develop a tool box of responses that they have learned through rote role playing. Hopefully, eventually they will be able to generalize these tools into real life situations.

While my kids both enjoy their friendship groups, (and there is some value in that, I suppose, when the school day is so hard for these kids) I have been told on numerous occassions that my sons have “delightful manners”, or are “role models for the other children” That’s nice, but that’s not what they’re there for. They need to learn that when another kid comes up to them and says, “Hey, dude, what’s up?” The proper response might not be to start examining the sky for airplanes.

Karen

Perhaps if you have a good guidance counselor you can discuss the skill issues and what you think they need. I am sure the counselor at my school would have complied with such a request.

When talking about tools kids need I have to think talking about feelings is an important one. More often than not kids just don’t know how to do this.

Is your child NLD? NLD kids usually don’t behave in a socially unacceptable manner because they are acting out feelings. They are just clueless. They are blunt, painfully honest, overly literal and terribly naive. They aggravate other children by saying exactly what they think, and are confused when other kids don’t do the same. As Sue Thompson has said, NLD children think that if people would say what they mean, and mean what they say, there wouldn’t be a problem. But (perhaps unfortunately) that’s not the way the world works.

Now, it IS possible for NLD kids to become so stressed by an inappropriate environment that they DO act out, out of frustration. But in this case, talking about feelings isn’t the answer. In this case, the child needs to be placed in a more appropriate educational setting. When that is done, often the “behavior” issues disappear as if by magic.

In general, NLD kids don’t learn to improve social skills by talking about feelings. They need to be taught EVERYTHING in a very concrete, verbally mediated manner. They need to practice specific skills over and over, usually through role playing. The average non-NLD child would be bored out of their mind, and frustrated with such a program.

The problem with guidance councelors is that they are not usually trained to teach pragmatics, as this is acually as speech and language issue. It doesn’t matter how well-intentioned they are, (ours really cared a lot) most just don’t have the training and skills needed for this group of children. And because its a low-incidence disability, it’s hard to get the school system to put the resources into getting them adequately trained. Since most public school S&L people mostly work with speech issues, they are often not qualified to work with these kids either.

Even with the most intensive work with the best trained professional, It’s not possible to solve the social skills issues of an NLD child with one year of a social skills group in Kindergarten. Social demands become increasingly complex as children get older. Many NLD children don’t even show any signs of social skills problems until middle school or later. Social skills training (“coaching” might be a better term) must be on-going with these kids to help them learn how to fit in at every age.

I know a lot of parents of NLD children. Almost all of them participate in “friendship groups” of one sort or another at school. I have yet to meet a single parent who feels that this has been adequate for their NLD child. At best, it has been, as with my kids, a morale-boosting break from the lunch room. At worst, I know of NLD kids who have had a terrible time with “behavior problem” kids that have been placed in the same group with them by councelors who were not adequately aware of the deficits of NLD children

Karen

My son did a year in a group of four high functioning kids (each with their own different issues) that was facilitated by a social worker. It helped him practice playing games, losing, negotiating, expressing himself in an appropriate manner. He got feedback from the kids as well as direction from the therapist. We are n’t doing it anymore b/c our focus has moved to reading remediation and psychotherapy. (He’s NLDish, but maybe not severe, or maybe not really NLD - noone knows and the psychiatrist thinks talk therapy will benefit him….) But it gave his self esteem a boost.

Was that in school, or a privately run program? Both my boys attend a private program on top of the the school-run “Friendship Group”. The private program we use, uses a gym-based model, but works on the same skills you mentioned, as well a cooperative problem solving. I think this kind of group can be very beneficial as long as the kids are well matched in cognitive ability, and behavioral style.

Unfortunately, in school run programs, these groups are usually heavy on ADHD type kids who can run rings around the NLD kids, both cognitively and physically. There usually just aren’t enough NLD children of similar age, in the same school district to put together a group of these kids.

Karen

Karen N,

Your son sounds so much like mine. It is uncanny at times. My son too is NLDish but the whole picture doesn’t fit. I sometimes wonder if it is ADD but that also doesn’t fully fit.

I think the more we remediate the further we get from any label, which is fine with me.

Linda