freedom from distractibility and processing speed

Low scores in either could be caused by test anxiety. A low score in F.D. could be caused from poor short-term and working auditory memory. Poor scores on P.S. could also be caused from slow or impaired visual processing or could be in the motor planning or implementation regions because both require writing. Helen may have more.

This is what I mean about the WISC having its problems for anyone really wanting to pinpoint wherein a problem lies. There are too many tasks to isolate the variable on the test.

The index scores (P.S. and F.D.) that you mentioned are, though, more reliable scores than taking one subtest of itself. Where one subtest might be 80-85% accurate, an index might be 90% plus. Averaging the numbers makes them more statistically accurate. Some subtests, I don’t believe, are included in the I.Q. score but could be included in the indices—Digit Span and Symbol Search might be examples of this.

Freedom from Distractibility Factor (a misnomer — attention, concentration, and working memory describe it better) includes Arithmetic and Digit Span.

Processing Speed Factor, or visual-motor, clerical speed and accuracy, includes Coding & Symbol Search.

I don’t think the Freedom from Distractiblity Factor is to useful since working memory is so different then attention. If the child has working memory problems then they are going to score low but this doesn’t mean the child has attention problems or visa-versa.

Processing Speed is more clear cut. As the child gets older they are penalized if they are slow giving a low score. A child with visual-motor problems (difficulty with fine motor) will score low. Again if a child is a perfectionist then they could also score low. My own son’s processing speed index dropped considerably with age as he was penalized for going slow due to visual-motor problems. A low processing speed can be an indicator of dysgraphia.

Helen

Try http://alpha.fdu.edu/psychology/WISC-III%20Description.htm They are made up of groups of subtests; as the child gets older, they need to get the speed bonuses to increase their performance subtest scores, and thus the processing speed index. Processing speed is an indication of the rapidity with which the child can mentally process simple info. without making errors. Freedom from distactibility is the ability to attend to and hold info. in short-term memory while performing some operation or manipulation on it.

Wow, thanks Helen, this does explain a lot. I now see why he scored so low in these areas. Memory is a major issue for him and visual processing, auditory processing and definitely being a perfectionist slow him down considerably.

nt

The school keeps pushing ADD because of his attention problems. I know he’s not ADD and the pediatrician, psychologist and neuropsych confirmed it.

I was afraid with the really low Freedom From Distractibility(87) and Processing (98) that they might continue to push the issue. I really feel that the school wants him medicated because I really think that they do not know HOW to adress the memory issues.

Am I right that if you have memory issues along with auditory processing and visual processing, your attention will suffer greatly?

How do I get this point across and help them to help my son address these issues in the classroom?
I know how to help him in everyday situations but I can’t be with him during the school day, and it is certainly a different ballgame where education and memory cross.

Thank you in advance

How did the pediatrician, psychologist, and neuropsychologist explain his attention issues?

In first grade, I heard rumblings about attention with my son. Then he was diagnosed as having a central auditory processing disorder (CAPD). I thought this was the explanation. We did Fast Forward after first grade and, according to the resource and slt who had him both years, his attention was much improved.

Then we heard the same things last year. My son too has memory, auditory processing, and visual processing issues. Very hard to sort out. I finally ended up seeing a neurologist who said that kids with severe learning disabilities, like my son, almost always have ADD.

I still am not sure but am going to do a trial of medication in fall. I sometimes think that he is inattentive because it is hard not it is hard because he is inattentive.

What kinds of things do you think the school could do to address his memory issues? This is something we struggle with too but I have never seen anythng they could do, other than check his agenda book, put him in a structured classroom where routines are well established. Would be interested in other ideas.

Beth

Since ADD is a medical diagnosis and not an educational diagnosis tell the school that you have seen medical professionals and they have told you that he is not ADD. I agree with Beth that kids who have LD’s have to work so much harder in the classroom that they get tired quicker and become inattentive.
Have you been in the back of a room listening to a speaker but because of the sound system or lack of one it takes so much effort to try listen that you just give up. I think LD kids have these type of experiences daily in the classroom.

Helen

I say, hold your ground. If your medical/psych professionals don’t diagnose it, school personnel are really out-of-their league because it isn’t an educational diagnosis and symptoms of other disorders may present like ADHD…

I’ve seen school counselors try to use FD score to insinuate ADD or ADHD. When I’ve looked them dead in the eye and asked (as a parent advocate, not school employee), if they are trying to tell me that they can diagnose or are suggesting to diagnose ADHD/ADD from the WISC, they back right down. Benefit of having a knowledgeable witness at the IEP meeting! They get frosty, though.

Sorry for butting in…

This is where I get confused. Is it a behavior, or a real diagnosable medical condition? Our neuropsych and psychiatrist have both said my son is not ADD. (And I actually think they are right) and yet other neuropsychs who have reviewed his testing say “hey kids like him sometimes respond to stimulant meds” . If the stimulants work than aren’t they addressing some underlying real medical biological chemical deficit? I certainly don’t want to avoid meds if they could make a real difference in his life. Sometimes I think noone really has a handle on all of this stuff….

Our neuropsych said the same thing, that he MIGHT benefit from stimulant meds but cautioned using it because of his high level of anxiety. But is he getting anxious because of the attention issues, I just don’t know.

The “lets try and see” is what makes me so nervous. And I think you’re right, no one really does have a handle on this stuff. Its all trial and error and the process of elimination.

I agree with everything you are suggesting. The thing I do fear though (because they’ve done this already) is the line that we are being uncooperative because we won’t accept the truth (their truth) about our son.

His symptoms just do not warrant medication at this time. I really think they just do not know how to handle kids with attention issues who are not medicated. It certainly makes their environment more friendly if these children are medicated.

I do not begrudge any parent who chooses meds for their kids, because I know it is effective in many cases. But definitely not all. So can’t they come up with strategies and coping mechs for kids who do not fit the med profile or whose parents choose not to med?

Thank you. I will stand my ground because I will not medicate just to make them happy. If the docs recommend it, we will consider it. Until that time, we need to help this child deal with his difficulties effectively.

I have a lot of first hand experience with ADD and CAPD…it is a tough call either way meds or no meds…but the important thing is to think what is best for the child and it doesn’t hurt to try medication if a behavior modification program isn’t working…keep an open mind is my motto.

I have worked with one child who was taken off meds because the psychologist who tested him said he wasn’t ADD and that he didn’t need medication. But the psychologist didn’t even think about how he did in a classroom situation….The kid did well one on one but he couldn’t control his wandering mind in a classroom or during small group instruction. Prior to his being seen by a psycholgist his pediatrician had put him on Adderall but becuase of the psychogists recommendations…the mother took him off the meds without telling the pediatrician who had prescribed the medication and the next thing I knew, his self esteem and grades plummeted, and his ablility to focus as well.

The mom called the psychologist, he said that her son was such a slow methodical kid and that it took an inordinate amount of energy to process information especially when reading and that it was probably a good idea to put him back on Adderalll …so she started him back up and he was doing good again….Incidently, this child’s dad has the same problem… he was always struggling to hold things together, missing deadlines, working 14 hour days and not getting things done…once he saw the improvement in his son he tried meds and what a difference it made in him as well.

Here is a freightening story for you. A friend of mine was told by the school, several years ago, that her 6 yr. old should be put on medication. They provided the name of a Dr. who never tested or examined the child just wrote the Rx.

Mom said forget this and put her in private school she is doing great.

Be careful.

Our school was almost the opposite. They put attention as part of his IEP and tried various ways to address it. When I asked for more information like systematic observations, they were very careful to tell me they couldn’t diagnose ADHD. I told them I knew that—I just wanted to know what they observed, and under what conditions.

Beth

nt

Marion,

I also think one must be carefull. I have a relative who was put on meds and never had his LD or SI needs met. He had many very obvious LD and SI issues that were just addressed by more meds. I think he was on 4 in total. I think the first one helped so they just kept going that route. The poor kid was a mess.

One has to look at the whole picture and address all the issues. I certainly think the above story does not apply to any of the parents on this board who seem more prone to turning over every stone to get to what is right. I also think that meds are indicated for kids with true ADD or ADHD.

I just know that if you want meds you can get them fairly easily.

Question then: if both scores are low the more likely the child has ADD? Both my boys have low freedom from distractibility scores 75 and 77 but they both have average processing speeds 104 and 106. The oldest scores 77/104 was orginally dx’d ADD inattentive but was changed to CAPD later on. Meds never did help him just put him to sleep. The youngest scores 75/106 is dx’d with PDD-NOS. Both boys learn better with repeated teaching. They both scored a 106 on the learning portion of the WRAML. I find this thread very fascinating. Any thoughts?

A few years ago, some school psychs were trying to use low FD scores to evidence possible ADHD/ADD. It was my understanding then (and now) that no index score on the WISC or WAIS would be used in the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD. Is this your understanding, too?

>I still am not sure but am going to do a trial of medication in fall. I sometimes think that he is inattentive because it is hard not it is hard because he is inattentive. <

I felt this way for years. However finally at age 11, the neuropsych suggested that my son may have ADD because he showed low scores on tests that he should have been good at. I did take him to a neurologist and he reecommended Adderall XR or Concerta. We tried the adderal XR (half dosage)and then same day he took it, he becme much more attentive to the everyday world. He suddenly knew his left from his right, heard noise like the radio while he was engrossed in other actities. He can usually only handle one stimulation at a time. He remembered to turn off the lights behind him and he actually sorted out one of his drawers of his own free will. We went to the full dosage after two weeks but since there seemed to be too much appetirte suppression and he didn’t seem to gain improvement on the full dosage. So we just give him the half dosage.
Since I saw such a rapid improvement, I recommend that parents ignore all the evil hype (a lot of it comes from folks who only repeat what they hear) and give it a go. It only takes a few days to see if it works. I have met parents that have kicked themselves for not starting it sooner when they see what an improvement it made. I have also noticed that the MD’s who vilify ritilan and the parents are only General Practitioner’s , not neurologists or neuropsychologists. Most MD’s and other naysayers are ignorant of the full extent of the devastation of LD unless they experience it first hand as a parent.