WISC/WRAML

In 7th grade they should have along with you considered a reevaluation, did they?

Helen

Helen, the school so no need to repeat the test and neither did I. My son was receiving good serivices at the time and progress was being noted. In 7th grade he was in LD reading, writing, and math. In 8th grade he was in LD writing, math, and science. The school used his achievement tests given to the whole school to show he still had difficulties. They saw and I agreed no more need for testing. I am curious now to see what he would score. I have a private neueropsych who saw my youngest son and did an outstanding job. I am considering having her do the re-evaluation because I know how she works and that she gives very detailed reports. My son is holding his own this his freshman year in all regular ed classes. I was told that since he was dx’d ADD, inattentive type that his IQ might show a decrease over time, but I have noticed a steady increase in his abilities so don’t think this is holding true. I was mainly posting though to let others now that kids with scores that would be considered concerning can do well when supported.

Speaking for myself, the reason that I have been posting scores is not that I believe that my son is not learning nor that he is not capable of learning because of the scores.

I am looking for the truth as to where his strengths and weaknesses really lie. With the schools version of the story, it is what they are willing to provide; that is the extent of the story I have heard.

Therefore, I do not believe that I have learned anything of value about my son from the school. Why, because if they bring it up, they would have to work on it. I have found out sooooooo much from the gracious people on this board. Things I would have never known because the school, and the outside professionals that we have seen so far, either do not know or fail to explain things properly; or I am willing to admit, I may be a moron and need it explained several times before I actually get it.

Our neuropsych (who is highly regarding in the Chicago area) gave a very incomplete report. The scores were there, but little to no explanation and it cost us $2,400. To get more information from her, about her own report, we would have to make another appointment at $250/hr. The school gave a report but scores were never explained, it was the big picture that was presented, and again, only what they were willing to address.

So the interpretations, advice, suggestions and even just the shoulder one gets by posting here is a god-send. Now that I know so much more, I am able to advocate effectively.

Thanks for sharing your story and vote of confindence for everyone.

Little lulu, my post was just to show that given the right instruction this children can and do learn. I agree the right enviroment and program is vital to this. Child X may learn better in the mainstream, and child Y with the same difficulties may need a self contained classroom as you are asking for. My youngest son who is dx’d PDD-NOS is in a self contained class, their is another student in my sons same school with the same dx who does better in the mainstream. Even children within the same diagnostic category or children with similar profiles do not learn the same as each other. Another good example is my oldest son and his best friend. Both boys had the same dx, the same profile, the schools in ND felt that these boys needed the same placement, the regular ed room. My sons best friend was able to progress in this enviroment and made steady gains, my son did not. When we got to our new district here in Illinois they felt he needed some self contained classroom instruction, after 2 years in an enviroment of some LD classes and some regular ed classes he started to progress. My whole point was Yes a test score or scores can provide important information but it is only part of the picture. I think it is crazy the price you paid for your neuropsych. My youngest son saw when here (southern part of state) it cost us 1200, the report she gave was very comprehensive with lots of information just not scores. She even wrote in her report the right atmosphere for my son, and suggested programs for the school to use. I do believe from everything I have read about your child that he would excel in the type of self contained classrooms they have here.

I’m sorry, I guess I should have reread your post before I posted. I absolutely see your point now.

You are right, my son would most definitely benefit being self-contained for subjects of reading, spelling and math.

Did you have difficulties having the school see this point of view (proper environment) or did they suggest it to you. We have had GREAT difficulty convincing the school that not all children fit the inclusion model. They refuse to budge.

I would love to know how to use the scores to prove this to be true. That is the info I was hoping to obtain by posting the scores. So far no luck. Looks like it is subjective in nature just like everything else about Special Education.

You are perceptive and so right on the “school thing.” If we ignore a problem, it doesn’t exist…right?

Schools used to like to put the whole…”what do you expect, his ability is *only* low-average” or “…*only* average?” Now, with new data on IQ as a poor predictor of reading ability, that tired excuse will need to be put to pasture.

We could do a tired excuse thread…but it might be too long and frustrating.

Little lulu, luckily for me the school in both my boys cases made the suggestion for the self contained rooms. For the oldest one their reasoning was that with his CAPD he needed a smaller class size to get the basics down. He was in an LD reading, writing, and math class. The youngest one falls on the Autism spectrum and has great difficulty with social skills along with basic skills. It was not their test scores that got them their placement but other factors. Both the boys are very shy and hae a tendancy to shut down when frustrated, the self contained classroom was the best way to deal with this. My oldest son who just started 9th grade has improved enough to be put back in the mainstream class. I dont know if they youngest will ever be able to make the move but we are hopeful. I think in your sons case you should present his anxiety as the reason for the need for self contained and not his scores. Maybe this approach will work.

Schools also use the excuse that if a student’s achievement is even low-average, that’s the end of services although their ability is superior and above.

But, we must also remember that not all teachers/schools use excuses. And, speaking as a parent who made many excuses for my child’s poor behavior, parents are also prone to the excuse/blame syndrome. Guess it might be human nature…although not very productive behavior.

One would expect, though, that the teacher would be an objective, neutral party, eh?

Here in CA it would be hard to find a self-contained LD classroom. What happens in many cases is the child who could have benefited from a self-contained LD classroom as Lisa’s son has becomes so frustrated in the regular classroom that the district wants to label them Emotionally Disturbed. With the ED label they now have a classroom somewhere that they can stick the child in but it really isn’t a good match. So much for the full continuim of services here. Our middle school offered LD math and study skills. The study skills class was to support the regular classroom work not to offer remediation. My own 9th grader attended the study skills class in 6th grade. In 7th and 8th while still on an IEP he did not attend study skills. Since in 8th grade he was so disorganized he will be attending 9th grade study skills. Whilde the study skills model works fine for my son it doesn’t offer what some needy LD students need.

Helen

What I get tired of hearing from school is how they twist things to fit their point of view. When they don’t like the way he’s reacting to the pressure they put on him, he’s “oppositional”. When he can’t organize his materials, or handle a task without adult prompting, he “should be able to do this in __ grade.” Another one I love is, “He should know enough to ask for help when he needs it.”

When I point out that I think he should be doing better in an area, and that his Ed plan should address it, they tell me, “well, you know he’s NLD… he may NEVER be able to do that”.

They seem to use his disability as an excuse for not teaching him what I think he needs, but at the same they won’t cut HIM any slack when his disability stands in the way of doing things (usually not academic) that they think he should be doing.

It’s certainly not everyone at school that has this attitude, but I hear it enough that it gets tiring.

Karen

My son, with many NLD characteristics, was always out-of-sync and school told me these same things. I finally had to say, “look, he’s going to get there when he gets there. In the meantime, can we stay focused on positive things like teaching and the small behavior/social gains.”

It was like a constant “niggling” tug-of-war. That is not the collaborative partnership it takes to do the best for these difficult to teach kids. I didn’t feel like an equal partner on the team—I’m sure most parents don’t.

Just wanted to add that we do not have elementary self-contained classes for LD or EMH where I live in NC. Two hours a day of resource is about the most direct service these children will receive and most get less. Inclusion is the big thing here. Too bad they don’t understand that remediation must come before inclusion.

Janis

It gets old to keep having to repeat “Yes, I realize that most nth graders have that independent skill. Because of his disability, my child doesn’t. What steps do you propose to TEACH him that skill? If he were going to acquire it magically, it probably would have happened already — at least if you’re hoping for it to magically happen, write that in the IEP after that objective. Student will use time management skills to organize and complete long-term assingmnets on time is our goal… Merlin will wave his wand, and the teacher will joyfully evaluate.

In the “inclusion” section of “for teachers” in LD In Depth there’s some fascinating research on what *actually* happens to students in LD classes (as in not participating/learning).
But I wouldn’t count on it convincing your admins. They have their budgets, the decision is made, and you are JUST A PARENT WHAT DO YOU KNOW???

NT

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Seriously, they always include in my son’s goals that he will be doing grade level work independently by the end of the year. And by the end of the year he usually IS doing grade level work with prompting… But he’s hasn’t ever gotten to real independence yet, and CERTAINLY not on long-term projects.

The trouble is that novelty always slows him down, and everything about school is novel. I don’t see this as a problem that is likely to ever go away completely in the school environment.

Karen

Speaking of what a parent knows? When I walked into the principal’s office with a private evaluation that said dual exceptionalities and she needs to have a program that addresses BOTH, (after they had told me for 1-1/2 yrs “not to worry, she’s just developmentally delayed”), I started out the IEP meeting with “Obviously I know my child better than anyone sitting at this table…”. From day 1 they haven’t liked me, but they do take care of my daughter.

(When I get older and out of the trenches, I am sure I am going to find some of this humorous).

Karen - do you find that he starts out the year in a blur? and then seems to catch up and do a little better? That’s been my experiencewith my daughter (novel things throw her - tho she’s pretty good at faking it)

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You know what, though, we are the sad exceptions to the rule. I only have had a few parents in my entire career who were experts on their child’s disability and could poitively advocate for their child. Right now, I have several students without assistive technology that is required on the IEP because of an administrator not getting the equipment serviced over the summer. Not ONE of these parents has called to complain. I complain, but do you think I get anywhere as a teacher??? If this were my child, one day would be the max my child would be without the equipment.

Janis

Novelty throws his processing time right out the window. He can’t do ANYTHING. While the beginning of the year is worst since he’s been out of Montessori, we see this cropping up again and again during the year as they start new units, or move on to new material. After several exposures to new material, he does very well. Then they’ll start something new, but similar, and the teachers just don’t get that he’s back to not being able to handle it.

Karen

He’s got a wire-haired terrier of that name (but generally goes by “merle”).