Digit Span and reading

I’ve posted before about the perils of indiv. subtest analysis…that said, my son’s 2nd gr. digit span was 12, and he was a nonreader at the time(2nd gr) and in 5th grade digit span was 15 and his reading was sigificantly delayed, although improved.

I think this was very informative. Thank you helen

Was this a ‘raw’ digit span as tested by what was indicated in article or the digit span subtest like on the WISC? If like on the WISC, this is not the same thing. The WISC is calculated totally different - the number you see is a ‘standardized’ type number, not a raw digit span and you don’t know if it measured auditory digit or visual digit. It’s very easy to test your child and you want to test both visual and auditory. Normal is a 7 and you want to be at a 9. Some kids can be really skewed too - they may have a photographic memory visually, but very poor auditorily or vice versa.

The article referenced looks like it came right out of the NACD site. NACD wants their clients to be at a digit span of 6 before starting phonics. Until they reach that level, they have a sight word technique they use so as not to hold the child up - get them reading something and feeling some success.

We found our dd only had a digit span of a 2-3 (2yr to 3yr old) at age 6. This was one of the reasons she just could not remember anything. NACD’s flash card technique worked well with our dd (it is kind of similar to Audiblox’s reading exercise). We saw a real connection to her ability to remember the sound/symbol and connect the sounds to form words with each increase in digit span.

This reminds me of my Logic class in college.

Some kids with reading disability have low digit spans.
Some kids with high digit spans have reading disabilities.

There are multiple reasons for a reading disability but I still think that it makes sense that if a child has a low digit span that they probably have short-term memory problems that might give them problems chunking and learning to read.

Helen

Thank you. I thought this was really informative too. I liked the whole website. Has anyone taken the nuero approach?

I have two boys one is 10 he is in 4th grade, he has resource for reading, english and spelling. He started resource the second half of last year. His memory is one minute he will know something the next minute he won’t, he may not know today but might next week. His reading level has improved, but he is slow in doing the work and his teachers are already saying he is capable if he would apply himself. btw He repeated K. Oh and he doesn’t seem to get phonics.

My other boy is 9 he is in the 3rd grade he does fine with reading. His problem is his writing and he tells me he forgets too easy. He is working with an OT this year for writing. He also can learn spelling words for a test but later misspell them in his stories.

I am not as knowledgeable on all the words used here.

It would be nice if there is a “cure” with nuero route. What do you all think?

I went to the nacd site and saw software(brain builder)

flash cards sound, well, cheaper

further info please

Yes, there are couple different things you can do with flash cards. As far as digit span, you can create your own set and do it manually vs. with Brain Builder. We did this for a while when we just could not get the intensity with BB anymore. We created a whole stack of flash cards with numbers on them (i.e if working on digit span of 5, you would have 5 numbers, digit span of 6, write down 6). You can use them auditorily and visually. Auditorily - you (parent) verbally say 4,9,3,7,8 and they have to repeat this sequence after you. Give them like 4 attempts, REWARD for correct attempts (we used the spare change jar - got 25c. if correct 1st time, 10c. 2nd attempt, 5c. 3rd attempt, 1c. for last.) You want to throw in the next higher digit sequence periodically too - I would reward 25c. if they got correct on any attempt. Do this for like 5-10min and then visually for 5-10min. every day.(show child for a good sec per number, take away and have them repeat). MAKE IT A GAME, MAKE IT FUN, KEEP EXTREMELY POSITIVE!! Have child do it to you and you can see how hard it is and they don’t feel like failures. Working on BB and digit spans, the child has immediate failure and you will find it very difficult to get them motivated to do it if you don’t make it fun.

You then want to do seqencing of day to day activities. This will build working memory. Make up simple short stories that have 4, 5, 6 etc. parts. Ex. Sam went to the grocery store and bought some gum, he then had a picnic in the park, after the park he played in a baseball game and then he went home and read a book. Have the child repeat. Make up directions - make them silly and unrelated - take the ketchup out of the fridge and put it in the sink, jump up and down 2 times, kiss the table, do a somersault. There are lots of things you can sequence in everday life. Do these for like 5-10min. several times a day if you can -work them into your daily routine.

Those are ideas to work on digit span that cost no money. NACD also has a flashcard technique they use to ‘input’ sight words- it really worked with my dd when she was in Kindergarten. My post is getting long- so let me know if you want to know how to do that?

Like I posted above - this site is EXACTLY out of the NACD program. I would bet they are somehow affliated with each other - use the exact same terms etc.

We were on program with NACD for about a year. It is a Neurodevelopmental approach. I learned a TONS. It was costly as we had to travel to Utah for our evals, then you pay for the eval and ‘program’, I then went to the parent training class so I could do our own evals and write up our own program. I still VERY much believe in NACD and the approach they take.

HOWEVER, 9mo. into the program, I realized we just couldn’t sustain it anymore. I still use alot of the knowledge I gained from them in child management, how to motivate your child to be able to home teach them and even the neurodevlopmental as it relates to intensity, duration, frequency.

NACD does have REAL success stories on LD kids who have been ‘cured’ so to say (NACD will say they are just better organized neurodevlopmentally - they do not like to label kids) and I know of real cases of families with brain damaged, autistic, downs symdrom where they have done just miracles with these kids (DS kids reading above grade level in 1st grade etc.) I’ve talked with these families on many occaisions - NACD has a good support network internally for it’s families on program.

BUT - you have to have the proper expectations. These parents of these ‘success’ stories were absolutely superparents in my opinion. I beleive to have the stamina to do the program, you need to be homeschooling and have a great support network available to you to help with implementing program (friends, neighbors, relatives, church etc.) We didn’t have any of that and thus just could not keep it up. The program itself is very simple easy things to do, but it’s like an exercise program and you have to do it every day, many times a day.

We did see alot of improvement the time we were on program. So much that our dd’s ‘functions’ were not nearly as bad when we started and she is really doing very well at time being. We saw dramatic improvement - it was during our NACD days that she went from the bottom of the class to the top of the class in Kindergarten in like a 6mo. period.

Sorry -I could go on for hours on our experience and what we did and what you can expect from a neurodevopmental program. If you have any questions let me know.

I have a friend who did 2 years/5 hrs. daily with her son of NACD. It was basically worthless.

I think most people lack the right intensity and most people can’t implement the program to how you really need to. You have to be a special kind of person/parent/mother to really do it effectively in my opinion. You may be doing it everyday, but if you lack the intensity (child is bored, and you are bored, tired, frustrated) then it will be a waste of time. Been there!

I didn’t agree with everything they did. I didn’t like their approach to reading per se - they did not have a good phonics reading program and they admitted that they still had kids that just didn’t get it. I also had very mixed feelings on dominance switching. We never did achieve all our goals, but my dd’s function improved to where I didn’t feel it was worth the work and pain to continue.

But we did see alot of success in digit spans, early academic success in reading and math, and I learned ALOT about how to motivate and keep a positive learning environment, and teach my kid. Their little techniques and tips worked to my amazement with my dd and I continue to use them. Many are simple little things too.

I appreciate your information.
I am so tempted to homeschool my oldest son but am scared!
I tested him on his dominance…he is left handed and right everything else, but I am right handed and left everything else. So made me a little leary.
Have you ever heard of the book Falling through the Cracks by Stephen Shapiro. I heard about it on Point of View one day but I caught it in the middle, they have excersices in the book but I am not sure if it was just for the eyes.

Thanks a bunch.

Shelly,

My son also had mixed dominance. I myself have mixed hand dominance but never struggled in school. I was counseled by several different therapists to get him one had dominant. It is easier on the brain if one hand dominates.

Linda F

You asked if any LD’s were cured. I don’t know about cured bu I do know the work of the folks at NILD works wonders for LD students. Go to nild.net to learn more. Also Reuven Feuerstein has worked wonders with students with DS and Autism with his enrichment instruction.

Almost everyone is neurologically disorganized to some point. There’s alot of different perspectives on dominance. I think it’s more important to establish dominance in your ear and eyes. My dd is mixed in both ear and eye. I’m 100% right dominant in hand, foot, eye, ear. My son is also 100% dominant. My son reminds me alot of myself. My husband is a little mixed and my dd takes after him. So I believe there is some genetic link to dominance (why there are so many families that have lefties - my husbands family actually has a bunch).

Per Bob Doman(NACD) - you only need to be concerned about dominance if you are below normal ‘function’. He states that if you are below your function level (i.e. LD), the 2 best things you can do for yourself is to establish dominance and increase your digit spans. If you can’t do both, then do one of them.

I was not comfortable with the occluding you have to do to switch dominance. There is another ‘camp’ that feels you don’t need to switch, you just need to make both sides of brain work better together. Dr. Tomatis believes that it’s most important to have your right ear dominant. There is a piece of the Tomatis program that works your right ear(which is unique to Tomatis - the other sound programs don’t do this).

It is interesting tho - everytime this topic of dominance comes up on the board - I don’t know anyone who has a child that is 100% dominant and LD? Everyones does seem to have some sort of mixed dominant aspect to them.

p.s. for those who have kids that have problems with reversals - they say this is an eye dominance issue. You probably are left eye dominant in near-point and far point? My dd still has some issues with reversals.