This group projects thing

Sounds GREAT to me…thank you!

Not just with this message board but with many, many others…

What you are describing, each contributing according to ability, successful collaborative efforts, emphasis on learning and gains, not on arbitrary benchmarks (grades), etc. is an ideal that many, many of us have never seen ijn the real world. Let’s face it, when things are going well, whether it is with our children and their schools or just life in general, you don’t frequent message boards like this one chit-chatting about how great everything is. The people who come here are those who are either experieincing problems and looking for answers or who have survived or beaten some pretty tough challenges and are trying to help others do the same.

So when people who wish to share more positive experiences post here, many of the others who have not had similar experiences and in fact have had some pretty bad turns may find themselves looking for the trap, or waiting for the other shoe to drop. After all, our children are not the only ones who have learned from the school experience, and nothing spreads faster than bad news.

Try not to let it get to you. Bottom line, we all want to help our children (I will assume that is a given). There are gonna be times when we just have to agree to disagree.

I wasn’t upset with anyone who posted here. I am upset w/the other mom who called Joanne about her daughter being held back. (That mom is a “hissy” mom because she is having a ‘hissy fit’ about her daughters projected points/grade.)

I am also upset w/teacher—or potentially so—for not setting a collaborative classroom climate.

I am also a parent whose child experienced this same kind of prejudice—and prejudice is what it is.

I share plenty of negative experiences here—both as a parent of (now) adult w/LD and as a (now) teacher of students w/LD. Yes, one drove me to the other.

The collaborative way of learning, without grades, is done every day in Montessori schools. My kids attended Montessori schools right up till high school. When they finally attended a regular (private) high school, the principal commented that she always recognized the Montessori kids because they’re the ones who work well with others, are still excited about learning, and don’t stress out over grades.

Later on in life, those qualities are the ones that work best in a society.

I’m still waiting for public school to “get it” - they now take bits and pieces of Montessori (but don’t give her credit), but miss the most important part of the program: the philosophy.

Professors in my graduate program are really in tune to “cultural diversity” and set up cooperative/collaborative learning environments. Every semester we are given a group project where we have to work as a cohesive group. I am very careful who I end up being grouped up with and at times some students have judged me unfairly because of my disability in addition I have had disasterous groups in some classes with students who were procrastinators and didn’t pull their share.

I now have a “study group” with 2 other students since being an undergraduate and we now group together on these type of projects if we are taking the same class. I am the creative artistic one that keeps everyone on task, one is the proof reader detail person, and one is good at assimilating the information. It has taken us 3 years to get this down to a “science.” The professors allow us to rate each other to make sure that we are “accountable” for our share of the project. There will always be differences in people, as in learning environments and job requirements. One of my professors so eloquently put it, you are having a “cultural experience” when you are thrust into an internship/group project; you have to learn to be cooperative and collaborative with your work partners and clients.

Sometimes environments for working are less than ideal and that is when one wants to batten down the hatches and do it alone, but perhaps they would be better equipped if they would look for a mentor to help them get through the rough seas.

My daughter is one of the kids like Susan’s who has LD’s but she is a great group partner, she does what she is assigned, she knows when to ask for help and she doesn’t procrastinate, but many of her classmates would write her off because of her dyslexia and language difficulties. It is a wise teacher who can see beyond the differences and see the abilities and can pair kids up in a collaborative learning environment.

I think what some of these moms don’t get is that a group project is a different bear than regular work and kids who may not shine in traditional academics, may shine here. My daughter, who is not LD, but is not a class leader in anyway seems to become different in group projects. She is rather artsy and she is the one suggesting all sorts of cool ways to go about things. When I expressed concern last year about her having only one best friend, her teacher told me how well she worked with others in group settings.

I think these moms are horrid snobs and have a very narrow view of what “smart” is. I am not sure it is the teacher who is doing it—sounds like the kids are doing just fine. It is the adults that are the problem!!

Beth

Good points…and we did them, too. With the right professor, they are super learning experiences. My fav was an Ed Psych guy who didn’t believe in grades. People would freak out afraid of losing a good grade because they are so controlled by A’s & B’s. This prof could care less—gave everyone an A who could learn to play nicely with others and forget about grades for one class. I learned more in that class than any other I took. Pure learning freedom!

You must be mistaking me w/another Susan…my kid never completed any assignment without a fight…or at least that’s how I remember it. :-)

How goes it? Your son is home?

Well, you may have had good group learning experiences, but I and my daughter have had nearly universally negative ones.

In a lot of group projects, many group members simply don’t work, and those of us with some self-respect, even if we aren’t terribly grade-driven, end up holding the bag and doing the entire project and giving the rest a free B or A.
In others, kids with low academic skills will insist on things that are simply wrong, and in my daughter’s junior high school the illiterates outvoted the literates two to one; she actually failed a state reading assessment where she was grouped with four illiterates, although in fact she read better than her teacher.
In a grad-school education class where we were supposed to be discussing the project, I was shouted down and told to be quiet and not interfere (? I was assigned to be a member of the group — offering my opinions and knowledge is interfering?) by the person organizing the simulation.

Group work is in style right now and I’d love to find out how to do it right, but up to now all I’ve been taught is ten ways to do it wrong.

I totally agree. What others have posted about group prjects sound wonderful and ideal BUT I have not had those experiences with any of my daughters (in grade 7 & 10). I don’t mind group projects as long as it is for the expereince and the students are not being graded for it.

I am one of those teachers who assign group projects. At my previous university I taught a management class where I assigned two group projects. The students were with the same group all semester. The first project was structured, the second was not. I will tell you that my students frequently told me that they learned more from their group project than anything else in the class. (One of the last homework assignments was Tell me two the two most important things you learned in this class. More than half the students talked about their groups.)

A couple things I learned the hard way that make a tremendous difference. 1. no more than four or five people to a group. 2. Have a structured situation if the group has never worked together before. 3. set up guidelines and expectations for working together—I discuss group processes in class and then I may them come to agreement on their “rules”, write them down, and turn them in. 4. The teacher must be available as a resource. I had a few disasters—one group where there were racial tensions, another where a woman was really mentally ill. 5. There is a lot of value of working with the same people multiple times. Slackers don’t slack as much—and others don’t tolerate as much. It is much more like a real organization—where your reputation is worth something. In my class, students could fire a group member. It didn’t happen often but it did happen.

Beth