HELP!

Rose,

I saw down below that you are in Marin. If you have not seen this Marin Count Grand Jury report on Special Education you sould read it. It soud like an environment that works against serving the special needs child. It is scary because the want to get the word out that dollars spent on Special Education take money away from the education of regular education children. This kind of mentality will pit regular education parents against special education parents.

http://www.co.marin.ca.us/depts/GJ/main/cvgrjr/2001gj/EDUC-4_Final_Draft_042202.pdf

Helen

but if the teacher truly feels in the middle, well, she is one stressed out lady. Her job may be on the line and I certainly can sympathize with anyone in that position

I would give her her space for now.

When I was kindergarten aide I readily admit that we did not appreciate siblings playing with classroom toys. Many did not pick up or put away- tiny pieces were misplaced or taken home in pockets and we worried about some of the very young ones swallowing tiny items

Now if it was a scheduled meeting of some sort we had things available for the siblings and put up items we had concerns about. But just chatting at drop off or pick up…I think she is behaving ‘normally’

Rose,

One thing that struck me when I read your message is that she used to give your child and family considerable latitude (playing with toys while waiting) and now she has become a rule stickler. The rules aren’t unreasonable—just different. I was just thinking that you need to see if she is singling him out in some way or not attending to his needs before deciding that she is causing your son harm. I think she used to go out of her way to be helpful and she isn’t anymore. That doesn’t necessarily mean (although it could) that the classroom environment is not beneficial to him anymore. She clearly doesn’t want to be perceived as taking your side or giving you preferential treatment.

Beth

Her behavior wasn’t normal in that it was not at all the same as her interactions with my children in the past. The inconsistancy has them confused. My child that is not in her class is a very sensitive and well behaved six year old and the teacher knows that. If her behavior toward my children had always been so cranky, I could just pass it off as being her personality instead of believing that she is taking out her frustration on my children. What’s more if it was just her personality to be so harsh with children I would have found another teacher for my child a long time ago.

I did see the report and found it very disturbing. It was as if the investigation consisted of talking to the director of the Marin County Office of Education and that was it. How dare these people criticize our children for education dollars spent on their services. We bring our children to the schools looking for help and all we get is one battle after another. It’s so hard for us as parents to have to watch our children struggle and not know if they will be able to become independent adults and productive members of society why do we have to deal with the additional stress of people be so mean? I feel my son is riding the line between needing extensive and expensive special education support year after year if he doesn’t get the help he needs now or if he does get the help he needs… I think he could get through school wih minimal support and accomodations. The child wasn’t able to call me mommy until he was three years old. To this day, any affection from him is fleeting and precious.

I also went out of my way to be helpful to her. Part of the reason I was around and talking to her so much is that I was the one who organized and provided for all of the classroom holiday events. I brought in supplies and facilitated art and cooking projects. I donated half the things on her wish list. Often I was there to talk to her how much I valued her teaching skills. She knows more about teaching communication handicapped children to talk than anyone else I’ve ever spoken to. Part of the reason I am so angry is that I thought we had a good relationship and now I feel very betrayed. I believed that she was being honest with me even if we didn’t always agree on everything. Her expertise and experience was in the area of language not autism so sometimes we had discussions about things we disagreed about. One thing I thought I could count on was her integrity. As it turned out, I was wrong to trust her, I was wrong to believe she would tell the truth and I was wrong to count on her integrity.

I understand how you feel betrayed. You saw her as more than an employee of the school and thought she saw you as more than just a parent. I guess all I was saying is that she may still be doing a good job teaching your son, despite a change of approach towards you. You said you were looking for a private placement but were not having any luck. I was just trying to say that you might not need to for your son’s sake. Now, you may need to be out of there—because it is too difficult for you emotionally, but that’s a different kind of issue.

Beth

P.S. I just wanted to add that I have read your posts about your son and truly have a hard time understanding why they are so resistant. It just doesn’t seem like you are asking for that much. Why are they putting you and this teacher through so much for so little?

Beth

I agree. I was just writing in response to an earlier post that I don’t think that we could differ that much on what is appropriate for my son but that we may never know because they are refusing to discuss his placement with us. I think that part of the problem is that they had gotten away with being out of compliance with special ed laws while I was attending IEP meetings without my husband. My husband is a lawyer and after he found out about the stunts they were pulling in the IEP meetings he finally decided to get involved. He brought a court reporter to a meeting and they have been on the defense ever since. I think they know they have been doing tings that are out of compliance and are afraid that we are going to ask for the moon so they are more interested in collecting evidence to defend themselves than in doing right by my son.

Rose they are covering there butts big time. They know you are knowledgable and have probably told the teacher she has overstepped her bounds and possibly threatened her job. You stated, “his teacher seems to be going out of her way to make me feel that my child’s emotional safety is in danger there”. I think that says a lot. It sounds like a warning that your child will not get the education at that school that he got in previous years and that he may emotionally be harmed. Read the following: Retaliation: California School Administrators Develop an “Enemies List”

http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/Enemies_List.html

Helen

doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you. Hey, anybody have any idea how to get a hold of that list. These are people I want to get to know.

Rose,

There is a parent named Sally on a list that I belong to who seems to be strongly advocating as a parent in Marin. If you are interested you can email me and then I would email you and see if she is interested in connectting with you. I think she has a seven-year-old but she has been in the system for years.

Helen

I know who Sally is. As a matter of fact, I just left her a message yesterday. Thanks for the “retaliation” info. There is so much on the Wright’s Law site that I find it overwhelming… even after having been to one of his conferences. Something else I discovered there is another way in which my son’s school has been out of compliance. He was being put on the bus home so early that I complained about it to the school administration and the bus company and they both blamed the other for the problem. I’m talking a half hour per day… assuming 180 school days in the year, I think they owe my son another 90 hours of education. I have so had it with these people. They chose the wrong family to mess with. Truth be told, I’m kind of a wimp but my husband has more than enough muscle for the both of us. One important thing I have to work on is to stop trusting people. I’ve been hoping the our new district rep can help resolve things but until she does something tangible to show me that she’s actually doing something besides just acting sincere, I have to accept that she is just another potential witness for the defense. I found “Retaliation: A Primer.” If anyone is interested it’s at: http://www.sacramentolda.org/observer/obs14/retaliat.htm

Before you take any retaliatory action, I (as a person who blows my top rather too easily myself) would recommend some cooling-off time.

You aren’t in the teacher’s shoes so you don’t know what else happened. It is entirely possible that the principal came by and heard one of your friendly visits with her and called her on the carpet for favouritism and told her that other parents are complaining, and it’s also entirely possible that another parent eavesdropped and reported a distorted version to the principal with a deliberate aim of making trouble. It’s happened to me, so why not to her? It is entirely possible that she has a violent and destructive child in her class this year and has had to go on the defensive and make and enforce very strict rules about touching, against her own preferences, in order to prevent chaos. It has happened to me, so why not her too? It’s possible that her husband is going neurotic and keeping her awake all night yelling at her about imagined faults. It has happened to me, so maybe her too. It’s entirely possible that the school administration has loaded her with an impossible class situation, schedule, and workload that would drive Mother Theresa into screaming rages. And that has certainly happened to me and to many other teachers.
You have said that this teacher does a good job of teaching. Try to focus on that and wait a bit before making the situation even more stressful. If you can bring yourself to be positive, you might even try to ask her in a friendly way if she is having any problems starting the year and if you can help. You may get an earful (if there aren’t any eavesdroppers) but then you’d know, and maybe there is even something solvable. Or maybe you and your husband should be aiming at a different target — the administration often messes with teachers even worse that with parents.

The article on retaliation that I was refering to is about the pattern and practice of school administrators retaliating against parent’s who advocate for their children. I have not threatened to retaliate against the teacher… although now that you mention it… perhaps I could find some tar and feathers somewhere.

Rose,

I know you feel hurt and betrayed by the teacher but please it is the system, the school district, someone who is a position of control who deserves your anger. You should probably get ahold of Pete Wright’s book “From Emotions to Advocacy” to see how emotions can get in the way of advocating for your child; though it is always good to have some place safe to vent.

I’m glad you have another parent in your area to connect with. I don’t know Sally but have just read her posts.

Helen

I’ve got the book but I have to admit I haven’t looked at it fo awhile. I’ve been spending my time reading his book on IDEA and actual case law. I know I should look at it again, thanks for the reminder.

I couldn’t help thinking about this post since I read your original. I figured I might as well share a few of my thoughts.

I can remember vividly the hurt,turned into rage at the incredible behavior of my children’s school,and teacher’s while in the midst of war number III. I can honestly say in the end,the teacher’s finally realized that it was the district I was after,not them ,although I had a hard time not using letters sent back and forth as documentation of the situation my child was in. Unfortunately all is fair,in this war called getting FAPE for my kid.
Which brings me to my very first thought while reading your post. If I was,or felt close at all to court,or legal tussles with the school,or to be perfectly honest even just advocating for my kids,I would NOT,absolutely would NOT speak verbally to the teacher period. I would send a written communication,and if she or he did not respond I would send it again,and again,and again. Heck I faxed a letter everyday for a whole week until the director of sped decided he better finally respond.Course the last one was also cc’d to his boss:-)

My next thought was, what is the teacher’s perspective? How the teacher might be feeling,how hard it might be right now for this person. This or these thoughts brought me to my job as a nurse. I,as a lot of you all know work with prematurely born infants and toddlers. I wish like hell I liked my job more. Don’t get me wrong I LOVE my patients,but I hate the way the center in general is run. All are medicaid recipents,and a LOT of the time I wonder how we as a business can even justify billing them. I want to provide so much more.so much more stimulation,so much more therapy,so much more of a lot of things. I have one little girl,she is 9 months old. Born at 24 weeks gestation she has multiple medical problems all stimming from being a premature infant. Her left side is delayed,more so then her right. She hold her little hand in a fist,and doesn’t want to grasp for anything on this side. For weeks I have been opening her hand,putting things in it,and putting toys only on this side of her. It has proven to be very benificial,she was at last eval gained months developmentally. I have spoken to her very young mom on more then one occasion,telling her what I have been doing and what she needs to do at home. She has done it with enthusiasm. I showed her the “cause and effect” toys she needs at home,where she can buy them cheaply etc. So in other words her mom and I have made a good team. But she is still her mom and I am still her nurse. This little girl went into the hospital for surgery. I was worried about her. being 13 lbs at 9 months old,general anesthesia is a risk. Mom,doesn’t know this,Mom,wasn’t worried,Mom is more concerned about development,because this is what I have been talking about. ( I know you are wondering about the connection here,I am getting to it) Sooo,the day this little girl went into surgery,I waited to hear from mom,who promised to call me at the center and tell me how she was doing. She called the following day. She,mom,was really excited,I could hear it in her voice,I was worried. She is mom,I am nurse. She says guess what! I said what? She said,T is sitting up all by herself! I thought,what? What about her respirtations and her heart rate,for god sakes?? I must have sounded very unkind and uncaring to this mom,because I said,how did surgery go? Instead of,oh wow,she is sitting up! She said offhandedly oh okay,no problem, I got T some new toys,she is sitting up on her own,and she is soo busy playing she doesn’t know she is doing it:-) I said,does she have a dressing,how is her breathing? I know now I must have disappointed this mom,she wanted me to comment on her kids new ability,and her mommy skills,and what did I do? I acted like a nurse:-( Sometimes being the professional over powers the ability to put yourself in someone elses shoes.
I will make sure I let this mom know how good a job she is doing…

My point I suppose is, maybe this teacher is feeling the strain of wanted to just be the teacher?

The fact that I’m up at two in the morning writing the is evidence that I am still stressed but… having spent all weekend venting, meditating, reading and researching has defnitely helped me to have a better understanding of all the perspectives involved and how to deal with the situation. I am grateful to this site and the people hear who’ve been so supportive. I am no longer planning to communicate with my son’s teacher outside of recorded meetings or written communication because it doesn’t make anything better. I am concerned about the hostile tone she has taken with my children in my presence. Hopefully her behavior is just in response to my presence because she’s so mad at me for confronting her with her lack of integrity. My son does not have the language skills to tell me how things are going in class when I am not there to observe but as long as his behavior is not showing signs of regression I think it’s safe to leave him in her care for now. The one thing I did find out from talking to her was that she was so stressed out in the IEP meeting that she didn’t know what she had or hadn’t said. I guess I can see how she would see me as the enemy. She has to pick a side and her job security would be at risk if she didn’t side with her employers. She is probably angry about being in that position to begin with and then here I come rubbing it in her face by questioning her integrity. Then she gives me even more reason to question her integrity by her hostile behavior. So I suppose it’s all just a viscious cycle and the best thing for me to do is not talk to her at all. Anyway, thanks again for all of your support. Hopefully, I’ll be able to share good news with you all eventually.

Excellent plan! Use your energies to figure out what you are going to do next, Remember if you find an outside placement you must give district 10 days notice that you will be removing your child for a private placement if you want to try to get the school district to pay for the outside placement.

Helen

You know what’s sad about this (and situations like it)? It’s escalated into a battle that is “no win”…for the child. I wish people could see this before starting the war.

Janis

Yes,too bad the people starting the war care more about saving some money, then the kid they are suppose to be educating.

Let us not forget that in most cases the parents don’t just wake up one day and decide to get freaky with the school/and or their kid’s teacher:-)

However Socks, I assert that taking a court reporter the first (?) time the husband went to the IEP meeting was extremely adversarial. They lost the teacher at that point because she was given a gag order.

The simple presence of the attorney husband would have been enough for awhile. Schools do not desire litigation, regardless of what you might think. What makes me crazy is the big fights to get such ineffective service. We all know effective reading remediation needs to take place outside of school 99% of the time. However, the original poster did not ever really say what they were after, so I have no idea whether it was reasonable or not.

Effective communication is usually a result of extreme patience, kindness, and desire for a team effort. I will bend over backwards to see this accomplished for my students as well as with the staff at my child’s school. Thus far, in less than a year, I have gotten them to go for PG and V/V training. I can assure you, that was not accomplished by my taking an attorney to a meeting. It was done by working cooperatively with them and educating them.

You can go all the way to court and win big, and still have the kid lose at school….forever.

Janis

Let me just add, though, that there are situations that certainly need to be prosecuted. I just think a lot of times, what you get after an IEP court battle is more ineffective services. I always have the option of removing my child from the public school system if a mediocre education is not good enough. (And my child with special needs is NOT in the regular public schools, as a matter of fact. She is in a charter school).

But please remember that I am speaking generally…I do not know anything about this particular case.

I have often wondered what people were fighting for when they were fighting to get services or trying to get their children classified.

I have found that sped is pretty useless, so far. I think it is a pretty sad state of affairs. It appears to be a dumping ground for kids they are having a hard time with. That’s it. I have not seen anything effective come out of it.

In some ways I am sorry I ever had my son classified. I do not think the last year in sped has been helpful.
There is a committee that will be reviewing sped in our district. I plan on volunteering. I plan on asking that we look at scientifically proven methods of remediation for specific, identified deficits. I will ask what are we saving by not remediating children. I don’t want to fight but to look at things rationally and intelligently evaluate what is being accomplished.

We shall see if they even let me on the committee.

Linda,

My greatest hope is that the IDEA revisions will have a requirement that these methods be used. Apparently, everything has to be tied into funding if districts are going to be compelled to use them. It’s great to give input on a local level…believe me, I try, too. But I would not have my own child in the public school special ed. system, as I agree, many are not using MSSL approaches to teach reading (or not using them intensively enough to do any good). Ultimately, funding is everything…until caseloads are reduced so that the teachers could actually use the methods appropriately, it won’t do any good anyway.

Janis

Janis,

I live in a really well funded school district. All the bond issues get passed. There are very few lower income level students everyone is middle class or above. We have one on one reading recovery. Even with one on one this program is not effective. Why can’t it be one on one lmb or phonographix?

Also the inclusion class my child is in has a sped teacher with 6 students all day. The reg teacher teaches the other 14. I think these are great numbers, numbers that could allow for real remediation if effective methods were employed. If the child is unhappy and intimidated as my child is, the ratio doesn’t matter.

I do realize in many areas it is an issue with funding. I don’t think that is the issue where I live.

The letter I received for this commitee mentions analyzing the data for outcomes and processes. I am hoping they are really going to do this and that this won’t be just a paper pushing exercise to meet some state requirement.

Linda

You def. have a problem with programming. If they can manage one on one (don’t I wish), they certain can do it with more effective programming than Reading Recovery!!! What a waste of taxpayers money.

Beth

Wow, Linda! You are in a great situation…at least one with possibilities! Really, I find that most of my colleagues have simply never heard of PG or LB. I think it is a matter of educating people that there are effective methods out there. I need to be careful what I post here, but my director passed out these wonderful booklets at the beginning of the year which give the results of the National Reading Panel and NIH studies on reading research. Now that’s a start, but reading that systematic instruction of phonics is necessary is nice, but without the tools, it’ll never happen. And even moreso when it comes to the MSSL programs like OG and LB. When I asked to go to LB training, I was told that we didn’t need “programs” to teach effective methods. Okay…I’m sure that in my spare time I can recreate all the research LB has done over the last 20 or 30 years and make up an equally effective program…yeah, right!!!

Beth is right about RR. What a joke. Do people not read ANY research before they buy this stuff?

Janis

OKay Janis,I see your point ,please forgive my impulsive attempt at advocating. I believe this poster has spent much time,and energy,I could be wrong. While it is true,bringing a court reporter to the meeting brought on a very adversial situation,I will say for the record I will NOT go with anyone to their IEP meeting if they do not tape. I simply won’t go. It wastes too much time,there is never enough documentation and communication is ALWAYS lacking. Whether the parent misunderstood or the school did,it always seems to happen:-) Taping helps everyone,and just because the meeting is recorded doesn’t make a meeting adversial. If the school feels otherwise I would have to question why that is.

I truely appreciate the kind of teacher you are,and I appreciate your views. I totally agree that it is the kid who loses. Especially if the situation comes to a court case. One thing I always say is,if you go to court,do not expect things to change for your kid,be mindful that you will change, if you change anything, for others that come after him. Now why would someone want to spend millions,and years doing it? I wouldn’t,but I will be the first one to get on my knees and thank the ones who did.

I probably should of had at least one more cup of coffee,before I tackled your post. I suppose my point was,no one wants an adversial situation, but sometimes it IS what you have. The important thing is to know what to do when it happens. Spending too much time making someone feel bad for having to bring their child into it, is counterproductive,and the irony is, only the welfare of your child could make you endure the adveserial situation in the first place. Let’s face it Janis,I KNOW you would fight for your kid if you had to. Your fortunate that you don’t, but some of us do.

I know, Socks. I sure would fight if I had to! :-) I really appreciate your reply!

However, really, for my own sanity, I might be more likely to go and borrow money to send my child to private school or therapy and just forget the system!

You know, we are a lot alike. I have a VERY strong sense of right and wrong and see the injustices that make me bonkers everyday. Of course, I survive all that by just focusing on “my kids” and do the best I can for them. I would not compromise on anything major if I knew they would be hurt…I’d be a teacher who would quit if it came down to that and I mean it.

Our problem here is that most parents here don’t know enough to advocate properly for their kids. Sometimes little birdies have to give them little hints on what their rights are.

In my own life, I try to live by biblical principles, and one principle that I try and remember in this type of potentially adversarial situation is to love my enemies, and by being kind to them, it is like heaping burning coals on their heads. I figure that’s worth remembering! :-)

Janis

Absolutely true. Always smile at the meeting. Always thank them,always always treat them with the same respect you want for yourself.

You KNOW I left my school system! Mine are in a private school,I sure had to fight to get them there,and it was worth every battle:-)

Actually Janis,we are very much a like. I too have a job where the feeling of what is right and what is wrong often raises it’s ugly head. All I can do is make sure I take care of “my” kids. Sometimes that means helping their parents to advocate for them:-)But hell,if I lost my job,who would I be helping them then? I can honestly say I think I know how a good teacher might feel. How frustrating the job must be at times. Of course I know I can’t swallow this for too long,I will eventually have to be in a better place,just for my sanity. There goes that strong sense of right and wrong again. In the end I can not help knowing what the law says, to ask me to let it go,just because the other side doesn’t want to comply doesn’t make it right,right??

Well, I think you have to weigh what you will gain vs. what you will lose. In your case, you won big! I think most parents won’t get that far, so they do have to weigh the pros and cons of the after-effects of a fight on their kids who will more than likely remain in that school. Now I definitely think a parent needs to be firm at times and not just be a wimp! I was very assertive at my own child’s IEP meeting in a nice way. Of course, they all knew I knew more than they did about my child’s problems, so they pretty much went along with everything I said.:-) And of course, I don’t ask for anything unreasonable either.

The whole things requires balance. I sort of think I have a good perspecitve because of being in the field and also having a child with special needs. I know that there are good caring people who try to do their best for kids in the public schools. I work with some. The bureacracy is the biggest problem, next is ignorance, then comes lack of money.

I do have one more incentive to make things work in my own child’s case. I already have her in a charter school, and because we are in a small town, I have no other viable school choices except to homeschool. So I have extra incentive to make things work.

Oh, you know what we could get together to advocate on if we were in the same state, socks? Those awful high stakes tests!!! Ours is a sham. I have a student about 1 1/2 years below grade level in math and she passed the end of grade test last May!!! I guess that’s to keep parents proud and makes the schools look like everyone is learning, but really, some of us know better. Now that’s something I’m almost up for fighting about. Those poor kids will get up to Algebra and fail because they are not prepared and parents were deceived into thinking the child was okay. Many LD kids will have trouble getting a diploma in this state I am afraid, as Alg 1 is required for a diploma.

Janis

I agree you must weigh the pros and cons,in some cases homeschooling might just be the only option. I would have done this,before they would have remained in the school. I guess I just have a hard time with this,I have a hard time not fighting back. To me, it was empowering for my children. I also strongly agree that I would NOT allow my children to be hurt in order for me to prove a point etc. It was, for us, an all or nothing situation,never hid the truth from them,and never will.We were in it together,truely.

LOL,doing this:-) Since the last senate bill failed,the one good thing that came out of it, was the governor ordered a task force to go around the state and seek input from parents, teacher’s and yes,advocates,on appropriate accomodations for the state mandated testing issue. The use of the high stakes testing in general, is obsurd. I heard an interesting person speak though. A special ed attorney:-) Adult dyslexic who reads TODAY on a 6th grade level,YES,a 6th grade level,who stated that our state allowed more accomodations for him to take the bar exam then what would be allowed for the FCAT. This attorney,who successfully practices law,would not be able to attain a high school diploma today, if he was so unlucky to be 17 again.Betcha there are a lot of parents out there, that are happy he isn’t:-)( had to throw that in)

The thing is Janis,the only way things will change for ALL of us is when schools AND the federal government are held accountable to our children. This will only happen when we assert their rights for them.

That is super about that attorney!!! All it will take is one state to challenge these stupid tests and hopefully there will be a domino effect to cause other states to change. See, up until now, LD math students were the ONLY people in our state who could exempt the Algebra I requirement (another injustice, but…). But NOW, we have an exit exam, which is supposed to have Algebra content. As it now stands, everyone must pass it to graduate, no exceptions (usual accommodations usable, of course).

Well, in theory you are of course right regarding change and holding people accountable. But until we can force a school to use effective methods (like Lindamood Bell, etc.), I don’t think we can really win anything worthwhile. More of nothing still equals nothing, I am sad to say. And so often, the big winners of private LD schooling are people whose kids were much older and experienced failure for YEARS before the cases got to court. And of course, knowing what I know, I’d never let things go on that long. I’d pull my kid out long before then. Actually, our big year will be third grade (repeating first now) when she has the first big test. Then I’ll have an idea what we’re facing. (In the meanwhile, I’m hoping there are some LD parents with big bucks and a lot of time who are fighting this testing thing!).

And you know what? I could care less if my child ever takes Algebra as long as she learns to read!!!

Janis