Why I am glad we have an IEP instead of a 504

A student with an IEP automaticly recieves rights via the 504 sections of the antidiscrimination law. 504 is a section of a law. In this section it states a child with a disability has the right to and should have a plan . This plan includes accomodations within the reg ed classroom. Not unlike the accomodations you mentioned. If a child is in need of services via the special education teacher,then that child needs an IEP.If the accomodations are not being met,whether it is from an IEP or a 504 plan do not forget the school is in violation of both laws.

Sounds like what you’re describing would be accomodations in our Mass. district; but special ed. eligibility and services under an IEP differ from state to state; in our state(Mass.) and district, a student who just needed accomodations would have a 504.

Socks,

I am interested in having my son removed from sped. I still want the option for accomodations later if he needs them for writing (still his biggest problem area)

My son is now reading well and math is much better (thanks to phonographix, Victoria’s tips and therapy)
I want him out of sped for several reasons one being that he is always put with one child who is highly disruptive (hits, pulls out chairs from under, pulls hair etc) Another is that in his inclusion class of 2 teachers the sped one is a yeller. The reg teacher seems really on top of things and is much more kind. (She even knew what phonographix was, a first from one of my son’s teachers)
The other reason is that I just am worried that he will not be challenged enough. I seem to have to push for challenges with the sped teacher; happened last year as well. I am beginning to think that it is just not the place for him.

I am scared of taking him out of sped but I know in my heart he needs this. Can he still keep his IEP, for now, and be taken out of sped? Others have said that he could but I couldn’t find that written anywhere.

Socks or anyone else any help would be great. This is a tough decision but I have to know that what my rights are as I may have to push the school a little on this. They seem to be into mantaining the status quo.

Socks, I know you are the expert on this so would really like your honest opinion. I value you input. You have it going on girl!

My son received no direct services in 7th and part of 8th and he remained on an IEP. This might be unusual. The advantage was that when there was problems with accommodations I had a Special Ed teacher as a Case Manager that I could go to sort problems. My older child was on a 504 for a year and since there is no funds behind 504 it was expected that I do the enforcement. Schools are suppose to have a 504 Co-ordinator but usually that person has little understanding of 504. If it works better in other states I would love to hear it. I know the Reed Martin claims you have a lot of power behind a 504 and that the whole school board can be sued for non-implementation of a 504 plan.

Helen

nt

You can still have an IEP without any pullout or inclusion services. You can request for consultation services in which the sped teacher monitors the progress of your child only, mentors when needed, and is responsible for implementing the accommodations. This will provide the student with a “safety net” should problems arise and more services are needed.

Laurie

nt

Your child is either in sped with an IEP or is out. The level of restrictiveness is the issue. Where is the least restrictive setting for him/her. I serve many students on a consultative basis but they are still in SPED and on an IEP. I hate to bring this up but the only way we receive the funding is by the IEP.

I think what you want to say is that his current placement is not the least restrictive environment for him. You basically want him in a regular classroom with special education services on a consultive basis. As I understand what your saying, you don’t want him declassified, but rather just change his placement.

I argued for this when the Ot wanted to dismiss my son from OT. I wanted him to at least remain on an IEP with only consultative services.

Beth

nt

Yes, I see it as a matter of placement. I want him with the regular teacher. I don’t mind if he stays in the inclusive classroom.
The way the two teachers seem to have worked out this situation is to have the sped teacher do all the sped kids and the reg teacher do the other kids. I don’t believe this is what inclusion is supposed to be about. I know other classes where the two teachers work together to serve all the children. I remember reading that with inclusion all the children are supposed to be assigned to the regular ed teacher.

I think the school will give me a hard time with this because for whatever reason (even before they assessed him to make the determination) they have indicated they would just like to keep things as they are.
I will be sending in letter this week to request an IEP meeting. I really wanted to know for sure what my rights are. I won’t make threats but if I can just say thanks but no thanks to the placement with the sped teacher and still keep the IEP that is what I would like.
I have read the N.J. Chapter 14 administrative code and the parent’s rights handbook but I don’t see this addressed.

In hindsight, I sometimes think I made a mistake ever putting him in sped. The teachers we have gotten have been in my opinion not as kind, creative and motivated as the the teachers he had before sped. (This has just been my experience, I do realize there are wonderful sped teachers out there, many here on this board.)They classified my son with visual motor deficits and did little to actually address these deficits or to even accomodate for them. Some things his teacher did last year, I later found out was exactly the opposite of what these kids actually need.
The help he has received has been with me and other out of school therapy. He made is greatest gains this past summer and the previous summer.
The initial testing was helpful in letting me know what he needed but the sped program itself did not provide what he needed with the exception of very limited OT services that I had to fight for.
I am left with the feeling, “What is so special about special ed.” I really can’t see what it has done for him and am confused by what they think they are providing.
He was a boy who loved school. He is now a boy that despite success in reading and all around improvements in other areas now fears his teacher and dreads school. So I guess that is all I see.

Yes, the others are correct. You want his placement changed to consultation…absolutely do not exit him from special ed. altogether.

Janis

Ok, Thanks everyone, I will set up the meeting and ask that he be placed on consultation.

I appreciate all the advice.

OKay Linda my friend you are thinking real hard here,I totally understand what you are saying,the special education is NOT what it is cracked up to be. My kids made not one month progress while in resource room. I won’t tell you what to do but I will tell you what the laws say,and then maybe you can make an easier decision based on that. I think you will be surprised to find out what both laws actually say:

1. This is IDEA definition of “special education”

§300.26 Special education.

(a) General.

(1) As used in this part, the term special education means specially designed instruction, at no cost to the parents, to meet the unique needs of a child with a disability, including—

(i) Instruction conducted in the classroom, in the home, in hospitals and institutions, and in other settings; and

(ii) Instruction in physical education.

(2) The term includes each of the following, if it meets the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section:

(i) Speech-language pathology services, or any other related service, if the service is considered special education rather than a related service under State standards;

(ii) Travel training; and

(iii) Vocational education.

(b) Individual terms defined. The terms in this definition are defined as follows:

(1) At no cost means that all specially-designed instruction is provided without charge, but does not preclude incidental fees that are normally charged to nondisabled students or their parents as a part of the regular education program.

(2) Physical education—

(i) Means the development of—

(A) Physical and motor fitness;

(B) Fundamental motor skills and patterns; and

(C) Skills in aquatics, dance, and individual and group games and sports (including intramural and lifetime sports); and

(ii) Includes special physical education, adapted physical education, movement education, and motor development.

* notice the delivery of instruction* it says nothing about being solely in a resource room away from reg education curriculum.

(3) Specially-designed instruction means adapting, as appropriate to the needs of an eligible child under this part, the content, methodology, or delivery of instruction—

(i) To address the unique needs of the child that result from the child’s disability; and

(ii) To ensure access of the child to the general curriculum, so that he or she can meet the educational standards within the jurisdiction of the public agency that apply to all children.

So if interpreted I would have to say this means at what ever time span that the IEP team determines appropriate.

But it also means to me that special education can mean simply being given accomodations within the regular ed classroom.

Now 504 says,
Specifically, a free appropriate public education under Section 504 is defined as “the provision of regular or special education and related aids and services that … are designed to meet individual educational needs of persons with disabilities as adequately as the needs of persons without disabilities are met and … are based upon adherence to specified procedures.” 34 C.F.R. Reg. 104.33(b)(1)

so basicly 504 says the same things. They must provide special educational services in the least restrictive enviroment and be designed to meet the individual needs of the student.

The ONE thing that would differ is related services,such as OT,etc.

You may have an IEP with no time in resource room,but has all the accomodation he might need to be successful in the general ed curriculum which is the SPIRIT of both laws.

In regards to your rights Linda,always remember the school can not make a decision without your input,without providing to you a written explanation of decisions,and can NOT change placement without your signature.

Whether you have an IEP or a 504,it is suppose to help provide the most appropriate education,in the least restrictive enviroment,and meet the indivual needs of the student. Personally having both laws is not a bad thing. It can’t hurt. The focus is not whether to not have rights,but to exercise the rights your already have,correct?

Some good articles to read,and where to find the specific regulations:
www.edlaw.net/service/504idea.html
www.ideapractices.org/law/IDEAMAIN.HTM
www.ed.gov/offices/OCR/index.html
www.edlaw.net/service/guidcont.html

Thanks socks. I somehow thought the words “least restrictive environment” might come slipping out of my mouth at the next IEP meeting.

I think that even though the class is inclusion, the placement with the sped teacher is restrictive. I won’t make it a personal discussion about the specific teacher. I will just say that if he does not need to be with the sped group he shouldn’t be. I will ask for consultation and I will try to keep OT but I could see that slipping away and that is a concession I will make.

His motor skills have improved dramatically since IM so they might be able to argue that OT should be discontinued. I feel confident, thanks to this board and the success he has had, that any remaining issues can be dealt with by me or should I say US since all of you are a part of this.

I will ask to keep the IEP stating that he might need accomodations as the work gets harder.

Socks you are the best. Thanks to you all!

I will ask to keep the IEP stating that he might need accomodations as the work gets harder.

Karen,

That is exactly why you want to keep him in; the work may become harder and the classroom situation might change.

Helen

Ask to have your son on “15 min consult only”. My daughter has been on that since day 1. She remains under the “umbrella” of the IEP, but receives no direct services. The ESE teacher/case worker meets with her gen ed teacher 1x/wkly for 15 min. to check on how she’s doing. (Still in elementary). I have always provided her reading therapy privately.

I plan to keep her on the consult through high school.

Linda,

you can also ask to keep OT on consultative basis also,if you keep the IEP.

In my state, Massachusetts, to be eligible for an IEP the student must fit the federal definition of a disability, NOT be making effective progress in school BECAUSE of the disability, and need SPECIFICALLY designed instruction. Monitoring or altering HOW things are done in regular ed. (not what is done but how) would be a 504.

Then I think your state is in error. Consultation service is the least restrictive service level on the IEP continuum. I surely would not like it if they were removing my LR option!

Janis

I’m also in MA, and from what I’ve seen, SAR is right as far as initially qualifying for an IEP. I don’t think you’d ever get an IEP without a need for specially designed instruction. It can even be hard to get a 504, since many school systems will tell you that all of these “accomodations” are available to any child who needs them for any reason. (the problem is enforcing them without a plan, and continuity from year to year and class to class… but they don’t want to hear that ;-)

Whether MA is in compliance with this policy or not is up for discussion. The theory is good… these accomodations SHOULD be available to any child who needs them, therefore they wouldn’t NEED to be “special” ed. The practice, however falls far short of the ideal. With my younger son, the school got right on top of his reading problems in first grade, and with intensive remediation offered by the school as a regular ed service, they really did a good job teaching him to decode. As a result, they dodged an early IEP bullet to the benefit of everyone involved. With my older NLD son, things are too complicated, and his needs increase as the demands of school increase. He doesn’t need a lot of services, but what he needs, he REALLY needs, and that includes education of staff and consistency of the program. I don’t think you can provide that kind of consistency without an IEP as the guiding document.

If a child has been on an IEP for a while, and services have been reduced because they are not (currently) needed, my understanding is that most school systems in MA won’t fight a parent about leaving an IEP in place if it’s not costing them much to implement. It’s cheaper to keep an IEP without services than it is to take a family to court to have it removed.

And having allowed my child to be removed from his IEP once (I didn’t know any better) and seeing him flounder miserably for the year it took to get it reinstated, the only way they would get him off an IEP again would be by taking us to court. As it turns out, now that we know it is NLD we’re dealing with, he will probably need MORE help as the years go on, not less. But I’d still be gunshy about losing the legal protection of the IEP even with a kid who SEEMED to be totally remediated.

Karen

It agree that it would be rare for a child to be initially placed on consultation. A child has to have pretty significant deficits to qualify to being with, so they obviously need pull-out to some extent at the beginning. Consultation usually occurs after a child has received some remediation and can then return to the regular class full time with accommodations.

Janis

Just as a side note, our school system doesn’t require a pull-out model for a child to be on an IEP. They do pull-outs when needed, and also self contained classrooms if needed. But my son has always been serviced by a SPED teacher in an integrated classroom. I know that model isn’t appropriate for many LD kids, particularly those with reading problems. But it is the best model for most NLD kids. He needs someone to realize that he’s floundering and help out WHEN the lapse occurs, and helps him move onward.

With the subtle but global problems an NLD kid has, they need a little help all through the day. A lot of help for a small part of the day doesn’t really help much.

I have to give our town credit that they seem to understand that an “Individualized” ed plan means that you do have to look at the specific needs of the individual child before deciding on an appropriate placement.

Karen

“an “Individualized” ed plan means that you do have to look at the specific needs of the individual child before deciding on an appropriate placement.”

Really!!!

Janis

http://www.doe.mass.edu/sped/links/sec504.html

ironicly some of the best 504 information that I have read has come from the Mass Department of Education website. SAR please read 504 vs IDEA similarities by EDLAW. there is a link on your state DOE website. It is the best explanation that I have ever read.
Also interesting is a memo from the commisioner of Education in Mass. It discusses the federal law and how Mass. needs to comply based on your state law,504,and IDEA. The common denominator,specialized instruction. When a child can not progress through the general ed curriculum,without “specialized instruction” then an IEP is needed. If a child can progress with reasonable accomodations and SERVICES then they can progress with a 504. The disparity exists by what definition is used.