Help!

What math curriculum do they use at school? What facts is she struggling with, times tables or operations? For my ld son(now in 6th) who understood the concepts but had trouble learning his math facts, we used Quarter Mile Math with great success. He is now in regular 6th grade math, and I have no idea if he sees numbers in his mind…what he really needed was LOTS of drill, just like in reading. But even now when under stress, I don’t think he is completely automatic on his math facts; at least now he can use a calculator. I also used the Landmark Arithmetic book to teach both of my kids long division, and recommend it highly. My 4th grade son who loves math enjoys the math games at funbrain.com .

Thanks for the information, I haven’t heard of Quarter Mile Math, but will look into it. She is in 4th grade, and it may be as you say, that she just needs much more drill. They use Saxon at school. The school is quite small, only 19 kids, and all at different levels. The majority of the kids are older, and are working at higher levels of math. My feelings are that the teacher does not stay on one type of math (addition/subtraction, multiplication/division) long enough for the kids to truly master the problems. She seems to have to double back fairly often, and I think Nicole gets lost in it all. I am hoping that I can work with her enough at home to get it into her long term memory, thus reducing some of her frustration and intimidation!

nt

SAR,
can you give some description about how does the software really work- there is not much on their WebPage except for a list of products.

What exactly did you use?

I have the whole package k-12. It basically is set up as races—either horses or cars. You are racing against yourself for speed. It keeps track of your speed. You select what you are going to be racing on and it can be quite specific. For example, you could do multiplication facts 0-3’s. The math facts then appear on the screen and you have to type in the right answer.

The only problem is the studentneeds to sorta know their facts or else they will get very frustrated. It is very good for building automaticity. It is also good for a child who likes to use their fingers. It took awhile but my son eventually learned that 3+4=7 without his fingers!!!

Beth

My daughter is still using her fingers for everything! Did you find a different way to help your son with his facts? I’m looking for any suggestions I can get!

It’s(we bought gr.4-6) drills on a huge variety of math facts, whole number, fractions, decimals, etc. It does not teach concepts; it works toward automatic recall of math facts. Both of my kids love it, but they are avid video game players. I think you can’t progress in math until you have your math facts in your head and can recall them rapidly. The alternative is flash cards which I used all one summer with my ld son, but they are very boring. My nonld son in 4th grade is expected to know his times tables up to the 12x cold by now, then they go to division. This program(quarter mile) helped him become the fastest in his class. There are lots of other drill programs on the internet, funbrain and AAAmath are some they use in 4th grade at my son’s school. I would think an LD School would be able to teach the concepts and you could use this for the drill.

Thank you- that gives me some idea.

How long did your children “play” this game? Did they play daily? For how long for one session?

My son does a lot of math drills in his new school- he does (as they call it) “fluencies” and some of them are math facts (four fluencies- one for addition, one for division et.c.). He runs them in one minute blocks on the computer (once in the morning and once in the eve. at home) and gets a score how many did he do, how many self-corrected, how many errors et.c. the program advances him once he “masters” a given level. It is not “fun way” in any way- pure numbers on screen and beeper to start and finish
http://www.cyberslate.com/Product/subjects/popup/math/arithmet.html

They also do one round of paper and pencil of 4 fluencies at the beginning of math class every day.

I can see him making progress, but he will still count (6+2 “counting: six, seven, eight) when adding 46+12 but he is definitively gaining speed.

It might be fun way to keep him doing math facts over the summer.

We tried to do it for 10 minutes by a timer but that really was too long for my son. He has integration problems so he tends to get worse at tasks over time. I tended to stay there with him and when his performance really started to degrade we’d stop. But for most kids, 10 minutes would probably work. I know parents who have done the typing for their kids into the keyboard so they could do as many as possible in ten minutes. His therapist told me that the typing the numbers was a vital part of it for him.

This is really only a game format of what you are already doing. It has lots of sound effects and my son likes that. My daughter liked the horses (clopping) but my son goes for the race car noises.

Beth

You can try involve the motor system. Have the child bounce on oversize ball or a trampoline while reciting math facts…..1 + 1=2, 2 + 1=3, 3+1=4 ect.

We also discovered that our son could not recognize automatically quanitities over about 3. So if you, for example, held up 7 fingers, my son did not know it was 7 without counting. Very strange. So, with a therapist, we worked on that. He had a sheet with dice like squares on it and dots in rows of threes on it. At first he bounced on a ball and had to call out the number of dots. Then we did it to a metronome type CD that his therapist made.

We also have counted by 2’s, 3’s, and now fours while doing a motor task. I started with a sheet of paper with 25 squares on it and 3, 6, 9, 12 ect in boxes. I had him read it at first as did motor task and then do on own with my occasional assistance. He stepped off and on a stool but could use ball as well.

My son’s problems are intimately tied to his motor system.

Beth

THank you

Beth,
is the therapist you are mentioning your Neuronet person, an OT therapist- or….?

Our Neuronet therapist.

Beth

Hi Rowena,

I have tied my son’s math problems to a sequential processing problem. He is much better at sequencing after interactive metronome but he still lags his peers. I believe that in order to sequence well, one needs to be able to visualize.

I was drilling him on math facts for a long time and he does seem to get them but he will often need reminders that he knows something. He is much better than he was, but not automatic.
I have decided to work directly on his sequential processing. I give him a series of numbers and ask him to visualize them and repeat them back to me. It’s tricky because he can do this with a few numbers using his very fine auditory memory skills. As the numbers increase and things get more complex he falls apart.
I will ask him to repeat this sequence 45793 but leave out the 7. You can’t do this with auditory memory, you have to visualize. Try it yourself.
I also do a series of circles in different colors on a white board and ask him to look at them for a few seconds and repeat the sequence of colors that he saw.
He has alot of trouble with visualizing symbols. I believe this is going to take awhile.

Depending on your child’s grade and level in math, a “fun” visual drill like Quarter Mile math or any of the internet based math drill sites(funbrain, AAAmath) are ways to learn the math facts to the point where they’re automatic, and don’t need to rely on visualization or auditory recall; when kids’ facts aren’t yet automatic they subvocalize, or count on their fingers for a visual reminder. These drills take the kids to the next level. My 4th grade son is very good in math and has shown us what it’s like to be very very fast in math facts…he just spews them out, almost without thinking, the way we can’t remember tying our shoes in the morning because its automatic.

I think that works for kids who do not have a severe problem with sequencing. My son’s problems in this area are pretty long standing. It has never been easy for him to develop anything to automaticity where visualization of symbols was required.

This affects more than just math facts. His inability to visualize symbols affects his writing and spelling. It took forever (well into first grade) for him to learn to write his letters and numbers.

Going after the underlying seguential processing problem gives us the biggest bang for the buck.

He is a very busy boy. I have learned that the most efficient way to get him where he needs to be is to go after the underlying deficits.

I intend to knock down the door then help him to walk through it. Before, it felt as though we were just chipping away at that door and it was pretty exhausting.

PS, I think most people do this without even thinking about it. I never knew I did this until I ran into this problem with my son. I do it, but it is a split second event that I don’t even realize is happening.

Thanks much for the advice. My daughter also has sequencing weaknesses, and maybe I should also consider more work in this area.

If you are talking about memorizing math facts, my daughter’s LMB tutor suggested:

writing all fact families and saying them outloud at the same time:

2 x 4 = 8
4 x 2 = 8
2 x 5 = 10
5 x 2 = 10
etc.

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN

Not fun, but helpful.

Also Mel Levine swears to do things like this LAST THING b4 going to bed. Insists that the last thing worked on stays in the memory better.

It’s worth a try!

.

where you get Landmark Arithmetic Book? My son struggles with math.

The Landmark School is in Mass. and it’s on the Yellow Pages on this site, under Mass. They have a great web site of resources and sell many of their books and guides.

We did — this program was totally uneffective for us. I have found that when you don’t really hone in on the concepts to be taught, at least for my daughter, the concepts get lost. When it comes time to apply the concept, she would remember the story, but not necessarily be able to link it correctly with the concept. Victoria, on the teaching math board, has really stressed the teaching of the concepts in a straight forward manner so that the kids can rely on their understanding of what is going on, versus memorizing a story, to help them understand and apply math concepts. My experince leads me to have faith in her judgement!

My son understood the concepts but had trouble with memorization so it seemed like Math Facts the Fun Way was made for him. And it seemed to take him through third grade with A’s on multiplication quizzes. Then we hit division and he was totally lost. He just didn’t internalize it enough.

So we’ve gone back to square one…..

Latest tactic—he is bouncing on a ball while reciting his multiplication tables.
0 X 2=0
1 x 2 =2
2 X 2=4

We tried this last year and he couldn’t do it. Just couldn’t recall facts at all at any speed. So before doing this, he counted by 2s and then 3s and 4s while stepping on to stool. Now have got hm to the point that he always guesses a multiple of 3–(when asked 7X3, for example)just maybe the wrong one.

I think he’ll get it this time. And we’ll follow up with Quarter Math.

Sigh. And to think I just used a few flashcards with my daughter.

Beth

Beth