Adequate yearly gains??

I have had this “debate” with the school year after year. I can pretty much guess the responses you are going to get on this one as well.

What you will hear is that basically there is no formula or magic numbers (test score/results) that will tell you what progress has been made. You will be told that every child is different therefore how quickly and steadily he progresses is based on the individual.

All of this hooey basically says that the school (the IEP) is not responsible for “lack” of progress because it is all subjective.

You will go round and round because what you consider adequate progress for your boys is never close to what the school will agree is adequate. Their blanket statement will be “ANY progress is GOOD progress.” So, you must determine where you want them to be by their annual reviews and make sure the IEP’s goals and objectives are precisely written (to the best of YOUR knowledge). Now, getting them to follow what is written is another story, but YOU must take charge if YOU are concerned that they are not making adequate progress.

Its all about what you think is right for them; but prepare for ultimate disagreements on what “progress” means.

Hi Jane,

I am a teacher and parent of an adult child w/pretty severe LD. I became a teacher when my child was in his teens.

Here is some straight talk:

First, where are your boys in the process? Are they in 5th grade working at 1st grade level? What subjects are we dealing with? (Reading, writing, and math or just one/two of them?)

Math seems to be easier to achieve an even upward slope. Reading seems to plateau and jump at some levels. Writing can look more like a heart monitor’s report.

For some kids, I shoot for 2 years growth in a certain year. For other kids, may be 1 years growth one year and 1.5 the next. I wouldn’t always expect 2 years growth. Depends on the child’s learning needs and where they are in the sequence.

Another factor to consider in each child are their emotions and resiliency. Some kids are unaffected by their own errors—it doesn’t bother them to be wrong and they don’t see a need to improve. Others desperately want to do it to the point that they are nervous and anxious thinking there is something wrong with them. There are a host of emotions and children between and outside of these two examples.

Child #1 (doesn’t see a need) may eventually make huge leaps when they see the need because they believe in their own ability and are not hampered by negative feelings. Child #2 may never get over the need to be right all the time and develop a mask through which it is difficult to teach.

Also, remember that most IEP goals are written with a percentage of mastery as measured by something (whether it is teacher observation or a standardized test). We all can achieve way higher levels if the percentage of mastery is lower. Example: Earning two grade levels with 90% mastery is tougher than two grade levels with 75% mastery. (In my book, 75% isn’t mastery. But that’s me.)

If you want to post more information, I’d be happy to look at concrete goals with you and Present Level of Educational Performance statements that correspond.

Thanks for your info. My boys are 10yr (7-14-92) and in the 4th grade. We didn’t start them till 6yr old because the schools here work fast and our first child we sent at 5 and wished we hadn’t. Looking back now this was a blessing!! Concern by our part from 1st grade on, school tested in fall of 2nd grade. Placed with LD services in Dec. of 2nd grade (levels at that time twin A reading 1.3 writting 1.4 math 3.8 twin B reading level 1.7 writting level 1.2 math 3.5) Present level of knowledge twin A reading level 2.0 writting level 2.4 math 5.7. twin B reading level 2.5 writting level 2.1 math 5.6. We have no other issues except for reading/writting , just gave you math info to show potential . No ADD or behavior issues and the teacher tells us that they are hard workers who want to do well. My concern and question for school is if gains are enough and if the gap is really getting smaller with peers or if it is going up??? thanks Jane

Without knowing your boys “live & in person”, I cannot say for sure what represent good gains for them; however, these scores do not present a very sparkly image. In fact, they not not really gains at all. They show me two boys who are treading academic water. Yes, the gap is widening.

If you wish, you may post WISC scores and other achievement scores from then & now. If you would rather not post on-line, I will look at them on my email if you prefer. I like doing it on line because others can see, too. There is wisdom in numbers, I feel.

Susan Long

Hello Again,
Here goes with all of the scores I have. I will do each boy on own to help keep things apart. Don’t know if I said earlier that they are Identical Twins. 36wk gest. No problems at birth or O/2 needs.
Twin A WISC VIQ: 98 PIQ:111 FSIQ:104 verbal comp index 96
perceptual org 111 freedom from distractibility 96 processing speed 109
Devel Test of Visual-Motor Integ C.A. 8-4 Age Equiv 7-6 Standard Score 96
Test of Visual-Perceptual Skills Visual Discrim S.S 104 Vis Memory S.S. 84 Vis Sequential Memory S.S. 55 Vis Closure S.S. 61
WIAT Reading Composite S.S. 77 Gr E 1:5 Basic Reading S.S. 83 Gr E 1:1 Spelling S.S. 78 Gr E 1:4 Reading Compre S.s. 78 Gr E 1:5
All present levels are based on placement from Jerry Johns Eval. and nothing else. The first scores are from original testing for placement in LD and Illinois doesn’t require that they do more for 3 years. The school uses Jerry Johns eval 2 times yearly.
Twin B Note different school psychologist so some different tests.
Stanford Binet Test Composite 94
Devel Test of Visual-Motor Integration C.A. 3-8 Age Eq 3-2
WISC VIQ: 94 PIQ: 98 FSIQ: 95 verbal comp index 95 perceptual org 97 freedom from Distracti 90 processing speed 104
Develp Test of Visual-Mortor Integ C.A. 8-3 Age E 10-3 S.S. 113
Test of Visual-Perceptual Skills Visual Disc % Rank 87 Visual Memory % 47 Visual Form Constancy % 79 Visual Sequential Memory % 68 Visual Closure % 7
Test of Auditory-Perceptual Skills % Rank 9 Aud Quotient 80
We have talked, disagreed, questiioned the school at every turn. This year I have just plan been pushing and the school doesn’t like this. Since we are saying that they are not making gains and this is the goal of the IEP, how far do I go ?? I’m not dumb, just don’t want to close to many doors if my way of looking at it is not right!!! Some of the schools goals focus of reading at 4th grade rates, comp 4th grade material, and writting at 4th grade levels. We stated at last years planning IEP that we thought these goals were to far ahead. Therefore not really giving the boys goals to work towards or that address their large holes or gaps.Thanks for all your info and help. Sorry so long

Jane

Didn’t Ttwin B have any kind of standardized achievement test in reading—like the WIAT? If so, post scores. If not, how did they qualify for LD services in reading? (Surely not from the Johns. It is a good instrument—I use it, too—but is not standardized.)

Did Twin A have any kind of auditory assessment?

I need to look up something on visual closure. They both have troubles there.

I can already tell you that I am 95% confident that boys are functioning in the average range of intelligence. If the reading test is equally reliable and valid, their reading score should not vary more than 10 points (SS score points.) If so, one must figure out why and correct the problem.

Be careful using grade equivilant scores. They are the most unreliable. Use percentiles or standard scores for accuracy. A 100 IQ is exactly at the 50%th percentile.

I found this site on visual closure. Thought you might like to see it, too.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcoao0el/de361/de361s101_folder/CLosure.html#next4

Hello Again Susan

Sorry I must of left some things out, so I’ll put what I have. I have to read through large written letters to find the info so as I go back and forth with the two, I didn’t to well.
Twin B the only test I can find is WJ-R results Broad Reading S.S. 91 Broad Writting S.S. 84 Passage Comp S.S. 97 Dictation S.S. 80 I can find no other reading test.

Twin A TAP-S Auditory Quotient 75 Auditory Number Memory forward ss 82 reverse ss 82 Aud Sentence Memory ss 93 Aud Word Mem ss73 Aud Word Discrimination ss 96 Aud Processing ss 83 Aud Interpreation of Directions ss 85

Does this help?? Jane

Hi Friends,

I have a daughter who is 6 years old. She started speaking at the age of 4, before that she wasn’t even telling her name or calling me mama. After her 4th birthday she showed great development and in the matter of 2 years she has come along way. She can converse very well except when the question is too complicated and it requires multiple and little complicated thinking.
The greatest mistake from my side was, I never visited any specilist for counselling. I believed in god and was not aware of LD and such other terms.
Now she is in grade2, she can read level 3 books but in maths she is struggling with basic concepts like, how much is 2 + 2 or 5 + 2. her teacher says she is way behind other kids in her class.
I am located in Qatar where there are very few facilties for diagnosis and help.
I am moving to canada- Edmonton in Dec, I am a canadian landed immigrant.
Can anybody guide me as to how I should go about getting various tests done for my child and which school should I put her in, as I am not aware of facilities available in this country.
Thanks a lot to all of you.
Shefali

Dear Jane,

Well, the weak auditory processing for both twins could be the hang-up; however, may not be used as a school excuse for no gains. We (teachers) use that information to know that it’s going to take more work auditorally to get the association going between written symbol and oral language. That is reading.

I see some possibilities of visual confusion on symbols (letters) and I see some auditory processing problems that could cause confusion for them. But we can be 95% confident that both twins function at about the 44th to 49th percentile—in the average range. That’s a big help, too. It means, generally, that memory is good and that they can reason fairly well.

Assuming that emotional disability nor severe speech issues are present, I see no reason why either of these two fellows could not be taught to read with a little lag behind their peers. (It’s awfully tough to catch up completely on that late start. Kids with auditory processing problems are usually going to get a late reading start.) Now, bear in mind that I haven’t met them or worked with them or even heard them read.

This is all speculation. However, were they my kids, I’d be asking some difficult questions as to specifics. What is being done? What methods are used? (Lots of people don’t like it when I say that teachers who cannot speak about the methods that underlie their materials and instructional delivery do not know what they know or do not know. They are simply following someone else’s script or else skipping along blythely in the meadow with no methodology at all. Teachers who say, “oh, an eclectic approach: a little of this & that” don’t know what they are doing or certainly have poor verbal skills.