Second Opinion?

My opinion - give the Adderal a chance. Document changes you notice. keep work samples. Look at everything in 30 days to see if you see progress, regression or no change.

Hi Anne Marie,

My son does extremely well when taking his meds, and did instantly (he started taking them at the beginning of third grade). However medication will not teach him the things he missed in grades K-2 prior to the meds. Your soon-to-be step daughter probably needs active remediation to catch up the things she did miss because of her inattentiveness in earlier grades.

Also, research indicates that children with ADHD (inattentive or not) perform much better, with much less anxiety, when they take meds and are on some type of positive behavior plan. Last year, my son’s classroom teacher did this naturally, with all her students. This year’s teacher (who has two young adult sons with ADHD) just doesn’t get it.

With the discrepancies your stb step-daughter is exhibiting, she qualifies for an IEP. This is good, because it protects the child legally, and outlines what the school must do for her. Do some research on IEPs (www.wrightslaw.com is a good site), and make your own decisions. But don’t let the school system talk you out of an IEP with platitudes. Be informed and vigilant.

In closing, I think it’s great that you are already out here asking questions for your “soon to be” step-daughter. She’s very lucky to have a new “mom” like you! :-)

Lil

Yes, I agree with Lil. If she is scoring at the K-1 level, then she needs remediation. Medicine will not make the skills she is lacking appear. It may be fine to start the tutoring after the Adderal takes effect, but she either needs to be labelled LD or you need to be hiring a tutor right away. I can’t really see what a second opinion would provide. It sounds like your observations of her skills confirm that her achievement levels are correct. It is fairly critical to get her remediated ASAP, as fourth grade usually becomes much more challenging. She probably can’t do much in that third grade class as it is. Personally, I am wondering why it took until third grade for her to be tested.

Find out what the LD resource program does for remediation. You possibly may want to hire a private tutor just to get better results more quickly anyway. Be sure to get one who is an LD tutor experienced in methods like Orton Gillingham, Lindamood Bell, Phono-Graphix, etc. Oh, and you could get some free second opinions about her scores (post standard scores from the subtests) if you post them here!

Janis

Was your child considered LD by the team? You need to “remind” :-) them that meds don’t make LDs go away and WON’T catch her up (as Lil said). I would try the meds and GIVE THEM NO LONGER THAN 30 DAYS. I would request (demand - that’s more like my personality) that she be re-tested in 30 days to see what, if any, improvement the meds made. Be careful, they will drag their feet and your daughter (oops stepdaughter) will lose VERY valuable time that is often tremendously hard to make up. Before you blink the school year is 1/2 over and etc, etc.

Good news is my daughter started remediation at 7 yo. AFTER 1 year of remediation she improved tremendously. Shebegan meds after the improvement and the improvement w/meds was as marked as the improvement with just the remediation. You could have a dual deficit going on, which is NOT the end of the world.

Sounds like your step daughter is in a win-win situation with you as her new mom!

I learned more about my child on this board from the “experts” than I did my own evaluator.

I posted “privately” awhile back and this person knew my daughter to a “T” w/out having met her. I was very impressed.

I am the mother of two boys. Both are ADHD/Gifted/LD. There are some general things that one could say, from personal experiences, about evals.

1. It absolutely amazed me the difference in IQ scores AFTER they started medication. My youngest’s IQ score jumped 10 points( swear to you).

2. I have NEVER,don’t believe EVER,recieved an adequate evaluation from the public school system. ( mine anyway,but I have spoken with lot’s of parents from all over the country,sure seems to be a reoccuring theme.)

3. The school district wanted nothing to do with having to provide special education to my boys. ( mom had to fight for it) They wanted everything to do with medicating my kid. ( don’t get me wrong, meds were the best thing that ever happened to my kids, I am pro-meds, if they are needed)

4. The one thing I will always regret doing,is not insisting on the evals for anything and everything else, before trying meds. Here is my reason, my kids are truely adders,but they are also truely ld. Got ld from Mom,ADHD from Dad.Once on meds,they did much better academicly,to a point of masking other problems,UNTIL things became much harder and the pace became more demanding,in which case it was like pulling eye teeth to convince the school that there was a problem other then lack of motivation,or the need to increase the dosage. It is such a double edge sword. Yes they start attending and can follow along better,therefore making academics improve. BUT,if there are other problems,they are harder to see. For example,my youngest has CAPD,as part of his LD profile,he has trouble processing auditory information especially when there is heavy background noise around. A kid with CAPD will finally give up trying to follow along,and look like they are day dreaming.( sound familiar?) Well,so will an adder,but for a different reason. Amazingly enough when thei crazy parent finally convince the school that testing for CAPD was needed,the results came back with not only a diagnosis of CAPD,but a low frequency hearing loss in his right ear. At 500 MZH he did not hear most vowels,only consenants. Well gosh guess where he sat in the room? The far left. Right up in the front seat,because he is one of the adders,needs to be up front. Everything the teacher said,was directed into his right ear. His dosage was helping him be less impulsive,aggressive,and helped him focus in. But he was part of the wallpaper,didn’t give the teacher any problems,but didn’t get a damn thing going on in the class.So what was this Mom’s problem? Of course ANY decision made on behalf of your child educational needs is a good one, meaning,you can’t go wrong doing something. Doing something is altogether better then doing nothing. For example,if my boys were not on meds the second time they were evaled the school would not have found out that they were also in the gifted range.Sad to say,I knew,my husband knew,most people who talked with them knew,even a lot of their teacher’s,but the school system must have a number to know. ( they can’t figure it out,unless they have a number) In my case,it didn’t matter whether the school knew. If they were LD,they couldn’t be in gifted classes? Gee,how would we do this?( that is a whole other story)

5. Last,but not least, I knew. I knew in my heart of hearts,I saw them do homework,I saw other things outside of school that indicated something was not altogether right, I knew there was more there then ADHD. Always,Always listen to that still small voice. It hasn’t failed me yet:-)

Hope all this rhetoric helps. In short,bottom line is,if you feel deep down that this child has more going on,if you can afford it,by ALL means have another eval done. Make SURE you go outside of the school to do it,make sure the evaluator is well experienced in what the school system requires for the eval.( states have specific tests that have to be in the eval) Some of the tests can not be done too close in timeframe,but generally the evaluator will know what they are and will do other ones,but make sure you ask.

Now,being into the laws that protect your daughter,I have got to say a few things( sorry, it is in my blood)

1. If the school did an educational eval,and you do not agree with their findings,it IS your right,( actually it is your husbands right,as the parent) to request an independent eval,at their expense. This means,you can take her to any evaluator of your choice( they must have at least the same qualifications as the school evaluator) and the school must pay for it. They can not deny your request. The only way they can say No to you is,to prove to a judge that their evals were adequate. This is MUCH more expensive to do ,so mostly they go ahead and allow you the independent. So DO NOT take we won’t do it,as an answer. If they can lie to you and get away with it,then why not,right?

2. The diagnosis of ADHD is a medical diagnosis. No one in the school is qualified to make this diagnosis. If they did an eval. and refered you to a doctor,then the eval might have results in it that shows either yes,indications of LD,or NO indications of LD. Might be wise to look closer at results you already have.

THIS IS a VERY GOOD point! Truely it would seem that this child would and should qualify for an IEP. IEP stands for a Individual educational program. I just got sent a site that looks pretty good in terms of reading about what an IEP is and the laws surrounding it. Might check this out:
http://www.cesa7.k12wi.us/sped/parents/plainlanguageindex.htm

Okay,gone are the days when you could post an address and it would make a link. Sorry this is the corrected address:-(
http://www.cesa7.k12.wi.us/sped/Parents/plainlanguageindex.htm

hopefully I wrote it correctly this time

Well put socks. As there is no need for a third opinion, just wanted to post and concur.

Andy

I have most certainly taught several students whose ADHD was the only reason they did not learn to read or to compute. Once the child’s attention was somehow achieved, the child did learn and ultimately catch up in most areas to grade level. The area that has most commonly lagged has been writing. That is a profile I do find and that MAY be the situation with this young lady.

However, if this child DOES QUALIFY for an IEP as LD due to a discrepancy, then my “vote” would be to place her. It would be lovely if the adderall does yield the result that she can learn and does make progress. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to spend a year or two and help her catch up, she is far below grade level.

Finally, there is always there is always the possibility that the young lady has a real LD that is not merely attention-based. Placing her on an IEP and giving her help, along with her adderall, will certainly be absolutely necessary. You will know within a few months on adderall and extra help just what the case is.

Lastly, I cannot help but wonder what the psychoeducational assessment did find, besides low academics and an I.Q. of 96. Is there much scatter in the subtests? Was phonological processing assessed? Was rapid-automatic naming assessed? Was this child on adderall at the time of the assessment?

I think the school should pay for a new outside eval for my son. I have considered pushing this issue. Do you think I have a case with the eval having been done over 1 year ago?

Get this, the evaluator called my son by another boy’s name in one part of the eval. She was doing tons of evals at the time and expressed to me her stress. Do you think I could use this to make my case?

I am saving for PACE or neurofeedback and don’t want to spend the money on an eval. Can I choose the evaluator? Can I choose different tests to be done or can I only get the same test done.

Thanks in advance.

Procedural safeguard section of IDEA states:

§300.502 Independent educational evaluation.

(a) General.

(1) The parents of a child with a disability have the right under this part to obtain an independent educational evaluation of the child, subject to paragraphs (b) through (e) of this section.

(2) Each public agency shall provide to parents, upon request for an independent educational evaluation, information about where an independent educational evaluation may be obtained, and the agency criteria applicable for independent educational evaluations as set forth in paragraph (e) of this section.

(3) For the purposes of this part—

(i) Independent educational evaluation means an evaluation conducted by a qualified examiner who is not employed by the public agency responsible for the education of the child in question; and

note* the independent evaluator is NOT am employee,and the parent is solely responsible for which evaluator they pick.The school district must provide you with a list of people,they must provide you with info such as which tests must be on the evals,the qualifications and the customary costs( this has been a big issue in the past years,make sure you get IN WRITING costs. Now once I got the independent list,I made damn sure nobody on the list was my kids independent evaluator!

(ii) Public expense means that the public agency either pays for the full cost of the evaluation or ensures that the evaluation is otherwise provided at no cost to the parent, consistent with §300.301.

(b) Parent right to evaluation at public expense.

(1) A parent has the right to an independent educational evaluation at public expense if the parent disagrees with an evaluation obtained by the public agency.

(2) If a parent requests an independent educational evaluation at public expense, the public agency must, without unnecessary delay, either—

(i) Initiate a hearing under §300.507 to show that its evaluation is appropriate; or

(ii) Ensure that an independent educational evaluation is provided at public expense, unless the agency demonstrates in a hearing under §300.507 that the evaluation obtained by the parent did not meet agency criteria.

Note* they can ask you why you are requesting one,but they can NOT delay your eval over it. Basicly they have two choices,1. pay for IEE,2. Take you to a due process court hearing,and try to defend their eval. Frankly Linda,If you have typos in your eval,there is no way in hell they would want to show this to a judge. Besides the fact that it is way more expensive to go to court then it is to pay for the eval.AND they would have to file on you. Not only would they be paying for a private eval,but your atty fees if they lost. Betcha they would lose,or at least be way more afraid to try and fight it.ESPECIALLY if you brought this little error to their attention. With that being said,I can almost garuantee that they would request that you allow them a shot at re-evaluating your son. If you refused to allow them,THEN there could be a gleem of hope in their favor. It is all about how would you look in court,in front of that judge,who knows nadda about educational laws. In my personal case,I said,go ahead do the reeval,( it STILL had typos,not to mention my oldest’s IQ was in my youngest’s eval! The general point is,giving them enough rope,well you know the rest. )I had my letter already written,the school psych gave me the results,I turned around and handed the principal my letter requesting the independent eval.It is all a game,and if your kid has a little time to wait,this is what I would suggest you do.*

(3) If the public agency initiates a hearing and the final decision is that the agency’s evaluation is appropriate, the parent still has the right to an independent educational evaluation, but not at public expense.

(4) If a parent requests an independent educational evaluation, the public agency may ask for the parent’s reason why he or she objects to the public evaluation. However, the explanation by the parent may not be required and the public agency may not unreasonably delay either providing the independent educational evaluation at public expense or initiating a due process hearing to defend the public evaluation.

hope this info helps:-)

(e) Agency criteria.

(1) If an independent educational evaluation is at public expense, the criteria under which the evaluation is obtained, including the location of the evaluation and the qualifications of the examiner, must be the same as the criteria that the public agency uses when it initiates an evaluation, to the extent those criteria are consistent with the parentís right to an independent educational evaluation.

(2) Except for the criteria described in paragraph (e)(1) of this section, a public agency may not impose conditions or timelines related to obtaining an independent educational evaluation at public expense.

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1415(b)(1))

* NOTE* in the begining of the section above it refers to (e) as what the agency must follow,thought you would want to know just what is the agencies criteria. they can not impose conditions that wouldprevent your right to an IEE.

I think since things are presently going well I will wait. I want to go through vision testing and maybe some therapy anyway before he is retested. When he is ready to be retested I will do as you described. Thanks so much as always.