need clear picture of test results

It is easy to mis-copy these. I think you left out the Picture Completion subtest. The scores you posted next to Performance Subtests may, indeed, be those scores. I don’t want to just assume that, though.

One thing in your post also caught my attention: the quickness at which the public school discounted his eligibility for and need of services. What are the eligibility requirements in KY? Did school do any of their own testing? What is the Language Assessment?

I suppose APD is a possibility; however, his auditory subtests on the WISC are all average—and in some cases the question can only be stated once. In fact, auditory working memory is a relative strength (Freedom from Distractibility=101). I don’t know the TARPS; not sure what it tests and of its reliability/validity.

Processing speed looks fine. Perceptual organization is a relative weakness for him, though. Visual Spatial (Block Design) is very difficult, possibly related to the eye surgery, but not necessarily so.

I don’t know about realistic goals: you’ll have to monitor those based on the private school, its progress with him, and the climate in the public school.

Just looking at his testing (which is only one piece of good assessment practices), I’m concerned about both word recognition/word attack and reading comprehension skills. I also wonder how he does socially with non-disabled peers. Math may get difficult, too. Where is he in the math learning sequence of instruction? How is handwriting and written expression generally?

Six or seven years old is too young to get good long-term conclusions from the WISC. I’ve seen too many scores change over the age-span from 7-11 years. That’s when we really see the discrepancy climb for kids without good preventive intervention (such as he may be getting in his current school placement). Unfortunately, he may never qualify in public schools because you have not allowed him to “wait & fail.” (See Little Lulu threads on this bulletin board). I’m certainly not advocating that you *do* allow him to “wait & fail.” Just saying that this is typically how many kids qualify for services.

Let me know if you have other questions.

Thank you for looking this over for me. Everything seems like one big puzzle. His picture completion was raw score 11, scaled score 8 and 25th percentile. The public school looked at the testing I had done and said he wouldn’t qualify for services because there wasn’t enough difference between his VIQ and PIQ. Basically they also want a two year lag in performance before he would qualify for any services except speech. The public school did the language assessment. The x’s mean average and the negative numbers mean the standard deviations below the mean. I’ve noticed that he sometimes has a lot of trouble with word retrieval. He also forgets what he was going to say a lot. He says this drives him crazy. Socially he’s great!!! He has a lot of friends and is very physically. He is an active rollerblader, even on half pipes. His handwriting is excellent. His teachers have noted written expression as a weakness. He has a lot of problems with spelling and spelling tests caused him to cry a lot when he was in the public school. He would study hard and continue to fail. The reading comprehension packets that he had to do every day were extremely hard for him. He couldn’t read half the words well enough to even understand the stories. His teacher would put big U’s on them everyday. I asked all the people involved if they could change this but they said they couldn’t make an exception. He did have an IEP drawen up but this really was of no help. It just allowed him to qualify for the 20 minutes of speech a week. His teacher was suposed to repeat instructions to him which she said she did, but could’t do too much with 26 kids in the class. The comprehension, spelling and reading just seemed so hard for him I felt he needed lots more help with phonics and a small class size for awhile to help him catch up. I didn’t want to see him struggle for two more years and fall further behind. I sware, the child has more common sense and logic than my other children who are non LD. Thats why the WISC stunned me. He loves math and is very proud of his achievement in this area. This has always been his best subject by far.
Are his scores that I have posted simular to any other LD childeren? He seemed to struggle so much in the public school it just tore me up. In the LD school though sometimes I’m afraid that they might go too slow sometimes. Then I wonder if maybe his problems are more severe than I see and thats why he struggled so much in the public school. They seem to do a whole lot of handwriting exercises in his new LD school and he doesn’t have trouble in this area. They work a lot on comprehension which he deinitely needs. They also seem to concentrate on processing speed in math which he excels in. He says he’s done way before anyone. They have moved him up in both areas. I guess everything can’t be perfect. He’s getting the phonics help he desperately needs. I was hoping that he could get this help at this new school for another year and a half and then move back into the public school. I just wasn’t sure if there was something more to his LD that the testing showed that was causing his continuing struggle with reading and comprehension. Thanks for any input.

There are basically seven different types of LD and they can be present in mild to severe ranges. A person could have one, two, or more.

The seven types: Basic Reading Skills (Word recognition/word attack), Reading Comprehension, Math Calculation, Math Word Problems, Written Expression, Listening Comprehension, Oral Expression.

So, just using the 7 variables = 7x6x5x4x3x2x1 or 7! (Permuted) = 5,040 different possibilities…and we haven’t even begun to factor in the mild to severe ranges or other possible factors. This thing called Learning Disabiilties might easily be a really old “buzz word” for over 40,000 different conditions. Is it any wonder that you’re having trouble understanding it?

Really, you just have to concentrate on how he takes in, processes, stores, and outputs information. Don’t try to look for matches with other children…just too many variables. Then, you try to get him help to learn core skills (reading and math and written language) while still acquiring information in content subjects (social studies and science).

He sounds like a delightful child and I know that you will make good decisions. Not perfect ones because none of us does.

I don’t think you’ve had a complete language evaluation. You might check into that. Who did this one?

Is isn’t the difference between VIQ and PIQ. It is likely the difference between one of the IQ scores and his KTEA scores.

*You* need to know how Kentucky says schools must deem students eligible for and in need of services. Don’t just trust the school to ‘tell you when you win.’ Call your state department of education and get the number for your parent advocacy group. Most states have one. There’s probabably a website that “Socks” or someone on this BB will know.

I can see why a school system would file him under “Low average” and shrug their shoulders; there aren’t screaming peaks and valleys that say “LD!” On the other hand, this sure looks like a kiddo who could use some help. And that “auditory reasoing and processing” score is very low — yet things like “similarities” which tests understanding of relationships between words/ideas is a strength. But then on “the listening test” he floundered again.
It looks like he’s one of these kids who does fine if he feels like he knows the rules, but when he’s got to figure them out as he goes, or there are too many curves along hte way, he can’t work around and put things together. Interesting that the ‘comprehension’ score is on the low end — that tests his social sense, knowing what to do in differnet social situations. (And I wonder if the same person did all the tests, or was he tired by the time that “listening test” came around on the guitar…)
One thing to think about — even if the LD school goes slower, a year of being the smart one in the group could do wonders (though there are *lots* of other things to look at!)

Thank you for all the ideas and help!!! Yes, everything does seem very subtle with him, however it has caused him great trouble. Work attack, reading comprehension, written expression, listening comprehension and sometimes oral expression(word retrieval). I thought for over a year that he was dyslexic and that was the answer. Since then I have learned that basically thats just a word for a reading disorder. I had never even thought about the auditory part until I had him tested. It is interesting that Susan said about taking in information, processing, storing and outputing. You can actually see his brain working when he’s concentrating on something. It’s like you can see him rewiring it himself. It’s a very slow, deliberate process in which he rules out all possible factors before coming to a conclusion. He’ll tell you “I don’t get it” and wants you to explain everything to him until he fully understands it. They had a math sheet at the public school that his teacher said they went over in class for a week and the kids who didn’t get it went to another teacher for more help. She sent the sheet home with him for me to help him with after both teachers had explained it to him. He said he didn’t understand it. One-on-one I was able to point out how it was done and within literally 5 minutes he fully understood it and will never forget. He said “Oh, I get it. That’s simple.” One-on-one he does great. I don’t think he did get a full language evaluation. My nephew had one done through the same county system and his had more subtests than the one my son received. When giving him this test she said she could see how tired he was getting and took numerous breaks. When I had him tutored with LMB you could see how tired he looked after working for 45 minutes to an hour. He did have two different people testing him. One for the WISC and one for the KTEA. They were done on two different days. Testing lasted several hours and he seemed exhausted afterwards. You can actually see it heavily in his eyes. He probally was very tired by the time the listening test came along. It’s like he concentrates 100% more than most people. I will check to see what KY’s guidelines are to get extra help. The only thing the public school did was the language evaluation and now the APD test, maybe I will have them doo the full assessment before going back into the system. Maybe being at the top of his class has helped. I don’t see the frustration levels for reading I once saw. He was always at the top in math. He still is, but he always wanted to be at the top in all areas. At least now he doesn’t have to look at the “smart girl’s paper” who sat next to him to get the answers. He used to tell me this privately and I could tell it embarrassed him but he “just didn’t get it” and didn’t want to get another U. He tries so hard and thinks so deep I just want to help him succeed because I know he’ll grow up to be a great adult and be successful in whatever he chooses to do.

just one more note the Terri Bellis the author of the auditory processing books feels thatat testing for auditory processing should not be done or at least considered definative till after 9 yrs old . mylenization of cns and corpus collosum aren’t finished till then and you may not get the true results till then.