what is spelling dyspraxia?

Sounds to me like someone trying to invent a new term, as if we don’t have enough already.
Dyspraxia is a coordination problem, not being able to plan motions and guide muscles correctly. Connect that with spelling and you get a kid who either can’t figure out what letter to write, or can’t figure out how to form the letters needed.
Not being able to figure out what letter to write is mostly a phonic/phonemic awareness problem at first, often mixed with a memory problem if spelling has been taught as disconnected memorization.
Not being able to form the letters would be dyspraxia/dysgraphia, and would require teaching how to write.

Thank you, that makes much more sense to me and you hit the nail on the head with what he is struggling with.

How would we address that effectively, OT or is there a more specific program we could use to address these issues as a whole?

OK, for teaching how to write, get a good model alphabet showing proper directionality: left to right, initial circles always counterclockwise, and top to bottom. Get markers and either a lot of plain white paper or a large whiteboard, so he isn’t trying to use pressure at the same time as forming finely coordinated motions, a self-defeating mixture. Make primary lines (two solid lines and a dotted middle line) with a marker that won’t wipe off. Encourage large letters, at first a couple of inches high, and free, open, swooping motions. For a beginner this is fairly easy. Unteaching a kid with years of bad habits can be difficult but is worth it to develop a writing rhythm. Be extremely strict about those directionalities — every letter is made exactly the same way every single time, period.The idea is for writing to gradually become totally automatized and not need any conscious thought — this bypasses the praxcis problem as well as saving room for thinking about *what* you are writing. If the child still can’t get it, make textured letters with sand or flock (the stuff they use on sweatshirts) stuck to letters written in glue, add the direction arrows, and have him trace them. You can cut out letters in textured cloth — I once did the alphabet in corduroy — but it’s tedious and the glue texture allows you to make whole words. Teach the LOWER-CASE alphabet only at first — lower case is 95% or more of everything you read or write, so this is the obvious priority.

I used exactly these techniques with my own daughter, who is quick verbally but very very slow developing her hands (At age fifteen buying shoes in men’s department, clothes in women’s, and gloves in children’s) By Grade 2 she could already read anything in two languages, but could barely print a readable sentence running all up and down the page with no spaces. By Grade 4 her writing was quite readable although still large and she made several “capitals” by enlarging the lower case (a good standby for the kid with problems — she knew where a capital was needed and built one for herself if she hadn’t internalized the standard form). BUT here’s the payoff — she’s now in university and gets compliments on her nice handwriting, and she can also do calligraphy. Her writing, although large and loose and uneven, was enough for her to get by when she needed it, and the main thing was that she could write fast enough and had good enough content to get the marks she deserved. And having the basic motions internalized, she was able to form neater handwriting when her hands finally caught up. It is really important to make the writing automatic enough and fast enough that attention can be paid to content; “pretty” neat handwriting that doesn’t say anything or only covers 10% of the work will not get you through high school, and a neatness that is forced will not last.

Spelling: first, teach phonics and more phonics, what PG calls the “advanced code — the digraphs like sh ch th ng and the vowel rules like ai ay a_e, etc, oo ow ou au ar or er ur ir, etc. and the ough (sounds ow, oo, off, or uff). AT THE BEGINNING accept phonetic spellings. There is a huge debate about “invented spelling” and this should be a non-question. When a kid is first learning to talk of course you accept ba-ba for bottle and pay for play. When the child passes four or five years of age you expect fairly correct pronunciation and you help him say things properly. Same with spelling; when he is *first* learning the code, accept his best effort. I remember my daughter wrote “shrt” and “tedy beres” (and you can read those, can’t you? The phonics knowledge is there, even if it hasn’t yet standardized!) I praised her highly for these efforts, inch-high letters and all — she was four years old and this was wonderful! And if your child through no fault of his own has not had effective reading instruction until he is ten, well, he’s a first-year student and would still deserve to be greatly praised for such efforts. When he has passed his first year of effective teaching and is reading Grade 2.0 or above books with acceptable fluency (ie at talking speed with few hesitations), then you can push more for standardization.
Actually, if you are teaching effectively, standardization often starts to come of itself.(There are exceptions with certain kinds of LD’s, who need a little more guidance, but *most* of the time this works.). As you teach a new word you look at each of its letters and sound it out; by the time you pass the basic levels you also spell it with letter names. At the beginning the student should be tracing the letter shapes as part of learning the word, and later writing it. (This is why automatizing and standardizing the writing as above is even more important). You should be noting digraphs, vowel combinations, silent letters, and irregular vowel patterns as you go learning each word in reading. Most students will learn the spelling at least close to accurate as they learn to read. You can start more formal spelling instruction to clear up the tricky parts after reading is well on its way.
I have heard good things about AVKO sequential spelling, which apparently teaches spelling in a logical pattern, but haven’t used it myself; ask other people about it.

So, Victoria, do you think that any child regardless of their LD should be able to spell pretty well w/the right instruction? Just curious.

It depends when you start working and how much time you can put into it. The NIH/NICHD report on Teaching Children to Read (highly recommended — see LD In Depth board) says formally what I have seen in day to day work: if you learn with an effective approach right from the beginning, spelling can be learned; but if you wait several years and remediate after years of bad habits have built up, it is far more difficult and levels of success are likely to be lower. None of the kids that I taught to read from the start had any trouble spelling well for their grade level, but those I remediated at later grades took so much time and work on unlearning bad habits in reading that in general we hardly got to spelling.

Also there is the big issue of what is and isn’t LD; if you restrict LD to the formal definition of average to above average intelligence with a specific weakness in some academic area, these kids definitely have the ability to learn spelling especially if started before they learn bad habits, but if you include slow learners then they may have more limited memory capacity and vocabulary.

My daughter has 15 - 36 pts between IQ and performance in all areas that were evaluated. She has been in LMB since beginning of 2nd grade (only 2x/wkly) and is doing well in school. She is a terrible speller. Of course, she can spell close enough phonetically for a teacher (not me) to figure it out. And, it has improved - it could be that I don’t know HOW bad it could be.

I know she can study and make an A on the spelling test on Friday, (she wants the $2.00 for the 100% - something I started when I didn’t think she was capable) but can’t use it later in a story, etc.

She uses computer software, i.e., draft builder because it has the auditory spellcheck for writing reports, etc. She can come up with a great story verbally, with advanced vocabulary, etc., but hand her a pencil and you might get it about 3 hrs. later. (if at all)

Although her evaluator doesn’t use the words, she (in some circles) would be considered dyslexic, dysgraphic and dyspraxic. She gets SI OT and it has made a big difference with letter spacing, formation, and legibility; however, she’s still a very slow writer. They explain it by saying that its the amount of effort it takes for her to write, i.e., get it on the line, get the “b” going in the right direction, figure out what she wants to say, keep it in memory long enough, figure out how to spell it and how hard to press on the paper…. and she’s exhausted before she starts good. She did get writing tutoring this Summer to get her ahead of the game starting 4th grade.

I tend to say “she’ll never be a great speller and we have technology today”. Maybe that’s wrong thinking? Feel free to tell me the truth. I have alot of respect for your pt. of view as I’ve been following you for awhile.

Currently she loves school and does well. I don’t want to frustrate her by trying to hammer home something that she can’t do.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Leah,
I hope you don’t mind my jumping in here. My son has the same problem and also improved with SI OT. At least now he will start writing at the top of the page rather than the lower right corner or the middle.
Yet, despite the fact that he has improved and does write legibly now I noticed that he still has trouble with other visual spacial things like reading the clock, and remembering a series of tasks which Shay pointed out is really a function of visual perception.
He tested low on the TVAS which is a test for visual perception I found in a book. We have been doing the exercises and he is improving although I won’t yet make any claims of a cure here because it is too early.

Spelling is mostly related to phonemic awareness sounding out words but you still have to be able to see that the word looks correct and that you used the correct phonomes based on your knowledge of what the word is supposed to look like.

One idea for practicing this skill is to do scratch sheet spelling which just means have her write out the word with a few phonemicly correct spellings and choose which one looks right. This is still hard to do with a child who has visual spatial deficits, which is why I am going after the specific deficit.

Visual judgement on spelling is notoriously a bad guide.

The best methods I know are to first use phonetic spelling, then learn word roots and prefixes and suffixes, and then use kinesthetic practice (writing over, being very sure to use consistent and rhythmic letter formation.)

Also, spelling is learned as a part of writing and reading; the weekly spelling lists are also notoriously never retained.
As you learn a new word in reading, sound it out, spell it, note any silent letters, note any irregular vowels, copy it, and say it again. Learn the meaning at the same time, if possible from the context (dictionary definitions are notoriously worse than the question.) Do this regularly as a habit. At first it may seem to slow the reading down, but what matters is not rushing through to the end, but learning something as you go.
As you are writing or type, say the letters to yourself in an undertone or later mentally until the pattern is automatic.

You can get a good spelling program that is based on phonetic patterns and work with it from the beginning.
Besides that, you can make up personal lists of common words to work on, only a few words, perhaps five, at a time, and review reading - sounding - spelling - writing - using in sentences every day. Start with common words like “does” (Use for example the Gates list or the Key Words from Ladybird and pick out the first five that are missed). Work up slowly from most common to less common words, because this will get the most errors out of your written work. When one group of five is mastered to the level of being 90% correct in daily writing, then make up a new one.

There is an excellent article on spelling in last year’s IDA annual publication; I strongly recommend you to look it up if you want to see what helps and what is a total waste of time (the usual stare at a weekly irrelevant spelling list.)

I agree that it is absolutely related to sounding out. But what of the child that sounds out and writes grate for great. It is absolutely correct from a phonics stand point only our visual sense tells us that grate is not what we are looking for here.

Leah said that her daughter is very good at sounding out. I actually got the scratch sheet spelling thing from a newsletter from read America. It has helped my son.

Well, writing grate for great is a start. Then you work *from* that *into* standardized spelling. I’ve heard of the scratch sheet spelling. For someone who is close to spelling well already, it can be a help. Other posters — I think maybe Shay or Anitya - have mentioned that for many kids the scratch sheet makes things even worse; he sees all the wrong ways as often as the right way, and worse yet practices writing the wrong ways, so he reinforces the confusion.
I would accept the phonetic spelling at first, while he is still working on reading, and then when he is reading fairly fluently I would start to correct the spelling; first writing in the correct spelling myself, then later underlining the missed words and asking him to correct them, and very much later asking him to do his own editing. I would also start by expecting the most common words to be known and then work up to rarer words. Great is a fairly common word, so that could be one to work on early.

I think for my son it was just a very specific problem where he just didn’t know that he had to look at the word as well as sound it out. He has all the phonics down. He can sound out pretty much any word. He also reads enough that the common words are in his memory bank, somewhere. His biggest problem is in the realm of visual perception so I often have to teach him to look at pretty much everything.

Scratch sheet spelling just taught him that spelling was more than just sounding out. It requires some visual analysis.
He still has a problem with this but I believe that remediating the visual processing deficit will make alot of things easier.