Mad in Florida

First off,ESE student scores DO NOT get counted in the school’s over all scores. Can anyone say,no motivation to worry about ESE students??

I think not only is it an absolutley concious attempt at excluding him,but even they know how incredibly ineffective the camp would be.

I ran into the opposite when my oldest was in public school. Knowing I was pushing for them to provide remediation and tutoring they wanted to insist my son participate in an after school FCAT tutoring session. But instead of providing IEP accomodations they wanted to place him with 2nd graders,because he was on a 2nd grade math level,but happened to be a 5th grade. Hmm,the hell with his self esteem and emotional stability. Rocket science..That’s what they call it.

Victoria,

I am so sorry your parents treated that way by you’re parents. I would not be surprised if you and your brother do not get along, My mom grew up in Ireland and her father would tease her and her siblings. Each child had a role. One was the teacher (a high status job) while another sister was her maid. I think the teasing has effected greatly their relationships with each other; they are now in their 70’s .

Helen

My relationship with my brother is generally OK. He has never been mean, in fact often very nice to me, just accepted his favoured position as natural, as who wouldn’t?
I have to keep a distance from my mother who just can’t stop being negative. I know she means the criticism to be constructive but it isn’t, so I decided a long time ago to keep out of the line of fire. All mothers out there can take this as a bad example to avoid.

teaching school is a little world unto itself, holding only tenuous connections to the world of business that most people live in.

In school teaching, you get “qualified” by taking a certain number of courses with the correct names. The content of these courses is very loosely defined and there is little or no supervision of the colleges of education, and no verification at all of actual knowledge.
A true example: a person with a PhD in math and twenty years teaching at junior college is NOT “qualified” to teach math in the high school because he has not taken “Foundations of Education” and various other such courses. BUT a person who has never himself even taken (much less passed or learned) Grade 12 math IS “qualified” to teach high school math because he took 30 credit units of the easiest possible “math education” where he built models out of soda straws and learned how to get answers to algebra without actually doing any algebra by using a fancy computer program.

In school teaching, in most places, success is measured in how much people like you, not whether your students learn. Teachers are evaluated on their performance by their own bosses, the principal in most cases. The principal has to answer to parents who come to his office, so he upgrades teachers who have lots of smiling happy parents and downgrades those who do anything new and different and rock the boat, which always gives rise to complaints. He upgrades those who are his friends and downgrades any who are not chummy. Yes, this happens in business, but there at least there is some reality check about profits. In most cases student performance is deliberately left out of teacher evaluation. People are justly afraid, justly because of the other rampant unfairnesses in the system, that young teachers and those out of favour would be given the most difficult kids and so would have terrible student performance scores. But this also means that totally inept teachers whose students actually lose ground during the year can get glowing evaluations.

And then, most of my truly excellent teachers in my youth (and possibly many of yours, and even my daughter’s Kindergarten teacher) would never be “qualified” under today’s rules. Formerly people who wanted to go into elementary school teaching as a career took a two-year degree. In the last push for so-called “higher standards” through the sixties and seventies, the minimum was upped to a four-year degree. Many of the two-year schools just extended the same material twice as long, a real waste of time and money. But all those good dedicated highly experienced teachers were left with the choice of leaving the profession or taking night school for ten or fifteen years. My daughter’s wonderful Kindergarten teacher finally got her BA while Grace was in her class, five years before she was going to retire. How many good people just quit rather than go through that nonsense? And really, how much difference did that diploma make in her teaching ability? And yes, she was a real teacher, she taught all the kids to speak French fluently (immersion class) as well as all the other K stuff.

Our middle school was a pit and many parents complained that their kids left it knowing less than when they entered. I pressured the school board and got my daughter skipped out of Grade 8 — not my first choice but another year on that place would have taught her to be a juvenile delinquent like the rest.

On the other hand, it was her deliberate choice and desire to go to the largest high school in the state with over 3000 students. We got her into the math and science program and the Latin class, and she later got herself into the music program, where she met hundreds and hundreds of like-minded souls and really blossomed. There were a few pretty bad blips that first semester but after that it was the best thing for her. She *prefers* to be an anonymous face in the crowd until she wants to stand out. She learned to navigate quite well and keep up with at least enough work, Lord knows how, because she doesn’t want to tell me about her work either (an intensely private person). She made a number of good friends who are still together as a group.

Fail because of a dsorganized notebook? Lord, we would both still be back in Grade 1 for life. Find ways to fight this one, if necessary organizing the notebook yourself before grading sessions.

Oh, I’m VERY proud of my high achiever too! I have the letters telling me she’s in the “honors” program attached to my fridge so everyone can see them. I brag to family and everyone what an incredible kid she is. Not only is she a high achiever, popular and incredibly mentally-balanced, she was diagnosed with a chronic illness when she was 3 and has dealt extrodinarily well with long stretches of illness, horrible meds like prednisone, trips to the hospital etc…

I’m extremely proud of both my children.

We even have one 3rd grade teacher who does her weekly spelling words as a multiple choise test with the idea that the kids will be better prepared for SAT-9 testing!!!!

I’m glad to hear things worked out! Your activism on this is inspirational to me.

Beth,
I think the parochial school sounds like a good choise. Also, you’re already familar with it, and have other children there. That should help.

Unfortunately, in my area there are no decent private schools. We do have one parochial school, but it’s quite overcrowded. I can fully relate to your concerns about Jr. High. It’s good you’re thinking about it and trying to prepare now.

DEA,
She’s clever! ;-)

I agree it was conscious—especially after I talked to the resource teacher today!!! I ran into her as I brought my son in early and she said to stop by and talk to her. She thanked me for calling the principal—she said that she had been trying to “her” kids included in extra help sessions without success. After my phone calls, not only was Nathan included but many of her other ESE kids as well.

As far as effectiveness, well, I can’t be sure of that. My son is not that far off the curve to not benefit from regular instruction as well, though. He reads at an early fourth grade level and is in fourth grade. His ability to make inference and the like is more delayed at this point than his decoding. He is able to read and do the regular FCAT preparation stuff—not as correctly as the average kid but not so far off that he wouldn’t benefit. I am just hoping that some repetition along with the one on one work we are providing privately will help. To me the bigger issue is gaining skills related to reading comprehension rather than passing the test. I am hoping that some extra help at school will push him in the right direction.

And frankly, it just made me mad that the ESE kids were being held accountable while the school was doing nothing. I know it was sensible on their part—just unfair.

Beth

I have read your posts about what you think they say about you. I think they think more kindly of me which makes me wonder if I have done enough for my son!!!

Beth

nt

Socks,

That is horrible. They really don’t see the forest through the trees when it comes to these kids.

My biggest fights with the school have involved their not destroying his self esteem. The Hxxx with their services.

I have often said they need to take a pledge like physicians, “First do no harm.”

Laura! Oh my gosh! A multiple choice spelling test? Gee, I guess those kids are REALLY learning how to spell, huh?

Janis

My friend often laughs and says they say, Oh, another TY letter from Mrs. ________”. B/c I first of all thank them for their time, then I cut them up in pieces, then I thank them for their “anticipated cooperation”. So, she calls it my “thank you letters to the school”.

Gosh, Beth,

I’m just now finishing reading these millions of posts! I am glad you got some good results!

I guess all I want to say is that my fight will not be to have special ed. kids included in the scores because I think in NC they already are. (I’ll check on that to be sure. I know that at the end of last year only 20% of the 3rd and 5th grade special ed. kids at my school passed the reading and math tests. Caseloads are low, but no effective methods being used.) I want LD kids exempt from the tests altogether. I think the IEP should take precedence. Like you, I hope that the testing laws are challenged by the time my child gets to graduation age and I won’t have to worry about this. But I’ll also try private or homeschool before I let my child fail. I purposely had her repeat first grade to strengthen reading skills. That’s the one and only time she’ll be retained.

Someone said they didn’t care if their child never passed the tests before 10th grade. Well, all I can say is, if the child can’t pass the earlier ones they sure as heck probably aren’t going to pass the exit exam!

Janis

I disagree; I think that as graduation requirement these tests are dead; too many kids will not graduate with a hs diploma and states will be forced to reconsider. I personally don’t care if my son passes before 10th grade…although he did in 3rd and 4th, because these are measures of what the teachers are doing, or not doing in teaching the curriculum, and not norm-referenced tests of the kids’ abilities. These are here now because Bush strongly supports them and I suspect that over the years politics will sway their use.

Okay, I see, SAR. You disagree because you are assuming the tests will be dead before our kids get there. That’s fine. I said I hoped that would be the case, too! But if it’s not, kids who never pass a lower level test will never make it on the final one. But I won’t be there to see it, because if my child fails the first one or two, she’s outta there!!! No way will I kill my child’s self-esteem by having her forever in the low achiever group. And I assure everyone here, kids WILL know who didn’t pass the test even if you hide the scores, because they will be the ones in test-camp-hell (thanks, Ken!).

Janis

I would rather them be in test camp hell than my experience in sped hell. My son had his chair pulled out from under him from the completely out of control kid, he had the obessessive talker following him around all day getting him in trouble, he had the teacher assume things about his abilities that were just not true and then dumb down the curriculum for him. I can’t imagine anything worse for his self esteem than that environment.

I think for kids who are on the border sped can be extremely damaging to their self esteem.
I kept being reminded of that well known study done in the 60’s. The blue kids were put in the back of the room and given easier work etc etc. The red kids were challenged and had high expectations placed on them. The blue kids did poorly because it was assumed they would do poorly.

I rather he get specific help for specific areas of need. He won’t get that unless the schools have some accountablility for him. They would rather place him than help him.

Tests or no tests he knows he has areas of weakness, but it is just areas of weakness. He knows he has areas of incredible strength.

Oh, I agree, Linda. I have seen first hand that almost no LD teachers in my district have proper training, and therefore, time with them is basically a waste of time. The parent I mentioned on another post checked last week before her IEP meeting and found that not one special ed. teacher in our district is trained in Orton-Gillingham. No one is trained in Lindamood-Bell or any other MSSL program. So that left me…and PG. And that was just lucky that I happen to go to that school for part of the day.

I’m sure I will take advantage of after school tutoring when the time comes. If we make it that long, that is.

Janis

Janis,

The regular ed teachers in my district are awesome. I mean it. The greatest people I have ever met. No teaching to the test. Just really fine teachers who love their kids. I don’t understand why I have had such an extremely different experience with sped.
The last teacher at the IEP meeting thought he would benefit from resource room for his writing issues. My husband asked, “If he doesn’t like it can we get him out.” She said, “Letting the child make a decision like that would be a bad idea.”

I have taught him to be self reliant and responsible. He is extremely self aware and anything he has said in the past about teachers or his abilities etc have been right on target. To say that this type of child should not make decisions about what is or is not helping him just steals so much from him.

I honestly don’t understand the whole mindset of sped. I fear for my friends’ kids who are in sped. There is one little boy who I just adore. He is the greatest kid. I wonder what they will do to him. I worry about what they will steal from him. He has so much that could be stolen.

Linda,

I know. It kills me as I would like to rescue them all. There are so many people who could not afford private therapy even if it was available, and it is simply NOT in our county. There is a LB clinic about an hour away, but let’s face it, only upper income people can swing that. So, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That does not seem to ever change, does it?

Janis

I agree with you. My dd gets pulled out once per week for some worthless spelling group (I couldn’t even tell you what they do). She hates it, it’s with kids much lower than her ability, they mis-behave and it has not helped her spelling at all. From what dd tells me, I have to agree with her about the class. I really think we need to LISTEN to what our kids are telling us. Next year I think I am going to just have her with accomodations. I think the pull-out is hurting her not helping her.

It just makes me so angry that they can’t/don’t do anything to help her? That I have to do it all on my own.

I just wrote my annual ‘I’m not noticing any improvements, here are the observations I see at home, why are you not addressing’ letter earlier last week. I’m requesting speech help vs. the other pull-out. But the speech pull-out will probably be worthless too and probably should have just done it on my own.

DEA,
Actually, the only thing I have found helpful was the OT pullout.
At the last IEP meeting they asked why I keep him in OT but refuse resource. I told them because OT does address core deficits and resource does not. They were highly insulted. I am so far beyond caring whether or not they like me. They need to hear the truth.

Janis,

My friend actually has a high powered job and plenty of money. She really doesn’t have the time to deal with all the school and outside remediation issues. She will be doing interactive metronome this summer but she has to take time off of work to do it.

I have offered to get her son set up with a college student to do audiblox. I may do this as well this summer. I feel so overloaded doing it all myself sometimes.

We are educated people who are solidly middle class and look at all we have had to do to get things on the right track. I can’t even imagine what it is like for those who do not have the financial or personal resources to get the job done.

That is one reason I was posting my son’s exercises for VT. I really hoped it could help someone who had the will but not the way to help their child.

I like to think this board can even the score, at least a little.

Linda,

This board has transformed me as a teacher. It has freed me from the bondage of working in a place that was not bringing “best practice” methods to it’s teachers. I owe almost everything I have learned over the last couple of years to the people on this board and to the articles on this site. How sad it would have been to have discovered all this too late. At least I can finish out my last few years as a more effective teacher.

I will tell you honestly that I have been so absorbed (or obsessed) with learning myself, that I have not spent enough time remediating my own child. I think one of my dream jobs would be a special ed. curriculum specialist. They’d never hire me as I would cost them too much in training and materials. But it’s what I’d really like to do in order to have an impact on many kids rather than just a few. I am trying to help my child’s school be her remediator so that other children will benefit. But it is yet to be seen if that will work. I need to get an expert reading eval outside the school to see where she is at the end of the year.

Janis

Oh no,you totally misunderstood. I ,in no way,meant it was sensible to exclude.
What I meant is,even if they include,they still screw it up,and they apparently do not have to comply with the IEP goals,UNLESS you include and with after school tutoring into the IEP document. But do not fear,there is a civil rights complaint filed regarding exclduing ESE kids in regards to using the funds. And we all know how when you start talking about money,well,gee,it makes the world go around.

and by god they will one day Leah:-)

Beth,
if you ever want to file a civil rights complaint for ALL the ESE kids in your school district.let me know:-) it would be incredibly timely,on the heels of another.

About the lack of accountability on the schools part for ESE students?? What does a complaint mean? Does it matter if there is already one filed?

Beth

On boards like this the cream rises to the top. There are no politics involved. People are free to talk about what works.

You are the cream! Thanks!

DEA,
Have you talked with your school’s SLP about expressive language problems? I have a feeling that the SLP at my son’s school may not be qualified (or experienced enough) to adequately deal with this.

I just sent the forms for language testing and therapy (if needed) through a local university. I learned they have a good program, and I believe we’ll get more accurate test results.