Spelling in school!!!

Your son has the same problem as my son. My son flips letters like that too, especially the er, re sounds. I know he knows the sounds. He does well on his spelling tests too.

I will tell you what works for us.

1. Always do work the same time, same place every day. So instead of springing it on him he knows that when the clock hits 4:00 it is time to work. Especially in the beginning stick to this schedule and don’t waver.

2. I always make it clear that this is for him not for me. He is not doing anything for me. He has to understand what we are doing, why we are doing it and the results we hope to achieve. He has to buy in. I have gotten pretty good at knowing when to back off and when to push. I try to make him learn to push himself. I say, “When you do these exercises the biggest gain is when you are really pushing yourself, so when you feel like you can’t do it anymore try to push for just 30 more seconds.” We do alot with measurable results. This works because he can see progress. For instance, he could only do the exercises for 30 seconds then could do them for a minute, etc I try to have him set the goals for himself. He also gets control whenever possible too. He sets the stopwatch and times himself for the balancing exercise.

3. I have learned to stick to one program at a time. We were all over the place there for awhile and it was hard to see results because he was stretched to thin.

4. I am his biggest fan. I make it very clear that I am on his side. I let him own the work and own the results. Words like, “You must be proud of yourself , I know how hard you have been working, rather than I am proud of you thanks for doing this.” I am his coach rather than his task master, there is a fine line you know.

Thanks, Linda - all good advice, again!

I should also add that he writes “grem” for germ - backwards from his usual mistakes with r-controlled vowels. His auditory discrimination is very poor - I wonder sometimes if that second sound in the word is masked while his brain processes the first sound. Then his brain jumps to the third sound, and he can hear the final sound, because nothing comes after it. But he always knows there is one more letter in there somewhere. His writing OFTEN has one letter (generally the second one) crammed in where he missed it initially and adds it after the fact - or it is in the incorrect order (as in the examples above). This could be a good clue as to why multi-syllable words are so hard for him, too.

Lil:

I have an 8yr old daughter who is also a real bad speller. She does ok reading but I notice she looses her place and misses words and or letters. She always did pretty good in school but I called a meeting and insisted she be tested. They (the student assistance team) at first did not think it was necessary but I was insistent. By law they had 45 school days to get the testing started and it took from October till now to get the tests completed and next week I have my PPT meeting. I have already met with the school psychologist and we went over the testing together and low and behold it did show that my daughter is LD. I am relieved. Now that the problems have been identified we can get going and start getting the proper help that she needs.

If you feel something is “not right” go to the principle and request a PPT meeting and insist that he be tested. I am glad I did not wait till she was flunking everything.

Good luck,
Darcy

Ah, thanks, Darcy

My son has had an IEP for 1 1/2 years - the school refuses to do anything because he is not flunking. I’ve just about given up on getting any real help at school and am working toward what I can do myself. :-) We’ve had thirteen meetings in the last 17 months - now they are telling me he doesn’t HAVE any problems. And the kid does extremely well on standardized tests - just not out in a more dynamic environment.

Lil

Hello, I have a son who has all but given up on learning from school.I knew I had to do something but couldn’t afford to get a tutor in Phono-Graphics so in order to get him motivated to work with me I give him $5.00 for each session.I know alot of people won’t agree with this but money is a great motivator. My son is 14 and at a difficult age but if he knows he can make $5.00 in a 45 min.session he is more willing to go ahead with the session.Once we sit down he really does work hard and wants to learn for the sake of learning but the money is just a little extra incentive.Just a thought.

N/t

Hi Lil,

Your post reminded me of something I am getting ready to do.

In word perfect (and maybe in Word) there is a feature called automatic correction (or something like that). At work, if you type the word “teh” instead of “the” it changes it. There is a list of these words that are defaulted into the computer and it does it automatically. I know you can change the list and pretty sure you can add to it. I am thinking of doing that for my daughter on our home computer that she uses.

She tends to write “whant” for “want” and there are several others that I can’t recall currently, but I plan to make those changes “built in” to her computer. Is that a crutch? Maybe. Does it work? Yes. Can she do the same as an adult without anyone else knowing? Yes. Does it relieve her frustration (and MINE?) YES……….!

She’ll never be a good speller. Some people are and aren’t. There are brilliant people who can’t spell worth a darn. Then there’s me, whose pretty average, and can spell just about anything.

My theory is that anything that helps my daughter feel better about herself and her weaknesses is okay. She can dictate FCAT and she can use a word processor. Some of these kids have great stories in their very creative minds and can’t “get them on paper”. This little feature, I’m hoping, will remove another barrier for her.

Here’s hoping!

Yes, my software does that - thanks for the idea. I’m still scribing for now, but it will really help my son be more independent as he gets into higher grades. :-)

Lil

..

Simon Spells by Don Johnston might help with being a way for him to do the spelling pretty much independently.
I would also be looking hard at his reading skills.

Great preparation for the world of work, if you ask me!

Ah Sue,

I’ve been looking hard at his reading skills for a couple of years. We’re working on them - school refuses and and all help. I’ve had a lot of great help from people here.

We’ve used PG, and still use their techniques for unknown words - but when my son comes up on a new word, he still can’t decode it. We have pinpointed the problem to blending - and we’re struggling. However, he has a superior sight word vocabulary that masks his needs - I just see it because I’m his Mom.

We’ve backed off from teaching reading at home for awhile because it has become so stressful for him - and we are working on some other things at the moment and then will come back to it. :-)

Thanks for the heads up on Simon Spells. I’ve also looked at AVKO - I’m intrigued by their word families. That’s the way I’ve been trying to teach my son. Last year (prior to PG), when he actually had to write the word for spelling tests, we would write all the same vowel sound picture words in the same color - and then use a different color for a different vowel sound picture. I was hoping he could visualize the colors and words in his head during the test, and remember the correct vowel combination. Didn’t work, but it was a good idea. :-)

Lil

How old is this student? Has he been tested? These are some very typical LD type writings. After all do you want him to be able to do matching when he is writing or do you want him to write sentences with correct spelling later in life? The really unfortunate thing is that if you can’t spell, you can’t spell. I usually stress that my students use as many tools as possible to help with their written language deficits. I would really look at testing - grades do not tell the tale in this case, at least from what you have written.

Have you seen retention of spelling words or are they there for the test only?

So what is the problem? What is he not doing?

Test only - plus he can’t WRITE them correctly.

Hey Samantha -

I appreciate the questions, and the fact that you want to help - but I just can’t fight with the school system anymore. I’ve pretty much decided what type of help my son needs, and have discovered ways to provide it myself. I’ve been totally beaten by the system and am thoroughly disgusted, disappointed, and dismayed. I used to truly believe that the schools are here to help our kids - but my school system doesn’t want to. I’ve even got scientific research to back up my requests and comments (they have none) but I am not even allowed a chance to present it. Plus, with the inane comments I’ve heard at various meetings, I’m kind of scared to allow the school system to TRY to do anything with him. We’ll just go it on our own.

Lil

We are really on the same page here Lil. I have taken a “just don’t do any harm to my child” stance with the schools. I know they can’t really help. Inane, yes, that is definitely a word I would use to describe these people. Are we in the same district?

I’m in Virginia - where are you? :-)

I guess it is everywhere, except on this board.

Lil:
I thought by law if an IEP is in place they had to follow the plan. The special Ed teachers have to fill out all kinds of paper work to prove they are administering the hours of instruction indicated by the IEP. It’s illegal if they are not. This is what our special ed teacher told me. The government helps pay for some of the programs too so if they are telling the government one thing and doing another there could be big trouble.

We have our PPT meeting this coming week and I am hoping for some good and helpful modifications. That and the class size just got cut down to 17 kids. I am expecting to see improvement from now till the end of the year.

Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with the school system.
Darcy

My friend filed a state complaint b/c her son was only receiving his accoms. from 1 teacher. Lo and behold the district produced a document that every teacher had signed saying they HAVE given him all accoms as indicated on the IEP. What do you do with that?

OK, I read this whole thread, and you have pinpointed the problem; his decoding is very weak, he fought against PG, and he is working on sight memorization. This is absolutely type case for the kind of alphabet soup writing/spelling you are describing.

This problem is NOT going to get better over time, it’s going to get a lot worse. As vocabulary increases more and more each grade, there will be more and more similar-looking words and he will make more and more errors in reading and his writing will be harder and harder to guess at.

Depending on the computer to spell for him is at best slow and cumbersome, at worst totally ineffective as his efforts become to far off for the computer to guess.
The auto-correct frightens and frustrates me — OK turning teh into the, (but what if it corrected this letter — the entire meaning would be lost, right?) but in sciences and math you often have a reason to type odd letter combinations, and a computer that thinks it knows better than you do can really make a hash of your work.

So here’s what DOES work:

first, get a rough grip on what level he does spell passably. Get the Dolch list of high frequency words,. or any good set of basal readers with developmental vocabulary, and start right at the beginning with the list; in my Book 1 it’s
Peter
Jane
and
here
is
the
dog
ball
tree
in

and so on.
Also get the PG lists or any other good sequential planned phonics program, and start in with the very first list (cat, bat, hat … or whatever).

Give him a reasonable number of words per day — ten or twenty, so he doesn’t drop from fatigue— and test him *cold* (absolutely *no* studying or preview)

Important — keep all the test papers for later analysis.

If he gets more than 80% right, move up. Stop when you get to the level where he is less than 80% correct on cold spelling.

This does two things: first of all, it lets you see where his spelling is breaking down. Second, if he is like most of my students, it lets him show that he has at least some mastery of at least the most common words and/or phonetic patterns. (If he doesn’t, don’t make a fuss over it, just start at the beginning).

Now, look at the *type* of errors he is making. You have already mentioned omitting letters and later self-correcting — and the self-correcting is a really good sign, meaning that he is motivated and has some understanding of what is missing. Your description is not detailed, but I get the impression he is missing the second letter in many blends. You mention that he does not have the er-ir-ur patterns. Also check if he is missing long versus short vowel patterns, digraphs sh, ch, th, and so on.

Once you know what he is missing, start there. The problem with almost all programs is that they start where the author feels like, not where the student is, and that is a common reason for failure. If he can spell the Grade 1 words but starts failing on the Grade 2, start there. If he can spell one-syllable short-vowel words but starts failing on anything more than three letters, start there.

You can use any good basal series with word lists for high-frequency vocabulary. You can use PG or (my favourite) Check and Double Check Phonics for lists of words following various phonetic patterns, in order of difficulty. You don’t need a separate spelling program, you just need to *do* spelling.

After you have chosen a group of words to study, give them to him *cold*. You already know he can use short-term verbal memory to store the letter names temporarily, long enough to pass the spelling test, and you also already know that after the test he dumps the memory banks to clear them out for the next topic, so this method had zero retention and is a total waste of time.
If he writes a word correctly first try, praise him and move on to the next. If he makes an error, stop him and have him read back what he has written. Insist on tracking left to right. If he can’t do that, you read what he has, and ask him what is wrong/what is missing. If he is still unsure, pronounce the word very very slowly stressing each sound, and ask him what goes in what place.
. Stress *order* — first sound, first letter, second sound, second letter (or digraph), and so on. Discourage the habit of writing something down and going back to fill in — this back and forthing is what has his ordering all mixed up to begin with. Proofreading comes later, but for the beginning work strictly left to right. Now, if he does get a correct first and last sound but misses the middle, you can be positive about the parts he did get right, but have him re-write the word from the beginning with the missing piece in the correct order.
Note — if a word has an unusual vowel combination or a silent letter, it is perfectly OK to help him with the parts that he obviously cannot figure out logically. This is teaching, not torture. At first you have to tell him there’s a silent letter and often what it is; after time you just ask him if something is missing.

At first this will be very very slow; this is the first time anyone has ever *taught* him anything about spelling, his previous experience being memorize-regurgitate-forget, don’t think about it and just do it, so he will find a new approach very weird at first. But keep at it, tell him that since he is not getting anything out of what the school has done at least it’s worth spending time doing something different.
By the way, do all this in pen and avoid the erasing trap. If he makes an error, line through it and re-try. Simple, quick, no problem. This is exercise in *learning*, not faking an unattainable perfection. Writing is productive, time spent on erasing is counter-productive. And he and you both can learn from the pattern of his errors.

After you have worked with him through a few lists, pull out just his problem words and work on them again. Keep his work and let him see how many he *has* mastered.

When he does work in other subjects, paragraphs, or whatever, use the same approach: Have him say what he wants to say in a sentence, then try to write the first word; if he can only get the first letter independently, OK, so he writes the first letter. Then sound it out with him, giving him a chance to figure out each part on his own before you tell him. Praise what he does get right, correct errors, and give direct help on irregular spellings/silent letters. Stress order. Go one word at a time until the sentence is finished, have him re-read the whole sentence, and then ask him to say his second sentence.

Yes, I am doing exactly this with five students from Grades 2 through 6 right now, two in French and three in bilingual English/French, and it is working for all of them in both languages; it does work. Slowly and step by painful step, but it does work.

Many thanks for Victoria’s long post, which is very very helpful. My d.d. who is not yet 6 1/2 shows spelling problems very similar to Lil’s son. After reading a number of posts on spelling problems, and having talked to her IEP teacher last week at Parent’s Night, I think I have come to a better understanding of her problems. Her IEP teacher thought she has an excellent visual memory — and this visual memory (which is some how marred by left-right reversal problem) is probably hindering her looking at English words phonetically since she merely sees the whole word when she reads, and she has not picked up the phonetic rules of English. Then, her auditory discrimination is not so good since she has mild hearing loss — she is weak at discriminating sounds or blends.

But it is good that her problems are identified quite early, and I am seeing some improvements. For her IEP, I am given work sheets of different phonetic patterns to work with her. We just did the first sheet — CVC, and now she is able to do three letter words, though it took her a while to actually figure out the vowels. We just started the magic e (that changes the vowel sounds.) The next will be CCVC, blends at the beginning. When I am doing this with her, I also use a bit of the sequential spelling method to expand her spelling vocabulary. For her normal English class, she has a weekly spelling of 7 to 8 high frequency words.

Having read what Victoria wrote, I am more comfortable doing what I am doing with her.

Many thanks again for all your good advices.

Helan