No Teacher Support at IEP

Dear TD-sounds like what happens to so many parents at IEP meetings. First rule-DO NOT go alone. Take someone to help advocate for you and your child. A spouse, relative , good friend, or even an advocate with a local LD advocacy group can help. Second-make sure they ALL realize your child has difficulties THAT HE CANNOT CONTROL. He can learn to compensate, but it is a true learning process, and will take time. Third-have your child take a neuropsychological test to completely identify the problems. Many times ADD and ADHD have companion conditions that are masked by the ADD/ADHD, and a bright mind. My ADHD son also has Aspergers Syndrom, which includes among others such difficulties as difficulty writing, social communication problems, and orgizational problems. When the school district tried to deny my son commonly accepted accomodations for his difficulties, we had the neuropsychological testing done, and AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. That was when we found out about the other condition. So if they deny your son has medically based problems, send the school a letter requesting the testing at their expense. You are entitled to this under federal law. Go for it. But do get the testing. The sooner youfind out, the sooner youcan get the help you need for your child. Luck, CP

I would take examples of his work, writing, tape recording of reading, etc., and ask the others if this is acceptable for THEIR child. I would pound the drum of Middle School is approaching. I would, as stated above, find a good advocate, or a very assertive friend, and take them with you.

TD,

Advice from both above is good. Don’t go alone, have someone come along with who hopefully has genuine interest in your child.

Take examples of current work and ask all if it is really “just fine” and at current grade level.

Do keep pounding the drum of middle school coming up. You want to address the issues at the youngest age which is the best opportunity for remediation and learning coping skills.

You say he will be given a test prior to the meeting. If that is the case, then do not discuss the test until the results are given to you, the protocols are explained to you and you have a better understanding of what is at stake. To get the results shoved at you in a meeting and then to have to make quick decisions about the IEP is not something you should do. At best, ask to schedule another meeting to review the results, AFTER you have been given all the info so you can digest and have a better understanding.

If you have some time, go to many of the educational web sites like www.wrightslaw.com, www.edlaw.com, or go to sock’s site from this web site, she has great insight and help to get you to places to get a better understanding of what the IEP is really all about, about your rights, your child’s rights etc…

I am not interested in having you march into the meeting with your parent’s rights flag waving high and “demanding” anything. I am far more concerned with your naivity (sp?) and being steamrolled without any idea that there are laws to protect both you and your child, and you should be made aware. Knowledge is the power. Seek it, learn it, and use it wisely.

The independent testing will also be helpful, as will those who administer those tests. The Neuropsych eval would be highly helpful, get one that is covering all suspected areas of deficit if you can (possibly thru insurance, or simply pay out of pocket if funds are available). Get any and all independent testing done by those who have no financial ties to your (or any) school district.

Bring copies of the independent evals for all, request that the independent eval be added to your child’s IEP records, and if they squawk, the district does have the right to dispute… but then the burden is in their court to bring the dispute forward, and that is a separate issue.

Have the independent evaluator(s) come to the meeting, or send along a separate letter clarifying your child’s level of function in all areas. Do not ask the IE to do any of this until after eval is done and the level of function is determined, so as to not contaminate their thought process while evaluation is taking place. (it gets hard to figure out where and when to bite one’s tongue, but you’ll get the hang of it).

The teacher not being up to speed with special ed is not new, nor is it helpful, however, you need to keep things as non-confrontative as possible. Be respectful and polite, ask your questions and if you are not satisfied with the answer, ask it again until you get the answer. Do not let yourself get steamrolled into moving on. Take notes, or bring a tape recorder to tape the meeting (there are small rules about the tape recorder, but don’t worry). Have that 2nd person there with you. Write out your questions on a piece of paper prior to the meeting. Stay organized. Bring a snack so you keep your blood sugar level ok. Keep a sense of humor. It is sooooooooooo hard to not take things personally and then keep from getting your hackles up. You need to remember your initial focus and purpose for going in there and keep the focus on that: your child’s IEP. If you find your temper starting to flare, ask to take a 5 minute break and cool off. Tell them you need to go to the bathroom and NEVER let them see you sweat (if you can help it). Stick to your guns. Trust your parental instincts and no matter what…

if you do not agree…

NEVER, EVER, EVER SIGN THE IEP IF YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT THE DOCUMENT SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TD,

Advice from both above is good. Don’t go alone, have someone come along with who hopefully has genuine interest in your child.

Take examples of current work and ask all if it is really “just fine” and at current grade level.

Do keep pounding the drum of middle school coming up. You want to address the issues at the youngest age which is the best opportunity for remediation and learning coping skills.

You say he will be given a test prior to the meeting. If that is the case, then do not discuss the test until the results are given to you, the protocols are explained to you and you have a better understanding of what is at stake. To get the results shoved at you in a meeting and then to have to make quick decisions about the IEP is not something you should do. At best, ask to schedule another meeting to review the results, AFTER you have been given all the info so you can digest and have a better understanding.

If you have some time, go to many of the educational web sites like www.wrightslaw.com, www.edlaw.com, or go to sock’s site from this web site, she has great insight and help to get you to places to get a better understanding of what the IEP is really all about, about your rights, your child’s rights etc…

I am not interested in having you march into the meeting with your parent’s rights flag waving high and “demanding” anything. I am far more concerned with your naivity (sp?) and being steamrolled without any idea that there are laws to protect both you and your child, and you should be made aware. Knowledge is the power. Seek it, learn it, and use it wisely.

The independent testing will also be helpful, as will those who administer those tests. The Neuropsych eval would be highly helpful, get one that is covering all suspected areas of deficit if you can (possibly thru insurance, or simply pay out of pocket if funds are available). Get any and all independent testing done by those who have no financial ties to your (or any) school district.

Bring copies of the independent evals for all, request that the independent eval be added to your child’s IEP records, and if they squawk, the district does have the right to dispute… but then the burden is in their court to bring the dispute forward, and that is a separate issue.

Have the independent evaluator(s) come to the meeting, or send along a separate letter clarifying your child’s level of function in all areas. Do not ask the IE to do any of this until after eval is done and the level of function is determined, so as to not contaminate their thought process while evaluation is taking place. (it gets hard to figure out where and when to bite one’s tongue, but you’ll get the hang of it).

The teacher not being up to speed with special ed is not new, nor is it helpful, however, you need to keep things as non-confrontative as possible. Be respectful and polite, ask your questions and if you are not satisfied with the answer, ask it again until you get the answer. Do not let yourself get steamrolled into moving on. Take notes, or bring a tape recorder to tape the meeting (there are small rules about the tape recorder, but don’t worry). Have that 2nd person there with you. Write out your questions on a piece of paper prior to the meeting. Stay organized. Bring a snack so you keep your blood sugar level ok. Keep a sense of humor. It is sooooooooooo hard to not take things personally and then keep from getting your hackles up. You need to remember your initial focus and purpose for going in there and keep the focus on that: your child’s IEP. If you find your temper starting to flare, ask to take a 5 minute break and cool off. Tell them you need to go to the bathroom and NEVER let them see you sweat (if you can help it). Stick to your guns. Trust your parental instincts and no matter what…

if you do not agree…

NEVER, EVER, EVER SIGN THE IEP IF YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT THE DOCUMENT SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TD,

Advice from both above is good. Don’t go alone, have someone come along with who hopefully has genuine interest in your child.

Take examples of current work and ask all if it is really “just fine” and at current grade level.

Do keep pounding the drum of middle school coming up. You want to address the issues at the youngest age which is the best opportunity for remediation and learning coping skills.

You say he will be given a test prior to the meeting. If that is the case, then do not discuss the test until the results are given to you, the protocols are explained to you and you have a better understanding of what is at stake. To get the results shoved at you in a meeting and then to have to make quick decisions about the IEP is not something you should do. At best, ask to schedule another meeting to review the results, AFTER you have been given all the info so you can digest and have a better understanding.

If you have some time, go to many of the educational web sites like www.wrightslaw.com, www.edlaw.com, or go to sock’s site from this web site, she has great insight and help to get you to places to get a better understanding of what the IEP is really all about, about your rights, your child’s rights etc…

I am not interested in having you march into the meeting with your parent’s rights flag waving high and “demanding” anything. I am far more concerned with your naivity (sp?) and being steamrolled without any idea that there are laws to protect both you and your child, and you should be made aware. Knowledge is the power. Seek it, learn it, and use it wisely.

The independent testing will also be helpful, as will those who administer those tests. The Neuropsych eval would be highly helpful, get one that is covering all suspected areas of deficit if you can (possibly thru insurance, or simply pay out of pocket if funds are available). Get any and all independent testing done by those who have no financial ties to your (or any) school district.

Bring copies of the independent evals for all, request that the independent eval be added to your child’s IEP records, and if they squawk, the district does have the right to dispute… but then the burden is in their court to bring the dispute forward, and that is a separate issue.

Have the independent evaluator(s) come to the meeting, or send along a separate letter clarifying your child’s level of function in all areas. Do not ask the IE to do any of this until after eval is done and the level of function is determined, so as to not contaminate their thought process while evaluation is taking place. (it gets hard to figure out where and when to bite one’s tongue, but you’ll get the hang of it).

The teacher not being up to speed with special ed is not new, nor is it helpful, however, you need to keep things as non-confrontative as possible. Be respectful and polite, ask your questions and if you are not satisfied with the answer, ask it again until you get the answer. Do not let yourself get steamrolled into moving on. Take notes, or bring a tape recorder to tape the meeting (there are small rules about the tape recorder, but don’t worry). Have that 2nd person there with you. Write out your questions on a piece of paper prior to the meeting. Stay organized. Bring a snack so you keep your blood sugar level ok. Keep a sense of humor. It is sooooooooooo hard to not take things personally and then keep from getting your hackles up. You need to remember your initial focus and purpose for going in there and keep the focus on that: your child’s IEP. If you find your temper starting to flare, ask to take a 5 minute break and cool off. Tell them you need to go to the bathroom and NEVER let them see you sweat (if you can help it). Stick to your guns. Trust your parental instincts and no matter what…

if you do not agree…

NEVER, EVER, EVER SIGN THE IEP IF YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT THE DOCUMENT SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s early, hit the wrong button twice…sorry.

Didn’t mean to sign off and post twice while yelling :)

Oh well, just take it slow and don’t be pressured.

Best of luck.

Andy

I just thought you were demonstrating how to get your point across in an IEP meeting. Just keep stating your position and don’t back down.

okay got a bunch of questions to ask.

1. Who did the Wiat? Did the district do it,or is it an independent eval?
2. Does he already have an IEP? Has he met goals in the IEP?
3. If they meet without you to discuss services( and believe me this is very illegal) do they give you in writing what was discussed? Or what they are willing to give him?

I can give you all kinds of advice,but as far as strategy goes,need more info:-)

I would ask that it be put in your son’s IEP that he be given a teacher who understands and is sensitive to his learning strengths and weaknesses. A teacher who thinks a child just isn’t trying hard enough really pushes my buttons. I have a really big chip on my shoulder about this issue because of having teachers who didn’t understand how difficult school was for me. My mother was too disabled to be able to help me. I quit going to school all together in 9th grade. It took many years of therapy before I was able to go back to school but when I did, I graduated from university in the top 10% of my class. I say this not to brag but to show that once we LDers get a little support, we can accomplish a lot.

Now I have two sons. One is 5 1/2, autistic and has been in special ed for three years. The other is 6 1/2 and it looks like he has similar learning challenges to mine. He already cries when asked to do the school work he find challenging and that is with all kinds of sensitive and caring support. If anyone ever accuses him of not trying hard enough, there’s a good chance that I will pull him out of school. Of course, I am giving our school principal plenty of warning regarding my position. After going through what I went through when I was in school and then having to fight our county for services for my autistic son, I have learned to make it clear that I can be the school’s best friend or worst enemy. Don’t misunderstand, I am not unreasonable. I don’t ask for much, just that my children not be damaged by their schools. Fortunately, once my autistic son finishes up his third year of the special ed preschool program, we won’t have to deal with the county anymore. Once he is mainstreamed, we deal directly with our local school district. So far, I am enjoying good relationships with everyone in our district.

Meanwhile, I volunteer two days a week, am generous with cash and material donations, bring coffee and snacks to our meetings, keep informed about what is happening at the school and what programs are available, make myself avaiable to support other parents and school staff. I get private testing and support when neccessary. And, I am not shy about my feelings regarding the education of my children. My children will not slip through any cracks. Actually, I think the “crack” analogy is misleading. There are gaping holes, entire oceans, vast seas, between special ed and regular ed that need to be bridged.

What I learned from fighting the county for services for my autistic child… Never sign an IEP at the meeting even if you think you agree with it. Take it home and make sure you agree with how things are worded. Think about whether or not the wording could be interpreted in a way that would not be benificial for your son. Look for what is not stated in writing. Is there anything missing that could hurt your son?

Good luck to you. Your son is lucky to have you advocating for him.

Is that enough paragraphs for everyong:-)

SOCKS,
what is your web site?

http://expage.com/socksandfriends

have fun:-)

Thank you SOcks and everyone else who took the time to answer my q.
I have printed out all the responses and truly appreciate all the good advice.

To answer your Q-

1. School will do Wiat 2 this month.

2. yes he has an IEP but goals are vague and I don’t have enough
writing goals in the current IEP. That needs to change of course
now that I am more aware of his writing deficiencies. You might be
interested to know that in my SD goals are rarely discussed. at IEP
meetings except in a general way.!!!!!

I do get a quarterly report card that does tell me how well he
is doing regarding the current goals.

But at meeting time .they allow about 20-30 minutes
a meeting . the teacher, spec ed teacher, speech , and ot all read their
prewritten reports . Then we discuss placement for next year and the
meeting is over. Never have I been at a meeting where goals are discussed
except in vague terms, Like - We will put alot of speech goals in for next year.
Usually at about the 25 minute point , they say well we have another meeting
scheduled after yours and we really don’t think its fair to keep them waiting.

Sooo going over current goals, and selecting new ones for next year just never seems to happen because of time restraints.. I have
spoken to other parents and it seems to be handled the same way district wide.
From reading this board , Im realizing that this isn’t the right way but as I say
this is what they will do if you follow their typical procedure.

Im actually thinking the best approach is to hire an advocate
for the upcoming meeting because Im starting to feel really overwhelmed
and depressed by all this, Im trying real hard to keep it in perspective
but its so hard when I feel as though my child’s success is going
to be determined by how well I handle myslef at this meeting.

Thnaks again for all the info,

n/t

okay..

1. I would either hire an advocate,or bring someone who looks like an advocate. ( when you get the meeting invitation and send it back in,make sure you state,that you will be bringing a “support person” and a TAPE RECORDER) I read somewhere,(might of been in the mother’s from hell website,because they are hilarious),if you got to, bring a life size cardboard cut out of Hillary Clinton,personally I would bring one of Barbara Bateman. The point being, make sure you bring someone,and make sure you get this meeting documented.

This school district is in violation of a multitude of procedural safeguards,IEP,and meeting notice sections of IDEA.

. School will do Wiat 2 this month.

I would write a letter stating that in order for you to be a “equal participent” in the IEP meeting process that you will need the results of this eval at least one week prior to the IEP meeting. They must provide you the report prior to the meeting in order for you to determine whether you need an Independent evaluation at the district expense.This by the way includes the OT, Speech any related services.

I would also write a letter detailing the fact that you WILL be discussing goals,that you will need however long it will take,and if they need to reschedule be prepared to do this.

They must do a few things by law,
they must allow you equal input into the IEP document. They might tell you that it wouldn’t be fair to the other parent to make them wait,but in reality they are not being fair to ANY of the students. If they scheduled an IEP for 25 minutes that is NOT your problem. I would simply state” then we will have to reschedule this IEP for a time where everyone here can discuss the goals my son will need to progress in school.” They know what constitutes an IEP team and what they are suppose to do. If they can get away with not doing it,well,that is the question.

As far as the evals. You CAN disagree with their findings. If you did, then they need to give you more time to determine that what you need to do at the IEP. Which would be to request another eval or an idependent eval at district expense. IN order for them to do this,you must have a copy of this prior to the meeting.

here is the section of IDEA

b) Types of Procedures.
The procedures required by this section shall include —

(1) an opportunity for the parents of a child with a disability to examine all records relating to such child and to participate in meetings with respect to the identification, evaluation, and educational placement of the child, and the provision of a free appropriate public education to such child, and to obtain an independent educational evaluation of the child;

they must provide you a copy of these procedural safeguards
here is the section of this:

1) In General. A copy of the procedural safeguards available to the parents of a child with a disability shall be given to the parents, at a minimum —

(A) upon initial referral for evaluation;
(B) upon each notification of an individualized education program meeting and upon re-evaluation of the child; and

(C) upon registration of a complaint under subsection (b)(6).

(2) Contents. The procedural safeguards notice shall include a full explanation of the procedural safeguards, written in the native language of the parents, unless it clearly is not feasible to do so, and written in an easily understandable manner, available under this section and under regulations promulgated by the Secretary relating to —

(A) independent educational evaluation;
(B) prior written notice;

(C) parental consent;

(D) access to educational records;

(E) opportunity to present complaints;

(F) the child’s placement during pendency of due process proceedings;

(G) procedures for students who are subject to placement in an interim alternative educational setting;

(H) requirements for unilateral placement by parents of children in private schools at public expense;

(I) mediation;

(J) due process hearings, including requirements for disclosure of evaluation results and recommendations;

(K) State-level appeals (if applicable in that State);

(L) civil actions; and

(M) attorneys’ fees.

they need to know you know this. No they won’t be happy. Yes they will accuse you of really messing up their schedules,waving your flag,making it hard for your kid,being a general pain in the rear,but in reality,who is screwing who here? MHO

td

This is what I was talking about. It’s early again today, I’ll try not to perseverate on the wrong key, again :) when I finish this post.

The only adjustment I would make, unless the law has changed, is I would only give the district 24 hour notice about the tape recorder. Make the notice in writing and make it as simple as possible. You don’t “need” to have a reason to want to tape the meeting, although, if someone asks, just tell them you get overwhelmed at the meetings and tend to forget things, it is helpful for you to listen to it again at home to make sure you understood all that went on…

They have a right to tape the meeting ONLY if you tape it, don’t worry if they break out a recorder too.

socks couldn’t be more right on target about who is messing what up, but don’t get flustered. In fact, if you find you are getting anywhere with this, you should probably find a gentle way to pass along the information here to other parents who are also concerned about thier children being flushed thru this district’s special ed system.

Best regards.

Andy

“What I learned from fighting the county for services for my autistic child… Never sign an IEP at the meeting even if you think you agree with it. Take it home and make sure you agree with how things are worded. Think about whether or not the wording could be interpreted in a way that would not be benificial for your son. Look for what is not stated in writing. Is there anything missing that could hurt your son?”

td,

This statement, as well as the whole post, is well worth re-reading! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, no matter how great the desire to sign and escape from an uncomfortable meeting… tell them you wish to re-read the document and if you are in agreement, you will sign it, or what you do agree to and then bring it back in a day or so. DON’T BE PRESSURED INTO SIGNING!

If you only agree with certian parts, simply put your initials next to those parts, if you have things that you dispute, DO NOT SIGN THE BOTTOM OF THE DOCUMENT AND THINK THAT LATER YOU CAN SIMPLY CHANGE THINGS if you disagree. They will tell you you can do this, but do not do it.

If you get to any level of dispute at a later date, they will do everything they can to make you look flaky, and say things like “he/she agreed at the meeting, now he/she simply changes her mind…”, “we are trying to accomodate this parent, but…” I could go on and on, just don’t be quick to sign.

Make sure you understand what certain words mean to them at the district. Don’t feel dumb about asking what certain things mean. They have their own lingo about educational stuff, and it doesn’t matter what “you think it means”, it only matters how “they” interpret it.

That’s it for now.

Andy

Thank you Socks and Andy..I will take all your suggestions and incorporate
a game plan.It is much appreciated!

There is a big difference in what the child can do on an achievement test and what they do in real life. If a child is ADHD and no medication is being used then the child will be ADHD and have trouble concentrating. It isn’t because he wants to but because he has to. There isn’t anything the teacher can do to change the behavior of this child. Without a child being able to concentrate the best we can do in education is to provide structure and clear expectations. But as I state frequently on this BB there aren’t enough adult staff to sit with each child and keep them on task. Wonderful if we could but we can’t anymore then I can make everyone wear a seatbelt. If we had someone standing at the end of every driveway and ticketed people if they didn’t, then maybe everyone would modify their behavior - it isn’t going to happen. I feel sorry for the kiddos who are truly ADHD and have no meds - their school days must be heck.

I’m one of those SPED teachers but hopefully not like the ones you described. I would request that an administrator affiliated with the SPED department be in attendance. Mention your concerns about violation of the law and that should get their attention. General education administration doesn’t have the same vested interest as a SPED director who understands very well due process. Don’t sign the enrollment form until you are satisfied with the IEP, our IEPs only indicate that a signature is a sign of attendance not agreement. This is a team decision and you have your vote. What is the disability of your child? Is it Other Health Impaired due to the ADHD or does he/she have a Learning Disability and in what area? Before more information can be outlined, those are important pieces of information.

thought of something else - Request a copy of the IEP in advance of the meeting. This is your right - if they say they can’t have it before then reschedule until you can review it with the psy eval. The IEP should be written to parallel the psy eval. If there is a written language problem then a goal for written language should be included. On the other hand if written language is not noted on the eval. that there is a problem - then it is not appropriate to include that as a goal. The psy. eval. should drive the IEP truck.

”. If they meet without you to discuss services( and believe me this is very illegal) do they give you in writing what was discussed? Or what they are willing to give him?”

This is interesting as I was asked by my son’s SD speech therapist to give indie evaluations for the speech dept could have their “pre-IEP” meeting before the IEP meeting. Is that illegal? If so, could you site the violation code?

n/t

They will probably use the we are preparing for the IEP meeting,but if is in reference to the IEP they really can’t meet if you WANT to participate. In other words they can meet,but they can’t refuse you particpation. I would think it would be benifitial to your son to allow them access to the eval.

Subpart E—Procedural Safeguards
Due Process Procedures for Parents and Children
§300.501 Opportunity to examine records; parent participation in meetings.

(a) General. The parents of a child with a disability must be afforded, in accordance with the procedures of §§300.562- 300.569, an opportunity to—

(1) Inspect and review all education records with respect to—

(i) The identification, evaluation, and educational placement of the child; and

(ii) The provision of FAPE to the child; and

(2) Participate in meetings with respect to—

(i) The identification, evaluation, and educational placement of the child; and

(ii) The provision of FAPE to the child.

(b) Parent participation in meetings.

(1) Each public agency shall provide notice consistent with §300.345(a)(1) and (b)(1) to ensure that parents of children with disabilities have the opportunity to participate in meetings described in paragraph (a)(2) of this section.

(2) A meeting does not include informal or unscheduled conversations involving public agency personnel and conversations on issues such as teaching methodology, lesson plans, or coordination of service provision if those issues are not addressed in the childís IEP. A meeting also does not include preparatory activities that public agency personnel engage in to develop a proposal or response to a parent proposal that will be discussed at a later meeting.

(c) Parent involvement in placement decisions.

(1) Each public agency shall ensure that the parents of each child with a disability are members of any group that makes decisions on the educational placement of their child.

(2) In implementing the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section, the public agency shall use procedures consistent with the procedures described in §300.345(a) through (b)(1).

(3) If neither parent can participate in a meeting in which a decision is to be made relating to the educational placement of their child, the public agency shall use other methods to ensure their participation, including individual or conference telephone calls, or video conferencing.

(4) A placement decision may be made by a group without the involvement of the parents, if the public agency is unable to obtain the parents’ participation in the decision. In this case, the public agency must have a record of its attempt to ensure their involvement, including information that is consistent with the requirements of §300.345(d).

(5) The public agency shall make reasonable efforts to ensure that the parents understand, and are able to participate in, any group discussions relating to the educational placement of their child, including arranging for an interpreter for parents with deafness, or whose native language is other than English.

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1414(f), 1415(b)(1))

n/t