Proficiency

Anitya wrote:

> Schools cannot MAKE every child perform to a level
> predetermined by the lawmakers

Ain’t THAT the truth. Now, can we convince the law makers? This isn’t the fault of the kids, the parents OR the teachers. It just is.

> I just spent a year of hard work trying to remediate a nice
> little LD child I have in resource. I really thought her
> scores would increase. I have used (I believe) appropriate
> techniques and teaching with her. She actually can read
> better, but her scores went down slightly on the Woodcock
> Johnson. She has a rapid naming deficit and I have worked
> for a year on reading fluency very hard. She still cannot
> read probes with any real increase in speed and accuracy.
> Yes, she can read better on informal reading inventories.
> Her rate has improved in reading connected text and her
> comprehension is good. She can read about 70 words per
> minute at grade level and answer comprehension questions. A
> year ago she read 30-some words per minute on grade level.

If I were her parent, I would be THRILLED with this increase in real-life performance. That _is_ really what counts most in the long run for the benefit of the child, not what a standardized test says.

> Some folks come on this board and just make things look so
> bloody easy. Just use this program and presto, bingo child
> is remediated! You know, when real LD is present, this is
> not always so easy.

Thank you so much for saying that. Particularly with a kid like mine, it can bevery frustrating to hear “If you only did this program or that program, you would remediate his underlying deficits.” I have come to beleive that while we can teach my son compensating strategies, and we can accomodate his differences so that he CAN learn the content, at the end of the day, (and at the end of his formal education) he will STILL be NLD.

My goals for him might seem simplistic. But I believe if I can get him through his formal education with solid basic skills, a good “tool box” of compensating strategies, an appreciation for life-long learning AND do it without him becoming an emotional basket case, he’ll do fine in the adult world. He does not need to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist. I happen to think that his skill set could make him an awesome newspaper journalist.

> So, I just wanted to state that there are very real things
> that affect standardized test scores and proficiency. Many
> folks today are minimizing the affects of a true and real LD
> upon achievement and minimizing the affects of the many
> variables over which the school has much less control on
> achievement. Proficiency bars are very high here in CA, we
> won’t get all children to those levels, ever. Sorry.

Which is why I dread our MCAS graduation requirement. My hope at this point is that the state will be sued enough times between now and when my son graduates that they will have modified their requirements to be more realistic. When I here how many average or better general ed kids don’t pass the MCAS, oarticularly on the first try, I can’t help but worry about one like mine.

Karen

I find the tendency towards high stake testing distressing. It seems to me that lawmakers expect every child to be at least average to above average in ability. Besides the LD population, there is no recognition that some kids are “slow learners” who may always have difficulty with abstract thinking.

In the weeks before our high stakes testing (you do not pass the grade kind of consequence), my son had several very major meltdowns in which he just lost control. He started telling us how dumb he was over and over again. It has been a couple weeks now and he still isn’t quite back to normal but much better. I think there is something wrong with a system that puts so much pressure on kids. (We never told him the consequences of the test but he found out at school).

As far as LD being LD forever, I think with present knowledge some kids really can be remediated. Others can not be. My son is amazingly better than he was three years ago when he wasn’t even on the curve in first grade. He now performs about the 30% in his class, which mean he still really struggles. He is still def. LD. I must admit I did prescribe to the theory that if we worked hard, we could remediate it completely. That hasn’t happened and may never but still my son is functioning reasonably well in a regular class, with reading both as a pull out and with the class, so it hasn’t been for nothing. I just wish I could figure out what is still holding up his reading. We have overcome the RAN problem for the most part but we still have a child who miscalls and skips words. He also has right brain deficits so nothing is easy for him.

Beth

I don’t think you have simplistic goals for your son at all. It is funny how having an LD child changes your perspective on things. I will be happy if my LD child graduates from high school emotionally intact, and able to read well enough to function as an adult. It isn’t important to me anymore that he go to college, although we are doing everything possible to allow him as many options as possible.

Beth

Our schools fourth graders were “chosen” by the governemtn to take a test that we couldn’t say no to. This was given exactly 5 days before the students were scheduled to begin 3 days of TerraNova testing. They will then take the ASK test for 4 dyas in May. I teach a fourth grade inclusion class with 20 students, 8 of whom are classified. One parent chose not to send her child for the goverment testing, and 3 parents chose not to send their children for the TerraNova’s. These students melt down during a regular, modified, math test. I agree that we need to use standardized testing, as it does serve some purpose. But 3 separate tests encompassing 8 days in 2 months….please give us a break. You end up having to “teach to the test” because we haven’t fully finished the math curriculum so we had to jump ahead to fractions while still in the middle of long division so that the students wouldn’t completely freeze. We had to hope that those who could absorb some of it did, and those that couldn’t could at least say that they had a basic knowledge to take an educated guess. Now this week it is back to the curriculum.

On the ESPA’s, which were our state test prior to “No Child Left Behind” and the new test called ASK, the SpEd and LEP students were included separately from the General Education students. I would hope that this will continue and those schools that have a higher percentage of SpEd students will not be penalized under this new legislation.

I went to our school district’s state testing information meeting. Alot of parents were upset that their child may not pass.Alot wanted to be able to not take the test. It is done at 4th,7th and to graduate 10th.The 7th graders now will have to pass the 10th grade test to graduate and the school has those couple years to help those kids graduate.But it didn’t sound like the district had set any guidelines as to how they were going to accomplish this. Now that is scary.My child is in 4th it was suggested she not take it.I want to make sure they teach my child so she will stay close to standards and what better way than to keep the school accountable with the test.I am not using the test as a guide to how well my child is doing. I am using it as a tool to get the school to teach my child, otherwise if they don’t have to get her up to standards why do they have to try? Right now they are just happy with her progressing (we have alot of outside help).Progressing is good but with standards where the school is accountable it should bring about the needed help for all students.Hopefully the testing will bring about needed change when we see the volume of kids not reaching standards.

Schools cannot MAKE every child perform to a level predetermined by the lawmakers

Amen. We each come to this planet with our own talents - also our own liabilities.

I just spent a year of hard work trying to remediate a nice little LD child I have in resource. I really thought her scores would increase. I have used (I believe) appropriate techniques and teaching with her. She actually can read better, but her scores went down slightly on the Woodcock Johnson.

Her scores probably went down because even though she’s gaining, she’s competing against a moving target.

She has a rapid naming deficit and I have worked for a year on reading fluency very hard. She still cannot read probes with any real increase in speed and accuracy. Yes, she can read better on informal reading inventories. Her rate has improved in reading connected text and her comprehension is good. She can read about 70 words per minute at grade level and answer comprehension questions. A year ago she read 30-some words per minute on grade level.

To double reading speed in a year is a considerable move. She’s still about 30 wpm below where the progress really begins showing on the standardized testing. Yet, as your data shows, you’re on track to not only make progress, but to make a difference. Individualize your own goals per child - knowing this wonderful little girl has a learning disability and all of those miracle kids we all experience probably didn’t. Keep firing away, Ken

Well, I was one of those kids growing up in a low socioeconomic status community. We moved a lot, and some of our temporary places were really low SES, our high school district including one of the worst towns in the country at the time (since then it’s been literally wiped off the map). A lot of my neighbours and friends don’t come from rich families either. I am very, very grateful that our school system did NOT write off low socioecomnomic status kids and relegate us to a watered-down or second-class curriculum. The high-stakes testing, and the former school inspections, required all schools to teach all their students to a high standard.
In my teaching career, I saw a lot of the opposite side of the coin in the 1970’s and 80’s when outside standards were anathema, and the administrators of the schools I taught in said openly that they did not expect the majority of the students to learn anything at all. My niece and nephew lost out on their chances for an education in this era of low expectations.
In the present situation where high-stakes testing is being re-introduced with a lot of political pressure, there are certainly some transition problems and mistakes are being made. The opposite no-standards system was not better.

I think there has to be a middle ground with testing. I have seen this year both the good and the bad side of it. The Florida Writes exam requires students to write a structured essay in response to a prompt. My son got lots of solid writing instruction this year. It would not have happened without this exam.

On the other hand, the math exam required higher level thinking. A kid who could do his multiplication tables but not problem solve would do no better than one who didn’t know his multiplication tables at all. It was also very verbal which penalizes language impaired kids twice (once for reading test). I also saw his teacher skipping around the text trying to cover what was on the exam most in time. Teaching to the test in this case did not seem to benefit students. It also seems to me that requiring higher level thinking for fourth graders to pass to fifth is misguided. (without passing these exams you can be retained).

Beth

Thanks for the encouragement, Ken. I worked on the report yesterday. She dropped 9 points on word ID of Woodcock Johnson, but increased 10 in passage comprehension. Spelling actually increased 8 points, but reading fluency dropped by 2.

She passed the word recognition test of the Johns at grade level, sight recognition with 75%, last year she scored 65% on her “then” grade level. A year ago she read at 30-40 wpm at grade level and below. This year scores ranged from 42 wpm (on one passage only) to 98 wpm, with 70 as the median. I tested her at 4th grade level to have data to compare to next year when she is in 4th grade. She read one passage at 62 wpm and the other at 79 wpm. Clearly she is pretty well OK until she has to stop and decode unknown words, where she loses seconds. Her accuracy is usually above 95%.

This little lady has a pretty high IQ, close to 120. I have used Great Leaps with her for a year. She has really struggled to achieve fast/accurate scores on the phonics and phrases probes. Her high IQ really serves her well in reading connected text. She is one of those youngsters who makes too many sloppy errors on easy words. Great Leaps has helped to decrease this. However, I cannot help but suspect there are visual processing issues that I really cannot address.

I would love to have a developmental optometrist look at her. I know that the field is still minimizing the effects of visual problems on reading disability, but I have this child and two others who display this similar pattern: very slow, sloppy reading with good word attack skills and comprehension. I am not absolutely convinced there are not vision issues that are causing these children difficulty with the physical act of reading.

Sloppy errors on easy words is a sign of a vision problem. My son can decode big words but makes many sloppy errors. He too compensates pretty well most of the time.

This must be very hard for you. You are certainly doing what you can but without access to vision therapy it is an uphill climb.

I found an interesting book for educators at my doctors office. It is called Eyes on Track, it is filled with vision therapy type exercises that are designed to be used in the classroom setting. The exercises can be done as part of a large group and deal with issues like directionality, tracking etc

They claim 15 minutes a day will have a big impact. Sorry, I don’t have an author but will try to get next time I am there if you can’t find it.
I know this is beyond what many teachers can do because of lack of support or understanding that these are real issues.

Anitya,

I am curious- how much does this girl work at home?
Is all the progress only due to your work with her?

I started suspecting the visual issues with my son, and we are supposed to go for another visit during his next break in school.

But for him although he can decode quite well, the memory is impacting his capabilities to decode long multisyllabic words. He is getting lost in the middle of the word. He will get the first syllable, sometimes even three of them, but once he starts blending he will scramble them (the syllables or the sounds within syllables) and is getting very frustrated that he is “losing it”. What I found helpful is blending syllables “from the end”, i.e. starting with the last syllable and adding to the word ending (beyond recognizing the typical suffixes and pre-fixes), but I know this is against the “left to right” sequencing, so I am not sure whether to continue such approach or not.

Any hints for that?
Thank you,
Ewa

I am not absolutely convinced there are not vision issues that are causing these children difficulty with the physical act of reading.

Yes, we spend so much time “flying by the seat of our pants.” You don’t know how many times I tried to make program adjustments to help a particular child’s dysfunction when the bottom line was - the child was being abused at home and we had no information on it.

It has always been my belief that if you are getting substantive movement that others could not get, that you are on the right track. Of course, we want things faster. Sometimes (and it seems only God knows when) - it happens.

Ken

I am not absolutely convinced there are not vision issues that are causing these children difficulty with the physical act of reading.

Yes, we spend so much time “flying by the seat of our pants.” You don’t know how many times I tried to make program adjustments to help a particular child’s dysfunction when the bottom line was - the child was being abused at home and we had no information on it.

It has always been my belief that if you are getting substantive movement that others could not get, that you are on the right track. Of course, we want things faster. Sometimes (and it seems only God knows when) - it happens.

Ken

One thing I try to do with students who have trouble such as you have described is to invite the child to segment the word, then start blending each part, one at a time. When the first two parts are blended, blend them together into one unit, then move to third unit. Try to keep to two units at a time.

Also, teach affixes as units so the child recognizes them on sight. Minimize the load on the memory.

…

Good points. I think the school system should have accountabliity but at the same time recognize students who are not typical learners. Perhaps they should be evaluated using a portfolio system and their learning measured by their own progress instead of trying to compete with typical learners. Pardon the old cliche but - ” It’s like comparing apples to oranges” - They are different, lets measure their leaning that way.