My Boy

Welcome to the party… I hope that you will find this BB as helpful and informative as I have. I have a few suggestions that I would like to make, based on my own experiences here in NJ. First, I personally think that it is a good idea, especially at the beginning of this journey, to private evaluations completed. In your case, I would especialy want to have an independent speech language evaluation in addition to any evluations needed to identify his specific LD. Your pediatrican or your advocate can probaly refer you to the best person or team to do this. I think it is in our best interest as parents to have a least one evaluation completed by someone other then the school district. Next, I would most certainly ask my advocate to come to the meeting with me. A good advocate can play many roles, one invalvuable one is ‘watchdog’ to insure that your parental rights are not violated. I am not sure why you may need a health professional to attend the meeting with you… I personally have never attended a meeting, (either for my own children, as a teacher or as an advocate) in which a health professional was in attendance. Oh… I take that back, I have been to meetings with psychologist, psychatrist and the like who work with the student, but I have never had a meeting with a ‘medical’ doctor. Good luck to you and your son, keep advocating for him and continue to learn all you can about special education in your state and what your child needs.

Hi,

One of the best tools for advocating that I have found is the written word. I have found it neccessary to follow-up most discussions and meetings with letters stating,”As per our conversation you stated etc etc” These are factual letters about what they said and I said, stating my points without emotion.

These letters have helped me to be heard. I have often found that at most meetings things that I say are ignored and they push their own agenda. When I write letters they know that I am serious about being heard and they don’t often ignore them. It is also a safety net that allows for a paper trail that could be used later if neccessary. They know this and are therefore more likely to mind their ‘p’s and ‘q’s.

I really started out being very nice and cooperative. That approach got me nowhere.

Also, I have pretty much found sped to be what I could only call a dysfunctional beauracracy in my district. There isn’t any amount of advocating that would allow some of these people to “get it.” My son is pretty fairly well remediated with things I have done on the outside. Be careful about putting all you hopes for your child’s remediation with the school.

Patty & Linda-
Thank you so much for responding so quickly, I felt like a little kid waiting for Santa to come! I should mention that we are from Wisconsin. We are not greatly supported by family and I think mostly because our boy is so borderline that to some people he just appears to be a brat and/or that we lack good parenting skills. I am going to persue getting the independent testing, having the advocate come with, and the follow-up leters. Thank you for the suggestions. However, what do I do after the independent testing is done? Part of the problem we have is when the school talks about the type of tests being done and the results, it is very overwhelming and confusing. This is why I asked about someone from the health profession going to the IEP. (To put it in better terms I mean the person who gives the independent testing.) I had asked the LD teacher what specific numbers on the testing qualified our boy to be LD and she said there was not a set number. It all seems wishy washy. I think if I were to reconviene the IEP with the results of an independent evaluation they would respond “so what” ………and begin talking circles around me again. To better understand our situation I think I should mention that my husband and I are both very quiet, reserved, and non-confrontational. (I think writing the follow-up letters will help here though). This does not mean we are not willing to do what needs to help our boy though. The school has been very complimentary as to our involvement and the help we provide for our boy. But now I am beginning to wonder if that isn’t a tactic used. I had talked to the LD teacher regarding getting some tutoring services for the summer because I did not think I was qualified to help him and she said the school does not provide those types of services. She said that I would have to look into that independently. Well the costs of these services are enough to make you ill!
In closing, I would like to ask if the fact that the type of LD was not distinguished and the IEP has been set in place, is this normal? Thanks for all the input! And yes, I am still trying to remain focused!

If you post your son’s scores there are many on here that can give you specific expert help.

I have not heard of anyone getting tutoring services paid for.

There are many at home programs that you could do if you could not afford a tutor. It depends on what your child’s needs are. If you gave more specifics like reading, writing, attentional issues, auditory processing, visual processing etc I could give you more specific ideas.

The school should have given you paperwork with your son’s scores on them. If they didn’t, ask for it in writing. My son was diagnosed with a visual motor deficit. It is possible that they just did not see anything that stood out. It is also VERY possible that your son is just a victim (like many others) of whole language based dysteachia. The school may just be using ineffective methods which has nothing to do with your son.

I didn’t have outside testing done. I have mixed feelings about this issue. I think that there are some great testers out there but it can be hit or miss and you might spend alot of money and not get anything better than what the school did. Many insurance plans will pay for testing and if that was the case I would do it in a heartbeat. I have chosen to put my money toward interventions and that has worked for me. I will have my son privately tested once all his deficits are fully remediated. I am waiting until we finish vision therapy which should finish next fall.

Hi-
Our boy was 8 yrs 8 mths at the time of testing.
This is what I can tell you:
Classroom scores : Spelling 34%, Reading Placement 43%, Weekly Reading Tests-69%, Daily math-50%

Teacher Comments-Well behaved, good effort, well liked by peers, has limited confidence as a learner, positive attitude, quiet, seldoms initiates classroom discussion.

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-3rd Addition
Verbal IQ- 91 or 27th %ile
Performance IQ - 95 or 37th %ile
Full Scale IQ - 92 or 30th %ile
(There are some sub-testing scores here but do not know if you need that much detail.)
Comments: He’s in the average range. There is no discrepency between testing verbal vs visual. Weaknesses- Short Term Memory & Verbal Memory tests that require sustained attention.

Woodcock Johnson Tests of Cognitive Abilities
Short Term Memory- SS 83
Numbers Reversed- SS 94
Memory of Words- SS 77

Woodcock Johnson Test III of Achievement
Accademically is average to below.
Cluster tests reveal his strengths are in listening comprehension, oral language, academic knowledge, and oral expression with scores between 93-109.
Weaknesses are in reading comprehension, academic fluency, total achievement, basic writing, broad written language, broad reading, math calculation skills, written expression, academic skills and broad math with scores from 71 to 81.

Goldman-Fristoe Test of Articulation (Speech)
Standard score 95 or 12%ile age equivalency of 5 yrs 6 mths

Test of Examining Expressive Morphology TEEM
Scored 50 out of 54 age equivalency over 8 yrs

Comments: Delays in expressive speech/language skills.

I am not sure how much this will tell you, like I said it seems pretty wishy washy when they were planning to have him removed from Speech when his articulation is at 5 yrs 6 mths. I also am doubting some of the classroom scores. He was getting between 50-70% correct on his weekly spelling words. When the teacher made modifications he was getting 90-100% on the complete list, up until Christmas break. Then he fell back hard down to 50%. So to say he gets 34% in spelling seems not right.

The indendent testing will help you validate what the services the school is providing in the IEP. It will give you the data to go back and say ‘I don’t agree with your testing/results/IEP based on this private evaluation’. It will also help you to understand exactly what your child’s deficits are and in what areas need to be remediated. Here’s what worked for us regarding outside testing. There are really 3 basic areas to test - auditory processing, visual processing and sensory integration/motor. (you could add attention as a 4th, but if you have problem with the 1st 3, more than likely you will have attention kind of symptoms).

We went to a good SLP (who was knowledgable with auditory processing deficits - an SLP who only knows articulation won’t help you much). She did a very in-depth language/auditory processing battery of tests (much more than the school will provide). Cost me $200 - potentially this could be covered under your insurance, depending on your coverage and if the provider works under that plan. In the same office was an OT. She did a motor and visual processing kind of eval. Cost me $100. Now the visual processing was not as indepth as you could get from a DO, and the motor was not as indepth as a deep dive motor/sensory integration test. But it gave us an idea of whether there was potentially a problem and we could then opt to get further testing done. (we were fortunate, my dd only had severe auditory processing deficits).

You then write a letter to the school, requesting an IQ/Cognitive test (WISC) and an achievement test (Woodcock Johnson), and you state your reason for getting this done. If you have the outside testing done and it shows some problems, you include this in your letter as valid reason for your concerns etc.(Schwablearning.com use to have a great sample letter to use for this purpose on their web site). Have they already done this testing? This is what they typically use to ‘qualify’ for services and ‘identify’ for LD. Ask them “what is the discrepancy you use between achievement vs. ability to qualify as an LD?” Typically it’s like 20-22 pt spread. If you still get the run-around, send a letter to your district SPED Director - ours was very helpful, and helped cut thru some of the beauracy with the school.

Now let’s say you have now been ‘successful’ in getting your son identfied and school has agreed to providing some services (reading, writing, math - not sure what problems you are seeing?) Remember - you get what you pay for!! If you really want to help your son, plan to get private remediation/tutoring. Yes, the cost can be a shocker. We’ve spent over $10K in the last several years (if not more -I’m scared to add it up).

P.S. I also recommend that you go to Wrightslaw.com and there is an article on their site that discusses how to understand test scores - very good article. If you have WISC and Woodcock scores(and other tests), you can post to this site and folks here can help you understand the results.

My daughter is currently in 1st grade in a private school but spent her pre-K year in sp ed through the public school. I didn’t have any trouble with the district at that level, but I read a book that prepared me in case.

It’s called “You, Your Child, and Special Education”. It walks you through what to expect at an IEP meeting, what your options are if you disagree on the IEP, and “lines” the school personnel may use to intimidate you. I found it very helpful and should we need it again, I will read it cover to cover again. It’s by Barbara Coyne and available at Amazon; I got it at Barnes & Noble.

One of the MOST important things you will do is the follow up letter. You confirm EVERY tel. conv., hallway conversation, IEP meeting, with a letter.

“Pursuant to our telephone conversation of _______________, my understanding is that you will evaluate Johnny on or before ______________”. ETC.

“Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter”.

It doesn’t give them much “wiggle room”.

They hate me, but they accommodate my daughter. They can “bank” on a letter from me eveytime something does or doesn’t happen.

Just went to a great advocacy conference. Guess what drum they kept beating? YEP, the follow up letter. One of the most important things you’ll ever do.

From what you have listed here, this child qualifies for learning disabilities in one or more of the specific areas. He has over a 20 point spread but you didn’t mention specifically which one. Accomodations or remediation would certainly be beneficial to this student.

Just a few thoughts to add. These reflect my personal experience as a special education teacher and the parent of my own dear boy. We had outside testing which was quite expensive. The school district didn’t want to accept any of it since the neuropsych who did the testing was not at the meeting. The testing did confirm my gut feelings that there were indeed reasons why our son could not read or write. Our pediatrician knew little about learning disabilities. Having an advocate at our meetings did make things happen that had been completely refused when we attended meetings alone. It is good for you to be firm and assertive, but if you become too difficult you may be dismissed as kooks and the reason why your child can’t do whatever. We made sure our son was well behaved because the minute he would become a behavior problem he would be blamed for his lack of skills - not the teaching methods the school offered. I’m sorry to say that my son’s IEPs were not worth the paper they were written on. Goals and objectives that were never met because the teachers were not trained or experienced in teaching him to read or write. Your son may qualify for services, but who is delivering them and how much training and experience do they have? What programs are they using and with what regularity? I AM proud to tell you our now 15 year old son is doing well and our family is well. We have had to go it alone, with a few kind people along the way. The people at ldonline have been my best support and a knowledgable and supportive shoulder when I have needed one.

This is where I begin to get confused! In just speaking directly about the LD, this was all I was told. When I met with the school psychologist regarding the test scores, he said that it was not clear as to what type of LD he has and that sometimes you never will. Is this what you mean by “specific area”? Also, he has already began sitting in a classroom consisting of 4-5 other children for reading, writing, and math, at his level. The time is approx 3 hrs a day everyday (excluding field trips and other social activities, etc.) while his regular class is doing the same type of work. He has all other subjects with his regular class (excluding Speech which is 2 days a week for 20 minutes). Before the IEP, I had gone in and observed the LD class in progress. The teacher, I have to say, seems quite extrordinary with the kids, and they like her a great deal. I was very impressed with the detail of her goals and bench marks as well as her progress report that was sent home last week. However, it appears that I may not be asking some of the right questions, her educational background and the name of the program she is using etc.. It also seems that in order for him to benefit from this program we should know what type of LD we are dealing with. Hmm. I want to thank all of you out there that have responded to me. It warms the heart!!

1. You can absolutely refuse to have him discharged from speech. If you say no, they have to take you to mediation to take him out of speech and they rarely do that. Just politely say, “we refuse to have him discharged from speech,” and of course follow this up with a letter.

2. It helps to have to subtest scores and it also might help if you announce in your line that you need help reading test scores to get the attention of the experts. This isn’t my area but there are some who are really good at this.

3. Memory issues stood out for me. DEA has had some success remediating her child’s memory issues. I would also take her advice on outside testing as it is very good.

4. You may also want to start with a very good reading program. I would be interested to know what type of program they are using. He needs a program that will help him learn to blend and segment and develop good phonemic awareness. I used a book called reading reflex to teach my son to read. It worked when all the school’s efforts failed.

I have 2 children with LD(9 year old with dyslexia,CAPD,and 7 year old with ADD/CAPD) and I WRITE A LETTER FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!! I have learned alot in the last couple of years(and alot of it has been from this board).I know that when it comes to my children, I have to be their #1 advocate because if you don’t look out for them , no one else will!!! The school does not inform you of nothing because they don’t want you to know anything!!!! And I never go to a IEP alone!!(I did that once and that was a disaster) Well, Good Luck To Ya……….

Dear Trying,

Just a couple of comments to add to those already mentioned. Your son’s specific areas of LD are those where the discrepancy between IQ and achievement are over a certain amount (states differ on the number, ours is 15 points, some require 22 points). So for example, with a full scale IQ score of 92 with a discrepancy requirement of 15 points, any area under a score of 77 would be an LD. There are several areas of LD, basic reading , reading comprehension, math calculation, math reasoning, writing, listening comprehension, and oral expression (off the top of my head…these may not be the exact names). If you look at the scores, his specific LD’s will be obvious. He should have at least one goal sheet for each deficit area.

Do find out what reading program/materials this teacher uses and come back here and get some feedback. Many special ed. teachers are not trained in effective remeidation methods, believe it or not. (Oh, and a pediatrician is about the last person I’d approach about learning problems. Stick with them for health issues.)

Janis