I had a frustrating meeting with the CST yesterday about getting my 10 year old third grade dd tested.
To me, there are obviously some processing issues going on with her (auditory and visual), and there may also be some ADD at work. However, the CST said that even though they “would test her tomorrow”, they couldn’t get her special ed because she is still in ESL. The implication being that we shouldn’t test her now. They said they have to do the “legal” thing. She has been in this country for 2 years and 2 months, and all vestiges of her native language are gone. My older (dyslexic) daughter had already tested out of ESL during the same time interval (mid first grade to mid third grade), so they tested her and she’s in sp. ed.
The CST team said that sometimes it takes 3 -5 years for someone to become sufficiently fluent, and I know that at some level that is true. But for our purposes, that seems excessive. I think they are thinking about ESL kids that go home and speak their native language, rather than my dd, who hasn’t heard a word of Bulgarian in almost 2 years. English is her only language at this point. What I am worried about is that there is a vicious circle going on here, in that her processing issues are probably slowing down her exit from ESL, and her presence in ESL is keeping her from getting sp. ed. help.
I gave them an example, where I was helping dd with her math homework, and I said “If Maggie is 5 and Lucy is 2 years older, how old is Lucy?”, to which she correctly replied 7. Then I said, “OK then, if Lucy is 7 and is 2 years older than Maggie, how old is Maggie?” (which had been the original question I was helping her with). Blank stare followed by distressed look on face followed by crying and crumpling up homework paper.
I told the CST that this is NOT an ESL issue, as these words and concepts are all things that she is intimately familiar with…..but they said, “yes it is, or could be.” (Spoken with an irritating, condescending smile). Present were the educational consultant, SW, and SLP. Anyone care to agree or disagree with the “experts”?
Where we left it is that I would speak with the ESL teacher (who was not present) and then go from there.
If I wait for her to test out of ESL, I’m afraid we’ll lose more valuable time, so I am thinking of having her tested independently, and having an expert say that she has processing issues apart from any ESL-related influences. Does anyone think that might work, or have any other ideas? Or should I just go ahead and have her tested by the school anyway, and see what happens, even if they don’t give her sp. ed., so that I have something to work with, and then I can always have her independently evaluated if I need to? Any opinions on where I stand legally? (By the way, the opinion of the principal, whom I chatted with on my way out, is that the CST was toeing the company line, and I should hang in there, God bless him).
Does anyone know whether CAPD can be effectively identified under these circumstances? I think this may be one of her issues.
Thanks,
dab-nj
all the things you have mentioned will have an impact of her
I have a strong feeling if you get a handle on her Attention you will see a significant improvement in her processing abilities of English and her native language…There is nothing wrong with using your second language with your child. It used to be that the professionals would recommend speaking one language only but research has shown that it is good to use both languages in the long run…
It is very difficult to tease CAPD and ADD apart. But I can tell you from professional and personal experience that ADD has a huge impact on CAPD. this is what I learned through the school of hard knocks..
My daughter and I both have significant auditory processing issues as we have a genetic hearing impairment. I always thought her auditory processing issues were impacting her attention as she was expending so much energy to hear and process sounds. So we used an auditory trainer in class and this hid her ADD until about 3rd grade…Her 3rd grade teacher said…that she just wasn’t paying attention and I kept saying…you just don’t get it…you don’t know how hard a person with a hearing impairment or (CAPD for that matter) works to process language…but when you get tired you check out and start daydreaming…But she said…”I know what you mean but she isn’t paying attention a lot of the time during class, she is a well behaved child but she is daydreaming…I was in denial…I didn’t want to hear any part of what she was saying…and ironically this teacher was the best teacher my daughter had…she made gains in her classroom but things went down hill from there…
The teachers kept their condescending attitude..but they had a point…she wasn’t paying attention and the longer I kept denying the attention piece the more she fell further and further behind…..by 5th grade She was giving up, she was overwhelmed, depressed, and in her own little world…
I am embarrased to say that it took me years to get my head out of the sand.and it wasn’t until I was in college and I was immersed in my speech pathology program and the professor was talking about CAPD and ADD and how they are intertwined… that the light bulbs started going off in my head…I realized that the missing piece for my daughter was ADD. I talked with the school team and the psychologist disagreed…she said…”Your daughter just isn’t using the visual strategies you have learned to focus and cope with your hearing loss…but when you looked at the decline in processing speeds from kindergarten to 5th grade you could defintely see a pattern of ADD…But the school district didn’t help me with her remediatino…..I had to do it on my own…
I started with the pediatrician and he made a referral to another pediatrician who specialized in kids with ADD. When he saw some of her records he thought…oh…her problems are related to her CAPD and hearing impairment and he refused to see her…Again…I argued and said…please see her…I had to wait 6 months before we got in to see him. By then I had a whole arsenal of tests that we had done privately…and when he looked at her records in detail..and saw the low processing speeds, the inattentive behaviors, he did his own assessment. After he was done…he looked at me and said…”I owe you an apology..” It isn’t just her hearing loss, it is a co-morbidity between the two, ADD and the hearing impairment…. Children with a double deficit like this are the hardest to remediate as well…BINGO!!! I felt vindicated… by this point we had spent $1,000’s of dollars on remediation, she was making slow progress, we were split between half school and homeschooling at the learning center 50 miiles away 4 hours a day…But it wasn’t until we started Concerta that we started to see her make gains…
With Concerta, it was like a floodgate opened…But my heart really broke when my daughter looked at me and said… “Mommy, is this what it feels like when you can concentrate and focus? Things make more sense now…I know what it feels like to focus…”
Our daughter didn’t make progress because of her ADD, she still has CAPD but now with medication she is able to deal with just the hearing impairment and is able to focus and attend and the teachers now say she is a good student…she is focused and puts forth her best efforts…
Learn from my mistakes….school districts employees are bound and gagged to toe the company line…I am a school district employee I know how far I can push the envelope….and I have been chewed out several times by other employees because I advocated for the child best interests and got them into HOT water…..
Re: Frustrated with CST
I agree about treating ADD if present. My kiddo, also adopted, and came home with frank kwashiorkor, had both CAPD and ADD plus sleep apnea from enlarged tonsils/adenoids, plus visual processing issues - she couldn’t read by moving her eyes; she had to move her whole head. All these things are individually treatable, however.
Re: Frustrated with CST
Shirin,
My son, who has been through vision therapy, still has issues with moving his head rather than his eyes. I was wondering how you resolved this problem.
Beth
Yes, CAPD can be effectively identified under these circumstances. It needs an audiologist with a soundproofed booth, and the ability to change the signal to noise ratio (ask ahead of time), although some instruments are used by speech therapists (and that’s probably what the school had in mind.)
It sounds like your kiddo’s problem in the above example is with sequencing, memory, and the vocabulary of math. The first time around you were doing addition. The second time around, you were doing subtraction. Subtraction is harder. The language you used was also a LOT more complex the second time around.
If you are going to teach math, I would do so using manipulatives, and also force her to read a 100 chart backwards and forwards until it becomes easy, and then recite it back and forth from memory. You also need to do that counting forwards and backwards by 2s, 5s, and 10s. (She obviously has trouble counting backwards from 7.) Don’t bother pushing math facts before she has mastered this, or you will simply have a innumerate on your hands.
If you are going to teach the language of mathematics you need to use shorter sentences, because she clearly doesn’t have the auditory memory to keep your long sentence in memory. (How long a string of random numbers can she remember? Seven numbers forward and 3 backwards is normal. That’s why telephone numbers are the length they are. Five to 9 numbers forward represent the bottom and top limits of normal. You asked her to remember two numbers backward, and I will bet that she can’t remember more than 3 numbers forward and 1 number back. May I recommend Fast Forward “http://www.scilearn.com/” for the memory and language issues? You’ll still have to teach her to do math, but it will be a lot easier with a bit more working memory.