Dyslexia and math

My son is the same way. Part of the problem is he’s dyslexic and dysgraphic. In math, if something get’s out of line, he’s all messed up. Try using graph paper for calculations…it keeps things lined up. The other problem is my son can’t always read what he’s written, so values change throughout the problem. He needs to work on being neater, and trying not to do things so quickly. We’ve also had a hard time getting him to write out all the steps (since the writing is hard, he tries to do things in his head). Continual reminding is what has helped us. My son is up to a B in math now. That may not sound great for a kid who qualified for TAG in mathematics, but it’s great compared to the past few years. He’s in 8th grade now. I’ve been told geometry may actually be easier for him next year.

Good luck,

Kay

Hi Connie,
That sounds like my son. He seems to get the concepts of math really quickly, but loses it all in simple calculation (reverses numbers, mixes them up, counts too many or adds instead of subtract, etc…) and is having an extremely difficult time memorizing his multiplication tables.

Basically, we go over multiplication daily, use graph paper to help him stay lined up, and another thing is you can have him use highlighters for various operations. For example, if the problems are addition and subtraction, he can use a yellow highlighter to highlight the addition sign and a green highlighter for subtraction, prior to working out the problems.

My son understood the higher level concepts but couldn’t do calculations. You really have to go back to the beginning and make sure they can count first by ones then twos then threes backward and forward. They should be physically counting somthing too, like pennies, or using a numbers chart. They should be able to do this without any errors. These kids can’t just memorize the times table until they have these number concepts straight.

My son is very uneven in his math abilities. I really think once we get this fully sorted out it will be an area of strength. He actually loves math.

I found interactive metronome to be very good for this issue. Audiblox is also good for this problem.

I’ve done a bit of reading on this topic because my dyslexic son also has math issues. One interesting study I read compared those with LD in math only to those LD in math and reading. Those LD in both math and reading had better visual spatial and visual perceptual skills but were weaker in working memory. This is my son!!!

I also have read that many children who have both math and reading LD’s in actuality have sequencing deficits—which affects both areas. This doesn’t appear to be the case with my son—we have done a lot of work with sequencing and he can skip count by any number now.

Also, visualization can be an issue for both reading and math. And there are many language based difficulties that affect both math and reading.

Looking under math ld under LD-in depth. There are some good articles.

Beth

Often it’s a struggle with keeping track of which symbols mean what (sound like reading?). Also, there are often gaps in the knowledge so that whle the concept makes sense by itself, with no complications, when you put it on a test and you have to decide which of the many concepts you’ve been learning to use, it gets confused.
What works is hte same as for reading too — lots of visual & kinesthetic connections, and lots of practice to automaticity. Math classes too often go too fast to allow that — and the people who can memorize the procedures look fine on those tests… then have trouble later.
What are some of his favorite types of mistakes? Another tack to take is to analyze them and take preventive steps. HIghlighting the steps in multiple step problems before you begin, or highlighting the operation sign if you have the habit of adding wehre you meant to multiply are a couple.

This I understand well because I live it and see it in my son. It has a lot to do with visual processing and memory. My son and I are very good at concepts but remembering numbers, names, letters, written words, formulas, dates… even faces are a problem… retaining visual information long enough to make use of it is challenging. Understanding the concepts and being good at mental calculations has nothing to do with being able to put it on paper. When we do homework we can, if highly motivated, take time to keep from making mistakes. Tests don’t give enough time for those of us who have visual processing and memory issues. Personally, I refused to write out the math problems because it interfered with my accuracy. I was even able to show the teacher how I did the math in my head but he wouldn’t accept my homework without the work written out. That was the year I quit school. I hear there are ways of teaching people to improve visual memory.. holding images in their head. I don’t know much about it but I will pick the brain of my friend who does.

I’d be interested in learning what you find out about ways of keeping visual images in your head. First of all, there’s the problem of visualizing the image. Then there’s the problem of keeping it, particularly if a distraction intervenes. Any methods for learning to visualize letters and numbers or people’s faces?
Are there any programs that teach this?

Thanks to you and everyone else for the good suggestions. In answer to your question, his current favorite mistake is with adding or subtracting positive numbers. We’ve practiced a lot, and he seems to get it. Then, he takes a test and adds when he’s supposed to subtract or visa versa. He’s also great at figuring out the problem and then forgetting to put the negative sign in front of the number. On a recent test he figured out a shortcut for multiplying binomials and trinomials. Unfortunately, he figured it out correctly but then added instead of multiplied. Believe me, you can get a lot wrong on a math test doing that!

I’m not sure if it’s sequencing or memory. With addition and subtraction he was actually quick. But now, with multiplication I think his memory is overwhelmed, although I could be wrong…

I was suppose to get recent test results from UPS yesterday and missed them :-( So Monday they’ll arrive and maybe there will be information about sequencing.

Anything with patterns and structure is usually easy for my son to understand. But try to retrieve something from memory and that’s a whole different ball game! Even after he’s learned it, he forgets it. Sort of like a memory inconsistency.

And yet he really likes math. The other day we were trying to finish a report that he was working on (a local historical report for which one of his topics was the first restaurant in our area - which is still in business). We visited it, I had him take notes and one of the questions was that he describe the place. Well, I asked him to describe the place. He said nothing. I then said, “Well, is it bright, dark, large, small, busy….?” And he replied that it’s a rectangular prism and the sign is a rectangle…and that’s all he said!

I do need to work with him on skip counting. I think that might be a good way to help with this.

It sounds like your son might benefit from highlighting (with different colors) the operations prior to working out the problems.

Another idea, if he has trouble sometimes quickly remembering mathematical details (or whatever he’s working on), you could have him try making notes at the top of his paper so when he’s quickly working on the problems he can check to make sure he’s doing the work correctly.

An example of this is when my son was having difficulty remembering letter/number directionality, I’d have him copy out the letters and numbers that he’d forget at the top corner of his page (like b,d). This seemed to help. Although, it also helped that he could refer to number lines and alphabet letters in the classroom! But having something to refer to immediately at eye level seemed to help somewhat.

Well, Jami has been doing okay in Math. She still uses her fingers for counting (I know adults who still do - so I don’t push it), but she does it “under the table” b/c she’s embarrassed. She’s doing “okay” in fractions, but we have spent a ton of $$ on the reading problems and I’m afraid the math is going to suffer for it. Saddest part is she believes she’s “really good” in math. Recently when she was having trouble she said, “Gosh, mom, it sure is good that I’m really good in math, b/c this is really hard”. I didn’t have the hear to tell her she was LD in math too and actually testing lower in math than reading now.

We also re-learn our multiplicaton tables every summer (or at least review them). We play “addition bingo” still (mostly in the Summer). My fear is that there is a “big, bad Math Monster” awaiting us in MS and of course, my “math phobia” doesn’t help.

Oh and no good news here - b/c she always has spatial deficits geometry is not going to be any fun either (I HATED it)

I know Beth-FL will have some really good ideas for home tutoring in Math, but I don’t have the patience to teach my daughter (sometimes I feel guilty about that TOO).

I guess we will just take the “wait and see” approach and if it starts “smouldering” we’ll jump on it before it becomes a blaze.

I thought my daughter had “mastered” addition way back in 1st grade b/c we weren’t having any trouble using additon flash cards. (I’m thinking, Thank Goodness, we have something in our favor)

Instead of knowing the answer she HAD FIGURED OUT that the small # in the top right hand corner was 1 digit higher or lower than the answer (and also corresponded with the reverse side of the card - I guess it was how the creator had put them in sequence??) and she would guess 1 answer and it was wrong she’d KNOW the other answer.

After a LONG time I got suspicious. (she’s brighter than me :-) ) I finally one day, placed my finger over the “little #” in the top right hand corner. She DIDN’T HAVE A CLUE to the answer. She kept telling me to “hold the card differently” or “I can’t see it”, hoping I would move my finger.

I finally called her on it and she got FURIOUS! I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. Now I laugh. I can laugh at a lot more NOW than I used to - part of it due to this bb.

I think that different skills affect different areas of math.

When we did the visual perception exercises, charting and geometry type work was remediated.

Sequencing (for us at least) seems to be the root cause of the difficulty with multiplication. We are still working on skip counting the 6s 7s and 8s. He has the rest down but it was not easy.

I think the problem he had with reading those signs might have been visual perception but the task itself was sequencing. ( He used to constantly read plus as minus, especially when there were mixed computation on a page )

I think the exercises that we have done to improve visual processing speed and visualization of symbols has helped all over. He just can think quicker and is a more flexible thinker. He has developed the most amazing ability to add 3 digit numbers with regrouping in his head. I think he sees those symbols in his head and can manipulate them quickly. He can do it better in his head than on the page.
The last one was partly related to vision builder and other vision therapy exercises. Vision builder definitely addressed the speed issue.

Leah,

What about finding a tutor who would be willing to use some of those great ideas Beth has? You might even be able to find a high school kid who’d love making some extra money, and yet be able to tutor at a relatively inexpensive rate.

I have a memory which is *excellent* with patterns, OK with anything connected, and dead hopeless with disconnected facts.

This gives me the classic absent-minded professor syndrome — ask me about a geometry theorem that I haven’t looked at since high school, murfle-murfle years ago, and it pops right into the head — patterns, you see. Ask me the date of the Norman conquest, and that’s connected with so many interesting things about language and a silly book, and I have it. Ask me to conjugate any French verb or most Latin or Spanish (even if I can’t speak those two), and I’ve got it — patterns, patterns.
Ask me my new telephone number and I have to think about it for several seconds; ask me what date it is and I’m really not sure; ask me who the Secretary of State is and I say Who? — these are disconnected facts and do not stick. My “new” cell phone number kept reversing itself for four months.

What to do about it?
First, *build* patterns and connections. Recite math facts in a rhythm over and over until the table is a pattern in the brain. Recite Spanish verbs in the classic pattern (1-2-3 sing, 1-2-3 plural, not the “easy” shortened version in many books now), again with rhythm. When trying to learn history and geography, *don’t* just go over the same meaningless verbal strings; read more about the topics in books and encyclopedias, look at maps and pictures, discuss trips, visit living history shows, make *connections* — I have done just this with a Grade 6 student, and his grade improved notably after only two one-hour sessions.

Second, revel in it. So maybe you don’t know the presidents of the US, but you can do square roots in your head. There are compensations.

I am so glad to hear you spotted this and worked on it.

You would not believe the number of students I’ve had, in and out of school, who are in this same boat. Quick tricks and no understanding, not just in math but in every field. Some self-defeating quick tricks actually taught by the teachers.

The classic one I often bring up was a kid with Kleinfelter’s Syndrome age 12 who, I was told, had mastered addition and subtraction and was working on the times tables, where he had mastered the three times. I started reviewing subtraction, which he could not do, backed up to addition, which he could get an “answer” for, if he had two free hands and a ruler, but had no concept of what it meant in any other circumstance, backed up to the addition tables which he had no clue of, backed up to basic number sense — and found that he could not count accurately past six.
Tell me, how do you do five plus four, or three times three, not to mention the rest he had “mastered”, if you can’t count past six? Everything he had done for the last several years in school was a joke or a lie.

And to him “six” sounded like “sex” and he knew that was a dirty word he wasn’t allowed to use so he shut down …

I had gotten his reading very much improved,and soon after I had finally localized what was going on with his math the school board suddenly found a new placement for him and I lost touch — he probably still can’t add two plus two.

Watch out for this kind of thing and nip it in the bud — you’ll be glad you did.

LMB program “Seeing Stars” is supposed to help with symbol imagery, and “Visualizing and Verbalizing” is supposed to help with concept imagery. Haven’t tried them myself.
dab-nj