Hi,
My son is presenting a “reading puzzle” currently, and I need to hear some opinions on what I see and what I plan because, though I’m well on this side of panic, I am concerned about doing the right thing.
The puzzle: He is reading books routinely for pleasure that are above grade level, passed a boating course exam, his teachers have recommended him for regular ed in language arts (has been 2 years, half time SLD), BUT, a recent partial assessment shows gr. 4.2 W-J reading comprehension and Gr. 4 on a test called the Alberta something or other (can’t recall—but also for comprehension). Since he’s going into gr. 5, I’d like these scores to be higher. He gets B+ marks in his other regular ed courses with few apparent accommodations.
Probable factors: 1. Some unresolved phonological/decoding issues? (The assessor didn’t get to the word id. and word attack — likely because she found a whopping 28 point discrepancy between his processing speed score and his nonverball IQ score.) 2. Some working memory issues. (When he was last assessed with the WRAML, he had better story comprehension 10 minutes after reading a story than he did immediately after, reflecting his need for processing time.)
My plan: Have administered the PG tests (am trained but not as vastly experienced as some on these boards), finding scores of 100% for segmenting and blending, 7/10 for auditory processing (He has CAPD—has had FFWD) and 86% for phonic knowledge. He needs Chapter 4 (blue level work) with some multisyllable, but needs lots of unfamiliar words to chew on because on the Slosson and the Alberta word identification tests he scores at Gr. 7 point something. We are starting tomorrow — 3x a week.
Also, we are soon starting Interactive Metronome, in which I’m currently training. (This should help with processing speed.)
Reading fluency seems okay, but I do not have a test and have misplaced my Read Naturally booklet (a sampler I wrote away for—did not purchase).
Can anyone give me pointers on an informal test?
Over the summer I also plan to do Visualizing and Verbalizing with him because, although he claims to visualize, I suspect that strengthening his skills in this area will help counteract the memory issue, which, if there is a root cause that can be identified in LD, would get my vote.
I’m a little scared because he will get accommodations in Gr. 5 but no resource room support. (He will be in the SLD room for math only.) Also, I was unable to hear recommendations from the “horse’s mouth” in the recent IPRC meeting because our elementary teachers are on work to rule and not attending IPRC meetings.
He is motivated to do whatever because he would like to be mainstreamed for Language Arts. His math tutor (who is also a former teacher of his) says she feels he can handle it; her one worry is whether he will be able to focus and concentrate in a large class. (CAPD can look like ADD.)
I am thinking PACE/BrainSkills might be a follow-up for next Spring.
I know from reading these boards that you can do V & V without training, but can anyone who’s done it give an opinion on it? (Lindamood is finally coming to Canada, in Vancouver in the summer, about 3000 miles from where I am but I’ve always wanted to visit.)
Thanks in advance for your feedback. (Sorry this is so long.)
Re: Need help interpreting
Thanks, I’ll check out the website. It seems to me you subtract errors from the total # of words read to get the score. The placement booklet I had gave an indication of what is normal for his age —that’s the part I need, as well as appropriately leveled text, which I now know I can get from their website (thanks to you). Microsoft Word’s Tools function also lets you get set up for a Flesch-Kincaid measure of reading level, but I’ve heard it’s inaccurate, though whether it assesses high or low or by how much I don’t know.
I forgot to mention that I am a teacher (H.S. Special Ed. and English) so I am fairly comfortable with the idea of V and V even after having read most of the book. I just hate the idea of colouring pictures though, despite the therapeutic benefits, so I may spring for the total package ($100USD), which includes coloured pictures, felt, transparencies (which I don’t need) etc. I will check out Idea Chain, though, to see if it can match the $100 price.
Also, upon re-reading my post, I notice that I implied that I think memory issues are the root cause of LDs, which is not so; I think they may well be a huge contributing cause of my particular son’s LDs.
Re: Need help interpreting
Tonight I’ll look in the Read Naturally documentation and post the wpm levels for each grade. Ideachain is more in the $200 range (I forget exactly)—so you’d be better off with V/V. I totally agree about the coloring bit—it was one of the reasons that factored into my decision to not do V/V with my ds and send him to the LMB center instead. Pretty expensive decision and I still question the value.
Perhaps I’m wrong, but didn’t you once post on Sound Reading Solutions? I’ve been patiently waiting—over ten days—to get the teen demo CD to see whether to do this over summer with soon to be 13 y.o. ds. If I am right, could you post a bit about your experience and who this seems to benefit. (Despite CAPD—largely remediated through FFW—Ds decodes fine but his reading speed is slow. He also has problems staying on track with what people are saying in class discussions. His reading comprehension seems okay although vocab remains weak. I I think he would have a fair amount of difficulty with an exercise on the SRS test that consists of reading sentences and determining which word does not fit. I was thinking of perhaps having him do SRS this summer, followed by Read Naturally to bring up the speed.)
WPM
According to Read Naturally booklet, median words correct per minute data for grades 2-5 are:
Grade Percentile Fall WCPM Winter WCPM Spring WCPM
2 75 82 106 124
50 53 78 94
25 23 46 65
3 75 107 123 142
50 79 93 114
25 65 70 87
4 75 125 133 143
50 99 112 118
25 72 89 92
5 75 126 143 151
50 105 118 128
25 77 93 100
For grades above 5, they give only the50th percentile for upper grades of 125 to 150 WCPM.
In case you need it, it says to count as errors:
Mispronunciations and dropped endings
Out of sequence/transpositions (count as two errors)
Omissions
Words supplied by teacher
Substitutions with Synonyms
Repeated Errors
Don’t count as errors:
Mispronunciationdue to dialect and speech problems
Repititions
Insertions
Self-corrections
Hope this helps.
Re: SRS
Thanks, I’d appreciate the grade placements.
As for SRS, it was someone else. I tried to order the adolescent program demo at this time last year to check out for my class but did not get a response to my phone call or e-mail, so I did not persist. (I use PG.)
There has been a debate about the merits of it vs. PG on the ReadNow board; I can’t recall details, but the PGers who’ve reviewed it favour PG. It might represent a good solution for an adolescent, however.
The class I ended up with mainly consisted of behavioural students, 3/4 of whom could read fine, just needed lots more practice and fluency work. A CD program for the minority might have been a godsend in that situation.
By all reports, Read Naturally will help with fluency. I may consider it for my son for the Fall if needed.
Jan
Re: Need help interpreting
CAPD can also be co-morbid with ADD as well so don’t rule that out. I always thought my daughters CAPD was the cause of her LD’s but it was co-morbidity between the ADD/CAPD that created the biggest problem. The biggest clue for ADD was a steady decline in processing speed from 122 to the low 70’s over a 5 year period and she too had low comprehension scores. I am trained in LMB programs and they helped me teach her to read and have comprehension. I also use Read Naturally and Great Leaps with kids who have both CAPD and ADD.
where are you again?
If you’re 3000 miles from Vancouver, are you anywhere near me? I’m just west of Montreal.
I’d be happy to help with anything I have, although I work with tried-and-true old stuff rather than new brand-name programs.
Re: fluency. You can go on the Read Naturally website and pull down sample pages for each grade level. As it turns out these are exactly the samples they use for placing kids, but you don’t get this information until you run the CD, which is non-returnable once you’ve opened the package. (Makes it very difficult for a parent to place their child—you have to guess what level and if you’re wrong you have to order another CD.) On the CD placement program, it times them reading for one minute, adjusted for mistakes, which you have to count. Using the website sample pages, you can just time your child reading for one minute and count the number of words to get the wpm (word count is noted on the sample page)—I’m not sure how mistakes adjust that number, but you would get a rough idea.
Re: V/V on the homeschooling board and reading board, there are threads on V/V vs. ideachain (www.mindprime.com). The latter is more expensive, but it includes all materials and is scripted. I haven’t used it, but personally felt a little vague about implementing V/V after reading the book. I ended up with ds at LMB and in retrospect think I would have been far better off using a parently friendly package like Idea Chain, which has scripted lessons and all materials included. Shay seems to think that as a parent I could have done at least as good a job as the LMB center with V/V. Still, if I had to do it over, I think I would go for the security blanket offered by Idea Chain. (Their website says it will give your money back if not satisfied, so you could always order it and check it out first.)