I was so stunned and left speechless by our first meeting with the school psychologist/IEP group that I wasn’t even capable of putting it down in a Bulletin post until now, 17 days later.
First– who is a school psychologist/psychiatrist and what credentials do they need? Ours said she has grandchildren, and is almost 60 years old, and this is her first year with this school. She referenced her own private practice in talking about my child. What is a 60 year old woman doing going into a school where the backlog of LD testing has her behind 4 months (her words)? Lastly, the IST teacher said this woman is wonderful compared to last year’s terrible one…holy cow.
The Meeting– The psychologist talked the entire time (over an hour), as opposed to asking us questions about our child (we thought it was a fact finding meeting). And she said she had really spent the day being a ‘detective’ finding out things about our child (instead of asking the parents). She spent most of the meeting trying to talk us out of IDEA/504 testing at all(which I think is against the law). She observed my daughter that very day, in class for less than an hour, observed her at lunch and for a few minutes at recess and had a personal 15 minute discussion with her. Based on that, she decided that if we really wanted testing, we had better be careful what we wished for, because she was pretty sure my child would come up ” emotionally disturbed”, and ” then what would you do?????” (in your head hear a sing-songy ” and then what would you do???” ) Definitively, my child is not emotionally disturbed. She has ADD and great difficulty with too much homework, can’t finish tests and doesn’t like to write…classic ADD.
Here are some of the school psychologist’s “assumptions” (do you all know that ‘assume’ makes an “ass of u and me”…please forgive the foul language but it’s so appropriate in this woman’s case):
1. My child reacted very badly to Concerta and got headaches with adderal.
Psychologist’s assumption: She probably doesn’t have ADD because if she did her brain chemistry would not cause her to react that way. (I know…that was an especially absurd statement)
2. My child was the last to leave the lunchroom.
Psychologist’s assumption: Has eating disorder, is depressed, is lethargic and clearing all those problems up will make her do her homework!
Reality: She is overweight (as are both her parents so the woman criticizing food choices in this meeting, talking to two parents with weight issues was for her like shooting fish in a barrel…she knew we wouldn’t fight back to get to the real issues of learning and ADD). That particular day, my child didn’t have enough money to buy Desani water ( her favorite) so she bought chocolate milk AND had ice cream. She used the delay excuse that her ice cream was hard so she wouldn’t have to go outside and walk because she didn’t have a coat and it was cold! (and yes she’s lazy… and that’s what they make them do at recess…lunch is at 10:25 by the way)
Lastly, the psychologist said two girls snubbed her. I asked my child about this and she said that didn’t happen at all. As you all know who have ADD/ADHD kids, ANY social slight by ANYONE is reported and whined about ad nauseum, so if she says two girls didn’t snub her I believe her. She actually said they turned to go inside…the psychologist said they did a “body language turn” to exclude Mary Lynn. There’s those assumptions again.
3. My child was very blunt and open with the psychologist when they had a discussion and so the psychologist took what my child said to be gospel. (and my child said she couldn’t stand the woman and wondered what my opinion was! )
Psychologist’s assumption: She is very depressed, she loves junk food, cake, chips and candy and there isn’t fruit anywhere in either of her homes (we are divorced very amicably). Oh yeah…she forgot that bowl of apples and bananas on the dining room table. She hates her old school, (yet we just made a special trip to that very school to run in and hug old teachers and say hi.)
THE BIG PROBLEM. ADD isn’t the problem, our child has simply manipulated us for six years about homework. She really can do it by herself, she just doesn’t want to and if she just loses weight it will all go away. And she said the chances are very good she would not be covered under Section 504.
Sounds like a fun first meeting, eh? We are taking steps to have her evaluated privately, and we are writing another letter to request testing, even though they are about 3 weeks away from the original 60 day timeline. If this sounds like a nightmare, I assure you it feels that way. Our pediatrician who is a tremendous advocate, says it’s nice she cares so much about what my child eats, but that has nothing to do with the testing they have to do by law because we requested it, back in September! She also said she isn’t worried about the tests being skewed by this psychologist, because grade level and IQ tests can’t be muddied by a crazy psychologist.
During the meeting I did firmly maintain I think my child has mild Dyslexia and the writing disorder because it kills her to put a sentence down on paper. (her homeroom teacher who has been the biggest homework nightmare disagreed with me) Even the school counselor quietly advocated testing and the pyschologist shot her down. All the teachers and others in the room were silent during this diatribe. We think they were all stunned too.
How do I check out this psychologist/psychiatrist? Can I find complaints against her? Do we pay the $2000 to have her LD tested privately? Do we give up on school? She is in 6th grade…if they threaten me one more time that 7th grade is going to be much worse I don’t know what I will do. Do I pay $8000 a year for an LD private school? Do I take an advocate to the next meeting and where do I get one?
My opinion is she is a solid B+ A- student if we work hard keeping her on task. She is right now, with all this mess, a C student, with at least one A for this last quarter (in creative writing of all things…extraordinary teacher). I am not willing to settle for a C student with a child who is as bright as she is. She was a confident, self assured preschooler who had her knees knocked out from under her socially and scholastically because she couldn’t write her name or get things down on paper. But every teacher has said she is bright. This school is supposed to be much better, and they plow ahead for their own testing scores for the masses and have all their gifted programs up and running, but they are leaving mine behind and I am furious but feel helpless. I am praying our private psychologist will sort all this out for us.
Thank you very much for listening. :)
Re: Disasterous first meeting & threats of no 504 covera
Well- I waded through it and I am appalled. That person should be disciplined by someone.
1. You have the right to testing within 60 days of the meeting date. If she is backlogged that is tough. They are allowed to send out a notice of delay and you will likely get one.
2. I guess I might think about disagreeing with your pediatrician- though she is right about your rights. It certainly is possible for a psyche to mess up the testing. They just have to do it wrong and there are lots of opportunities. I am not sure I would trust this woman to water my plants, much less test my child. You have the right to an independent educational evaluation at the school’s expense if you disagree with their findings. i think you can request one regardless though. It is spelled out in your copy of the parental rights- and someone on the parenting ld board will likely jump in and tell you all about it. You can also check sites like wrightslaw.
3. School Psyches are very well trained usually- at least masters level and most of the ones I know are doctorates. They are supposed to- as part of their credentialing- have some knowledge of education and learning- beyond the clinical sorts of knowledge all psyches have to have. I am so sorry that you have run into such a crackpot. She sounds dangerous.
Robin
Re: Disasterous first meeting & threats of no 504 covera
Audrey,what a hoot! Listen,years from now your likely going to sit down and laugh about this meeting.
1.If she is a school psychologist,she couldn’t classify your child emotionally disturbed,the team would have to get the input of a psychiatrist. This is true in my state anyway. Check on your state board rules. Now you could handle the little ol lady one of two ways.
A. You can state in a very registered letter to the director of special education, telling them how very concerned you were in regards to this meeting.That now that these things were discussed as possible disabilities,emotionally disturbed is very much a defined disability in IDEA!, that you recieve a more qualified psychologist to do the eval,or you will find one privately at districts expense.
B.Under child find in IDEA they must identify your child. To throw these very serious diagnosis’ out there as a possiblity,she has really buried herself good. If this is a possibility at all she is obligated to identify her under,IDEA. Going to bet that the director of sped might not very happy with all that emotionally disturbed talk going on.The more drastic and restrictive the ed placement, the more costly to them. ( now he or she could require you to allow the district to do an evaluation before you got an Independent eval at their expense,the parental safeguards,state you have the right to this IEE,after you disagree with their evaluation,that you do not believe they reached the right conclusions) Unless you have an eval from them,they don’t have to give you the IEE.( in other words)
C. Either way the result of this meeting made the school even more obligated to DO an EVALUATION. So this is a win win situation. The obsurdity of her remarks make them more obligated to evlaute,and by throwing out something as stupid as emotionally disturbed,she push herself out of doing this eval.
If you taped this meeting AWSOME! If not,request that you tape EVERY single meeting you have with this individual here after. If you did not tape this meeting,write a follow up letter to this meeting,down to quotes. Mrs. So and so stated” ********” send it to everyone in attendance,requesting a response as to the understanding that this was how everyone remember the meeting. They will either deny ever saying this,or not respond. If they don’t respond this IS a response. Audrey don’t worry about this fiasco,you still in the very same situation. You have requested the eval. You signed the consent. They have 60 days to do it,period. Check out my web page,you might find it helpful. It’s got a lot of links to sample letters,explanantions of evaluations,terminology etc.
http://expage.com/socksandfriends
the acting Head of Special Ed was in the room and is this sc
Thanks to all of you who wrote. To have you say, Socks, that the meeting was win win really made getting all that out, worth it. Of course we DIDN’T tape the meeting and of course I thought that I should have about an hour later. I will write down a detailed account of all that happened, but as I said in my Subject…the main man was sitting right there and nodded at everything she said. It was amazing. By the way, this is the prinicipal that asked me, about a month and a half ago, if I was a parent advocate, and I jumped down his throat in front of the entire room of people. So now, he is the ACTING Special Ed. person for the District while the main guy has surgery. Could it be weirder?
We will win, I am determined, and thanks to all of you who waded through my meeting!
What a great perspective Socks...
It made me angry just reading about it. One thing- a In my state (Vermont) a psychologist is able to made the diagnosis of emotional disturbance. Based on my observation of the time most psychologists put in with clients vs most psychiatrists I know- this is just fine. I will take the psychologist any day. However, a psychiatrist must prescribe any medication.
Robin
Re: the acting Head of Special Ed was in the room and is thi
Okay a few more things..
Robin is abosolutely right,it would depend on your state. Possibly a psychologist COULD diagnose an emotional disorder,but they can not treat one. Again in my state the psychiatrist provides input,for possible reccomdations. I suppose my point was if we are going from “there is nothing wrong with her,to gee,I think she has an array of disorders”,you have every right to suggest a more qualified evaluator. Again Robin,is abosolutely correct again,that a psychologist can do a much better job at evaluating. Not suggesting a psychiatrist,but what I am suggesting is using this crap thrown out at this meeting to your advantage.
Most defintely, the statements made lend credence to NEEDING an evaluation,and by not suggesting that one not be done is a violation of Child Find.
I am visualizing the sped director getting this follow up letter, with you questioning the validity of this school psych statements,and really having a fit. Bottom line is, She went where no one should go,before a formal evaluation. This can only work to your advantage.
If your daughter has ED she would qualify for a IEP,or 504.
If your daughter has an eating disorder she could qualify for a 504 and possibly an IEP if she needed an ed plan.
If your daughter had a behavior problem causing her to not or refuse to do her homework,she could qualify for a 504 or IEP depending on what this Disorder could be called,IE ODD.
It doesn’t matter what they call it,they REALLY need to evaluate now. They dug such a hole,all you have to do is fill it in.
Child find states they MUST identify. No matter what is causing her educational problems they MUST provide FAPE.
You will probably never get an adequate evaluation through the district. Sounds like they probably are not capable. No worries,let them do one,then request your independent evaluation.
Write your letters,following up this meeting. Going to be willing to bet,administration will be very concerned,and no one is going to remember this meeting the way you do. Again,you have your consent for evaluation,they have 60 days to do it,period.
Taping is a good way to document meetings,and control what stupid people decide to say,but the real focus is DOCUMENTATION. If you do not tape,or are not allowed to tape,just make sure you have documentation of what was said.
They want you to feel hopeless,they want you to be scared away from wanting an evaluation. Are you? Don’t be.And the next time they ask you are you a Parent advocate? Say,hell yes,are you?
Re: the acting Head of Special Ed was in the room and is thi
And another thing…
Forgot to mention ,yes I read that the director was there,if these statements are documented in a letter, it is legally binding and admissible in court,they will be concerned.
Here is a suggested letter:
Dear so and so,
On 11/ /01 a meeting was held to further discuss my daughters educational difficulties and my request for a formal educational evaluation signed and dated ________. The purpose of this meeting was to collect factual data to determine the reasons for evaluating. In this meeting Mrs. (stupid a*** school psychologist) made the statements that if evaluating my daughter,she might be shown to be emotionally disturbed,eating disordered,and or depressed? These statements were after observations over a period of 1 hour. It was suggested by Mrs. sos and so, that because of this I ,her parent,might want to refuse continuing with this evaluation. Specificly she stated,” write it down exactly how she said it”
Under child find it states:
§300.125 Child find.
(a) General requirement.
(1) The State must have in effect policies and procedures to ensure that—
(i) All children with disabilities residing in the State, including children with disabilities attending private schools, regardless of the severity of their disability, and who are in need of special education and related services, are identified, located, and evaluated; and
(ii) A practical method is developed and implemented to determine which children are currently receiving needed special education and related services.
I am now very concerned with this suggestion that my duaghter remain unidentified.Regardless of the degree of disability,the LEA,and their personnel are obligated to identify her. Mrs’s so and so’s suggestion makes me uncomfortable continuing with this school psychologist evaluating my daughter. I am now requesting another qualified evaluator. If this was her evaluation,I am now formally requesting an independent evaluator at district expense. I am in disagreement of her observations, being a an equal participent in the team meeting,that I have the right to voice my disagreements. In order to recieve an ubiased evaluation, I feel the need at this time to request another evaluator. If no other evaluator is possible,then I again am requesting an independent evaluation at district expense. I have signed consent for evaluation,the State of ____ has 60 days from consent to evaluation to complete this. To violate child find,to not fullfill the obligations under IDEA,would also be denying my daughter a free and appropriate education. I trust you understand my reluctance to allow this evaluator to continue with her evaluation. I am however still requesting that the evaluation be done.
In very Kind regards,
The Mother from Hell….
ahhh,the sounds of a state complaint,this is what it will sound like,they will hear this loud and clear.
They will call you,wanting to make you feel like your a crazy person. This is NOT what happened at this meeting,this is NOT what was suggested,etc. Your response should be,I remain requesting this evaluation,and I remain requesting another evaluator,and I am trying to exhaust all administrative remedies,to obtain an educational evaluation on my duahgter. Hang up,and write a follow up letter to this phone call. Completed with quotes.
thank you for the " form " letter socks & why
When I jumped down the throat of this Middle school principal a month ago, he touted himself as the head of a Special Ed. school for 15 years. He didn’t talk like one. When we went into this meeting, he was proud as a peacock to introduce himself as the “Acting Head” of the districts Special Education Department. He was like a little kid, all puffed up assuring me he was important in the special ed. world! All it did was make me understand how poorly this district deals with the needs of Special Ed. children.
Now, why did this woman threaten us with “emotionally disturbed”? If she really thought that wouldn’t she want to help my daughter? I taught high school for about 5 months, and had several “emotionally disturbed” in my classes. There was one girl who truly fit the profile, and it seemed to me she was “emotionally disturbed” from years of dealing with the public school system! But seriously, because Dr. so and so said it twice, has she so little understanding of the law that she thought this wouldn’t be even more serious?
I know my ex-husband wants to go about this with extreme caution and patience and peace, and not alienate the teachers, because my daughter has really settled in well with some (perhaps many) of them. How do you fight back at the administration without making them wary?
Re: thank you for the " form " letter socks &
This is just my point. She,probably doesn’t know her obligation to your daughter. She wanted to scare you away from wanting an eval. All that,you don’t want her labeled nonsense. She can’t come up with” your daughter is emotionally disturbed” alone.It’s a team decision and from what you stated noone else was saying boo. She doesn’t necessarily want to help or hurt your daughter. She is 4 months behind and wants one less eval to do. it’s not about your kid,nothing personal,it’s about,the funding they have to do evals,and how many kids they already have in sped.
The fact is she violated the law,a procedural safeguard,and she doesn’t appear to be qualified to evaluate.
The thing that makes her rantings so obsurd and disturbing to others is,this IS still a covered disability.
Personally I wasted a lot of time trying to be Peaceful and not alienate the teachers,a lot of time.I would never give anyone the impression that they must do things my way,I just tell others how I would do it,and why.
You could very easily forget this meeting happened. Make very sure they realize that you still WANT the evaluation,and allow them to do it.
Once the eval was done,you could request your independent evaluation,and submit this to the team.
Whatever you do,this meeting didn’t hurt your child. It was a major waste of time,and an apalling display of discriminatory practices by a district.
What this evaluation says, it is still up to the team to decide on a plan. You and your ex are part of that team.You’ll still have the right to request an independent eval. after the district does there’s.
Either way,the time when peaceful and nonalienation will end.
This district is not chomping at the bit to do this eval,or staff her into sped. I would suspect the peaceful will end,as soon as you inform them you intend on keeping them to their timeline.
I personally never had a district retaliate against a child. But remember the old saying,the squeaky wheel.
socks, you put it all in perspective.
Your nethaven website is outstanding! I found a great article on the handwriting disorder (that I can’t spell) that I will take to our private Psych meeting this week.
Your last post really put it into the proper light for me. We have walked on eggshells and complied and complied to try to keep my daughter out of the D grade area. Thankfully that never materialized from the terrible first three weeks.
And because I lost my temper at that first meeting, I am only allowed to blow every other meeting (:) ). Seriously, we played fair at this meeting, let them allow that woman to put all her feet and arms and hands into her mouth, and now it’s time to get down to the real agenda which they are not going to set, we are. Thanks so much for all your input and help. Its tremendous to have this support during this confusing and what often feels like a desperate time, when my child’s childhood is ticking away and I can’t seem to tip the scales (so to speak!!) in her favor.
Re: What a great perspective Socks...
Socks, I knew you would have the right ammo, way to go. Audrey, all my fingers crossed and prayers going for you. Best wishes.
some thoughts
Part of the problems with writing and organization stem from ADD and how her mind is working and to compound that your daughter has been having problems with medication and sleeping recently which have probably added to her performance in school and socially.
I have been chewed out by old dog professionals because I had the guts to call them on the carpet for lack of professional services. It sounds like the district got a fruitcake besides a warm body for a psychologist and as socks said, you have the information you need to sally forth. Perhaps going for a nice walk in the afternoon before or after the homework begins will help ease the stress and anxiety for both of you. Good luck to you.
Re: socks, you put it all in perspective.
Well Audrey,thank you. Nethaven is actually not my website. I just do the weekly advocacy chat on there:-) The handwriting article you speak of was written by Sue Jones. She does a education chat weekly on nethaven,and would THE person to help regarding what testing should be done.
The disability you speak of is called dysgraphia,both of my children have this. I would probably be called dysgraphic in todays world,but I was diagnosed dyslexic instead. Yeah,believe it or not. I AM dyslexic.
My webpage is full of links to articles specific to the laws that protect your child. I basicly put all my favorites togethers on a wepage. It might be of some help too.http://expage.com/socksandfriends.
If you get this message,please stop by at nethaven and chat. I would LOVE it.
www.net-haven.net 9P EST monday,wed. Thursday and sundays,we are there.
We all know how you feel,we have all been there.
And by the way...Robin
I don’t know if you remember,but YOU were instrumental in helping me when MY two were being evaluated and later classified dysgraphic. You provided me with information and input that helped me to help them get what they are getting today. If I never told you this before,(((((THANK YOU!)))))
Re: Disasterous first meeting & threats of no 504 covera
Audrey,
We did not have a great experience with our school psych (nothing compared to your horrors) and went elsewhere for a 2nd and private eval. We paid 750$ for an extensive eval with a well respected ed psych and a clinical psych. $2000 seems awfully pricy. There are advocates you can take with you that are usually affiliated with a successful private practitioner who specializes in ADD. Sometimes developmental peditriacians have referrals,too. Look for learning specialists, ADD coaches. Don’t give up. Good luck
Re: Disasterous first meeting & threats of no 504 covera
Around here, $2,000 is actually about right, perhaps even a bit low, for a really good complete neuropsyche workup. You get what you pay for. I’ve seen the results of $200, $500, and $2,000 testing. As a teacher, I know the testing and subsequent recommendations (very important) are of the highest quality when they’re done by the neuropsyche who charges the most. I wish it weren’t true, but it is.
Re: Disasterous first meeting & threats of no 504 covera
My dd’s neuropsych eval. was $2,000 too. It was incredibly comprehensive, probed more things than the school has done since. At that point, my insurance paid for it, but now they would no longer pay.
Audrey,
I don’t know if I can help, just wanted to say that I am appalled at your situation with the ‘psycho’. You are right, if this was to determine testing, then the lady was out of line. You have the right to have your daughter tested. Period. I had a disagreement with the psych at my son’s elegibility meeting over whether he should or not be qualified for sp.ed versus a 504. Fortunately for us the sp.ed director for the district was there and agreed with my husband and me and the teacher that he was in need of sp.ed services and should be qualified(the teacher and I had a lot of evidence). We were familiar(and friendly) with the principal, the teacher,and the school counselor so the meeting was cordial. I don’t understand why your school folks were so quiet. I think Socks or one of the other experts on this board will be able to help you out better than I. I just felt like I had to say something, you aren’t alone. My son has add/inattentive and capd, I had him tested to rule anything else out. Which it did. I know there are more meds that can be used for add, ask the doc if he will try something else that may help her with her add. Stimulants aren’t the end all,be all. As far a legal, more knowledgeable folks than I will be able to address the issue. Hang in there.