Help..Am I creating a monster or advocate

This one of the main reasons I am taking my son out of sped. I have seen the same learned helplessness from him starting to crop up. I makes me crazy to think my child who in the past has always been the one to say he doesn’t need help is now doing this.
The sped teacher in his class is really causing this. She gives him way to much help.

Let the teacher know that you don’t support this attitude and that you support her efforts to require your daughter do it herself. Consider yourself lucky the teacher is asking more of her.

The only thing I would add is…if she has an aide in the classroom, what is she doing!? Your daughter should be asking the aide for help first.

Janis

Let me say this..My daughter belongs on an IEP..especially with the state testing. Furthermore,the aide is fantastic.She moves from child to child.I am surprised that she has time to breath.Where does it say that the teacher can not assist a LD child? As a parent,I have never been told to instruct my child to go to the aide first.I thought which ever adult is in the classroom or she approaches first..Both should work together to educate all.

I give aides alot of credit.They work hard and put in long hours.They always try to come up different learning styles for each child.It has to be challenging.In my daughters classroom..I know of 5 kids on IEP’s.The aide can not work with all 5 individual but that is how it is set up currently.If the five were pulled into a resource room..it would not benefit them..They are three grade levels above the others.Why pull them if they can keep up in a classroom with assistance.Some day,they might not need assistance but with the state exams and high pace,they do.

I don’t disagree with you, except that usually the teacher will not have much time to give one-on-one attention during class time. Perhaps she can be asked if she will do some individual help after school. If the aide is there to serve the 5 special ed. students, I still think she needs to be asked for help first as that is her entire purpose in being there. Now this depends on what the teacher is actually doing at the time. If she has assigned seatwork and is finished presenting the lesson, then of course she should be available to any child in the class for brief help. But if she is still teaching, then I think the aide needs to be helping. Remember that the teacher still has probably 20 or more other kids in the room who may need help and they don’t have an aide to help them.

It is great if this placement is working for your child. It is the best way (staying in the regualr class) for those on grade level to keep up with the state curriculum.

Janis

There’s a fine line here. It all depends on what kind of help is being asked and what the assignment is for.
If the student just doesn’t understand a vocabulary word or can’t follow the complex instructions, then it’s perfectly reasonable for the teacher to explain what work is to be done; but if the teacher has just finished demonstrating the skill and working through it with the class (a rare occurrence these days, when few teachers actually teach, but it does happen), and the student wants the homework done for her, then that kind of “help” is a waste of time and academically dishonest.
If the assignment is a practice assignment to get the hang of a new idea, then talking the student through it is perfectly reasonable; but if it is a final review or test, then again “help” is counterproductive and academically dishonest.

When I was attempting to teach in schools, I kept running into students who wanted “help” on tests and graded assignments — after they had not done anything on the practice work, of course. I refused to do the work for them, because I see no point in answering a high school test myself and then grading my own answers. I already passed high school a long time ago and we know I can do the work; the whole point of the affair, I always thought, was to get my students to do the work.

Here is my look on this. I have a self-contained 11th grade English class. These kids have to pass the state tests, the SOLs. I am remediating their writing and reading skills and have been very successful in having my kids pass the 11th grade SOL test. These kids have to pass to get a at least a modified diploma, let alone a standard one. The biggest thing getting in their way is their knowledge of the fact that they are LD ? and have an IEP. On day one, I told them that since I was remediating their learning discrepency and that I would not be honoring their accommodations be cause I can’t remediate if I do that. I also told them that they can do the work and showed them the portfolio of last year students’ work. I also told them that their projects would be due the last day of the nine weeks, so there wouldn’t be any extra time. I also told them that if they gave me sloppy work, after I taught them how to write, they would have a 0 and would have to do it again. I also told them that I didn’t want to hear about them not being able to do it because they are ‘LD’. I had to go to those extremes in order for them to work and not bother studying or doing their writing assignment. Now, these are kids that all have passed some of their state tests, some biology, some World History, some algebra, so they can do the work and they can pass their English test if they listen to what I teach them and learn. The excuse that they are LD is used every day in some of their classes so that they won’t have to do their work. Many of them are learned helpless. I don’t believe that all of these kids are ‘disabled’ but most are the victem of dysteachia, yea whole language.

So after having said that, get your child remediated in whatever she is lacking and stop her from depending on her accommodatitions. One last story, I remember a girl coming into my reading class telling me that she can’t read and telling me all of her accommodations, while carrying a book that she was reading on dyslexia! She knows now that she can read and doesn’t use the accommodations. She also went from a C-D student in self-contained classes to an A-B student in academic inclusion classes. She quit being learned helpless. Of course, it didn’t hurt that I improved her reading level and taught her that she could….

Shay, just out of curiosity. My daughter uses books on tape to study for science tests and social studies tests. Not b/c she cannot read at grade level, but because it is still a slow task and she often gets headaches afte reading for extended periods of time. My concern is not with her ability to read, but the volume of reading required. She is in all general ed classes. I am also planning to get the RFBD books on tape. What is your take on this? Just interested in your opinion.Any any others, Victoria, Susan Long, Janis?

Leah,

I think this is fine, particularly if she reads along as she listens. That may even help her fluency. I relaly don’t personally see that as a crutch.

Janis

Last time she didn’t read along, actually played in her room and took a bath while listening. (She made an 89% on the test - with that being her only “studying”, so I’m not going to complain). As we use it more regularly in the future, I will make her read along. Thanks for your response.

Hey, listening while bathing…sounds like a wonderful accommodation to me! :-)

Janis

Why would a child asking for a help be a monster? Your dear daughter is aware of her rights - as we all should be - and is asking, not insisting, that she be given the help any child should be and that she be law deserves to be given.

Good for her! Ever counsel her to ask politely so no teacher may think her a monster and this practice should ever serve her well both in school and in life.

I fear IDEA is creating monsters. What I have seen in 25 years of serving children is larger class-sizes, less educated staff, a lowering of the college instructional demands, lax standards of student placement - yell loud enough, tantrum, demand, buy a test and you can have the rights of the handicapped (this includes parents and administrators) and guess what - there are more laws and procedures than anyone in 1976 would have imagined.

Parents have rights. Unions have rights. Administrators have rights. Students and teachers are the bottom run of this bureacracy gone mad.

The only positve movements I’ve seen has been in teaching technology and the homeschooling movement. I also laud the growth of IDA and LDA while lamenting CEC’s fall into the hands of the very faddish and PC university crowd.

The student demanding from the teacher (especially if that teacher is a good, fair teacher) is sad. From a Southerner’s perspective, it is rude.

Thank you for expressing that, Ken. It was what I was thinking, but just didn’t have the nerve to say. (Guess southerners think alike ;-)

The other thing I’d like to comment on is that in the past I was an occasional member of CEC. But a few years ago they began getting into some PC issues that have NOTHING to do with special education and I gave up my membership for good. At least IDA sticks to their intended purpose!

(Thanks for the prompt delivery of my Great Leaps!)

Janis

Hi Leah,
Your daughter needs reading instruction. Reading slow can be caused from many reasons. If she was taught to read using whole language, she is having problems decoding words with the advanced code as well as MS words. If she was taught using phonics programs that have rules in them, the rules may be getting in the way. She is getting tired and having headaches due to the fact that she is trying to read using different parts of the brain that isn’t supposed to be doing that function. I recommend that you get Reading Reflex, give her the tests in it and contact me and I will help you with remediating the problems.

Books on Tape are great but she should be taught how to read so that she doesn’t have to depend on them. My daughter had them until she was remediated.

I totally agree with you! I have been saying this for years. We are making kids that can’t do anything and have no self-confidence. Thank you whole language!

.she told the teacher that she has LD and demands help in math.Monster or advocate???

It is the mother that is worried that something is amiss. My intuition tells me that indeed something is amiss. Understanding a learning disability is important for a child, announcing to the world you have one is a violation of your own confidentiality with possible remifications an elementary child may not be able to understand.

Now I wasn’t there for the incident as described, nor was the mother. There are a myriad of ways the scenerio could have gone. Most likely is that the overworked teacher didn’t have the time or has found herself in over her head and does not know how to make the time. You turn your back to help one and the rest of the class goes ape. Yes, there may be an aid in the room. The aid may not have the slightest clue of how to help.

The child may be in an INCLUSION setting for math, and though she cannot process simple math - the group is working on Pre-Algebra and quite naturally, the child wants to work on Pre-Algebra also. She can’t hope to understand with the necessary pre-requisites but there are too many egos and theories in the way to help the child out….and the IEP the child waves is certainly a legal document - but is there anything on it that will guide the student through basic skills until he/she can compete in the mainstream. (Those type interventions are not time-consuming, by the way.)

The child may be completely lost and the teacher completely inept. If so, the IEP team should meet and develop a setting in which the child can learn to expectation. If there is a refusal to meet the needs of the child, believe me, there is legal recourse. (If you can get on the docket - too many minor and/or inane demands have clogged this system.)

In no case should your child be “demanding” from adults in authority. In my opinion it will only create hostility and interfere with proper treatment. I completely disagree with the previous writer. She needs to learn how to work systems - not antagonize them. Perhaps your family frustration over treatment over time is being voiced by your daughter. I may understand the behavior, but I understand more what the behavior may lead to - and it is not, nor never will be, in the best interests of your child. You know, I have the same opinions of adults who have demanded their way from me. I prefer, “Let us reason together.”

Just to expand on a point Ken just made, I thought to myself…is this child on grade level in math? If so, great. But if she is below grade level, then an inclusion math class is not appropriate. Math is one area that you can’t be doing a higher level when you don’t have the prerequisite skills. I see this happen frequently and it still amazes me that people don’t get this!

Janis

Not just from a Southern perspective. We Canadians don’t appreciate it at all.

However, there are ways to ask that are reasonable.

That said, as I pointed out above, there are different kinds of “help”, some real and some disastrous.

As other parents mentioned below, a lot depends on whether the child is close to grade level and is able to be in the mainstream math class. I often run into this as a math teacher; a kid in algebra who is asking how to do basic addition. As a teacher, you have to say “look, that isn’t the topic of this class and I have to teach algebra now”. OF COURSE you offer help in addition when you can, during practice work time, after class, in the resource room, with extra tutors, etc.; but if you stop teaching algebra for more than a minute to re-teach carrying, then the whole class suffers and we have another watered-down math program that everyone is up in arms against.

If someone “helps” the child pass math by doing the work for her (a very frequent occurrence with well-meaning but uninformed aides) then you create false expectations and it’s all the harder when she fails the first honest test and has to go way back to where she left off working by herself. A teacher refusing this kind of “help” is NOT being unkind; she’s preventing even worse trouble later.

Recently, I posted about how my brother took it upon himself to get copies of his accomodations and hand them out to his teachers. When he presented them he also asked the teacher to sign, acknowledging that they had received them.

I personally don’t feel like this is creating learned helplessness, he has gone 9years of school, receiving little to no instruction and services, he has finally had enough and is requiring that the school pick up their end and take responsibility.

My first instinct when I read this story was that something is not right in the classroom. From my own experience with my brother, I know it took a lot to push him over the edge with his aide. The aide was not helping him, although in IEP meetings he insisted he was my brother’s best friend, finally after the aide said “You know it takes more than one teacher to teach you” Did my brother snap.

I just question what is going on in the classroom before I blame a child for trying to get help, and my own opinion is that children saying I demand you help me, means she was at her wits end trying to get help!!

K.

My daughter is in Lindamood Bell. Reading much better, albeit slowly (to me at least, but I tend to read very fast). They are now working on the 4 syllable words, doing the “hard stuff” as her tutor puts it. I will pick up the reading reflex book.

I have alot of friends with LD. When they share their stories of growing up pre IDEA they explain how difficult it was and how they had to work harder than everyone else. These people are extremely hard working productive adults. I wonder about how their work ethic developed in their early years. I also see an emotional tole in some, whose parents were less understanding and supportive. The one’s with good parenting really grew up to be amazing people.

IDEA should be about remediating deficits, not creating co-dependance. Deficits are rarely addressed. I think teachers don’t even know exactly what each child’s deficit area is. They just teach and re-teach the same things over and over again, using the same methods that didn’t work before.

So many say schools don’t have the money for real remediation of deficits. I personally think it would be cheaper than keeping kids in sped for 12 years where little gets done except encouraging learned helplessness.

Gee, Linda, for a second I thought I had written that post! You summed up my feelings very well!

Janis