Dear Friends,
Well, I did say it all seemed to go too easy with the Principal, right? I have a special question for Linda F. Linda, when your son’s teacher assumed that he had some how been the root cause in the situation where the other child was whispering in HIS ear, how did you deal with that incident? How did your son feel about this teacher and did they successfully work together after that?
The reason I ask is, we have already had a similar incident. We sent him back into this same classroom again yesterday, fingers crossed that things would go more smoothly, at least until we could have our Friday meeting. Apparently, during the course of the morning schedule, my son was disrupting the class alot. At least, that is what was finally written in the agenda for us, that he was talking, playing, and disrupting the class all day, that he had had several warnings, with a big sad face included. I have no doubt that this account of the morning is completely accurate. I know all too well that he is capable of all of these things. When questioned about it, he ran to his room, embarassed, yelling he never wanted to go to school again. I was at least relieved that the teacher had finally written the note about his infractions, but did wish it I had been given more details about exactly what he did, etc., so as to better explain why that was not appropriate to him.
Then, just when you think you have a handle on what is going on, more information comes in. The new information came from both my son AND his older sister about what happened in the lunch room that day. My daughter’s class was just entering the lunchroom so she was happy to get the opportunity to briefly see her brother, who’s class was just rising from their table, preparing to exit. She explained in great detail the following events. She witnessed both one little boy and another little girl on seperate occasions, poking Daniel in the side, agrivating him, as she described it. She also said that the little girl took Daniel’s small ziplock bag of miniture cookies from him and taunted him with them, threatening to eat them, and laughing. She then took his lunch box from him, held it up over his head and taunted him again, saying come on try to get it, try to get it. Well, as any red blooded, red headed five year old would do, he attempted to retrieve his lunch box. At this point, this is when the teacher’s assistant FINALLY took notice of the situation. My daughter said that the other children immediately clammed up and took on an innocent appearance. At that point the TA told Daniel, he would loose ten minutes of recess. He attempted to explain what had happened, and she would not hear him out. She did not punish any of the other children, just him.
Needless to say, we are very disappointed. Like my husband said, these other children were invading his personal space which is against school rules, Daniel was trying to defend himself because the teacher was not there to do so for him, and he got punished for something the others caused. I suspect that the teachers had been pretty frustrated with him all morning, had given him serveral warnings, probably without punishment at the time, so when this incident in the lunchroom took place, they pounced. My daughter was highly insensed about the whole thing. She felt very strongly that it was unfair and injust. She wanted very much to have the opportunity to tell what she witness to the Principal, but my husband sent her own to class this morning and spoke with the Principal alone.
Now the Principal is suggesting that these teachers be observed today without prompting them. I don’t see where this will provide any useable information, as Daniel isn’t there so observing them today seems useless to me. She also says she would like for all of us to meet, discuss the situation, the teachers, the guidance counselor, I am invited, Daniel should be there also so he can discuss his feelings with the teacher and the guidance counselor. If he were older, I think that would be benefitial, but at his age, I think it will do more harm than good. The Principal also suggests that after this meeting, we send Daniel, with the guidance counselor, back into the same classroom for another try.
I have many feelings about this. First of all, the meeting will most probably feel like the Spanish Inquisition for Daniel. The teachers will naturally be defensive, as he WAS behaving poorly in class during the morning that day. I can’t help but think, Daniel will feel put on the spot in front of all of these people. He will surely feel publicly shamed for his misbehavior that morning and on previous days. If I were him and my parents put me in that situation, I would be very upset.
Then the whole plan to send him with the guidance counselor to the same class seems very flawed as well. Certainly while she is there, there will be no problems observed. The other children may see this as preferentual treatment, and only turn up the volume on the taunting later when the adult backs are again turned. Then what will happen Monday, and the rest of the time he must stay in this teachers class without the guidance counselor at his side? It would be extremely difficult if not impossible for this teacher and her aid not to allow their experiences with Daniel thus far not to affect the manner in which they relate to him.
I don’t like the plan at all. I still think switching teachers is best, but now the Principal has used the whole “giving in to him will not provide him the lesson to face adversity” theory with my husband and has him half convinced that she is right to send him back to the same class again!
All my ADD books say that we ADD people, meaning me, tend to make impulsive decisions, sometimes acting on intuition, which in some cases can be a problem. I don’t know if I am over reacting, or viewing this too emotionally, or if my intuition is on target here, so your imput would be extremely helpful.
I think during this proposed meeting, my son should definitely NOT be present and or put on the spot. I think he should be allowed a fresh start in a new teacher’s room, one who hopefully, will not have any preconceived feelings about him. I do not want him to experience any further stress involving those teachers or classmates. While I admit and agree he is having behavioral problems, I think the focus should be on finding the root cause of his behavioral problems instead of putting more pressure and stress on him.
I intend to request in writing that they give him a Psychoeducational Evaluation. The probability is very strong that he is in need of Special Educational Services and medications(we have arranged an appt. with the Pediatrician to discuss already). The School sent home the permission forms for Daniel to be given Speech Testing yesterday. While they are at it, they might as well do all the testing needed. I now how it works though. They will say it is too early, and we should take the “wait and see” attitude. That plan failed my daughter miserably as she ended up repeating first grade, so we don’t intend to take that route again. The sooner help comes the better, right? No wonder so many parents decide they have had enough of this stress and opt for Homeschooling. The more I experience at the Systems hand’s, the more I read and learn, the more I am convinced it is the best option for both these special children and the parents, when possible of course. I am sorry to have to ask again, but any advise or opinions you might offer will be appreciated.
Your Weary Friend,
Deb
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Thank you for your response. I’m afraid that I don’t have much in the way of wisdom to offer. I am experiencing the same problems as you right now. It seems as though the school, teachers and other children have written my child off as a “bad kid”.
My husband and I have been in constant contact with the Principal and teacher. We feel we are making every possible effort, but that the educators simply don’t want to be bothered with him. I know that they have 20 something other kids to worry about, but what about mine!!??
I have read through most of the messages on this topic. I have done some reseach based on information that I have read here. We are meeting with the school tomorrow and I will be bringing a copy of the TEA Parents Rights handbook. Prehaps an IEP is necessary. I worry about the stigma of being in LD classes. I remember the ridicule the children received when I was in school. Maybe things have changes since then.
Sorry. This was supposed to be a response to you, not a complaint from me. I wished I had more to offer. Maybe next time.
Rochelle
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Hey Again Rochelle,
No apology is necessary, believe me, …I understand the need to vent very well. It does sound to me like some other form of intervention is needed for your son. Clearly isolating a child his age in the Principals office is not the proper solution for his obvious frustration. What kind of learning environment is that? All children by law have the right to a safe, comfortable, appropriate, learning environment. I hardly believe any mediation board/judge, would think the Principal’s office is an acceptable place for your son to be educated. I wish the educators would educate themselves about learning disorders and ADHD, the characteristics, and the best ways to help these kids. Punishing them for something they have little control over is NOT helping them.
I am alittle confused about his testing, did the school perform it or your pediatrician? If the school performed it and said he was definitely ADHD, then didn’t they qualify him for special ed. services? My daughter qualified as Learning Disabled under the IDEA and 504 laws. I know you are worried about the stigma of LD classes, as I do also. Still, I think that depends on the level of time he needs in the resource room and the school, it isn’t as bad as one might think. My daughter goes out to resource in the first hour of regular class time every day. She misses the review of material from the day before, but then her regular classroom teacher told us she purposely sneaks in review during the day so those who miss it in the morning will benefit from that. Our daughter is in resource with a very small group of children, so she gets one on one help with the problem areas of reading and math. Apparently with more children becoming visual learners and the schools still teaching in the old ways has created a large increase in need for special ed. Ther are so many children that go or have gone, they don’t seem to make a big deal about it. Well that is true with my daughter, who is generally quiet and well behaved. I imagine with boys and especially boys who act out, it could be different. Still, going has made an enormous difference in my daughters learning abilities. Until last January she was also receiving help from the Reading Specialist also, but as she had improved so greatly, they discontinued that. Sometimes I question if that wasn’t premature, as I suspect she has Dyslexia and is still struggling with spelling, writing, math, sequencing, and some of her reading ability. All in all though, it has been extremely benefitial.
It seems to me that your sons poor cooperation and behavior issues are coming from his frustration. It sounds like looking at exactly what is frustrating him, and remediating those particular things would aleviate at least some of his frustration. It might even improve his self esteem slightly, and then the positives may just improve his behavior. I think if it were me, I would at least give the special ed. a trial run for a semester or so. If it doesn’t work out, you can always stop it. I can’t help but think he sounds like a struggling frustrated little guy in need of some instruction that makes sense to him. So many times these kids learn differently than they are taught. I know you have been researching too, and are probably on overload, swimmy headed like me, but there is a really fasinating book called, “Right Brained Children in a Left Brained World”, by Jeffery Freed, that I highly recommend to everyone I know, particularly parents of ADD kids. If you haven’t read it, you might find it very helpful also. The reason I liked it most is that he incorporated quotes and information from several different books that I had on my future reading list. He saved me alot of reading time by giving me the meat, the most important stuff, I needed to know. It’s just a thought. Do check out the website I mentioned as well, www.wrightslaw.com. You can find everything you need to know about legal issues, all the grey areas, what are the things parents need to know that the school isn’t going to tell you etc., and they give you easy steps to take legally if needed, to best advocate for your child. They have some really good books too, I am saving up for a used copy or two from Amazon.com.
I know it is very frustrating and I don’t dare imply that I know what I am doing from one day to the next, but at least we know we aren’t the only ones, right? I am in SC and our state is dead last in the rankings of scores nationally, so you can imagine what an up hill battle we will be fighting, and those scores reflect the results from Non LD students!!! That is what we are in for for 12 years, that is if I don’t completely give up on Public School altogether. There are some really good Homeschooling organizations out there and if I had more self convidence, I would have already done it!
I wish you mental clarity, calm, cool nerves of steel, and the ability to retrieve every detail needed to get your point across in the most efficent, effective, rational manner possible tomorrow. Let us know how it goes too. All these ladies must be talking in a chat or another board somewhere. They will be back and they can offer really good advice.
Your Friend in the trenches,
Deb
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
{{{{Hugs}}}}} I would not have my child at the adult meeting. At that age, you are right, it would be too stressful for him. We have had a hard time with Kyle with “bulling” issues, he’s the proverbial 48lb weakling. It seemed like he’d get caught after he’d been pushed and pushed to action. While I try not to condone “tattling”, I’ve tried to make the point with Kyle that he’s got to speak up to his teacher. This year should be intersting, the main adversary is in his class for the first time. I’ve warned the teacher in a note to watch the situation.
I think that you are right that the classroom situation will be altered with observers. I think I’d still stick with the changing classrooms idea, since this atmosphere seems to be hopeless. I’m sorry if this hasn’t been much help. You know what’s best for your son, so fight for him! Feel free to email me if you need to!
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Mamm:
Your son’s experience of persecution you have just mentioned is one of the reasons I suggest and Benito Mussolini suggested a LD/ADD youth group or self-defense group to stick up for these kids who are being persecuted by the school system. I suggest that you wire your kid with a small microphone (concealed) or a hidden tiny videocam to collect “evidence” to show the administration he ain’t kidding about this persecution by those kids. Otherwise, these monkeys will just brush it off like it’s nothing. Anyway, I and Benito got alot of grief on this BB for suggesting an LD youth or defense group. This is one of the reason’s why we need a group to stck up for these kids. Good Luck ! I also suggest you document emails or written letters to the school about getting this problem resolved. Go get them !
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Dear Clark,
It is sad that any of us would have to see a need for such measures, but I must admit, if moving my little guy to another class doesn’t help improve the situation, we will again be searching for some way to help him.
Unfortunately, like you know all too well, the school system is a dinasour and it is soooo difficult to change or move a dinasour. While I realize if I give up the fight and homeschool my son, he will be better off emotionally, but what about the other little fellows that will follow in his footsteps.
I do believe these kids are often powerless to protect themselves in a system that doesn’t and won’t educate itself to understand them. Your ideas are intriquing and I must admit, I will be thinking on them today. It is necessary to give these kids some power over their situations and if we parents don’t do something to facilitate that, no one will.
My husband’s father once gave him some self protection advice, (that I don’t necessarily agree with mind you as a non violent person), but I understand his father’s frustration all too well. My husband was small, wore glasses, talked too much, and was being physically picked on by one certain little bully on the playgound everyday. Finally, after weeks of this sort of behavior with no help from the school, my husband’s father showed him a military tactic in order for him to protect himself.
Well the next time the bully grabbed him and began the physical abuse, Dan did exactly as his father had shown him to do. He reached up, stuck his finger in just the right pressure point, and popped the kids eyeball right out of the socket!!! Well, now, before everyone who is non violent like myself, pounces on me here, I wanted to say I don’t condone the violent act. I do however understand Dan’s fathers need to protect his son and teach his son to protect himself. While I think the military move was taking it to an extreme, that obviously worked too well, he did argue that the kid never picked on his son again. The school at the time, tried to suspend Dan for protecting himself, but once his Dad got through with them, they recanted. They knew all too well what had been going on, but did not take measures to cease it.
The sad thing is, this very situation is still going on, still being carried out on the playgounds, at schools every weekday. It shouldn’t have to be that way. That is one reason I have seriously researched and consider Homeschooling. Until society demands the complete reform of the school system it is a danger ground not a safe learning environment. I struggle with the decision to send my kids there every day. I have friends who homeschool and they don’t have to deal with this sort of thing. You can see the noticable difference in their children’s self esteem. I also think they are learning more because they can focus on their school work, where as my poor ADD kids are busy trying to not be noticed by the wrong people. Staying under the radar, as it were.
Kids have way too much put on them today, with increased curriculums, more homework, soccer or baseball practices, trying to fufill what seems politically correct, as is,… without having to try to constantly watch the shadows. Then you have the politicians, in our state(SC), decided after they have assured us that Education IS their #1 priority, they have misfigured their budget so now they will have to cut educational funding! They gloss right over their mistake, no one is publicly blamed for it or even fired for it, they just start the spin cycle. It will be difficult, everyone will have to tighten up, but we will ride it out, they say on the news. Jerks, what they really mean is, now your schools will loose programs, loose needed, good teachers, and your children are the ones who are going to suffer for our stupid mistakes. Meanwhile the politicians elect to give themselves raises and brand new desks of Mahogony,$1500. a piece because the ones purchased in the 1970’s are worn looking???????? What about our children in those portable hot boxes still using books and desks from decades ago, …and they want us to believe Education is their priority?????
No wonder some people become so jaded and disgruntle with the government. If I allowed myself to become emeshed in the abuses of power and the ignorance of it, I would go stark raving mad in outside of a week!!!! Something does have to give, something does have to change, and if we as the taxpaying voters don’t get in there and speak out, then we can’t complain.
Our elem school was featured on the local news when school started back, and it’s funny, seeing it portrayed on the screen, it looks so wholesome, so clean, and comfortable. Our school district is the one of the wealthiest in the state, yet the playground equipment hasn’t been changed until a child was injured and the school sued. The air conditioners break constantly, the doors need replacing, etc. the list is long, and they tell us they need to raise taxes in order to take care of these things. I don’t mind paying, but I don’t trust that the money is going where it should. It seems to me that there are some people in government who could afford to take pay cuts!!!
Of course, nothing is going to be done fast enough to help my child in his situation, is it? I do very much appreciate hearing from you and I will definitely be sharing your ideas and giving it more thought. I think children do need to be taught to repsect each other’s differences and right now, that is certainly NOT the case. I appreciate ideas, brainstorming is never a bad thing. Please send more, Benito as well. Hope to hear soon.
Thanks,
Debra
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Dear Laura,
Thanks for your words of support. I don’t know how those poor parents who don’t know about this site handle this stuff. The school administrators are so slick, so clever and manipulative, they will try to convince parents to relax, trust us, we are on your side, etc., all the while they are really just watching the pocketbook! It is truly disgusting. Some are worse than others of course, but as Little LuLu has said before, it all comes down to money, money, money.
I feel much more empowered and informed as a parent of LD kids from coming to this site and getting understanding, acceptance, and support. I thank you and all my fellow parents who share here. We do have to stick together and keep communicating. We go back to the battle field(school Principal’s office) on Monday, and I will update everyone after. Thanks for hearing me out and being here for me.
Sincerely,
Deb
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Here’s a simple an elegant solution to a situation that sounds like normal child behavior. but first let me say that children act out when something is bothering them emotionally and them doing so is normal. Here’s the solution. Fisticuffs. A well placed right hook to the chops can solve a lot of problems. Kids can’t think past lunch but a fat lip and a black eye is a constant reminder that you screwed up. Of course the school will over-react with that zero tolerance crap but kicking the crap out of a bully teaches a more valuable lesson than anything his school has to offer. Kids should be allowed to settle their own differences.
As far as him being naughty at school, not everything is this over-diagnosed mystery called ADHD. Instead of laying a guilt trip on him punish him appropriately, but before doing that see if there is something bugging him. You’ll need to listen.
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
mamm:
i do feel sorry for what your kid goes through day after day. It should be zero tolerance for this harrassment. Unfortunately, that ‘s not the case here, so I just have a bit of advice here. I am not a violent person either. It is good to try to let the system work. If it doesnt, then I look for other ways to get the result in. I advise you to let your kid know that he has your permission to defend himself when attacked. Every kid does have that right… Also, you might see if a LD/ADD orgnization has a mentoring program or a normal non-LD group too. See if your kid might be able to befriend a bigger kid to stick up for him. I am of the opinion that any administrator who allows persecution of LD kids to go on unabattted, should be siezed and pants pulled down and spanked ! Spanked ! Male or female same treatment. Then they should never be allowed to administer again. Let them go back to teaching in the system with a pay cut or spension might work.
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Kyle started Tae Kwon Do in January just for fun, he is wonderful about not using what he’s learned on the playground. We have talked with him about feeling free to defend himself against other boys. The boy who has been bullying him is in Kyle’s Sunday School class, in addition to 2nd grade class. A couple of weeks ago, this boy got Kyle in a choke hold at church (of all places!!) to take a toy Kyle had. Kyle hauled off and rammed his elbow into the boys stomach and he backed off. We were so proud! We are a non violent family also, but our theory has become “Don’t start it, but be able to finish it if you have to!” The sad thing is, we are at a private school!
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Dear Laura,
I think your family’s motto will need to be our family’s motto also. That makes perfect sense to me. I want to get Daniel into Martial arts also as he is very interested but we have to be able to afford both his special interest class and his sisters. So far the budget hasn’t stretched far enough. We are working on getting Dad MCSE certified so that he might obtain one of these IT jobs he has interviewed for. He has almost 10 years experience in the field, can work circles around most computer geeks, but just because he doesn’t have the silly paper, no job offer! He has four exams to go, and works extra hours at a demanding job that doesn’t pay him enough for his efforts. We tried Mom working too for awhile, but the kids hated daycare. When I say hated, I mean HATED! The noise and the lack of order, some of the kids would disobey the care workers, then they would scream and yell at the top of their lungs. Who could blame any child for not wanting to go there. I think my two have a touch or more of Sensory Intagration Dysfunction. They are unusually sensitive, especially to loud noises, like the blow dryer, or vacuum sends them running, hands cupped over their ears, like we were receiving incoming artillary. Needless to say, they begged daily not to go, and it tore at my heart. I was working for low wages that barely covered the cost of the daycare to begin with, so we decided it wasn’t worth it. If I had the college degree and a professional position, it might be different I guess, but at least until they are older, I feel my place is with them.
I am glad to hear that your son was able to stop that bully in his tracts! Way to go! It is always good to hear when the persecuted wins for a change! I know this has helped his self esteem too. I will definitely be working to get Dad in that better job and or rework our budget if possible so that our children can benefit from the same. Thanks for writing.
Sincerely,
Debra
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Thanks for responding Ball,
I have to say, all good advice. I guess it would be hard for me to completely explain all the reasons why I suspect that Daniel has ADHD and or Dyslexia, but after many, many furstrating experiences in school myself, then struggling and agonizing through academic failures, testing, and counseling with his eight year old sister, and many, many present characteristics in Daniel himself, I cannot help but highly suspect he is both cursed and gifted with this Right Brained way of life.
Unfortunately, for him to receive special education services, which I know already, he will need, he will first have to go through the school’s official testing to qualify. I do agree that often stuff like what happened between the kids is normal. In my sons case, he probably didn’t have the right answer in the moment to handle what was happening to him, so he probably screamed and cried. He is slightly more immature than most his age, whether that be a stand alone condition or a result of the disorder. Either way, it sets him up for a hard time in a school, who’s District has opted to replace the 5K curriculum with a first grade curriculum just so they can force better scores in the standardized testing! No kidding, the Principal admitted this to my husband. I guess her hands are tied, they tell her what to do or else, she’s just a cog in the machine.
Academically they have already stacked the deck against Daniel, and then the insult to injury, has been the less than understanding teacher. In our particular situation, the teacher dropped the ball when she didn’t keep communication open by letting us know exactly when he had transgressed. The fact that she was already doling out real punishments the first week in kidergarten for talking and moving seems a bit rediculous. That aside, if a parent makes a written request to be notified of punishments, and then you don’t notify them, you’ve dropped the ball. Then, we discussed our sons anxiety about his teacher, how he claims she was mean to him with the Principal. We tried cooperation and asked to have a meeting with them about it and she promises to speak to his teacher and agreed to a meeting. Low and behold, the next day was when theDaniel misbehaved in the a.m. and then the lunchroom fiasco took place. When we contacted the Principal again, about the newest issues on the table, she hadn’t even spoken with the teacher, nor had she arranged the meeting!!! So in that, she dropped the ball too!!!
I don’t know how they expect these very young children, we are talking five years old here, with an emotional maturity of probably much less, to behave on a perfect scale, when they are professional adult educators and they can’t cut the mustard!!!! My husband wants to start charging them for OUR time since we have to come to the school to do their jobs for them!
I agree about Daniel having something bothering him emotionally also. That is the one area I do pride myself in that, I do listen to them, very carefully, every day, listening between the lines too, so to speak. Thankfully, he is fairly open and will usually share what is bothering him. His sister was a much tougher nut to crack. She is the introvert, the loner, the quiet, creative child, who is always aloft in her thoughts far away. Still, I figured out how to be patient and she does come to me when I don’t pressure her.
Daniel very expressively, very clearly has told me from the second day of school that he liked school last year, but this year, it is too long, he doesn’t like going, it’s too hard. Last year was a half day in 4K, with an easier going teacher and less restictive environment and curriculum. He says that his new teacher is nice when I am there with him and in the halls with other parents, but after I am gone, she turns mean. He says she is mean to him, not the other children. I realize five year olds exagerate and Daniel is very good at it at times, but when he starts making up illnesses and ailments to get out of going to school, I no longer think he is exagerating. The meanest teacher I ever had was my first grade teacher, so as awful as it is, I do believe they are capable of being mean and judgmental even to such small children.
He says he tries to be good and not talk when he isn’t suppose to. I believe he is trying, but the schedule and curriculum are overwhelming him, so his mind tunes out and he begins to fidget and wander. He hangs his head shamefully and says that no matter how hard he tries to be good before the end of the day, he gets into trouble. It both embarasses him and lowers his self esteem. The worse part is that I can tell this teacher has made up her mind about him. He is marked, he is the problem child in her class, so from here out, if there is a problem and she needs one to have started it, guess who she will pick? Well, that is if we were silly enough to leave him in HER class, which I will not do. I will teach him at home first before I let her go at him again.
I also intend to go to the school board and find out which genious’ idea it was to change the kindergarten curriculum to first grade curriculum asap. It was hard enough that they insituted full day kindergarten just a year ago, but now the difficulty level and pace of the work needs to increase too? It is too demanding on any of them, but especially those who may have learning difficulties.
I suspect that before the year is over, we will have many other incidents if we continue public schooling, that is. From what I have heard, this sort of thing follows a child and its hard for them to escape it in the same school. It is one thing for other children to judge and pick on a child, but entirely another, for a teacher to do so.
My child is smart and creative and he can problem solve as well as some older children, but to place such overwhelming responsibilities on him, is most assuredly attributing to his lack of attentiveness and excessive activity. Instead of punishing the heck out of him, they might try looking for the underlying cause of his poor classroom behavior. You would think that is their job wouldn’t you, to find the way to best serve the child? I know I don’t send him there to be punished, I send him their to be educated. If they don’t understand him, they can’t educate him.
In regard to the physical stuff, I like how Laura put it, “don’t start it but be ready to end it if necessary”. If you read the posted story about my husband and his father, you will know my husband is prepared with the tactical advice, should it come to that. I tend to be very nonconfrontational, so it helps to know what others would do in the situation. Thanks again for responding.
Deb
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
I haven’t read this whole thread but you might consider withdrawing him from K and having him start again last year. We almost did that with our daughter when the district went to full day. Now at 11, she is a wonderful student but I must admit that I wish she was one of the oldest instead of the youngest. Of course, we moved in the mean time to a state with different deadlines. Anyway, she is not LD (her younger brother is) but just the same the extra time would have done her good.
Beth
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
I agree with you Beth. Sometimes it works better if you keep’em at home one extra year. One of my sons had the option of entering Kindergarten last year, but instead I decided to keep him home one more year because he seemed too immature. Now he’s doing great. I don’t think it would have been so great last year.
my two cents
Hi Deb,
I have two opinions. 1) I agree that withdrawing from K this year is definitely an option. But I think that ONLY you can make that decision if the issue is immaturity or not. If it is, he surely will benefit from the extra year at home and maybe even more “pre-school” opportunities. Many schools have an “at-risk” program for 3-5 year olds that monitor and address these kids and prime them for entering Kindergarten. Depending on his birthday, he may still be eligible for this program.
BUT … if you feel that immaturity is not the issue, then there are a few avenues you can take. All schools should have a behavior policy and procedures to be followed when behavior is an issue. Request a copy of it from your principal. It should outline normal procedures and if an individual WRITTEN procedure could be implemented for your son. Many times though, this indivual written procedure only pertains to kids identified for SpEd or have a diagnosed and ED or BD (emotional disorder or behavioral disordered)
You might be able to use this opportunity of misbehaving to your advantage. Speeding up the Psychoeducational Evaluation on the premise of developing an IEP for behavior management you could also get your suspicions of LD addressed now. I know that line about “wait and see” but all the research shows that the earlier the better. Yes, there is a very wide range of average for kids this young, but if the inabilities are causing him such grief, it would be to his benefit, as well as the schools benefit, to address these issues NOW!!!
This is the contradiction that gets me. They are willing to identify kids as early as possible with these 3-5 yr. old at risk programs, but if you somehow either pass the screening (usually called preschool screening by your district) or do not go in for the screening you are screwed. If you enter K with problems or the problems surface during K, you are really out of luck. That’s when they give you the “it’s too early to tell” or “lets wait and see.” I don’t see the logic here.
My sons both passed the preschool screenings. Kindergarten was atrocious (both kids) asked for help, told its too early, there’s a broad range of average development for kids. First grade was worse than K. Beginning of the year we ask for help, told lets wait and see how he progresses within 1st grade. By the end of 1st (me reminding them of my concerns all the way along everytime they tell me there’s an issue), HOLY COW they now realize we have a “real” problem here.
The whole system (as you know) is nuts. Please trust your instinct and act accordingly. But since he is already enrolled, I would first start with getting a copy of the district’s behavior policy.
Let me know how it goes. Best wishes, Deb!
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Thanks for writing Beth,
I had read about that idea also, the starting later. I believe our state SC has gone and screwed that up for us too. I think our deadlines stand in our way with that idea for Daniel, but he is on the younger end of the class and has the immaturity problem. He probably has an emotional mentality of a 3.5 to 4 year old even if his physical age is 5. He told me this morning that he is the only child in the class who repeatedly looses all three of their warning cards. He says the other kids loose one here or there, but they are better at hiding their misbehavior for when the teacher isn’t looking than he is. Daniel has this habit of hanging his head in a shameful way when he feels poorly about himself. It seems every time we have our little talks about school and what is happening, how he feels about it, etc., he starts handing his head. That coupled with the recent mysterious illnesses and ailments he creates to get out of going tells me something very stressful is taking place in that classroom when I am not there.
If switching to another 5K class, the one with his previous teacher’s aid from 4K, who he knows and feels comfortable with, doesn’t help him feel more safe and better about himself, and we can’t post pone it, then I will bring him home and homeschool him before I allow him to continue to be punished constantly for things he has little control over. I will never forget the fear I had for my first grade teacher, which back then that was a child’s first real serious academic responsibility. She was so impatient and snappy, once she slapped me on the hand trying to get an answer out of me in reading time. She kept pointing at the word and the picture in the workbook and getting increasingly more aggitated that I wouldn’t/couldn’t answer. The more she insisted that I answer, the more my mind locked frozen, blank, helpless. The pressure shut the answer out. As soon as school was over for the day, I looked at that word, and the picture, and knew immediately what it was. If teachers could only realize what power and influence their every action has on a small impressionable child. It took me years to get over the anxiety that experience created for me about school. As you can see, I have never forgotten how strongly it affected me. There are so many things I wish could be changed about our school system. At least with people like Mel Levine and Jeffery Freed out there, there is some hope for positive change. Thanks again for sharing.
Sincerely,
Deb
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
You don’t have to send your child to school just because they turn five by some date. In fact, it has become fashionable for parents to hold their kids back. I didn’t know that when I made the decision to send my oldest chld to school at age 4 (she wasn’t five until October but the deadline was December). There are now kids almost two years older than her in her class. This is partly because academics have been pushed down to K.
If your child is young and at risk for LD, I would not have him in K this year. An extra year can really help. I don’t think it means you have to homeschool him, unless that is your preference. I would just put him back in a good preschool program and give him time to mature.
Beth
Re: Another day, another incident, your thoughts?...
Beth and Mary are on to something. Is your son young for his grade. Holding kids back is best done as early as possible before they get into the higher grades, where it can be more harmful to there self esteem.
Homeschooling him this year to give him the edge that he needs going into school with confidence next year may be just the thing.
You can find out alot about effective teaching methods from this board. You could use them to get him where he needs to be. It is interesting but some of the most effective methods are the easiest to do.
I taught my son the times tables up to 5 this summer using a method Victoria described. He has them backwards and forwards; over taught to the hilt, embedded in his brain.
We did this while driving in the car, before bed, walking to the pool. It didn’t even seem like work to him.
That reminds me, I owe him a trip to toys r us for the work he has done.
Where are you my spirit guides????? Please respond soon, I need your wisdom.
Thanks,
D