Medication and Mental Health

Dear Li Ming,
You couldnt have said your peace better, you gave both aspects to the med or not med situation and that is what is important. You also showed that it is diffinately the parent reponsibility to do what has to be done. Most of all you said a mouth full about the professionals that prescribe the meds to our kids.
As long as someone is sick they eat.
at least thats the way i took it.
I have no arguments about what you wrote.
I respect everyones opinion, but mostly ones who show the good and bad parts.
I should be getting some flack myself, but i welcome it also.

Concerned:

Thanks for listening… I do wish you luck in defeating the flak that will come from your corageous statement. I said it like it is.

Dear Mi Ling, I am one of those people that has put their child on stimulants. We had amazing results on Ritalin for a few months. Then the side effects began. We were on 3 or 4 more stimulant meds but they were even worse! We have him on Imipramine which is an antidepressant right now. It doesn’t help the ADD but it counteracts the effects that the ADD med had. He became OCD from taking med. I wish that he could take the stimulants because it was the first time in his life he could take instructions and actually follow them. He is almost 11 now and I HAVE to homeschool because of this. He would be failing in a regular classroom even though he places in the top 1% of children his age on IQ. It is a terrible dilemma for parents! I’ve tried diet and herbal remedies but they have not done ANYTHING! I don’t know what to do for my child ,but I do know that I will NOT let him slip through the cracks!! We try to give him every opportunity to learn and that is all we know to do at this point. When he begins highschool I don’t know what we will do. We are taking it 1 day at a time now. Thanks, Jan

Li Ming,

You raise some interesting points, but I would ask you to point to some research that supports your opinion that diet and/or behavior modification is an effective alternative for most people with ADHD. That would be helpful to parents who are trying to evaluate whether medication is the right choice for their child. We who are parents to children with ADHD, LD or both are very vulnerable to being led down the wrong path because we are so desperate to help our children. The only way I know for us to make intelligent choices is to be fully informed of the pros and cons of a particular treatment and the reliable research that exists to demonstrate those pros and cons.

Andrea

Just want to make the point that ADD is not a mental illness, and that ADD is not the result of bad parenting.

Medication or any of the other treatments for ADD is a highly individual decison and should be based on reliable information from reliable sources, and the best interests of the child.

Do you have an ADD child that you have primary responsibility for? What are you doing that has been effective?

For some of those with known neurological challenges like epilepsy and ADHD, the right med can be helpful to some of them (not all of them as the meds do not work for everyone).

That’s just the real world.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm

Those who say medicines for epilepsy and ADHD never work and have never ever worked for some people (not all people) to temporarily relieve symptoms are telling a big fib and never ever to be trusted or believed ever. The anti-all medicines ever cult are only promoting incorrect and dangerously ignorant ideas to people and should be recognized as such: promoters of a return to the Dark Ages of ignorance.

That’s my view.

I have read every single one of these messages on this board and have not come across one that states the meds dont work, most of these messages talk about jumping into giving meds without trying alternatives. do you mention epilepsy that is a proven side effect for short term use with ritalin and other related drugs? your opinion is a bit harsh but i respect it

Mamm:

I do pray your son will turn out okay. Really ! I can only say that I had a freind who went through what your son is going through now. The high school part really look out for that. Get him into a support social group and really try to do what you are doing now. Give him opporitunites to thrive outside of school. This is one thing my friend did not do school was it. He regrets it to this day. However, he does not miss not taking meds because, unfortunately the side effects from some of the meds can lead to depression, rapid heartbeats, stunted growth, kidney failure. It is like you start with alcohol: one drink won’t hurt; two will be bettter and so on danger of dependency… No matter if he takes the meds or not: he will be ADD for life. This baring a miricle from above will not change. Have you tried some computer software which could be educational ? Try to see if there are any of those. He can ty to learn at his own pace. Math, reading, typing, foreign language. I think Berlitz has computer software for this purpose.

Good luck !

Where do you find information and research regarding the claims that meds do work and they are safe? Hopefully not from the doctors that are trained by pharmaceutical companies. The only way people are going to get the truth is by going after it. Find all the web sites and books you can get your hands on. Look at history. There is not one drug that cures anything. Drugs kill. They kill bacteria, they kill cancer cells and so on. Where do you find the information that says that antibiotics don’t kill good bacteria too? Get all the facts, not just the parts that justify you taking them. It every persons chioce whether or not to medicate, but parents are taking for granted that their kids will thank them for giving them stimulant medication when they grow up. Not all kids are staright A students, sorry. We need to learn to live with some defiencies in life. I should give you the names and email addresses of the adult friends I have that had taken Ritalin most of thier life. Atleast the ones that’s still alive.

If the meds do not work then clearly the child isn’t add/adhd. I personally have my children on all oreganic foods since birth, tried every alternative there is until “resorting” to meds in gr.1. In Canada we only have 2 stimulants, Ritalin and Dexadrine, and no doctor would prescribe an anti-depressant for a child here. We are much stricter when it comes to medication. A new child emerged, free from hyperness and inattention, able to learn and focus,and a 100% better quality of life, academically as well as socially, and realize it herself. That was our answer. It is a personal choice to give or not to give and clearly each parents decision and no should be judging anyone elses decisions especially the few here who clearly do not have a clue what they are talking about.

Mamm:

Check the results in about 10-20 years. Healthwise: check kidneys, stature, appitite and mental health. Then see if you regret or not regret medicating your kid. By the way …. Is your kid “cured” of ADHD with these meds ? Get educated about these things… And not from a pro-pharmacutical board. From a real board of victims of meds.

I don’t know why I am even bothering to answer an ignorant person such as yourself. Now I know why I left this board awhile back. Do you yourself have a child with adhd?? No one ever suggested to me to put my child on meds. After many years of trying alternatives and seeing her quality of life deteriorate, WE decided to give meds a try and the proof was in the pudding so to speak. I don’t know where you get your studies but your scare tactics on parents doing what is best doesn’t intimidate me. I don’t focus on long term, I am dealing with the present, without meds there is no bright future without self-esteem, succeeding academically or socially. So your saying refrain from giving the child the best quality of life because they might develop this, that or the other down the road?? Allow them to continue to struggle in life because of the unknown , if anything at all ??

Actually, I have ADHD and I know of friends who have it. We were suggested to try meds by a loudmouth woman in social services years ago whose husband ran out on her just after Christmas. We rejected it: we do not regret it to this day. We have good stable civil service government jobs and we are not in a withdraw state of mind because the meds are not there. Anyway, did you ask your child how they feel about doing meds ? What kind of side effects do they have ? Appeitie loss ? vomiting ? Has their growth slowed in comparision to their peers ? How do they feel about their cardiovascular health ? If their quality of life deteriorated, maybe because the adults around them feel pills are the “fix” for every little problem in life. Like GA woman said: maybe we should not expect prefection in life. It wouldn’t hurt to think long-term now and then… It saves people headaches down the line. Your rationale sounds like the Medicare program. They think short term ever since 1965… Guess what ? Now, the future retirees cannot even count on the full medical insurance being there when they retire. This because the people just spent so much on every medical procedure they wanted the Government to spend on. No long term thinking… Now young folks re stuck with the bills.

No mamm… If you object to the stuff on the board, don’t read it.

The Schwab site has a very helpful article regarding how to evaluate alternative treatments for ADHD. I’ve posted this link before, but it strikes me that it might be helpful to do so again. http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=404

The following is an excerpt:
“Overstatement and exaggerated claims are red flags. Be suspicious of any product or treatment that is described as astonishing, miraculous or an amazing breakthrough. Legitimate health professionals do not use words like these. Nor do they boast of their success in treating huge numbers of patients.
Be suspicious too of any treatment that claims to treat a wide variety of ailments. Common sense tells us that the more grandiose the claim the less likely it is that there is any real merit behind it.
Do not rely on testimonials from people who say they have been helped by the product or the treatment. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for evidence and legitimate health professionals do not solicit testimonials from their patients.
Be skeptical about claims that a treatment is being suppressed or unfairly attacked by the medical establishment. Legitimate health professionals eagerly welcome new knowledge and better methods of treatment for their patients. They have no reason to oppose promising new approaches.”

Andrea

“

Diane, please visit the site http://www.adhd-biofeedback.com/. Dr. Phil Bate has a page where you can test yourself or child for food allergies. I had my son on all organic foods to found no change in his impulsive, inattentive, and hyper behaviors. He has always been allergic to anything red. I knew this when he was a baby and had to have antibiotics, he would end up in the hospital getting shots or IVs because he could not hold down the red (pink) colored medicines. The doctor never spotted this. I know now, and he is also allergic to milk, wheat, and ANYTHING red. Even if it is natural. Capri Sun was the drink of chioce. I had thought I was doing such a great thing packing his lunch everyday with whole wheat, natural pb&j, organic chips and capri suns. Wrong! Once tested for the allergies the culprit foods removed and he does a lot better. After letting him have the regular breakfast at school, and the strawberry milk at lunch, I ask his teacher to evaluate his behavior. Now, she sees first hand and is all for helping me and my child by helping to remind him of things he can and can not have. There are also clinics coming up all over the nation to try to get kids off medication that do not need it. 1 is in Texas founded by Dr. Mary Block. ” The Block Center” It has a web site you can visit also. She is also the author of “No More Ritalin” and “No more ADHD” The best thing about her is she was just a regular mom like you and I and ended up going to med school to find out herself the truth about ADHD.

I’ve read some of these posts. I mainly wanted to let you all know about a new med for ADHD that is NOT a stimulant– just approved by the FDA. We’ve had very positive results for my 11 yr old ADHD son on this med (since May 02, in clinical drug trial). AFter negative effects of being on a stimulant (for 5 yrs), he was able to go on Atomoxetine: here are his results: Self-esteem/confidence UP; cooperation UP; life POSITIVE!
(i do not check this message board regularly, so feel free to email me.)
Marcie
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for full article, go to website:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43588-2002Nov26.html
FDA Approves ADHD Drug Offering Fewer Side Effects
By Shankar Vedantam
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 27, 2002; Page A02

A new type of medicine to treat attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) was approved yesterday by the Food and Drug Administration, bringing with it the promise that the most common psychiatric disorder of childhood may be treated with fewer side effects — and less controversy.

Atomoxetine, which will be marketed under the brand name Strattera, will join in January such drugs as Ritalin that are prescribed by physicians. It will become the first medicine to treat ADHD that is not a stimulant.

Early studies have indicated that the new medicine does not cause insomnia, and is generally well tolerated by children, adolescents and adults. No comprehensive studies have compared the effectiveness of the new medicine against the older drugs, so it will be months before clinicians can establish which drug works best for each patient.

An important advantage of the new medicine is that it will be the first drug to treat ADHD that is not listed as a Schedule II drug, meaning that the FDA does not fear it will be abused……..

Here’s one I will be posting more……..
Ritalin Can Cause Cancer

AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks
By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition

Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug.

However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware.

Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children.

The mice developed a statistically significant incidence of liver abnormalities and tumors, including highly aggressive rare cancers known as hepatoblastomas. These findings are particularly disturbing as the tests were conducted on adult, rather than young mice which would be expected to be much more sensitive to carcinogenic effects.

The National Toxicology Program concluded that Ritalin is a “possible human carcinogen,” and recommended the need for further research. While still insisting that the drug is safe, the Food and Drug Administration admitted that these findings signal “carcinogenic potential,” and required a statement to this effect in the drug’s package insert. However, these inserts are not seen by parents or nurses.

The Physicians’ Desk Reference admits evidence on the carcinogenicity of Ritalin, now manufactured by Novartis, qualified by the statement that “the significance of these results is unknown,” apparently not recognizing that this is more alarming than reassuring. Apart from cancer risks, there is also suggestive evidence that Ritalin induces genetic damage in blood cells of Ritalin-treated children.

Concerns on Ritalin’s cancer risk are more acute in view of the millions of children treated annually with the drug and the escalating incidence of childhood cancer, by some 35% over the last few decades, quite apart from delayed risks of cancer in adult life. These risks are compounded by the availability of alternative safe and effective procedures, notably behavior modification and biofeedback.

There is no justification for prescribing Ritalin, even by highly qualified pediatricians and psychiatrists, unless parents have been explicitly informed of the drug’s cancer risks. Otherwise, prescribing Ritalin constitutes unarguable medical malpractice.

Ritalin can cause permanent brain damage!

(The following was printed in the British newspaper Telegraph on 12/11/2001 with the byline of David Derbyshire, Science Correspondent - Britain’s Telegraph newspaper.
RITALIN, the “chemical cosh” prescribed to about 25,000 British children, triggers changes to the brain long after its calming effects have worn off, scientists report today.

Researchers believe that Ritalin is safe, but say that questions remain about its long-term side effects. The changes, which are not fully understood, are similar to those occurring with other forms of amphetamine and also cocaine.

Ritalin is a mild amphetamine prescribed to children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It works on the central nervous system as a stimulant, and as well as calming hyperactive youngsters, can leave some feeling lethargic, depressed or withdrawn.

In America, where up to 40 per cent of pupils in some schools are on medication for ADHD, there are concerns that the drug is given inappropriately to naturally boisterous, but otherwise healthy, children.

Last year, the Government’s watchdog, the National Institute for Clinical Excellence, recommended that Ritalin be made available on the NHS for children with serious hyperactivity.

Now scientists at the University at Buffalo, New York, have shown that the drug methylphenidate, the generic form of Ritalin, may have long-term effects on brain function.

Dr Joan Baizer, who is due to present the study at the Society for Neuroscience in San Diego, California, said: “Clinicians consider Ritalin to be short-acting. When the active dose has worked its way through the system, they consider it ‘all gone’.

“Our research with gene expression in an animal model suggests that it has the potential for causing long-lasting changes in brain cell structure and function.”

“Children have been given Ritalin daily for many years, and it is extremely effective and beneficial, but it’s not quite as simple as a short-acting drug. We need to look at it more closely.”

Although the changes are similar to those seen with cocaine, there is no evidence that the low doses given to children are likely to lead to addiction.

Br Baizer added: “Ritalin does appear to be safe when used properly, but it is still important to ask what it is doing in the brain.”

High doses of amphetamine and cocaine switch on certain genes in particular brain cells which alter the way nerve cells work. One of these genes is called c-fos and is known to be involved in movement and motivation in part of the brain known as the striatum.

The team wanted to see if the drug caused c-fos activation in the same parts of the brain, and at the same levels, as the other drugs.

Using young rats as an animal model, they gave one group sweetened milk containing a relatively high dose of methylphenidate. The dose was designed to mimic the effects of Ritalin on children. The other group was given ordinary sweetened milk.

After 90 minutes, the brains of both groups were analyzed for the presence of c-fos. Results showed there were many more neurons with c-fos activity in the brains of rats given methylphenidate, particularly in the striatum, than in the brains of control rats.

Dr Baizer said: “These data do suggest that there are effects of Ritalin on cell function that outlast the short term and we should sort that out. There is no indication of tolerance, but we have no idea if there is adaptation to the effects.”

The team will now try to find out if other genes are turned on in response to Ritalin. The Department of Health said that 14,000 prescriptions are made out for Ritalin each month.

Parents’ Crusade Over Children’s Tragic Deaths From Psychiatric Drugs

(U.S. Newswire)

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 4 /U.S. Newswire/ — Lawrence Smith, a Michigan father, and Vicky Dunkle, a Pennsylvania mother, have recently joined forces in a crusade to expose the fraud of child psychiatric diagnoses and the dangers of the drugs being prescribed. Mrs. Dunkle has filed a lawsuit against the psychiatrist who prescribed the deadly drugs to her daughter, and both parents exemplify the increasing problem faced by many parents today: being coerced by school personnel to drug their children, and never being warned about the documented risks of the drugs prescribed to “treat” them. For Mrs. Dunkle and Smith, the result was the tragic and needless deaths of their children. Smith states, “We hope to God that other families will be spared the suffering and heartbreak that has been caused to our families, and many others.”

On March 21, 2000, Matthew Smith, 14, died from a heart attack while skateboarding. The coroner determined his death was caused by the long-term use of the stimulant forcibly prescribed to him through the school.

“It all started for Matthew in the first grade, when the school social worker kept calling us in for meetings, complaining that Matthew was ‘fidgeting’ and ‘easily distracted,’ said Smith. “She told my wife and I that if we wouldn’t consider drugging our son, after the school had diagnosed him with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), that we could be charged for neglecting his educational and emotional needs.” After also being told that the stimulant was safe and effective, the Smiths acceded to the pressure.

“If we hadn’t been pressured by the school system, Matthew would still be alive today,” says Smith. “I cannot go back and change things for us at this point. However, I hope to God my story and information will reach the hearts and minds of many families, so they can make an educated decision.”

Mrs. Dunkle agrees. In 1999 when her daughter, Shaina, was in second grade, Mrs. Dunkle was pressured to have her evaluated for ADHD by the school psychologist because she was “too active” and “talked out of turn.” The young mother did not want to drug her child, but bowed to the constant pressure from the psychologist and agreed to take her daughter to a psychiatrist. After a 30-minute evaluation, Shaina was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed a psychiatric drug. Mrs. Dunkle was never warned about the side effects of the drugs.

On Feb. 26, 2001, Shaina began convulsing in her doctor’s office and died in her mother’s arms. She was 10-years-old. An autopsy revealed that Shaina’s death was due to toxic levels of the psychiatric drug prescribed her. Mrs. Dunkle has now filed a suit against the treating psychiatrist, alleging the doctor increased her daughter’s drug dose until it reached toxic levels. “My Shaina was a ray of sunshine, she always smiled and gave her all no matter how hard. If I had followed my heart instead of the advice of ‘professionals’ that thought they knew my daughter better than I did, my precious Shaina would be alive now,” says Mrs. Dunkle.

On Sept. 26, the House Committee on Government Reform held a high profile hearing to examine the increasing number of children being diagnosed with subjective “attention deficit” disorders, and the fact that parents are being denied full information about the lack of scientific validity behind these disorders, and the risks of the drugs prescribed for them.

Bruce Wiseman, the U.S. President of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), a psychiatric watchdog, addressed the hearing, stating, “Parents are only being offered drug solutions because childhood labeling and drugging is a profit-driven industry: In 2000, the sales of stimulants prescribed for ADHD reached $758 million. Instead of supporting what is legal drug pushing, our governments, schools and doctors must ensure that all-not carefully selected-information is made available to parents in order for them to make an informed choice about their child’s educational and medical needs.”

Today, Smith gathers support for legislation that would mandate informed consent requirements to safeguard parents’ and children’s’ rights. “The violation of parents’ rights occurs when they are not informed about the unscientific nature of so-called disorders such as ADHD or the risks of the treatments involved (drugs),” Smith stated. “I am hoping that Republicans and Democrats will work together to fight this horrific drug war that threatens the future of American children.”

Psychiatric Drug Facts
Peter R. Breggin, M.D.
What your doctor may not know about:
How psychiatric drugs really work
Adverse drug effects on the brain and mind
The role of the FDA
Drug company practices
Recent medical and legal developments
Electroshock and psychosurgery

Last updated October 25, 2002

CHANGE OF ADDRESS FOR THE BREGGINS
As of November 12, 2002 our new address is:

Peter R. Breggin, M.D. and Ginger Breggin
101 East State Street, PMB 112
Ithaca, New York 14850-5543
Phone 607 272 5328

Dr. Breggin is not retiring. From his Ithaca, New York office he will continue to see patients, and to provide clinical and forensic consultations. Until Nov. 8, 2002 Dr. Breggin may be contacted at 301 652 5580.

Peter R. Breggin, M.D. began in the full time private practice of psychiatry in 1968. Dr. Breggin has been informing the professions, media and the public about the potential dangers of drugs, electroshock, psychosurgery, involuntary treatment, and the biological theories of psychiatry for over three decades. He is the author of dozens of scientific articles and more than fifteen professional books about psychiatric medication, the FDA and drug approval process, the evaluation of clinical trials, and standards of care in psychiatry and related fields.
In 1972 he founded The International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology (ICSPP) as a nonprofit research and educational network. The Center is c oncerned with the impact of mental health theory and practices upon individual well-being, personal freedom, and family and community values. He also founded the peer-review journal, Ethical Human Sciences and Services .
For thirty years Dr. Breggin has served as a medical expert in many civil and criminal suits including product liability suits against the manufacturers of psychiatric drugs. His work provided the scientific basis for the original combined Prozac suits and for the more recent Ritalin class action suits.
Dr. Breggin’s background includes Harvard College, Case Western Reserve Medical School, a teaching fellowship at Harvard Medical School, a two-year staff appointment to the National Institute of Mental Health, and a faculty appointment to the Johns Hopkins University Department of Counseling.

Why to Avoid Ritalin®:*

Ritalin Side Effects
from the Physicians’ Desk Reference®*

“RITALIN-SR® methylphenidate hydrochloride USP sustained-release tablets.

WARNINGS - Ritalin should not be used in children under six years, since safety and efficacy in this age group have not been established.

Sufficient data on safety and efficacy of long-term use of Ritalin in children are not yet available. Although a casual relationship has not been established, suppression of growth (ie, weight gain, and/or height) has been reported with the long-term use of stimulants in children. Therefore, patients requiring long-term therapy should be carefully monitored.

ADVERSE REACTIONS
Nervousness and insomnia are the most common adverse reactions but are usually controlled by reducing dosage and omitting the drug in the afternoon or evening. Other reactions include hypersensitivity (including skin rash, urticaria, fever, arthralgia, exfoliative dermatitis, erythema multiforme with histopathological findings of necrotizing vasculitis, and thrombocytopenic purpura); anorexia; nausea; dizzines; palpitations; headache; dyskinesia; drowsiness; blood pressure and pulse changes, both up and down; tachycardia; angina; cardiac arrhythmia; abdominal pain; weight loss during prolonged therapy. There have been rare reports of Tourette’s syndrome. Toxic psychosis has been reported. Although a definite casual relationship has not been established, the following have been reported in patients taking this drug: leukopenia and/or anemia; a few instances of scalp hair loss. In children, loss of appetite, abdominal pain, weight loss during prolonged therapy, insomnia, and tachycardia may occur more frequently; however, any of the other adverse reactions listed above may also occur.

DRUG DEPENDENCE
Ritalin should be given cautiously to emotionally unstable patients, such as those with a history of drug dependence or alcoholism, because such patients may increase dosage on their own initiative. Chronically abusive use can lead to marked tolerance and psychic dependence with varying degrees of abnormal behavior. Frank psychotic episodes can occur, especially with parental abuse. Careful supervision is required during drug withdrawal, since severe depression as well as the effects of chronic over activity can be unmasked. Long-term follow-up may be required because of the patient’s basic personality disturbances.”

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an excerpt from “The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs”*…

“STIMULANT ANTIDEPRESSANT DRUGS
Depression may also be treated with drugs called psychostimulants. Use of such drugs is reserved for only two situations: (1) patients who have failed to respond to at least two other antidepressants and psychotherapy and who are seriously depressed, and (2) patients with serious and usually terminal medical illnesses such as cancer or AIDS who are depressed and too sick to take other kinds of antidepressants.

The reason for these restrictions is that the stimulant drugs are addictive. They include amphetamines, sometimes called “speed” or “uppers,” methylphenidate (Ritalin), and pemoline (Cylert). The drugs produce a short-term mood elevation even in people who are not depressed. College students take them to stay awake all night and finish term papers.

In most people the effects of these stimulant drugs are short-lived and there is often a letdown or “crash” after they wear off. During this “crash” the patient can feel very depressed, sleepy, and sluggish. Furthermore, and very much unlike the other drugs discussed so far in this chapter, stimulant drugs have the potential to induce “tolerance.” People who abuse amphetamines and other stimulants—usually in attempts to lose weight or stay awake for prolonged periods—often find that a dose that had worked for a while is suddenly ineffective and they need a higher dose. They then become “tolerant” to the higher dose and have to increase the dose again. Soon, the person is addicted to the drug. Stopping it suddenly leads to a severe withdrawal reaction characterized by bad depression and extreme fatigue. Suicides have been reported in people who suddenly stop taking amphetamines.

Given all these problems, why even mention the stimulant drugs? Simply because they are the only drugs that work for some depressed patients. A very small group of usually chronically depressed patients seems to be resistant to every other treatment for depression. These people usually function at a fairly low level relative to their ability and they feel sad and blue all of the time. They complain of fatigue, low interest in life, and inability to concentrate. Many say they have been depressed since childhood.

Another small group of patients with very serious medical problems also develops depression. Sometimes the medical problems they have make other antidepressant drugs unsafe, or the medical problems so magnify the side effects of the other antidepressants that the dying patient is made even more uncomfortable. Stimulant drugs may actually be the safest choice in this situation.

For these two groups of patients stimulant drugs may be the only answer, even though the patient will probably become addicted. This is not to be taken lightly. The decision to place a patient on a stimulant drug for depression is serious and must be done only after all other efforts are declared either unsafe or ineffective. The patient must understand that he will probably become addicted to the medication and that he should never stop taking it abruptly.”

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an excerpt “The People’s Pharmacy” Avon Books, and St. Martin’s Press (1976)*:

“Some health professionals fear that these medications may end up being over prescribed. Dr. Carl Kline, an expert in the field of learning disabilities from the University of British Columbia, has this to say, ‘It is my belief that if these drugs were outlawed, children would not be at all deprived of essential medication, but that doctors would be forced to make more accurate diagnoses and seek better means of handling the hyperactive behavior of a certain small percentage of their little patients.’”

Do these drugs make a difference in the long-term outcome of the minimal brain dysfunction? The above referenced book goes on to say…

“Until recently, the most important question concerning Ritalin or Amphetamine administration has not been asked. Do these drugs make a difference in the long-term outcome of the minimal brain dysfunction? A comprehensive examination of this subject carried out at the Montreal Children’s Hospital discovered a startling fact. At the end of five years, hyperkinetic children who received drugs (either Ritalin or Chloropromazine) did not differ significantly from children who had not received. Although it appeared that hyperactive kids treated with Ritalin were initially more manageable, the degree of improvement and emotional adjustment was essentially identical at the end of five years to that seen in a group of kids who had received no medication at all.

Before parents throw their hands up in despair, they might want to consider another approach to the treatment of hyperkinesis. Dr. Feingold has come up with a revolutionary new treatment for this disorder. Dr. Feingold believes that diet may have a lot to do with the problem in the first place.”

hey li,
i see you are still going strong, ive been in PA dealing with a specialists about my sons dianosis and things are looking good, it is my full intensions to battle my ex wife about the meds, especially after having our meeting with the doctor that actualy told us of some of the side effects both short and long term. now the Doctor wasnt pro meds or agianst them all the way either, which set my mind at ease.
No that im am saying im going to battle the use of drug in which my ex wife put my son on, that doesnt mean im going to judge or ridicule othersabout the decisions they make, thier conscience does that enough. i want to show people that there are options
and i will do that until no one listens.
By the way, the Doctor that is seeing my son, finally got the whole picture about my sons health issues and home life. There are many things that mimic adhd and this Dr. will have to prove to me that there wasnt anything mimicing before i will except the adhd dianosis, she seemed to be leaning towards emotional problems and possible depression. not sure thats any better but it will be a dianosis from second opinion

http://pediatrics.about.com/library/weekly/aa112702a.htm

Li Mingh,

As an adult with LD/ADD who also has depression, I would have been dead without psych meds due to committing suicide. So there wouldn’t have been any long term future for me to think about because I would have been in the ground. And please, no comments about stimulants causing suicidal behavior as it was the combination of zoloft and adderall that finally stopped the suicidal thoughts completely.

Also, many drugs other than psych meds have side effects. But I don’t see anyone on these boards advocating they be banned.

By the way, I am not advocating either way as to whether parents should put their kids on drugs or not. That is a personal decision that I have no business commenting on. But I felt the need to respond because I am so tired of the extreme anti drug bias that seems to permeate these boards.

I agree that drugs aren’t the perfect solution and there are risks to that choice. Trust me, I am in the 1% side effect category and know that better than anyone. But sometimes, the alternative is alot worse and that’s what so many of you seemed to have lost sight of.

PT

pt,
My god, i cant believe you are on both of them, and i cant believe that your doctor or whom ever dianosed you with add when you have such a depression with suicide tendencies. It isnt any wonder you can think of anything and no wonder you dont think of suicide anymore, you are so drugged up it isnt funny.
I think you should fix the depression thing first.
I wish you all my best and hope you dont feel like suicide is the option. If you should ever need to talk come talk here!!! or just read some of this stuff that will make you feel better, sometimes it makes me feel good that others are like myself, and im not alone.
So remember you are not ALONE!!!!!!

PT, you might not see any posts here regarding the dangers of other medications but they are out there. Since this board is mainly set up for LDs, and ADDs, the stimulants are the drug of chioce here. I believe it’s Lipitor, the clorestoral lowering drug that is highly being debating now on other sites, as it is extremely dangerous and most specifically concerns of the damage to the liver. Just a note to let you know, I am more down on the food industry than the medical industry. So, don’t get me started on the pop tart breakfast’ and the luncheables of America these days. I am for good health overall. The key to well being.

Concerned,

I am so drugged up that I held a job for four and a half years in a very tough environment and would have continued to have had it if the company didn’t have financial difficulties. Yeah, and I continue to have so many difficulties that when I did temp work, the President invited me to apply for a job with his company after one week of working there.

Yeah, those troubles are so bad that companies keep asking for me on temp assignments. They are also so bad that I about to after many false starts complete a college course at the Master’s Level.

I apologize to the rest of the board for my sarcasm but Concerned, as Diane said about another post, I am wasting my time even replying as it is clear that that alot of the folks who are against medication have no interest in clearly discussing the issues.

Concerned, you don’t know my medical history and therefore, you have no business commenting on what my doctor did or didn’t do.

Enough said.

PT

First of all woman, you came on here and told us about your screw up problems, i simply make an opinion of it and im so sorry you are on all the drugs you are and i am glad you are not sucking the welfare system dry. As far as you shouldnt be replying to my message, well why did you? I truely apologize that i came off strong in the beginning of my last message, apparently you are stuck on that part of it. More than likely alot of people were wondering the same thing i was , why are you on anti depressants and meds for add, atleast the 4 people that was here reading your health issues you invited everyone to read.
Again i do apologize you took what i said rude or that i came across that way.
Hopefully you will learn not to take everything to heart.
Take care
Concerned

PT, I am glad you have found success by getting proper medical treatment. From what I can take, you are an adult and have every right to do what works best for you. As I clearly stated, I am not on an anti-drug witch hunt towards anybody. The main things I have posted are clips, ads and aritcles that I find very informative for helping parents make that God like decision. It seems to me that from the posts I have read, no parent really feels comfortable about the fact that they have put their child on medication to see benefits, and they have all asks for alternative information whether or not they have tried them before, I do not know. Parents have asks for what works for others. I have posted what worked for us. The only people that should be offended are the ones that say they have tried everything else and are lying. Everything I have suggested is that parents need to use drugs as a last resort. Even if they do not see a difference in the 45 minutes it takes a pill to work, doesn’t mean it is not worth a shot. Also, people do not need to feel they can get all the truth about these things without having an open mind and looking for answers and not just believe what their doctor tells them. I truly believe that if parents would demand more nutritional approaches then the supply and demand factor would encourage the outcome of a cure. The thing I said about making straight As, that is directed towards parents that are never satisfied with their childs abilities and should not bother you.

At last! A voice of sanity! You’re absolutely right. Sometimes you’re given a bad situation. You have a choice— deal with it or pretend it isn’t there. Pretending it isn’t there may actually be worse for you than what is required to deal with it. It sounds as if you made some good choices.

Your post was refreshingly well written. Your thoughts were organized, and you effectively came to the point. In contrast, the anti-med ADD-ers ramble on with disorganized tirades and never actually make any point except that they’re very angry that anyone would think there was something wrong with them or their children (if they have any— they often forget to mention them). They try to convince us they are doing fine, but they get so frustrated with not being able to express themselves that they resort to name calling and petty bickering over stupid stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with the topic, but they’ve forgotten what the topic was anyway so it doesn’t matter to them.

Obviously, not medicating themselves hasn’t worked for these folks even though they are tireless in trying to convince themselves and us that they don’t need it. Apparently using all the alternate treatments that they promote didn’t work either because their problems are still very much in evidence. The prospect of being in such a confused state perpetually would be unappealing enough to me that I would deal with it, but it’s their choice to pretend there’s not a problem.

My problem with all this is that kids could be denied the help they need, and have a limited future because of someone not being able to “deal with it”. I hope your post makes people stop and think about what they’re doing to themselves and theiir kids when they elect to do nothing.

That’s why anyone on Lipitor with a functioning brain has a blood test evey three months to check for any problems with the liver. Would you prefer they die of a heart attack because they might have a liver problem if they took Lipitor?

Some drugs carry a risk. That’s true. But the risk of not using them may outweigh the risk of using them. You have to use your brain to discern the difference and make wise decisions. You need to understand that what you think is a wise health decison for you may not be a wise health decision for someone else, so that’s why other people’s health decisons are made by them. This is as true for Adderall as it is for Lipitor.

I have absolute proof that medicine is a beneficial tool in the treatment of ADHD. In my family 3 male cousins the this disease and 2 second cousins have this disorder. The three older boys were never treated because thier parents feared what the “neighbors ” would think. These children were in constant trouble and labeled as bad boys because they couldn’t control thier action or emotions. They were whipped often and told to “use your head”.
Academic sucess was never acheived. You see when you are in a small town and the teachers speak about how horrible a kid is.achild may as well forget about any slack from any other teacher.!!!!!
I didnt care what the neighbors thought and my son is taking 10mg of adderall every day. He’ a honor student and plays golf and on the ISTEP test he scored an 8th grade level in science and math. Sorry to disagree with you but adderall is much better then a belt or any food could do.

You still haven’t said wheather or not your kids are cured of ADD because they took meds.

Aw ! The solution is to get out of the Boom Docks… The metropolitan areas are the place to be for educational choices. I still think if you apply the steel fist or the motto Strangle the rooster to frighten the monkey, you get better results than trying to talk people to behave. Now seriously…. I do not know if medication is the answer. I think it is far better if you grew up in this country than i you immigrated here with no family support or unfamiliarity with english. Your parennts do not have to work three jobs to make it. You have more time to agitate with the school system. Keeping oneself busy is the way to do it. You do not have time to be depressed or groad over it. The permissive society is what leads to troublemaking not a lackof Addreall.

Tawnya, I read your post a couple of times, I just have to ask, don’t you agree that even with the medication, sometimes you still need to use a belt every once in a while don’t you? I mean, Aderall didn’t replace whipping your kids right? You almost have me sold!!!! I guess I am just one of those hard headed individuals. My son is #1 in his age group in the state junior golf legaue, he makes all As and Bs at school. He is the most honest and non sneaky child you would ever meet. He found 15 dollars on the parking lot at school and turned it in. They let him keep it! I was kind of offended when his pediatrician told me that if I didn’t medicate him that he would drop out of school by age 16 and never amount to anything. I may be totally wrong but when this man that really does not know me or my son told me that, I felt he was questioning my ability to raise a child that would hold the family and christian values I had thought him all his life. I hate that your cousins didn’t do anything sooner. (Medication or Alternative) Did they eat a lot of junk food? ps. if you took all the poisons out of junk food and put them in a bowl, at the end of 1 year you would have a lethal dose of toxins.

Ga mom,
whether you agree with me or not, I just have to say that no one can actually tell you that your child would be a high school drop out.
I strongly believe if you raise your children well, they carry positive moral values. Honey, trust me if your son gets good grades, is honest and actually cares thats someone lost money enough to do the right thing and turn it in , you did your job. I applaud parents that take the time to raise children. My hat is off to you!!!!!

Sincerely,
Concerned

Dear Tawnya,
You wont find any argument from me that sometime meds work for some people, although i would certainly think you would not medicate you child because he needs dicipline. Im not saying to belt your child, but ive been wondering if thats not the real problem today.
I feel some parents dont have the time or the patience to dicipline thier children and maybe the know how to do it with out rage. Im a parent that was raised in the “belt era” if you will, and no meds were offered to me as a replacement, which i am so glad, I am a intelligent upper middle class person that turned out just fine if not better for the belt.
I know, the belt such an ugly word and if you are in your mid 30’s (shhh) and up you have been there, if you dicipline without rage, the belt can be a good tool also.
That of course is your decision and I would not want to have the complicated decision to med or whip.
BUT some of these kids now days , well need an ass whipping. You know what I mean, lol
Take care,
Concerned

WEI,
Hello again, I wanted to tell you the very last sentence you wrote is very true and probably (in my opinion)the best advice you gave so far and that I feel the need to repeat it “The permissive society is what leads to troublemaking not a lack of adderall”
Although I would have keep it simple and left out the “not a lack of adderall” sometimes short and sweet leaves a bitter taste, lol
thanks,
concerned

I really am uneasy about people using major medical problems, for example heart attacks to promote the use of meds to increase a childs attention span, behavior problems or to treat add/adhd.
There is no comparison, there is such a major difference, your child will not die if you choose not to medicate. If you choose not to take drugs for a heart attack, well we both know thats not good, regardless of the side effects. There simply isnt any fact suggesting this either. People if you choose to medicate for behavior problems fine, but please stop using sorry “what if” situations that have no comparisons.

once a well writen post then this one.
This is a story line pro- med post if i havent seen one.
Dont belittle those who choose not to med because you choose a different route, maybe just maybe others want the dicision making to be theirs too.
I certainly dont care if you post and what you post i will read what ever (apparently) but pushing and shoving is not needed. Please if a parent chooses not to medicate, please take into consideration they maybe doing what they feel is best for thier child.
Julie, Julie, Julie.
bewildered,
concerned

You know there’s no cure. Are you cured of ADD because you didn’t take meds? Are your kids cured of ADD without meds? What alternative treatment do you think has has cured you? Hey, wake up call. You’re not cured. You’re the poster child for why you should medicate! Whatever you’ve been doing to help yourself clearly hasn’t worked, and you’re the evidence of it. Why try to drag everyone down because you’re afraid to get up?

Wei,

If you take antihistamines are you cured of allergies or do you just experience symptom relief? Of course not. Instead of having to stay inside feeling miserable you can go outside and participate in life. If you don’t take your Allegra, however, you’ll be feeling terrible again soon. The same is true of medications for ADHD. No reputable person would claim a neurological condition such as ADHD is cured by taking medication. Instead, the meds simply address the symptoms of the condition. When the meds wear off, the symptoms return. The same is true of dietary interventions, for example. If a child who is sensitive to red dye eliminates it from his diet, he may experience symptom relief. If he eats a bowl of Fruit Loops the symptoms will return. Even therapies such as Interactive Metronome do not claim to cure ADHD. Instead, the theory is that symptoms are relieved by creating new neural pathways that will allow the child to have better attention-paying skills (among other things). The most important thing about whatever treatment you may choose is the effect that relieving symptoms, even temporarily, has on a child’s ability to learn better, more effective strategies for dealing with school and with life. ADHD is not a virus, infection or other condition that can be cured. It also is not curse or hopeless or made-up condition. Instead, it is a neurological problem, and (at least at this point in medicine) like other such problems it can be improved but not cured.

Yours for a civil, well-reasoned debate,

Andrea

You can make whatever decision you want. I’m not pro-med or anti-med. I’m after what works. Some non-med solutions have only worked for my son in conjunction with medication; some not at all. If people can get them to work, more power to them. They haven’t worked for you, but you don’t see how your life could be any better than it is right now. In your case, ignorance is bliss. Let’s hope it’s not contagious.

Beating your child is an alternate treatment for ADD?? You feel it worked for you, and glad that your parents beat you. So you feel it’s ok to abuse a child as long as it’s without rage? Especially if you’re an intelligent middle class person? After all, you feel it’s for their own good. I think you’re terribly misinformed about the nature of ADD and what constitutes child abuse.

No wonder you’ve been vague on the non-med ADD treatment that you recommend as an alternative to drugs. Who needs Ritalin when you can just beat the ADD out of them? And you really think it worked for you?

I don’t believe for a minute that it did help you, or that it will help your son. It only made you want to beat your son, and will probably make him want to beat his son. No good comes from child abuse, and it’s certainly no cure for ADD.

Julie, I never once said that you should in any means beat your children , why would you when you can drug them, I myself choose not to belt, but dont pass judgement on those who do. When a parent takes the time to give a wholesome and caring home with disipline the child does turn out to be a well mannered and respected adult, and yes sometimes its necessary to use stimulants, but not in all cases.
as far as im concerned you are doing just as much damage drugging the child as you would be abusing him, but that is my opinion.

Thank you for this new info. My daughters teacher thinks she is ADD
but we are testing other things first.I was so afraid of putting her on these other meds. This new info gives me some hope. Im happy that this is working out for your son. Good luck!

I agree with you. If you were blind you would have training to learn how to live with your disability. That is what you should look for, for your child.

Mamm:

He is not saying beat your child ! The point is reason with the child. However, if he ademantly refuses to go and do anything ie sit and vegetate at home… Then you give them no choice and tell them what to do ! China has fewer instances of school disturbance…. The kids are better behaved and study harder then here. Perhaps, we can learn something from the way they run a school system. Permissiveness has taken hold over here too much. Meet the kids halfway but with steel teeth.

What a spam-o-rama of misinformation. I have been sitting on my hands as I read some of the ridiculous posts here lately, but alas my ADHD got the best of me and I couldn’t be quiet any longer.

Epstein, the one who claims Ritalin causes cancer is encouraging a boycott of that horrible organization The American Cancer Society - go figure. The others (Breggin, CCHR/Scientology) are agenda, not research based views. Did you know that CCHR thinks psychiatry is a sham - all those people with bi-polar, depression, PTSD, etc. must be imagining their illnesses. CCHR lacks credibility, nor do they have substantiated peer-reviewed medical research to back their claims - period. Also, a claim or opinion should not be confused with medical research.

The British spin on the brain changes is quite the opposite of what the conclusions were here - it was viewed as good news since ADHD is an irregularly functioning brain (dopaminine, neurotransmitters, etc.). ADHD treated with medication showed brain patterns closer to non-ADHD brains over time. This one I could be blasted for detail accuracy b/c I have memory problems, but do the research yourself. BTW, although I love the Brits and frequently am over there, I am grateful that I’m not raising my dyslexic ADHD’er over there - they can be percieved as a bit behind us in LD’s and ADHD and they are often still stigmatized there.

The PDR is the only thing posted that was credible. But as another poster pointed out, risk/benefit should be considered for all medications. Note those were adverse reactions, meaning a small percentage of people may experience one or more of those adverse reactions. For myself, I’ve had adverse reactions to several (non-ADHD) medications like rashes, itches, swelling, breathing, agitation - so guess what? - those are noted in my chart and my doctor no longer prescribes them to me. That’s what good doctors do - supervise medical treatment.

The 1976 reference to minimal brain dysfunction is irrelevant and outdated - so much has been learned about ADHD in the last 28 years - it wasn’t worth reading.

Lastly, for the record 1) I do not believe in corporal punishment and 2) Importantly, people are MEDICATED (not drugged) for ADHD. Doctors who DRUG as opposed to medicate their patients should have their licenses taken away. Don’t you agree?

Deciding whether or not to medicate your child is a difficult and personal decision for any parent to make. Spamming a board with opinion and misinformation is unhelpful to those seeking information and support.

Actually, the impulsivity in ADHD can cause significant safety concerns including life/death situations for some ADHD children and teens.

Untreated ADHD (and no I don’t mean medication only) can cause significant difficulties like self esteem issues, social skill development problems, just to name a few - which can lead to larger problems throughout life.

Please don’t imply that you are giving permission to people to choose to medicate behavhior problems away - it is not as simple as that.

“I really am uneasy about people using major medical problems, for example heart attacks to promote the use of meds to increase a childs attention span, behavior problems or to treat add/adhd.
There is no comparison, there is such a major difference, your child will not die if you choose not to medicate. If you choose not to take drugs for a heart attack, well we both know thats not good, regardless of the side effects. There simply isnt any fact suggesting this either. People if you choose to medicate for behavior problems fine, but please stop using sorry “what if” situations that have no comparisons.”