Looking for ideas to improve attention and organization...

Dr. Amen has a book called Healing ADD that has many ideas—behavioral, supplements as well as medication—that you might find helpful. Two things we’ve done after reading his book are give ds a multivitamin and a higher protein diet. We’d given up on vitamins when our youngest at age 2 climbed on the counter and finished off the bottle of vitamins that were stored on the top shelf of the cupboard! And ds is a big breakfast eater but all carbos. So now I am handing out sliced turkey, ham, beef, cheese to go with the cereal!!

Exercise is another thing that is supposed to help focus—maybe a morning walk? Or involvement in a sport? Amen talks about kids who did fine as long as it was basketball season….

And sleep. My son’s attention is very sensitive to sleep. It is lights out at our house at 8:30 p.m.

Beth

The type of behavioral modification that works for my son is having a routine that he can rely on. He needs to have the process spelled out for him and have it be the same every day. Also a rule is a rule. Rules are not bent or broken there are strict limits on what I will tolerate.

For instance, homework gets written on the board and as soon it is written the children copy it, (if it was put up there for children to copy at their leasure it just won’t happen.) My son then has to put the books he needs for the homework assignment in his bag immediately after he copies the assignment. It is a routine he can count on and doesn’t need to think about. If he had to put the books in his bag at some point during the day it just won’t happen.

He needs many such routines. I have known this for years. I was doing behavioral modification before I even knew what the words behavioral modification meant. When he was little he was very tough to handle and I had to read tons of parenting books. Behavioral modification is really all about consistancy and routines.

We are doing all those things too. Added back the multivitamin, with flaxseed oil too, and we too have a very structured sleep schedule. My ds is in bed at 9, which has evolved from 8 as he’s gotten older. I’ll look for Amen’s book today. Thanks!

Another book I have that has lots of good ideas in it is called Beyond Ritalin by Gerber, Gerber, and Spizman. It is a very balanced approach. It has a chapter called before you try medication. I was very disapointed when I read the book to find out that organization is not one thing that is generally influenced by medication!! But there are ideas in the book.

Beth

for rewarding him for turnng in homework. Agree on a reward and how many points it will take. Get a picture of the reward. (We have a scanner and use that but you could do a photocopy instead.) Cut the picture up into puzzle pieces of the same number as the points it takes to get the reward. Put them in a baggy for the teacher and give a baggy for your son. Every time he remembers his homework, he gets a puzzle piece to put in his baggy and take home. Have an undisturbed place at home where he can assemble the puzzle piece by piece. When he has completed the puzzle, he gets the reward. This is the only point system that worked for my ds—puzzle pieces are much more tangible than points, which resulted in greater motivation as he wanted to see the puzzle completed. (Of course it is more work than just giving a sticker or a tally mark, but then what isn’t with these dcs?) We didn’t try this with a teacher involved, just for getting things done at home. Ds’s rewards were all Eyewitness books—he has a pretty big collection now. He just entered seventh grade and magically he now does almost all his homework on his own—with no rewards.

..

First of all, don’t dispair! My son used to be incredibly dis-organized but as he has gotten older and learned HOW to be organized, he is much better.

As previously suggested, ROUTINE seems to be #1 in my son’s case! If you repeat something enough times, it will sink in.

Does your son have an assignment notebook? If not, get one and have him record his assignments each day. Have the teacher initial it to make sure the stuff is recorded properly. ( Most teachers will work with you on this. ) Or, maybe the teacher can use a site such as www.schoolnotes.com for homework. Or, have a classmate that your son can call to get the homework.

Where is your son seated in class? Certain seats work better for kids. For example, my 11 year old sits right by the teacher in English. When she notices that he’s zoning out, she can quickly bring him back by either speaking to him, or tapping him on the shoulder, etc. (This doesn’t have to be obvious to other students, either.)

Sandra Rief’s “ADD/ADHD Checklist” is a wonderful book for parents and teachers, full of simple and good advice.

Julie and Linda are offering some good advice here. ADHD kids, just like most kids, want to please their teachers and parents by remembering to write down and hand in their homework. It often isn’t really a question of motivation. Instead, the child IS motivated to do what we want but has great difficulty generating a plan to accomplish it, let alone remembering to carry out the plan at the crucial moment. A reward alone probably won’t help because the problem likely is not the result of a lack of motivation or incentive but instead is a symptom of the underlying brain difficulty. Rewards will work better in combination with giving the child a very specific set of instructions to follow and reminding and reminding and reminding, at home and at school, until it becomes a routine. Rewards are good motivators, but they won’t help a kid who doesn’t know how to get organized in the first place.

Andea

My son, who is also disorganized, has a teacher this year who rewards them for having their planners signed by parents. I am amazed that he now remembers to ask me about it every morning. I think rewards can work if the child is capable but maybe it isn’t natural or easy for them. That is the secret—finding a way to make it doable for them, I think.

My son, who I have been trying to get to use a homework folder, still sometimes forgets it at school. When I asked him about it, he told me “that it is hard for me to remember things when I first start having to do them.” I thought that was telling and speaks, like others, to the importance of routine.

Beth

Hi Beth,

What those authors say about stimulants not improving organization surprises me greatly because initially, they had a great effect on my organizational abilities. Perhaps, kids are different so of course, I don’t want to make assumptions when I might not be correct.

They could also may be talking about the fact that stimulants lose their effectiveness and of course, the organizational abilities are going to diminish unless the person has worked to adapt some compensatory mechanisms.

By the way, so there are no misunderstandings, this is not a pro meds post. My purpose in writing this message was to express surprise with the author’s position because of my own experiences.

PT

You are all so correct, and helpful as usual. I think this whole question about motivation is what has me feeling a little disappointed with my son’s teacher, who despite the best of intentions, seems to think motivation alone is going to fix the problem. He was making a big deal about getting him to copy the homework assignments from the board and I had to point out that due to his perceptual problems copying is difficult. The teacher immediately agreed its the followup thru that is important , not the quality of the copying or spelling. But I still get the feeling that he doesn’t get that lack of follow through for my kid is neurological too!!! Sigh - its so frustrating. This teacher, who is so great in so many ways, just doesn’t get it.

SO to get back on topic here - I should keep reminding my ds until the routine becomes routine. In other words, its not a memory test. I bet the teacher won’t see it that way…

We put in my son’s iep things like preferential seating, a study buddy (ph # in case he forgets a book or assignment) as well as TEACHER will assist in the parent/school communication log (known as the planner). We also have requested the teachers ask specifically for homework, with the block schedule, my son would not remember he had done homework much less remember to turn it in. This year they aren’t using the block schedule.

Routine is key, we had a teacher in 6th grade suggest a homework contract (she was the teacher he wasn’t doing well with, missing lots of assignments, which were all in his binder). We turned around and had the teachers sign also, it had everyone responsible for some part of the homework accountability. C wrote the assignment down in his planner, teacher initialed that it was written completely and correctly and I signed that I had seen it and he had completed it. We did a point system that worked through 7th grade, now in 8th he had asked to not do the contract. I agreed to see how things worked out without it and he has been doing great, now I only have to spot check him. The past two years he had the problem of missing assignments and this year he hasn’t missed any. So I think the routine has sunk in finally.

I don’t know why they don’t, but I really think school’s need to have a specific study skills/organizational skills class for all kids. My kids have a class called seminar where they do address things like harassment, drug avoiding, bullying etc. Sounds like a perfect place to work on the other skills too.

Hope this helps. Best wishes.
Amy

You are so right. The special school we are praying to send our son to next year explicitly teaches organization skills. Meanwhile our current high priced top tier private school doesn’t. And this year’s teacher really doesn’t get it - that a 3rd grader might need to be TAUGHT to be organized if its not inherent.

I don’t really know from personal experience. I was researching ADHD and one of the books I read talked about what research had borne out as the improvements typically seen with medication. Organization was not one of them. The book though had lots of ideas about teaching organization though. We have ended up not giving our son meds due to improvements in attention from therapy. He still isn’t very organized though!!!

Beth

Here the school district sponsors a class in the summer for kids going into middle school on organization and study skills. I don’t know how good it is—my LD son is only in 4th grade and my older daughter is naturally organized. But clearly, it isn’t only LD kids who have difficulties with organization.

I find that every year I have to buy all these different binders, folders ect, for each teacher and they never get used. It is just too complicated for an organizationally impaired kid. I bought him a bright colored folder with a picture of a tiger on it and he labeled it his homework folder. And we’re still working on getting him to automatically use it!!!

And I think teachers make too big of a deal about kids “remembering” to hand in their homework. Why can’t they just simply ask for all kids to put their homework in a specific place? I teach college and find that eventually most students do it automatically but there are always a few who need a reminder. I hardly think this is a character flaw but is often treated as a sign of irresponsibility in the elementary grades.

Beth

Beth

In my last job I worked as a management consultant for a small visiting nurse agency. Their funding was cut and they desperately needed to streamline. I was trained to take the approach of not blaming the employee but facilitating change by helping them to improve their own processes. Without getting into the details it was really about management that allowed each individual to improve how they did their job. It was very effective. People really do want to do a good job. No one goes to work or school thinking, “How can I mess this up.” Many employess are bogged down by systems that don’t function effectively. (Teachers bogged down by a whole language curriculum for example.) Often they feel they do not have the ability to initiate change.
I helped the billing department evaluate every step of the process of sending and receiving bills. Then we removed steps of the process that slowed things down and did not add value.

I use these skill with my son all the time. I am always asking, “What works and what doesn’t.” It is best when he learns to think through his own processes and figure out what is working and what isn’t. If he has a system that works he can do a better job. He has to have a say in developing those systems.

I am sorry if I went way off topic here.

Beginning with middle school there is a class at our school such as you mentioned but it is limited to kids that are supported in some way with LD resources. They teach study skills and organizational skills, and provide hands on help with the particular skills the kids need.

I would say quite frankly that my experience is that the teacher style/ideas and organization of a class is a key in “remembering” to hand in HW. I also think that not handing in the HW that is done is more likely a result of poor organization of collecting the HW at school, and I think that student should be the last to be blamed for it. I find it quite unrealistic to expect every 3rd of 4th grader to remember about his HW if he/she was not thought the routine of collecting the HW first. And it takes more time than some teachers expect.

I can see from home experience that for some routines it takes my son over 3 months to finally “remember” how things need to be done without our involvement.

I can see how my son now remembers about his HW, hands it in and has it all written down in his planbook. But, I do not think these are changes in him, I think this is a result of the structure in school. I do not think he hands in the HW, I think the HW IS BEING COLLECTED. Eventually, I hope (and the school claims it) it becomes internalized and the children do not really need the external structure any longer. The fact that the students can earn a “dress down” day for Fri. if they have 95% of HW done for a given week creates a nice incentive as well…

No, I loved your write up and it just highlights the problem we are having with ds’s teacher. No ownership from management.

Our teacher has an elaborate system for turning in homework, where they put it in a basket and check off on a list that its done. etc. I think its his way of teaching them to be organized. But my kid will leave it in his locker…

Ok, I agree this is an organization but it is not teaching a routine and I think this will be the main difference….

Would he leave it in his locker if the teacher announces: it is time to collect HW and everybody gets up and go to the HW basket?

Karen,
this might be of interest to you:
Dec 16, 2002, New York, New York
Hosted by: New York Branch of IDA

EVENINGS FOR PARENTS
Organizational Skills:DONNA GOLDBERG/Organizational Skills Consultant: Will be providing Tips for Parents to Help their Children

Recommended audience: Parents

Location: IDA New York Branch office
71 West 23rd Street suite 1527, New York, NY 10010, New York
Location tel: 212-691-1930x12

the full program of IDA meetings:

http://www.interdys.org/servlet/viewevents?branch_id=25

..

Children who involuntarily zone out can be ADHD or in some cases have a type of epilepsy or some other challenge.

Reducing background noises can be helpful for concentration. Taking written notes in a notebook can help with the organization.

No easy answers - sorry.

There can be a question as to how young a child is to try the ADHD meds but it is known that for some of those with ADHD, the right ADHD med (a central nervous system stimulant/alerting agent) actually works a little to reduce ADHD symptoms.

The ADHD meds do not work for everyone so even if one tries ADHD meds there is no guarantee they will work at all or work well at all. Good luck.

We’d try meds, but the psychiatrist doesn’t want to .(How’s that for a switch?!) DS doesn’t meet the diagnostic threshhold for ADD - he’s borderline I guess. And he has a tendency towards anxiety, and tends to retreat into a very active fantasy world when stressed. The Dr. is concerned about stimulant meds with him so for now we are looking at other ways.

They have him sitting in front of a fish tank right now. WHen I was in the classroom for a conference the white noise of the bubbles almost put me to sleep. They plan to move him.. : )

Linda,

Don’t apologize for going off topic as you make some very important points. I keep stressing that one of the major sticking points in adults with LD receiving accomodations is not that they can’t be as productive as the non LD employee but because companies refuse to change a procedure they have been doing for a million years that is ineffective even for non LD folks. The accomodation wouldn’t cost a cent.

You also raise an important point regarding your son in helping him develop systems that work for him. In my opinon, a major reason for the organizational difficulties of many students with LD is that the same systems are forced on all of them even though they are not effective.

Of course, I don’t want to make a blanket generalization as that isn’t fair either. Also, I realize that with some kids, if you asked them what works, they wouldn’t have an idea no matter what the parents tried. But what you have said is so important and I hope more people take it to heart.

Now I am an accomplice in getting this topic off track:))

PT

Andrea,

As a person with LD/ADD, thank you so much for that message on rewards not being effective for folks with ADD/LD. You said:

<>

People forget that so easily and think that is just an excuse. But one professional I worked with used this analogy - people with ADD/LD have to make as much effort to be organized due to their brain function as normal people do not to fall asleep after they have been awake a horrendous amount of hours.

Also, this is an extreme example but I think it makes my point - We wouldn’t use rewards and punishments if someone with eplilepsy had a seizure so why is ADD/LD brain function any different?

Please understand that doesn’t mean we should abandon all efforts to teach organization and I believe as I said to Linda, that we need to try and get the student to understand what works and what doesn’t. But I have no doubt that the folks on this board are trying to do that. I just didn’t want a newcomer to think excuses were being made.

Anyway, I have wanted to write a post like you did but feared I would come across as flaming if I did because the motivation issue is obviously a sore point with me. Yours was excellent.

PT

This is a useful article written for teachers, with other references at the end.

Karen,

Your comments about your son retreating into a fantasy world when stressed reminded me of one of the children profiled by Stanley Greenspan in his chapter on the Inattentive Child. It is an interesting read and you might find some of the ways he worked with the child useful.

Here’s the book:

The Challenging Child: Understanding, Raising, and Enjoying the Five ‘Difficult’ Types of Children
by Stanley I. Greenspan, Jacqueline Salmon, Jacrueline Salmon (Contributor)

Beth

What I’ve really come away from this discussion with is that the rewards system is only going to work for my son as a way of helping him internalize an organizational system. Not as a way of creating motivation. He is already motivated and forgets or is disorganized because of how his brain works. This is an important distinction that our teacher doesn’t get completely. I am going to have our psychiatrist intervene to make the behavior mod. program more meaningful for my son. I knew this in my gut, but bouncing it off you guys is extremely helpful.

Karen,

If you are interested in non-stimulant meds, you might ask about Strattera (atomoxetine), a new non-stimulant for treating ADHD. It has just been approved by the FDA after several rounds of clinical testing. Apparently it is effective in relieving ADHD symptoms and it is said to have fewer side effects. I don’t know about how it works for kids with anxiety, but you could ask your doctor.

Andrea

My son’s attention improved greatly when they stopped looking at him through a microscope. In his last class which was 2 teacher inclusion, the sped teacher was really on all his deficits. She highlighted them to work on them every chance she got. She paid almost no attention to his strengths. My son is not normally anxious but he was anxious in this environment. He was performing much better at home than at school. It was like we were talking about 2 different children.

The new teacher has left him alone and given him some room to breathe. He is much happier and therefore more attentive. I think alot of people think that behavior modification means constantly leaning on these kids. It may be needed for some but is the exact opposite of what children prone to anxiety need.

Do you think this guy is nit picking everything that he does that is subpar? If so can you get him to just try backing off for awhile?

I have been impressed by your posts as well. They bring balance to a sometimes controversial subject.

Andrea

I don’t think he’s nit picking so much as ds is outside the bell curve and this teacher is a very orderly guy. I had a good chat with him today though where I made the point that the reward system is good because it will help ds internalize the structure - not because ds isn’t motivated. And he seemed to hear me. I told him truthfully that we’ve always had to create external structure, but that it works if we do. I think he got the point that this is a teaching opportunitiy and not a punishment.

The things that helped my kid’s attention and organization were (1) meds - now no longer needed (2) IM (3) improved sleep (4) a minimum of one hour of heavy physical exercise every day and (5) limiting carbs - she likes them, but they seem to make her drowsy.

In addition, she does have an assignment planner, and after a year and a half of daily nagging is now pretty good at using it, although I still check it about every couple of weeks, and she tends to plan longer assignments rather poorly. In addition, she calls friends most nights to yap on the phone during homework time, under the plausible excuse of checking on the homework assignments. (Can a parent truly complain about 45 minute daily phone sessions when the kid’s excuse is that she is making sure she has all the homework assignments?) She also checks in with her teachers about once a week to make sure that nothing is falling through the cracks; late work is marked off by 10% if it is only one day late, and by 50% if it is more than 3 days overdue.