There no reasonable parent on these posts who expect a teacher to control and educate a child that cannot be dealt with even at home. A child who is crawling out of their skin and climbing the walls and can’t even contribute to a family relationship much less a class room! No, none of us a expecting that. If you have a child like that in your class Beverly, I’ll agree your in a bad way, and shouldn’t be put in that situation. And I’m not making excuses for that parents decisions, but I’m not blinded. But don’t blame that child or the parents. It’s a Crappy school or system that can’t find a better place for that child than in the classroom with normal and high funtioning kids. Why isn’t that kid in special ed? Why isn’t there and AID in your classroom if he so bad? It’s a crappy board of ed you have that is letting everyone else kids suffer because they don’t care enough to come up woith another idea! As a fellow parent, I’d be pissed too, but not at my child or even you. I’d be pissed that I cought my hose in such a crappy school district. I’d move!
Your post was well put, BRAVO and all that! but you weren’t speaking to very many of us. The situation you described is not a common one, in fact it’s very rare. A majority of kids aren’t that severe ADD? And the ones that are have so many problems at home, most parents are glad to be medicating. We don’t want that suffering unmedicated innocent victim of his parents in our classroom either. There is a much more common child out there. The situation I and other parents here are specifically pissed about is the nice, mostly well behaved child that day dreams, thats a little odd, that has a little more energy than the kid sitting next to him. . If you abided by the IEPs and read throught the evaluation you might just learn something helpful and see that you have been doing things all wrong. If teachers were trained the way the should be, they’d know how to teach ever type of thinker! Our children aren’t that hard to teach, you just needs a different perspective. The child that, by the way, if you took the time to try and teach, you’d would find was brilliant. If you took the time you’d find that all he/she needs is a little one on one for 5-10 mintues and he would learn what would take the rest of the class and hour! A child, that it’s your job to educate even if he or she is different. That’s the child most of us have and most of us are talking about. I’m sorry Scotty learns a little differently than suzy or Bobby, I do all I can at home and it’s ALREADY 10x what Suzy and Bobby’s parents do. The rest is that’s your job! It’s very disturbing that you hold this resentment against our kids! What about the class clown? The shy girl? The bully spitting spit balls at your back? Should we remove them all from your class and give you your little perfect room of little angels? Get real. Thats not who makes up this world!
And tough on you if you have to do a little exitra! That’s your job! When our jobs get tough, we rise to the occasion, we don’t conspire with the rest of the school staff and board of ed to make things more difficult. When I get a hard to please customer at my job, that’s a challenge to me. I don’t try to change that customer, or ignor him or complain about the decisions his parents made! I try to chnage MY point of view, MY services, MY policies, and what MY company has to offer. In the end, all that I do results in getting that customer what I’m paid to get him. That’s what everyone else does at every other job that requires them to deal with human beings. That’s what makes us good at our job.
Please forgive my mispellings and horrible grammer/puntuations, but I’m pissed and signing off. If you can’t be supportive and helpful on this board just keep you fingers off the key board and read. That’s what we come here for, you know. To help and support each other and share experiences and get/give advice. Not to be made to feel like @!#$ because our kids are different and make your job so hard! If you have something to say and share about your LD child fine, other than that, your post belongs on a “POOR ME, POOR ME” teacher board.
Re: A flip to Beverly
I completely understand what your are saying. I remember ing first grade , as odd as that is, and each classroom had it’s own phonics teacher. At certain times of the day, the kids split up and the kids who weren’t reading or having trouble went with the phonics teacher. I don’t ever remember that it was a big deal, I mean we didn’t interfere the other kids, it was just how school was, everyone was different.
However, move ahead 20 years (Wow, that makes me feel old!) and I have my own son, who is in kindergarten. He attends private school and the K teacher noticed he was having trouble with the sound/symbol relationship. I write a letter to the public school district and request an eval. They do an evaluation and the special ed teacher visits my son’s school.
At the meeting to discuss the IEP, the special ed teacher very politely tell me that she was appalled when she visited my son’s school for several reasons. The first is because all the children shared tables, they didn’t have individual desks. Next when the teacher was handing out papers, the children were not raising their hands and waiting until they were called on, they would just talk to the teachers.
She said she was so upset that when she got back to her school, she went and visited a kindergarten classroom and found relief when she saw every student sitting at their own desk, the teacher at the front of the room, writing a letter on the board, the kids then copied the letter, and if they needed help, they raised their hand and waiting to be called.
That isn’t the type of child I want. I want an independent thinker, who knows it is ok to be different, who treats others with respected and who is respected by others, including his educators. As this teacher was talking I realized that this wasn’t the place for my son, ever, that I had indeed made the right choice for my son.
About a year or so ago, I took an English class and one of our assignement was to read this short story type article that a women in the late 70’s had written. It was about the different types of education and what children in those settings were being groomed for. She said, after research, that children in the lower class (financial) schools were taught to sit at their desk, do the work handed to them and not ask questions, they were being groomed for jobs where they did their work and didn’t ask questions,were they were bossed around and didn’t stand up for themselves. Next were middle class, where they children got to ask limited questions but were still never given concrete reasoning for their work. This were being groomed for management postions, but those that still required that you listen to a hire power or boss, if you will. Next, were affluent class children, (those who attend private schools) they were taught to question what was going on, seek answers, learn to find the answers themselves, and to work witht their fellow students, basically be independent,the type of child I want. The final kind of school was upper middle class, uber affluent. This schools pushed individuality but also very anylitical thinking, these were the children who become CEO’s and high ranking big wigs!
The point being that schools are grooming kids to be certain types of adults. Many teachers don’t want individual thinkers, they want kids who are quiet can finish their work without assistance, and they definitely don’t want those with LD’s. I am sad to say that if the school system were so willing to help, this board and these messages would not exist.
Once upon a time
Sherry,
Yes, things were so different when I was growing up. I’m not THAT old! It was OK to have ADD in the 70’s. It was OK, no one treated us stupid, we didn’t stand out in a bad way. We weren’t made to feel we were a burdon to our class. We just got C’s! There was room for us in the schools back then! How come there isn’t anymore? Who the hell is the school to say my son has to be like everyone elses! Mindless, well behaved, prim and proper, little drones!
Some people believe our kids are better off now than when parents were in the dark about ADD. I wish I felt my son was better off than I was. My mother allowed us to be what we were and didn’t care what anyone thought. When they complained i daydreamed too much, or that I was adding things to pictures in K when I only should have been coloring and even then using wrong colors (making turkeys purple etc…), my mother laughed in their faces! I didn’t do that, I gave my son a pill. Not that pills were available to my mother, but I don’t think she would have and I’m afraid she’d disapprove of what I’m doing.
Then again, it’s a different world and because it has changed so much, my son cannot be properly educated within this system and what else can I do? I can’t change the school, much less the world. So I either chemically alter my son, or I watch him struggle to fit into a world there is no room for him in. I wonder everyday if what I’m doing is right.
You are lucky to have found such a superior school for the LD student, Sherry.
They are in short supply. Thanks for your kind words and unique perspective. It’s food for thought. But the private school thing is just another reason to resent the system. The more money we have, the better education we can get our children? It’s very unamerican. If the private school can do it, any school can. Things have to change. End of story.
Re: A flip to Beverly
Sherry,
That article would be very interesting to read.
Michelle
The point being that schools are grooming kids to be certain types of adults. Many teachers don’t want individual thinkers, they want kids who are quiet can finish their work without assistance, and they definitely don’t want those with LD’s. I am sad to say that if the school system were so willing to help, this board and these messages would not exist.Sherry wrote:
>
> I completely understand what your are saying. I remember ing
> first grade , as odd as that is, and each classroom had it’s
> own phonics teacher. At certain times of the day, the kids
> split up and the kids who weren’t reading or having trouble
> went with the phonics teacher. I don’t ever remember that it
> was a big deal, I mean we didn’t interfere the other kids, it
> was just how school was, everyone was different.
>
> However, move ahead 20 years (Wow, that makes me feel old!)
> and I have my own son, who is in kindergarten. He attends
> private school and the K teacher noticed he was having
> trouble with the sound/symbol relationship. I write a letter
> to the public school district and request an eval. They do an
> evaluation and the special ed teacher visits my son’s school.
>
> At the meeting to discuss the IEP, the special ed teacher
> very politely tell me that she was appalled when she visited
> my son’s school for several reasons. The first is because all
> the children shared tables, they didn’t have individual
> desks. Next when the teacher was handing out papers, the
> children were not raising their hands and waiting until they
> were called on, they would just talk to the teachers.
>
> She said she was so upset that when she got back to her
> school, she went and visited a kindergarten classroom and
> found relief when she saw every student sitting at their own
> desk, the teacher at the front of the room, writing a letter
> on the board, the kids then copied the letter, and if they
> needed help, they raised their hand and waiting to be called.
>
> That isn’t the type of child I want. I want an independent
> thinker, who knows it is ok to be different, who treats
> others with respected and who is respected by others,
> including his educators. As this teacher was talking I
> realized that this wasn’t the place for my son, ever, that I
> had indeed made the right choice for my son.
>
> About a year or so ago, I took an English class and one of
> our assignement was to read this short story type article
> that a women in the late 70’s had written. It was about the
> different types of education and what children in those
> settings were being groomed for. She said, after research,
> that children in the lower class (financial) schools were
> taught to sit at their desk, do the work handed to them and
> not ask questions, they were being groomed for jobs where
> they did their work and didn’t ask questions,were they were
> bossed around and didn’t stand up for themselves. Next were
> middle class, where they children got to ask limited
> questions but were still never given concrete reasoning for
> their work. This were being groomed for management postions,
> but those that still required that you listen to a hire power
> or boss, if you will. Next, were affluent class children,
> (those who attend private schools) they were taught to
> question what was going on, seek answers, learn to find the
> answers themselves, and to work witht their fellow students,
> basically be independent,the type of child I want. The final
> kind of school was upper middle class, uber affluent. This
> schools pushed individuality but also very anylitical
> thinking, these were the children who become CEO’s and high
> ranking big wigs!
>
> The point being that schools are grooming kids to be certain
> types of adults. Many teachers don’t want individual
> thinkers, they want kids who are quiet can finish their work
> without assistance, and they definitely don’t want those with
> LD’s. I am sad to say that if the school system were so
> willing to help, this board and these messages would not exist.
Re: Once upon a time
Very well said Sherry! And I agree that if the private schools can do it, then so can the public schools. I really loved your post.
Michelle C
Re: A flip to Beverly
I remember reading somewhere (gosh knows I can’t remember where exactly) that we can thank the Prussians for our educational system. Non questioning little worker drones who don’t think for themselves, do what they are told. They made great Prussian soldiers. Or cannon fodder if you will. Someone in the US decided that was a great idea and imported it here.
This occurred somewhere about the time the industrial revolution occurred in Europe, along with ol’ enlightened Frederick the Great.
Re: Once upon a time
I agree with this one.
My son is mister entreprenuer. He is mostly focused on raising money for charity but it is just the act of raising money that he finds intruguing. He can talk to anyone anywhere. He is never intimidated. I look at him all the time and think, “You are going to be just fine as long as they don’t kill what is in you.”
So that is my goal. I don’t care if they remediate him. I gave up on that long ago.
Just don’t take away what he has.
I have found this to be the hardest fight of all.
Re: A flip to Beverly
What I’m going to say has the potential to flare up the meds/anti-meds debate. But that isn’t my intention. My point is that all decisions should be based on what is the right thing to do for the particular child. It should all stem from the child, not anybody else.
Our decision to medicate our dd was based solely on HER needs and what we thought was best for her - I could care less what the school, teachers, relatives or misinformed “friends” and society in general think about it. We had to get over our discomfort and preconcieved notions, sort through the research and make an objective decision with her best interests in mind.
While behaviorally not an issue, spacing out in school was to the detriment of her learning. But likewise I don’t want her getting excessive negative teacher attention when she can’t last an entire school day without falling out of her chair at least once w/o meds either or (unprofessional) resentment from the teacher if she was taking up inordinate time/attention from other students - that really isn’t fair to the other kids. Even with meds, dd works so damn hard - school doesn’t come easily for her yet she is very bright.
But, if my dd fell into that small minority of cases when meds don’t work for her or she had unacceptable side effects or whatever possible other reason or we decide that she no longer needs meds as much as she does now and want to give no meds a try - G-d help the teacher who viewed having her for a student a hardship. ADHD usually affects kids’ learning in some way or another throughout their school life. Teachers should be given the tools/skills they need to handle it well b/c ADHD doesn’t equal special ed/resource room either.
Stepping off my emotional soapbox now….
(Beth from FL - you said it much better and more succinctly than I did.)
Personally, I think you are being unfair. Your child may do OK without medication in school but not all children do. Just as there are teachers who want every child who moves in his seat medicated, there are parents who refuse to believe that their child needs medication.
It also isn’t true that all children who are ADD are brillant. My son is very average in intelligence.
And being ADHD alone won’t get a kid to resource room.
I am not pro or anti medication. My son is not medicated, despite a diagnosis of ADD-inattentive from a neurologist. We considered it, after receiving lots of inattentive comments from his teachers last year. We did IM instead and his comments from his teachers this year indicate that it is no longer necessary.
Beth