Does Megan really have ADD?

I would agree that a smaller class size would solve our problem but that is not real life and there is no way that I’m going to be able to get the school to cut class sizes. We have to find a way for her to fit in.

She probably is bored but how do you teach a child to pay attention to a subject that she finds boring? It is an important life-skill.

The way you describe your child, she sounds like she is mostly bored. she is still young, give it time. if i were you i would not let a teacher be the one to tell you she is add. most dr will prescribe meds for children without a close enough review and the teacher is just that. a teacher, not a medical professional. if after the summer months she still has problems take her in for an evaluation. i wouldnt rush it and i would never let a teacher be the one to decide if my child needs meds. best of luck to you and you daughter. jodi

labels arent always bad, and ADD doesnt have to be treated with medication.There are other options. My son is medicated and it helps him focus and learn but each child and family is different

I think Megan is young and this school year is winding down;I would wait and see what next year brings 6-8 wks into 2nd grade. If there are still concerns, you may want to pursue a diagnosis with a professional.

Kids with ADD may need extra time for test taking in the later grades-having a diagnosis makes this arrangement possible. I think most parents are reluctant at first to have their child labelled but often realize down the road that there are benefits.

Good luck. I think the Amen site on ADD gives a lot of insight into the different ways ADD can manifest itself. I dont have it on hand but a search for ADHD and Amen(his last name)should locate it

Hi Megans Mom,
First and foremost this is a support board so do yourself a favor and just don’t respond to BALL or anyone else that has anything bad to say. BALL obviously has some problems. My daughter was diagnosed Thanksgiving she is ADHD. I asked the same thing about Arts and Crafts. She loves doing them,will sit for hours because why? Its something she is interested in. Shes not violent either. She’s very impulsive as far as touching things, doing things to aggravate other children, talking out loud during nap time, rolling off cot to doing somersaults on her cot. Just very disruptive in class time. Same thing at home: Doing things that she know shes not suppose to do like touching, getting into things that isn’t hers, not asking before getting candy, etc. I have her on Focalin the only med that has helped unlike Ritalin, Adderall, and Strattera. Worst thing I wanted to do for her was to put her on meds. I cried for days before putting her on a med. I talked to therapist, pediatrician, and even my husband and I took a test answering questions about ADHD she ended up 25% inattentive 50% hyperactivity and 91% being impulsive. Her behavior chart went from 4’s and 5’s being the worst to 1’s and 2’s being the best scores. She does not like taking naps either but at school they start laying them down at 1230 and up at 3. With the Focalin she does not go to sleep but she lays there still and stays quiet when she is on the med. Otherwise she would be bouncing all over the place. I trust my therapist, and pediatrician. She starts Kindergarten this August. My therapist says I am way ahead of the game because ADHD kids aren’t usually diagnosed until K or 1st or 2nd and by then they are labeled. I want her to have a good school year. Talk to someone: Pediatrician, Therapist, these doctors put them on the smallest MG. It is worth a shot. I went to my Pediatrician when my daughter was 3. He wouldn’t put her on anything because she was too young to be diagnosed but at 5 I went to him again and he confirmed it with the testing. So then we tried the med. It worked. So, not all doctors or therapists are eager to put child on meds. Again, I could talk forever about this but I’m going to stop now. Just remember if you want support you know who and not to respond too.

really hoping that i didnt offend you. i have an 8 yo son that is adhd/impolsive. like you it took my a long time to adjust to the use of meds. seeing how much better he handles everyday life make me sad that it took so long to agree to trying the meds. my posting was in no way supporting BALL. i do not agree with anything he says!!!! my point was not to rush the situation, have a professional evaluate her. i do not think that a teacher is the one to make this kind of judgement.
if i did upset you, i am very sorry. i loved that this board is here for us parents to find the support of others that are familiar with our difficulties.
jodi

Ball, I’m probably going to regret responding but you have such black and white ideas about things that it is hard to take you seriously even if you have some good points. To say that all “professionals” are going to give me the diagnosis that I suspect is extremely synical. If the “professionals” were that dishonest they certainly aren’t that stupid. There are clear criteria for determining ADD so if an insurance company audited their records and the data did not support the diagnosis, the doctor would lose the entire business relationship with the insurance company. There is also something called reputation. If one patient doesn’t like a certain doctor they tell 10 people. If the patient likes the doctor they tell 1 person. This is what doctors assume and are taught in school.

My advice to you would be to get some professional help for yourself. Your outlook on life is extremely negative. Believe it or not, I tend to be a little synical myself so I really do think you have some good points.

I guess my main question is there anything such as “boarderline ADHD” or is it all or nothing.

Megan’s Mom

How does your daughter do socially? Does she have friends? What kinds of impulsive behavior does she exhibit? Does she get plenty of exercise? How is her diet? There are many alternatives to drugs especially if a child’s “symptoms” are mild. If she’s doing well in school and has friends, I would not be alarmed. Maybe she just doesn’t conform to the norms that schools prefer. Maybe she would benefit from some non-medication interventions like exercise, nutrition improvements or even neurofeedback. A good place to start is Daniel Amen’s web site or book “Healing ADD,” or www.drstordy.com

jodi,
I wasn’t referring to you at all. Just BALL. Whoever that may be. Didn’t mean for you to think that. Sorry. He/She has nothing nice to say EVER so I was just telling Megans mother to not even respond to her. I’m glad this board is here and its bad enough that we do have to medicate our kids. Very sad actually. But, my daughter is doing much better in school. She can focus better, her impulses are much better. Overall, she is doing great at school. Shes a very bright child as all or most ADHD kids. I want her to excel in school not fail and that is why I choose to have her on medication. Without it, I don’t think she has a chance. Talk to ya later

We have two sons. Our oldest (now in high school) was diagnosed with ADHD-hyperactive in second grade, but the pediatrician did not feel his symptoms were strong enough to warrant medication. He described the symptoms as moderate but not extreme. And other than driving his teacher nuts, the symptoms weren’t really impacting his success socially, academically, or emotionally. The pediatrician recommended behavior modification. So he’s not medicated. He’s the most fidgety one at school meetings and other activities, and has a little trouble with some subjects in school because he doesn’t have the patience to do the homework, but all-in-all he’s doing pretty well.

Our second was diagnosed ADHD-inattentive in 6th grade. His symptoms were also not extreme, but he was unsuccessful socially, academically, and emotionally, also in part due to his LDs. We saw an LD/ADHD specialist to get the diagnosis because I wanted to be sure that the distractibility problems weren’t due to his LDs. Again, his symptoms were considered moderate, not extreme. But the specialist felt that he desperately needed help because his self-esteem was non-existent. The turnaround since he started on the medication has been nothing short of a miracle.

So as you asked, I believe there is a continuum to the symptoms. I think I’d be inclined to wait until the next school year to see what the next teacher has to say. Some teachers are more adaptable, and recognize that not everyone fits successfully into the same mold.

The last two sentences in your post tell me that you are aware that there are reasons to be concerned, so I would keep a watchful eye on this situation.

That being said, Jodi did have a very good point — not all children have the same severity of symptoms, and many symptoms mean nothing but ‘busy, active, bored kid who is too immature to sacrifice short-term pain for long-term gain’. A friend of mine has an Asperger’s child. Their Neurologist told them that ALL disorders have a ‘continuum’ — yes, you can have ‘mild’ ADD/ADHD, or ‘severe’ADD/ADHD, OR…similar symptoms that are NOT due to ADD/ADHD.

Severity of symptoms and ability to manage life successfully MUST dictate our response — no child should receive drugs after a cursory examination, but it DOES happen. Sometimes, the professional may be cutting to the chase with lots of experience — but sometimes it is another sort of ‘where there’s smoke there’s fire’ occupational blindness. Parent, Beware — but don’t be Paranoid!

Jodi’s best point was that the teacher’s opinion should of course be listened to — but not necessarily taken for fact! Teachers by nature must categorize and group children, especially in these days where resources are slim and needy children are many — this can lead to an occupational blindness that causes them to see ADD/ADHD FIRST, and then stop thinking…

We parents MUST research the symptoms, syndromes, and disorders, and decide what to do — with the assistance and support of teachers, medical professionals, and other parents. But in the end, after you have done that, only YOU know your kid…once you are educated, you will be able to do a good job and make the best decision for your child. I might not do the same thing as Parent B, C, D, or X, Y, Z, but I will make an informed choice and for MY child, I will do what is best!

Best to all who care for our children and PUT THEM FIRST…above our own agendas and egos, especially!

It seems that Megan is doing very well socially although I see potential for kids to be way ahead of her in the “catty girl stuff” and that’s probably good for now. She’s very unspoiled like a kindergartener right now. We watch no TV generally. Rarely PBS. She had 22 kids at her birthday party recently. Her grades are a little above average. Her reading is outstanding. Her teacher does let her give up her recess to finish work. Sad. I think I’ll check out the resources you suggested. Thanks a bunch.

It looks like some of balls letters were purged.

I wouldn’t let her miss recess to finish work. It is counterproductive. If the teacher won’t modify the work, have her bring it home. She needs the exercise, particulary if she is ADD.

Beth

That seems like real level-headed advice. Thank you.

I really appreciate your input marycas. I will go slow as far as seeking a professional. I’m going to learn all that I can now on-line and from books.

Sheree, I really appreciate your input. Have you thought about sheltering your daughter from excessive bad influences like long bus rides or TV? I’m thinking that since my daughter is impulsive, she doesn’t need to get any new tricks. Impulsively hugging people is not that terrible! Calling names could be distressing for everyone.

I was wondering about that. I’ll see how often it is happening. Megan doesn’t seem to mind especially when it pays off and she gets a good mark. I guess I could accept it for tests only but not for every day assignments. Thanks I think she does need to move around but not get hyped up also.

Thanks for the personal information. It helps to know about real kids. This is going to help when we have a conference with the teacher.

Ball, the DSM criteria is right on this web site and my daughter does not qualify according to this. So, in other words, it is rather strict. She is different. I know it, 2 teachers know it and yet she does not quite qualify. That’s fine with me but I still want to try some natural methods to help her and keep an eye on things for the future. If you think that any child would meet the criteria then you just haven’t read the criteria lately or you live in a very strange environment where that kind of behavior seems normal. You really need help. There is definately something wrong with your mental health or you have an ulterior motive….. You need reality therapy

If you don’t think that ADHD is a valid dx, hold off but watch her carefully. Sometimes a child who is “bored” because the material is being repeated several times for the average student will show behavioral characteristics similiar to ADHD. Did she read at an early age? Does she “zip” through her homework? First grade is a big transitional year as kids who have LD’s are often not dx yet and kids who are gifted have not been identified. As a teacher, I would say first grade is the most difficult grade to teach because the students have such varying levels of ability.

My son was “officially” dx in first grade but I knew he was ADHD when he was 4. If it is your feeling that your daughter does not fit the criteria, hold off. Second grade may prove to be a changing point. It sounds as if she is not behind at all so holding off will not cause any harm.

Good Luck.

I’m thinking that people with gifted children would suspect that a child was gifted. Honestly, before the age of two we did wonder is she might be gifted because she talked early, knew her colors at 12 months, could communicate in full sentences early. But around age 2 she developed this severe frustration with anything that took some effort to master. We backed off and still don’t push her much. I guess what I’m saying is that any potential for giftedness seems to be crushed by her emotional imaturity. Can a child have innate potential that just can’t be tapped? Her father has a very high IQ.

In answer to your question, everyone learns to read early in our district. She was reading at a 2nd grade level by the end of kindergarten. We had nightly reading assignments early in KG. Now she is reading at a 3rd grade level and we are at the end of 1st grade. She’s not alone in the class. There are few students even more advanced. I think she can master almost anything that she sets her mind to but she really has to concentrate to not blow up into tears. Once she gets something she really knows it and is extremely proud of herself and practices her knowledge in real life applications.

She does zip through her homework once we can get her started but she makes many careless mistakes and beats herself up correcting the mistakes. I guess I can’t imagine a gifted child doing this. Do you think I’m correct?

Gifted children often make more mistakes because they do not see a point in doing homework for a task they have already mastered. This usually does not happen as often with tests because they see a point-a grade. They have a tendency to “zone out” and find something they feel is more important to do. My daughter was doing this in second grade, but had already been identified so instead of questioning ADHD (due to the fact that my son was dx in firrst grade), we started watching and found in her desk a NOVEL she had been writing for the entire school year. When she was bored, she would write. Third grade she had a teacher who challenged her-this year in fourth grade she is writing a new novel. Without an identification as gifted, she might be written off as ADHD (inattentive only). There are many sources on this site that discuss the similarities between the symptoms.

Hi Megan’s Mom,

I was like this as a child, a voracious early reader who was in the GATE program. I was labled a trouble maker becuase I was always asking questions, like why and how come, I wanted to know absolutely everything. I would make careless errors on assignments, rush through homework. I was easily distracted by things going on around me, however, I could immerse myself in a book for hours on end. I could talk a mile a minute when you got me started but I also worried about lots of things and would be really quiet and in my own little world. I didn’t have a lot of patience if things took a long time, I would get frustrated with myself because I knew I was capable of so much more because I was gifted but I wanted to find the quickest and fastest way to do things, and had a hard time organizing my thoughts and planning to do things and then at the last minute I would rush through it willy nilly.

I had learned ways to cope with my scatterbrained ADD but in college my compensatory strategies didn’t work anymore. I became so frustrated because I knew I was smart but I didn’t take tests well due to anxiety and worrying about the tests and assignments. Finally I went in and got tested and that was when I was diagnosed. Now everything has come full circle and I understand what you are saying, there are these polar opposites one sees in ADD, they are good at this but they are not so hot in this.

So to answer your question, about ADD, I think she does have it from what you have shared. The sooner she gets a handle on her focusing the anxiety will lessen as she won’t feel overwhelmed anymore.

My son who is ADD tells me that the stimulants actually help him to CALM down. Just the opposite of what one would think, but stimulants actually help the ADD brain to function as it should. The right medication can open a whole new world for a person wtih ADD.

Thanks. What an amazing story. It’s also amazing that your daughter could write a novel without the teacher even knowing about it!

Beverly makes an important point. Usually, not always, gifted kids will find ways to challenge themselves if they are not being challenged by the regular curriculum. These are the kids that come up with elaborate projects on their own at home. They spontaneously make up songs or poems, design experiments to solve problems, appreciate humor at a sophisticated level, etc, etc. There will usually be one area in which they excell and have a keen interest- math, science, language, music… The ADHD kid more typically gets almost nothing accomplished, even if s/he is very interested in something s/he has trouble following through. Of course one can be both gifted and adhd- another fun challenge to sort out.

Borderline is the word we use when a kid has symptoms of ADHD but not enough to meet the DSM criteria. Of course, because there are no truly objective tests for ADHD, a subtle but very real case of inattentive ADHD can easily be missed. This is especially so among the gifted population. Giftedness and ADHD can mimic each other, but gifted children are also far more likely to have ADHD than children of average intelligence.

What really struck me about your post was your description of your child’s severe frustration with anything that takes effort to master. To me that is a huge red flag, even if she does not meet all of the DSM criteria. Russell Barkley, among others, views ADHD not as a failure of attention per se but rather as a failure of self-control. The person with ADHD cannot inhibit his impulse to stop working on something that is not immediately gratifying. This is not matter of insufficient effort or some subjective quality of willpower but rather a matter of brain chemistry. Everyone would rather do interesting things, but most of us can do difficult or boring things, even though we don’t enjoy the process. People with ADHD come with a lot less of whatever it is that enables us to stick with the hard, boring stuff.

Your daughter sounds very much like a child who is gifted and has ADHD or possibly an undiscovered LD. My son is profoundly gifted, LD and has a very subtle, but very real case of inattentive ADHD. He was viewed as “borderline,” and everyone thought his biggest problem was his LD. As it turns out, only when we addressed his ADHD (in our case with medication) could we remediate his LD. Everything changed when we treated his ADHD and he now is a very successful and happy student. Just because a child only shows up as borderline on our imperfect measures does not mean that there is no ADHD. You are wise to be vigilant about this.

Andrea

Megan does seem to be gifted in Art but I wasn’t aware that “giftedness” in the education sense could be applied to a non-academic area. I do feel she is smart in all areas but not necessarily gifted. You do sound a lot like my daughter though. Are you glad that you were not medicated when you were young. Did you get medicated in college or did you find new coping skills? What sorts of coping skills did you find most useful to help with the focusing? Thank you for sharing.

By the way, we are going to try to find a way outside school to encourage Megan’s art ability.

This is a link to my website…

http://members.aol.com/habatya/patti/

Art is where I unwind and I can express myself and share my talents. Art is good but what happens with that is that Art is such a right brained activity that it encourages you to tune out even more and go into your own little world.

All my kids are gifted in art and with my oldest two boys it became a detriment because they were drawing in class and not paying attention. You can see the perimeters of their notes in class, they are covered with drawings. On meds the drawings aren’t appearing as often.

I wished I had been diagnosed as a child. Medication helped my children tremendously and the person who diagnosed me suggested I try it. I did and it made a huge difference for me too. I wish I knew then what I knew now. Things are harder for my sons in college and high school because I was ADD and I didn’t stay on top of things and realize that they too had my gifted artistic mind and were zoning out when they were bored and tuning into their creative artistic mind.

It has been so hard for me a right brained artistic creative unorganized person to fit into the left brained organized, language based college. It has been hard mastering my talents but I have learned how with the help of reading lots of books on ADD, organizing myself, and medication .

Andrea, how do you define LD? Sorry I’m so ignorant. How can a child with good grades be LD?

I found the section on gifted with LD. I understand now. Very helpful tips there. There’s not enough girl-specific examples though and I think there may be some differences between the sexes. I’m thinking that “girl-failure” in school has not been a huge concern until recent years because 30 years ago, a girl could always get married and still have status and self-esteem. Things are different now; an education is crucial to success in life. I’m going to need to hit the library too. I really appreciate all the input. I think I can help my child learn coping strategies for much of this and if she eventually needs medication when life becomes more challenging, then that’s OK too.

GT/LD girls are only beginning to be understood. In four years my son never had a girl in his gt/ld class. I’m glad you found the section on gt/ld.

Andrea

She can be gifted and have some holes in he abilities. Some are gifted LD or gifted ADHD.

There are many articles describing this phenomena.

Type gifted learning disabled or twice exceptional into google.

It is quite possibly her sitiuation.

You may be interested in this. In 1983, Howard Gardner developed a concept of Multiple Intelligences. It breaks from the traditional thinking that you must be good in language and/or math to be intelligent. It defined seven types of intelligence. We each might have strengths in several of them and weaknesses in others. Your daughter’s gift in art comes under his category of Visual/Spatial Intelligence. Howard Gardner added two more intelligences types in 1999, so there are now nine intelligences in his Multiple Intelligences theory. Here’s one related link:

http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/concept2class/month1/#2

For children who don’t find success in the traditional english/math structure, it can be helpful to explore Gardner’s intelligences with them so they can see that they can be equally intelligent, just with strengths in other areas.

Yes, I definitely have done this with my son and I think it is a big part of why his self esteem has survived the drubbing it took in sped.

He knows he is good at some things and we discuss what these are and I point out these things to him whenever he demonstrates them. He knows he needs to work on other things and he is motivated partially because he thinks highly of himself and sees himself as a person who will succeed.

The teachers in my son’s gt/ld class used the multiple intelligences approach quite a lot and even had the kids fill out a survey to see what kind of learners they were. The kids loved it!

Andrea

Thanks, I’ll check it out.