How ridiculous can it get?

Most school districts are required to give certain testing (such as you mentioned) to all students—regardless of their disability. Only 1% are allowed exempt in my state—the lowest mental handicapped students. They must have an alternate test, even.

This whole movement came about after decades of low expectations for special education students. I have always viewed it as a violent pendulum swing without proper planning. I see that alot in education movements.

Groups of parents hold the key to that door, not teachers. If we tried to change it, folks would say that we don’t want to be accountable.

Susan, you have hit the nail on the head. Child-advocates for children with learning problems have been run over by a train of those advocating for everything but our children.

How are you feeling? Functions starting to get back to normal?

I suffered a brain injury about six years ago in a traffic accident. I lost my short term and working memory for a bit and it is still not as good as it once was, even in my strong semantics channel. It started to come back after about 4-6 weeks and gradually I became able to take notes, remember phone numbers from directory assistance, etc. Hope the same for you.

A parent can refuse the test in the IEP. Write a letter stating you don’t want him tested and put a copy in his cum. The letter will excuse him from the test. The teacher has no say so.

As far as I know, parents everywhere have the right to write a letter requesting that their child not participate in mandated testing. I would consider it if I were you.

You might want to check your state laws. In some states, parents *do* have the power (but aren’t always told) to write a letter to the school and have their children excused from the testing. Could be you have to have a certain kind of reason — in a heartbeat I’d claim whatever belief system necessary in the face of this kind of farce.

Good to have you back Ken. Hope that you are feeling better!

In Virginia, the only students that can be excused from our state tests, SOLs, are those that are labeled MR. All others have to take the test, if all LD and OHI students were exempt, the parents would be yelling discrimination. This is the rationale behind including sped children in the test. They can’t be exempt. Accommodations can be given but that is all. It is a problem but it just may push the districts to remediate not just accommodate. Hasn’t happened yet but maybe when the tests determine graduation for the 2004 graduating class something will be done. This is why I remediate in English 11 because I have an SOL. They have to pass it in order to receive a standard diploma. Now, they have developed a modified diploma for the sped kids but they have to pass the 8th grade reading and math SOL to qualify. All of my kids have to pass them except for two, out of 20 kids. A modified diploma means that they can go to a community college in VA but not a four year college or university. They predict that thousands of kids in VA will be receiving a letter of attendance in two years. I know that the advocacy groups will take this to court but it has to happen first. Even if the tests ultimately are thrown out as the sole evaluation for graduation, it won’t be retroactive and the kids that get the letter will have to get a GED in order to receive a diploma. I feel that the tests are really unfair to the kids because they are the victems of whole language which is still alive and well in VA. Tough time to be a parent. I intend to open my own private offices after that happens, so that I can remediate more kids so that they may be able to pass the GED. By the way, the GED has changed not only their norms but the whole test. They told me that if a student can’t pass the SOLs, they won’t be able to pass the GED. They will have to know previous knowledge in science and social studies in order to pass.

If the child is exempt from the state mandated testing..will the child be allowed into a university? Are universities/colleges reveiwing the state test prior to accepting a child?

Depends on what state. In VA, they won’t receive a diploma or they will receive an IEP diploma which will get them nowhere! They will have to get a GED if that were the case and those are hard to get! No easy solution except to remediate their deficiencies privately. In my private practice, the students are remediated and are passing the state tests. I have had some of my clients for the past four years, but it is working. I will probably have them until they graduate even if it is for moral support. Even remediated, sped kids’ self-esteem is so fragile, one failure and they may lose confidence and sink back into the ditch. Very complicated kids!

Shay,
We are considering moving back to VA but I worry about my older son. He is currently an 8th grader in a DODDS middle school.

He took the 3rd grade SOL (the benchmark nongraded one 97-98 school year)), the 4th grade Soc. Studies SOL and the 5th grade SOL (graded). He never passed a single one.

He qualified for sp.ed in 4th grade under OHI because of add/inattentive affecting his ability to learn in the reg. classroom, he tested of average intelligence (eval started in Oct 98, didn’t get an IEP until March of 99).

He took the 5th grade SOL with accommodations and came very close to passing. Here in the DODDS school system, he has taken the Terra Nova test for 6th and 7th grades, with accommodations, he is still not doing well on the tests although he does pretty well in reg. classes, sp.ed support when needed. Mostly environmental accommodations.

What kind of remedies are being introduced in VA for those kids who are either A) poor test takers and/or B) have a difficult time with math. Are the kids able to retake the test? Are there tutoring classes? My son took the tutoring during the 4th grade year but did not progress in the reading/lang.arts area, he did progress with soc. studies and science.

One of the reasons I ask about the math, is that my son is now having more difficulty with math. His WJ test (6th grade) found he had weaknesses in fluid reasoning and processing speed. Apparently things that are necessary for success in abstract thinking type subjects such as algebra.

In high school, I was given the option of taking algebra I in two years (math I and math II, 9th and 10th grades), it made sense because I also had much trouble with math. We were also only required to take 2 years of math and 2 of science, this worked fine for folks such as myself who are more comfortable with words than math or science.

What is the state doing for people who are not inclined to do well in the math areas, considering they now require 3 yrs of math? Is there an algebra skills class that can be taken first? Something like that?

One other question you may be able to answer, what about transfer students who come in for 10th grade and miss out on the 8th grade SOL? Do they have to take that test also?

I apologize for the length, hope you can help. Thanks,
Amy

I think that parents can request through their child’s IEP that their child does not take state mandated tests….however, that child will then definitely not be able to earn a regular diploma or possibly even a modified diploma and therefore has no chance of entering college (community or otherwise). At least in some states this is the case…

I can understand the frustation of these tests. Our kids here are required to take two different achievement tests, the ISAT and the MAT7. I realize all the tests are different but if they are testing achievement you would think the results would be at least close. All 3 of my kids scored higher on the MAT7 then the ISAT. My understanding is the MAT7 is a national test and the ISAT is a state test. The two boys who have LD’s scores look much better on the MAT 7 then the ISAT. At least on the MAT 7 it looks like they know something. They generally get a wide score range on this one scoring anywhere from the 1st to 43rd percentile for the youngest, and anywhere from the 13th to the 89th percentile for the oldest. On the ISAT both boys scored below standards on the reading and math portions of the test, the oldest scored meets standards on writing, and the youngest below standards. According to the states test the boys do not know anything well enough on the Illinois learning standards. Even my NT daughters scores do not make sense. On the Otis Lennon School ability index she scored a 102 which I was told equates to an IQ score, yet on achievement testing she scores constitantly between the 75th and 97th percentile on them. She exceeded standards on the ISAT reading portion and met standards for math and writing. When they broke her scores down further she scored the max possible on some portions ie. comprehension from informational sources, understanding of explicit ideas and iference from text. On the math portion she scored significantly above average on Algebraic relationships and representations but below her peers on Algebriac patterns. But what do these tests really tell us? Isnt what is important is how the child is comprehending the information taught? Not all individuals test well some test poorly, so we punish them? Quess just adding my rant to this crazy world we live in.

Hi Amy,

I will try to answer your questions. The last one first. If he is in sped and comes in during 10th grade, he will have to take the SOLs in 10th grade and 11th grade. Here is the problem, if he doesn’t pass the SOLs in 10th and 11th grade, then he will receive a certificate of attendance. Sped students have to pass the 8th grade math and reading SOLs in order to receive a modified diploma as I have mentioned in my post. So he may have to take them in order to get a diploma of any sort. Of course there is also the IEP diploma but the only thing that you can get with that is a job.

Now remediation, well, all they do is give the students study skills and in the basic skills classes in some schools, they try to help the students improve their reading, writing and math skills, dysteachia as it were. There really isn’t any tutoring that the school provides except in some schools that try to pound the information into the students’head . Most states have these tests in one form or another. I don’t know if all use them for graduation, but some do. My suggestion is to remediate your kids in reading, writing and math using a private tutor. If you want a list of programs that I have used with good results, email me directly. Also, most of our schools in VA still believe in whole language, no phonics.

I appreciate your response, I realize that most states have these tests and all the states we are looking at moving to require them for grad. Sometimes military life isn’t so grand. So far though, VA was the best school system we have been in as far as stateside schools. TX and FL really failed us.

I am not sure he will qualify for sp.ed at his triennial,(according to sp.ed teacher while discussing his WJ scores from 6th grade) I still have my doubts about things but he basically tested as broad average on WJ,(he was actually all over the average range) the computer came up with learning ‘difference’ no disabilities, largest weaknesses in fluid reasoning and processing speed. They requalified him on the f.r. and p.s. basis here in DODDS as well as my documented struggle to get him in sp.ed in the first place, he only spent one complete year in pullout for lang.arts/reading (5th grade,VA). He tested at 5.1 at the beginning of 6th grade and was put in all included classes where he has been successful up until the last spring and the present in math.

I am not really sure what needs to be remediated at this point, he’s kind of that typical inattentive add’er, very inconsistent. It would seem very dependent on the teachers as well, my child who was a non reader in 2nd grade has been able to make A’s and B’s in middle school english and social studies. He’s had very warm, friendly teachers for these subjects. However, he scored at only 15% on the terra nova for lang. arts.Same score both years. Elementary math was a strong point but now he has a hard time with it. I have found middle school math/science teachers to be much more detail oriented and somewhat picky. I have thought maybe it is the mindset of someone who is oriented to math/science. I should cut them some slack, I guess, since I am a liberal arts major. New challenges every year I guess.

Do you think a 504 would make any difference as to how he would be able to take the tests? Can you take the GED as many times as you need to until you pass it? (I’m thinking like the Bar exam) Now I am starting to ramble a bit.

Short answer, thank you, Shay.

Here’s a link to the VA dept. of Education “Parents’ Page”— lots of good info. here re: SOL’s etc.
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/Parents/index.html

Thanks for the good words, keep up the prayers. MRI showed little, neurologist said ear-ringing, headaches, dizziness, disorientation could go away in about six months. I didn’t like the “could” because I also know that perhaps it “could not.”

I work in smaller bits. I have failed every time I put together rhymes and rhythms (and I miss that.) I cancelled my hotel in Atlanta, wanted to hear news on comprehension. Please share anything innovative.

Going back to the original post - tis all political. We eagerly give up billions for war (note: I’m not against fighting terrorism) but balk at anything costing money for the good of kids. The present testing mania will last another year or two until replaced by the next “buzz word.”

Have you thought of having your child be absent on testing days. Take him to the beach, to McDonalds, whatever floats his boat - enjoy the day. On retest day, go shopping with him. They’ll get the message.

You can receive accommodations with a 504 on the standards of learning but I’m not sure if he would qualify for that either, you could try. Concerning the GED, you can take it as many times as you want and it is free, no cost. It is a hard test but there are also GED classes, also free. Colleges look very favorably at the GED, my daughter had no problem being admitted to Penn State and Kent U with a GED. I hope this helps.

That may be true, however if the child is in elementary school there is no need at that time to do so.

In the meantime, parents and advocates need to work to have laws changed. Our legislators have an all or nothing mentality.

My school sadly does just the same thing. The students must take the tests (blame the state for that) but we do not use the tests in any way that is helpful to the student. I wouldn’t hesitate to share your frustrations with your state reps as these tests are state mandated.

What’s also frustrating here is that your son’s resource room doesn’t seem to be centered in a practical philosophy. Kids who need help should get it - not just get more of the same in a smaller, quieter room.

Good luck

Are you aware that a parent has the legal right to withdraw his/her child from taking district/state standardized tests? You do! Just notify the teacher that you want your child exempted and he will not be required to take them.

Are you aware that a parent has the legal right to withdraw his/her child from taking district/state standardized tests? You do! Just notify the teacher that you want your child exempted and he will not be required to take them.

Yes, you can do that in VA as well, the child will then only receive an IEP diploma. What can they do with that?

Unfortunately, nothing. The only thing one with an IEP diploma or a certificate of attendance can do is live on welfare.

Kathy G.

Shay wrote:
>
> Yes, you can do that in VA as well, the child will then only
> receive an IEP diploma. What can they do with that?

Shay and Rover both, thanks so much.

Okay, then how about just giving up now.
It’s worth fighting for a real diploma, not worth making blanket defeatest statements. If you lose the fight, life is not over unless of course you decide it is but that is your choice.

In Mississippi we have three diplomas. The standard diploma that requires 24 Carnegies units, the certificate of attendance and this year we have added the occupational diploma. this diploma also requires credits but the classes are special ed workplace classes, eg. workplace English, Math, Reading etc. Then, it requires 2 yesrs of vocational classes plus a specific number of hours of work experience. The resulting diploma is augmented by a portfolio of work experience and workplace skills. It will include employer evaluations as well as a resume of skills from the vo tech center. I think it is a viable alternative for sped kids.

What happened, Ken? Were you in an accident? I did not see a post about that! I am so sorry but pray that you will recover fully.

Janis

We have an occupational diploma in NC as well, but it is clearly intended for EMH kids or other disabilites where the child can’t get the regular diploma. It won’t get them better than a minimum wage job unfortunately and definitely will not get them into community college.

Janis

Janis et al,
While at the beach body-surfing/boogie boarding with my boys on August 10, I was hit from behind by a monstrous (nice) wave. I was caught unprepared because I was watching my ten year old to make sure the previous wave didn’t swallow him. An even larger wave was behind the one that caught my boy. I was caught relatively unawares and made bad decisions. I remember the catastrophe, but don’t remember hitting bottom, I came up bleeding and dazed. I’d broken my nose, bitten through my lip, and was walking toward the shore bleeding profusely. (Worried about sharks.)

God was with me, because I had been momentarily knocked unconcious - I don’t remember that part - I tried to ride the wave - was smashed - and came up bleeding. What I don’t recall is hitting the ground. Until symptoms arose, I didn’t know I’d had a concussion. I didn’t drown. I didn’t even know I’d hit bottom hard. From talking to neurologists (a neuro-scientist attends my small Epsicopal church in Micanopy), I hit very hard on the top of my head. My capacity for language and its intricacies has been impacted. There is no prognosis there.

It’s been almost three months. My ears ring, my head hurts, I’m very irritable (I was an SED teacher, the 2nd coming couldn’t get me off track.) Wrong words arise. (This is taking longer to write than you’d imagine.) I can’t write with rhyme and rhythm (and you know, that’s a joy of my life…gone. - for awhile, I hope.) The drugs for the pain make me stupid. To present my work on comprehension, I must take pain pills if it’s after noon. I’ve cancelled all talks until Christmas. I still talk to four or five parents/professionals a day on the phone and hope they reach me, not the drugs.

There is so much I want to do. The enemies of common sense prevail, the greed mongers feast, and I want to use the “five” talents the Lord gave me to some avail. I’m 53 and have done a lot - I don’t want your prayers so much for me as for this nation and our children - ….when accused of being a “liberal” I say…when one fights for the needs of the elderly and the children - one is neither liberal nor conservative….merely civilized.

My own ills will take care of themself. What our children need is a new revolution in education. If we’re not prepared to fight tooth and nail, we may as well prepare ourselves for continued irrelevent, inadequate farces as public service delivery. How I want to write more!

I will be at LDA (Chicago) and NY Branch (IDA) - let’s talk and plot. Thanks for the prayers.

Ken Campbell

Ken, goodness! That must have been quite a scare! I certainly hope you will soon be over these symptoms. However, it sounds like your desire to help kids is fully intact! A revolution is what it will take, I’m afraid. Blessings to you…Janis

It may be viable for kids with mild or moderate mental retardation, but for the bright student with LD, it could condemn him to living way below his potential. Suppose he wants to go to a university, or get some training in a community college? That kind of diploma will bar him from either option!

Kathy G.

I agree fully, Kathy. I’d pull my child out of public school in a minite if I thought she would be unable to get a real diploma. She can graduate from homeschool with a real diploma and not have her self-esteeem killed.

Janis

Ken — as someone who also fights medical problems, I can tell you that things will definitely get better.
I lost it completely about ten years back; pneumonia, my daughter also ill, exhaustion, stress weirdness with my own studies, and an auto-immune disorder that put me on a special diet and thyroid pills. During this time I completely lost my short-term memory. For over a year, I could not look up a telephone number and dial it — couldn’t keep seven digits in my head (for those of you whose kids have memory-digit-span issues, believe me, it’s frustrating! But one can cope). I was in grad-school in math and couldn’t even learn a phone number! I read as a major hobby and pastime, but for over a year couldn’t read a real book — couldn’t remember the beginning of a page by the time I got halfway through.
I did what I had to in life and found other things to do to replace those I could not. I copied phone numbers on my left hand so I could read them off. I read books of anecdotes and quotations to replace the longer literature. I got in some more skiing than had been possible when I was studying and working frantically — hey, if you cannot work, it’s only fear of the neighbours that keeps you from getting a little enjoyment out of your convalescence. I make lists to remember and leave them in my shoes or on my purse — can’t get out without the purse because the keys are in it. I learned to cook creatively on a diet containing no wheat and no milk; the making lemonade theory. I had to let my math studies go for a while — hoping that the new thyroid medication will let me get back to them, if we can find a way around my bad reaction to the medication itself. But meanwhile, I got involved with computers again and can be useful answering questions from my own experience here on this board.
I did make some mistakes, notably marrying a guy who liked me better when I was non-functional and lost interest as I improved — do be careful of making any life-altering decisions during this period, please.
Slowly, very very slowly the memory is improving. I can look up phone numbers now and even remember the numbers of some friends; still suffering badly from reversals especially when tired but can learn things if I go over them. I am reading mysteries and historical novels and series again. I even remember who phoned me and where I’m supposed to be tomorrow, oddly enough better than before.
The message here is the old one that we keep telling our students; exercise your brain to make it stronger, and if you can’t do something one way, find another way to skin the cat. Keep working and the mind may not be exactly the same way it was before, but it will be good and in some ways maybe even better.

Well, from the other side, when some provinces here dropped provincial testing in the seventies, the standards for ALL students dropped like a rock. Many parents fight to have their kids included in testing; then, if they aren’t up to the state standards, you can put pressure on the school to actually teach something. No testing, no accountability. This is a way to get “whole-language” and other such foolishness out — if a few hundred angry parents storm the school after their kids fail the test, the school should take stock. The parents in the elementary schools need to be starting their battles now; Grade 11 is 11 years too late.

I’m one of those math/science people. In real life I’m ultra-relaxed, won’t take a job where I can’t wear jeans (tried it and wasn’t good at being somebody else), do the dishes when I have to, carry my office in my car which gets washed once a year whether it needs ot or not, and so on. In math I have learned I HAVE to be picky. I was working towards a PhD before illness made me take a long break, and I’ve taught everything up to third-year engineering calculus.
Here’s something I try to tell my college students (water off a duck’s back in today’s system, but one can only try): one definition of a professional job is that if you make a mistake it can kill somebody, or at best completely destroy their lives. A nurse who mis-measures medications or misreports data or forgets to see someone can kill a patient or worse yet cause lifelong disability. An engineer who miscalculates a force can cause the collapse of a bridge or a building and kill large numbers of people and lose millions of dollars. An accountant who doesn’t know accounting ethics can cause a number of suicides and lose thousands of people’s life savings (Enron and Arthur Anderson, anyone?). A teacher who doesn’t know the facts of reading instruction and research can mess up hundreds of kids lives with lifelong reading weakness. (have we seen this?).
Mistakes in school math and science are meaningless. Mistakes in real-life math and science are anything from expensive to deadly. Be picky! Rejoice that you have teachers who care enough to try to do things right!

A lot of people don’t look at all their options.

You can:

teach effective reading and math skills and work hard for a regular diploma, and then take pride in a difficult job well-done — which is after all what a diploma is supposed to be, not an automatic stamp for existence.

find a private school with better teaching.

repeat a year in high school in order to learn more and pass.

take the GED tests, as many times as you need.

homeschool and take either the GED or SAT’s or ACT.

try correspondence courses and see if you learn better that way.

apply to community college OR some universities as an adult student after two years out of public school (see other ideas bnelow), and prove your abilities by actually doing college-level work.

go to community college OR university as a part-time or special student (does not mean the same as special ed!) and take courses in the fields that interest you and where you have skills; in many fields a diploma is not the main necessity (eg arts, crafts, writing, journalism, drama, film, etc.) but actual performance and work experience is what counts.

travel the world or work as a ski bum or whatever for a few years and gain work experience and maturity; when people do this and come back, they often find that high school or college work for the GED etc. is much easier with the added practical knowledge plus motivation they have gained. Or, they can go the adult student route as above.

Go abroad as an exchange student and learn another language, with the same benefits as above.

spend senior year in another jurisdiction with different requirements if a diploma is very important to you.

And there are probably other good options that I haven’t come up with yet.
Some of these options are expensive and some are cheap and some even earn money; all are possible and have been done.

Victoria, honestly, I wasn’t meaning anything bad about math/science teachers, I truly understand your examples about real life. I just meant that I think folks who become math/science teachers have a different mindset than those who become english teachers. I had a friend in high school who was brilliant in math and couldn’t spell to save his life. We would argue about which subject made more sense. I am definitely not a linear thinker in any sense of the word so math has always been my bane of existence.

We have talked before about how math curriculum is done in a spiral, it really isn’t the best way for my son to learn it but I can’t think of any way to change or improve that. It’s what the teacher has to teach so we try and get by as best we can. C needs a lot of repetition to learn the concepts and usually about the time he’s gotten it, they are on to something else and he totally forgets what he was doing before. No one’s fault exactly, just frustrating all the same.