Need advice/direction

Melissa:

I have the same situation as you do but my daughter is 14. I also have a 7 year old who sounds much like your younger child. The one thing that my older daughter doesn’t do though is get verbal with me, thank goodness. She sounds exactly the same as your daughter in every other respect.

My daughter (according to the school district (when she was in school) said she had ADHD.) Okay. Maybe she does and maybe she doesn’t. She has some of the characteristics, many acutally. But she has more than just that. She has learning problems as well. The school didn’t want to hear anything about that. They had her in special classes for her ADHD. Didn’t do a thing to help her. She kept falling further and futher behind. They had every excuse in the book and I didn’t believe a word of it. I finally, praise the Lord, was able to pull her out to homeschool her. Now homeschooling isn’t the cure all for anything but she is learning at her pace and she is learning from where she knows. For example in public school she was “learning” of all things geometry. Did she understand it? No way. She couldn’t even add or subtract. The school didn’t care they said she could use a calculator. Now being homeschooled she is learning basic addition and subtraction. She is learning what nouns, verbs, adjectives, puctuation, capitalization is. She is learning where every state is located in the United States. Do you get my point? She is being able to succeed because she is learning where she is at. She is not being pushed to learn the exact same stuff that every other kid, (LD, gifted or “normal”) is learning.

As for being a parent to a kid like this? It ain’t easy! For sure. But, God made her (and your daughter) this way for a reason and I am not going to argue with Him. My 14 year old daughter is the sweetest, most sensitive, do anything for anyone kind of person that I have ever met. I wouldn’t trade her or her “differences” with any one. Her 7 year old sister gives her advice and tells her how to act, and my older daughter accepts it and goes on. Let you little one minister to the big one there is nothing wrong with that. As for passing gas in public, if you stop making a big deal of it she is going to stop. She won’t be doing it when she is 12. She’s just a kid, even though it makes you want to rip your hair out sometimes just remember that she is going to grow out of it and she is going to be all the more wonderful because of it.

Don’t worry. The Lord has a plan for your child. She will be just fine.

I have an 11 year old daugher who has all the same issues you talked about AND she is overweight and teased all the time…and if you look in the
‘Parenting an ADHD’ kid thread you will see my very frustrating month which led to my ex-husband and I pulling her out of school to homeschool.
She was diagnosed with ADD in first grade, and again in 3rd grade but I know in my heart there is something else wrong. She has a wall between her and any task. Anything …..except things she loves…just like your child. And I know it’s ADD but I know there is something else that stops her from even attempting to try new things.
I just talked to our pscyhologist about her past, about the screaming fits she would have over her underwear when she was 4, 5,6,7 and 8. They were too tight, they rolled, they were itchy, they were baggy. It didnt’ matter…just as we were ready to go to school, her underwear flared up and she would be hysterical trying to get ready. Forget brushing her hair, teeth (which she still won’t do on her own), putting on socks..we were stuck at underwear. (wouldn’t she hate that I am writing this on a website! EEk!) Anyway, her clothes did this to her as well, anything itchy she would throw off. So forget picking out clothes the night before as they say you should do with an ADD kid. She would rip them off before we even got started because, they itched, they were tight, they didn’t look right….etc. There has always just been something wrong. Well, all that explanation led my psychologist to say: Asperger Syndrome and that might be the social puzzle piece you are missing as well. My daughter can’t play games with other people. She couldn’t from the time she was 4. She can’t fit in, she is always obsessed with one particular thing. So.. of course we aren’t sure but it sounds like a good bet, and now we are going to have a full blown test run, to see if maybe that’s our missing puzzle piece.
As for the underwear…she still wears the same underwear she wore when she was 8 and refuses to try anything new. I know she will be wearing that same child’s XXL Hanes or whatever it is…until she is 21! She will also only wear one type of socks…and lord help me if I forget where I bought it. I did once and luckily she changed brands for some reason, and now she has been wearing this one style of Penny’s socks for the last 4 years. It’s so odd to see this behavior written out right in front of me. I have developed such odd coping skills just to get her dressed in the morning and out the door that I didn’t even realize how strange it is!
Oh, and by the way….if the school psychologist who said she didn’t qualify for any help…missed Asperger’s…she will be sorry she ever met me!

I’m not an expert and this is just a suggestion of something to look at, not anything like a diagnosis. Bit it might be one small part of the puzzle.

Many people in my family, including my daughter and me too, share some of the characteristics you mention, notably clumsiness/awkwardness, not knowing what to say to people and accidentally saying the wrong thing, finding hairbrushing and toothbrushing sometimes uncomfortable, over-concentration on one topic to the exclusion of the rest of the world, and high verbal activity to the extent of being a nuisance and we don’t see the other person getting annoyed.Other characteristics you didn’t mention include poor spatial orientation - easily lost and easily off balance; and lousy time orientation, can’t judge time by feel and have a heck of a time reading clocks. (and the joke is that I’m a math major!)

We have these characteristics in moderate levels and we cope pretty well with them; my sympathies go out to people who have more extreme problems and please don’t feel I’m belittling you.

Anyway, reading these boards, I found that this pattern comes fairly close to something called NLD, or Non-verbal Learning Disability. There’s a really good article on LD IN Depth this month concerning this, and I would suggest you read it. The author suggests some positive approaches to teaching the child and to living together.

There are also a couple of websites, but I found them very negative and depressing so I don’t recommend them. If they can’t suggest coping skils or remediations, there doesn’t seem to be much value in going there to trade complaints.

When you are having your daughter evaluated, this is something you could ask the psychologist to look into.

I thought you might find this interesting as well. This is a comparison of NLD and AS by a parent of a NLD child that I copied from the parenting bb for you. The author is Karen Randall.

Well, I’m certainly not an expert, so I can only tell you my observations from the perspective of the mom of an NLD child. And what I’ve read about Aspergers, and observed in the few children I know who have that dx. There is a large amount of overlap between NLD and AS, (Byron Rourke sueegests that as much as 70% of the AS population is also NLD) but it is not a complete overlap. Some professionals feel that it’s a matter of degree, with NLD kids falling on the low end and Asperger’s on the higher end of the same spectrum. (though I have a hard time with that one, personally)

AS people tend to have less visual/spatial difficulties than NLD people, and some have excellent visual/spatial skills. Many AS people are also good at math, while the majority (though not all) of NLD’ers are weaker in that area.

AS people tend to have more social difficulties than NLD people. Many NLD children struggle for years without help because they seem so “normal” on a casual level. Children with AS are likely to be noticed as a little “different” earlier in their school careers, and often have more difficult behavior issues. NLD kids tend to be branded as “bright but lazy” or “not working up to potential”, while AS kids tend to fall apart and act out, getting themselves labeled as “behavior problems” or “emotionally disturbed” before their real problems are recognized.

While I don’t have a lot of first hand knowledge of these characteristics, from what I’ve read, AS people often have very narrow and extreme interests that border on obsessions. They are also supposedly less interested in social contact than NLD kids. (NLD kids might no be good at social stuff, but they really want it)

Hope that helps. I believe there are a number of articles on both disorders on this web site.

Audrey, is that not called sensory integration disorder?

Janis

YOu might want to pay a visit to
http://www.gtworld.org/gtspeclist.html
— it’s an email list of parents and they wouldn’t find that behavior odd at all, and just this week there was a good Aspergers vs. NVLD discussion from parents’ views. It’s a very knowledgeable and human group.

OH, an

Janis, I found a list of symptoms for sensory integration disorder and on the face of it, that does seem to be my daughter, but the NVLD also fits her in the school aspect of her behavior. Sensory integration disorder, NVLD and aspergers seem to blend in some places, so I will take all this to the new tester and see what we come up with. It will be wonderful to finally have a label and a course of action to make her feel better (or maybe me!).

I ask that dumb question because I just reread the school psychologist’s report, that essentially said since my daughter isn’t failing, she isn’t entitled to any help in the classroom.

Audrey, I think it does help to be able to identify our children’s problems. As you said, then it is more clear what to do about it! Mine has auditory processing disorder and even though I knew that she did, it helped to get an official diagnosis, so that we could be confident about what interventions would be appropriate. I hope you have a good experience with the new testing and diagnosis!

Janis

Audrey,

The purpose of special education is to help children learn the content of the state curriculum if they are not able to do so in the regular classroom with no interventions. The federal law requires states to set guidelines about what test scores will fall into the category of needing special education. It differs from state to state exactly how low the child must be achieving to qualify for special ed. There are many kids who will not quite qualify for special ed. but who cannot possibly make it in the regular curriculum. It is very sad, but there is not endless money to provide an individualized educational program for every child. So often, the school special ed. programs are ineffective anyway, so you are almost always better off getting private tutoring, if needed, anyway.

Some children who do not qualify for special education WILL qualify for a 504 plan which basically guarantees certain accommodations in the classroom (ex: extended time on tests, etc.). This might be something that would be beneficial for your child if you can get a diagnosis that will make her qualify for direct special ed. services.

Janis

They already rejected the 504 as well. At this particular school, with this particular psychologist, my daughter falls in that black hole. We have had another school say, of course she needs a 504 and yet another that brought us in to have her tested…we didn’t even red flag it. Socks has the best 504 link on her website, that talks about how some schools are very helpful with 504 and others refuse to do anything. And as you said, even if we had an IEP at this school, it would be so weak she would only get C’s, which we aren’t willing to accept. Meaning, we aren’t willing to let her limp along, just to support the teacher helping only the top half of the class, which is what is happening at this school.

Good grief, the 504 doesn’t even cost the school anything. I don’t understand that. But it sounds like you have a good handle on things, Audrey, and will get her the help she needs regardless. My feeling is, I’d rather use my time, energy, and money getting something worthwhile than spending it all fighting a school who has half-decent services in the first place. In a lot of cases where the child’s self-esteem is getting killed, I’d just say forget it and homeschool. But every situation is different. Thankfully, we have a very supportive school so far.

Janis

Audrey,

Karen Randall, the woman’s whose post I copied, reads the parenting bb. Her son is NLD and has accomodations that have made a world of difference for him. I am sure from her posts that he has never been failing either. She is very knowledgable so you might post there to find out how she has accomplished that.

Beth

My son is almost 8. He was born at 26 weeks and weighed 1 lb 11 oz. He had a brain hemorrage and they told us when he was born he could possibly have CP and many other problems later on. Well he doesn’t have CP, he does have a severe hearing loss and wears two hearing aids. He plays t-ball and loves all sports. He is in a regular grade two class. He has an IEP because of his hearing loss. He has a resource teacher that comes twice a week. This year the school has told us his behaviour is interfering with his learning. He can sit quietly and listen to stories but the minute they ask him to sit down and write about the story, he shuts down and plainly refuses. They have told us they figure he has ADD and we should go to our pediatrician to” get that taken care of.” He went through a physicological test to see how he is doing because of his prematurity. I am frustrated that the school can quickly diagnose ADD but are unable to notice a LD. He needs a slower pace and a different style of learning. My husband and I are looking into options of maybe special ed schools but it is a slow process. Does anyone have any advice on great homeschool curriculums for LD kids. Preparing my own curriculum frightens me. We are from Toronto, Canada. My other question is, can you homeschool effectively a LD child, without having “formal” training? Any advice would be helpful. Thanks Jennifer Wiseman.

Hi, jen,

I am a teacher of hearing impaired children (also certified in LD). Since severe hearing impairment causes receptive and expressive language delays, children with that level loss usually have difficulty with reading and written language. It is not technically considered a learning disability since it is a result of a sensory impairment.

Twice a week may not be enough service for a child with severe hearing loss. He might need five days a week to help him with the written expression. However, homeschooling is an excellent option for hearing impaired children since background noise can be much better controlled and instruction can be at the child’s pace. I assume he uses hearing aids and a FM system at school?

I can help you with curriculum that is good for hearing impaired children. I’d need to know his achievement levels, though, as well as the level of hearing loss with and without aids. How well does he read? How is he doing in math?

Janis

Hi Janis,
Thanks for the reply.
Nathaniel has a bilateral moderate to severe hearing loss. He is getting C’s in Math and D’s in reading and writing. The resource teacher that comes to see him twice a week, goes over what they are doing in the classroom. He has a teacher’s aid in the mornings but she also helps four or five other kids (that do not have hearing losses)
His assessment, at the hospital that are following him because of his prematurity, showed that he needs an intensive language program to help with his phonics.
He is in grade two and reads at a grade one level. His resource teacher for the hearing impaired says he is doing well with his reading considering his loss.
We are just now seeing the effects that his brain hemorrage had on his brain.
The doctor says that his vocabulary skills are that of a 4 1/2 year old but his comprehension skills are at about a 6 year old level.
His resource teacher just called me this morning and said Nathaniel said he wants to have school at home. I have never brought up the idea of homeschooling to Nathaniel yet because I want to wait until we have decided for sure. But now the school is aware that we have it in mind. The resource teacher talked to me about Ritalin and how perhaps it will help. My husband and I are not great supporters of Ritalin and we feel the school just wants Nathaniel to stop being disruptive to the class.
I feel as though I am rambling and don’t make much sense. I hope you can understand where I am coming from. I would appreciate any input. Thanks Jen

Hi, jen,

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I am absolutely sure many kids are inappropriately being prescribed Ritalin, although I do support it for the kids who simply can’t function without it.

I understand the reason that hearing impaired children have difficulty with reading and written language. They are much like some dyslexic children in that their learning problems are language based. Often they have not had access to all the sounds in order to develop good phonemic awareness. He will not make it in regular class without intervention…and needs much more than the twice a week with the resource teacher. He will need a multisensory structured language type program for reading. If it were me, I’d try Phono-Graphix (buy the book “Reading Reflex”) first. That very well may do it. I like it because the child does not have to learn a lot of rules. Just make sure his amplification is at it’s best.That is essential. Phono-Graphix has been used with hearing impaired children before. I have a study which tells of it’s success with two HI children. I am just beginning to use it. If he has severe delays in written language and needs help forming the most basic sentences, Apple Tree Language is a program created for hearing impaired children and is very good and easy to use. You’d need something else to teach upper level writing later on.

If you are interested in these and other materials for HI children, again, I’ll be glad to help you. I do not feel that his school is serving him appropriately, though. There are some mild loss children I see twice a week, but they still go to a resource teacher at their school for small group instruction in reading two other days. An assistant in the classroom does not remediate anything. I’d either homeschool or call a review of his IEP and get his services changed.

Janis

I”ve got lots of that formal training, but it doesn’t sound like your son’s teachers do. Much special ed training is fairly generic — you learn a little bit about a lot of problems. Your big advantage as a parent is that you can become the expert on your child — and not have to worry about the other students in your class, and not have to figure out each year’s group from scratch. You can also often get a lot of that “formal training” yourself — there are workshops that are mainly attended by teachers, but open to parents as well, in special teaching methods. Some parents make the process more affordable that way — if you’re good at it, you can hire yourself out to others in the same place you are.

There was a study conducted, I forget where now, that compared the homeschooled kids of parents who hadn’t completed high school themselves and the kids of parents who had formal teaching degrees or other higher learning degrees…no difference…nada, zilch. Kids both learned and retained at a much higher level than public school children.

For me, homeschooling was learning some of the things right alongside my daughter. It was a team effort, and very much fun. Go for it, try it..if you don’t find it works for your family, you won’t be any worse off than you are now, and quite possibly better.

Bonita

Thanks so much for your advice. What about the age old question about homeschooling “What about their social skills?” Nathaniel is a very social kid and the only reason right now that he enjoys school, is the social aspect i.e. recess! He has a 3 1/2 year sister who will be going to kindergarten in the Fall, the relationship they have is very strong. How do you think it’s going to work if she goes to school and he doesn’t? He also has an 11 year old sister who is in school. She does not have any LD’s. Although right now she keeps asking to be homeschooled, I think it would be because she doesn’t want to feel left out. She is very social as well, why do you think she would want to be at home as well? I don’t think that I would be able to teach her as well as Nathaniel right away. Then I think of my youngest daughter, I may send her for kindergarten and then bring her home when she is six. Does that make any sense? Thanks for your time. God bless, Jen

jen,

My feeling is that public school socialization is probably more negative than positive (especially as the kids get older). If you homeschool, you can choose the social group with values similar to your own for your son to be with. For example, I have some friends who homeschool and they have a Christian homeschool group that organizes everything from 4-H, group swimming lessons at the Y, gymnastics, to other special activities including field trips. Their kids have plenty of positive socialization and the moms get to enjoy each other’s company as well. Sports and church activites can provide additional opportunities for socialization. Your older daughter very well may feel that you are considering giving extra attention to your son and this may be why she wants to be homeschooled. I do think it would be hard for some children to have to get up and rush out to school in the mornings while another gets to stay home with mom.

But I can definitely see why you might want to start out with your son alone since he is the one who is having difficulty at school. On the other hand, an 11 year old should be able to do most of his or her work independently. A kidergartener would require more attention, obviously. I can’t see that it would hurt her to go to kindergarten at school, but K is usually fun, and then she may not want to come home for first grade! You do have some tough decisions to make. But I will tell you that the schools don’t often do a great job with hearing impaired children, so I can see why you’d not want to risk failure for him especially.

I am going away for spring break on Sat. morning, so I won’t be around for several days. You can email me anytime by clicking on my name. I’ll still be happy to help you with curriculum for HI if you do decide to homeschool!

Blessings to you, too!
Janis

Um, I gotta be honest about this, especially as it regards middle school grades on up…that is NOT the social skills I want my daughter to learn! What a bunch of little vermin…sorry, my daughter has suffered at their hands, and I have an axe to grind about the sorely lacking ‘social’ skills of high schoolers.

Believe it or not, when I homeschooled, my daughter had more friends, primarily because she was relaxed and usually in a setting more conducive to real socializing than the forced interaction and artificial age grouping in public school. Homeschooled kids tend to be more courteous, more accepting of others, and can relate well to a wide range of people, all ages and types. If that’s not a better definition of socializing than the ‘fitting in’ sort of attitude in lock step grades, I can’t think of one.

I know of no other system in the world that artificially groups humans according to age. It’s such a failed experiment in education.

There are bound to be numerous other homeschooling families in your area, and if you don’t have a formal homeschooling group close by, you can check farther afield to neighboring cities. These groups usually sponsor once or twice monthly meetings for moms/dads to share information and a night out, and the really good ones have regular outings and field study they offer at a reduced rate. The one closest to us also does cooperative teaching, meaning that for a nominal fee, one mother will teach a block subject to a group of kids or set up a series of mini-lessons on unit learning. When we lived in a larger city, the skating rink for two afternoons was filled with homeschool kids, all ages and grades, and the moms swapped stories while the kids ‘socialized’. Then there was that gymnastics class solely for homeschooled kids. Our Six Flags here in Dallas is hosting a homeschool kids only day also at a reduced rate. But then, I’m in Texas…and this state is so supportive of home education.

And don’t take me wrong on this, but homeschooling is a bit like breastfeeding in that mom and kiddo have to figure out what’s comfortable for them. It’s a natural extension of a mother or father to want to teach their children, and it feels good to share that knowledge with them, or learn new things ‘with’ them. And shop around for a good group…some, unfortunately for me (and I mean we’re not atheists or anything), but some seem to focus so strongly on their own particular brand of religious doctrine. I wasn’t comfortable with that because we were in it for the academics. There are some good nonsectarian groups or at the least a group that practices tolerance.

Sigh…it feels soooo good to be back home again.

Bonita

Hi Janis
Hope you had a good weekend with your family. I would really like some help in finding a curriculum for Nathaniel. He needs an intensive language program. A doctor suggested Hooked on Phonics. What do you think? God bless, Jen

I can’t tell you what to use with an hearing impaired child but I do know it isn’t Hooked on Phonics. That program is good practice for children who don’t have difficulties but is not explicit enough for LD children.

Beth

My brother was very premature. He was born in 1948 in White Horse, Yukon. He weighed three pounds and had meningitis (it’s probably the premature birth that saved him, as the meningitis could then be treated). Mom often said that it was being in the little health outpost at White Horse that saved him that first day, since he had one-to-one nursing around the clock. He was flown to Edmonton and kept in an 1940’s incubator for several months. Incredibly he was not blinded as were many babies by the over-oxyugen used at the time. His vision is even worse than the rest of the family, a wandering eye and severe farsightedness, and he’s worn glasses since the age of nine *months*. Otherwise he is perfectly normal and has had a professional career and a fairly good life.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you the advice my mother got, which was excellent: she was told by a very good doctor that he had basically lost the first year of his life. First he needed a couple more months of growing just to be up to his due date for birth, then he was in the incubator fighting for life, then he had to grow weight and strength. So the doctor said to treat him as if he was a year younger than his birthday said. This made sense and in general worked out well for him (There was the difficulty with the school that was teaching memorization rather than reading, but that was them, not him).

I think this might be a good attitude for you to take. Yes, your son is chronologically seven/eight years old, but he lost a year or more of development and if you treated him as being really six/seven or even five/six, things would fall into place. Grade 2 is above where his development has reached, so he’s struggling with it. *Really* doing Grade 2 (not repeating the same thing that has failed already in his present school) and reviewing part of Grade 1 and getting it right next year would do very much better than rushing ahead into Grade 3. This is not “failing”, but getting the placement right to start with. Once he is in the right place then he can move ahead properly, speed up and overtake where he is now.

On the reading, you need something with a strong oral component to help with his language. I have seen many posters speak strongly in favour of the Lindamood-Bell programs, which apparently were written by a speech-language pathologist who worked with hearing-impaired students. These programs are expensive but you can buy the manuals and work with them at home. Working at home is a good thing because you can repeat as needed and don’t have to rush or pressure the child. Whatever program you use, make a point of facing him and over-stressing each sound very very very slowly and many many times over, so he can both hear and see how the sound is produced.

Once he does get the reading going, he may develop more language skill out of reading that from listening, as reading will be a better channel for him. So really work on that reading!

As far as getting disruptive when he has to write, he is sending the message that he can’t do it. He needs to go back, to Grade 1 or even k, and re-start writing. The programs used in most schools are hope-and-guess, and with limited language skills he has been lost for two years. If you re-start with the alphabet and how to shape letters neatly you wiull see much more progress than if you try to force a level he hasn’t reached yet.

Hooked On Phonics is supplemental and overpriced. It isn’t intensive — your doctor is uninformed and is going by what little he has heard out of his field.

Look at Lindamood Bell for language and auditory, Fast Forward for intensive auditory, Orton-Gillingham for intensive reading instruction, Phonographix/reading Reflex for quick remediation of reading.

Hi Bonita,

So happy to hear you and daughter are happy again. My son was attacked on playground last year by 9 yr olds. Probably in retaliation for him telling about being bullied in lunchroom. He was 5 and they broke his shoulder. They were horrified and ashamed when they realized how badly he was hurt-but I agree who needs that kind of socialization. He was just a little boy interested in Greek and Roman history and mythology, theWagnerian Ring trilogy, Japanese castles, chess, and learning to cook to mention a few things. He thought everybody was as interested as he was and he spoke funny and he couldn’t count or remember any letters. I’m homeschooling with trepidations, but the worst thing I can imagine is for him to be socialized into thinking that real boys only do pokemon and football and ignore their real interests just to be part of an accepted group.
You mention a paretn’s coop for teaching and sharing tutours. I want to set up somethng here that would be similar. Do you have any resources you can reccomend or networks to contact to describe how others have done this. In UK the unschoolers predominate and thre’s almost no resources and info available to LD paretns outside schools. I’d appreciate any other info you might have on the dynamics of organizing coops etc.. Maybe you could start a new topic on this. I’m sure there are others out there who’d be interested.

Sounds like much needed information, and I do have some links I’ve gathered over the years. Right now we’re rushing to another doctor’s appointment over an hour away, and I’m forever late.

I’ll scout around, do some more research and then start that topic you suggested. Unschooling has some distinct advantages except when practiced to extreme…that case being leaving the education of the child entirely up to the child’s self direction. That leaves some questions in my mind since I don’t see a hindrance between healthy discipline and learning. But then I went to parochial schools as a child.

Will get back to you on this, and I’m so sorry to hear about how your son was brutalized. I hope that some sort of charges were brought against the bullies and their parents.

Bonita

Hi, Jen!

We just returned from our trip last night. I agree with Beth and Victoria. Hooked on Phonics is not one of the programs that would be appropriate. The doctor is correct that he needs an intensive systematic phonics program…that’s just not one of them. I am trying Phono-Graphix (Reading Reflex) first (you can do this one without formal training, although it is available). If that does not work, then I’d consider the Lindamood Bell LiPS. I really want both trainings, actually, but you can only do so much at one time! My school district is not paying for any of the training, so I have to be very selective about what I do. I do plan on using LB Visualizing and Verbalizing to teach comprehension after we tackle the decoding.

I think I already mentioned Apple Tree Language to help with very basic sentence writing. If he can already write good sentences, then you may be able to use a more advanced writing curriculum. Feel free to email me if you have more questions!

Janis