nonverbal ld

go to nldline.com and you will find lots of articles and explanations.
good luck

If the child has non-verbal LD - and you have been asked to see him as an Orton-Gillingham teacher - there is something else going on. Typical strengths on NLD (non-verbal LD) kids are reading and spelling.

My son has a comorbid auditory processing disorder, which cancels the strengths of the NLD. Check into what testing has been done. If you are not seeing him for reading, also go to nldontheweb.org.

Lil

I, too, am certified to teach using Orton-Gillingham. Non-verbal LD requires the instructor to do the same thing you do for Language-based LD: Find out if they know the names & basic sounds for letters, if they pronounce single and multi-syllable words correctly, and if they understand what they are reading.

Kids w/NLD may also have decoding problems, however, most have some form of comprehension issue. The milder versions might be in visualizing when they read. Others have trouble drawing conclusions, predicting & confirming predictions, sequencing the plot, tracking characters, and retelling the plot. There are, as I’m sure you know, many more comprehension needs.

First, find out if you have a word caller. (Because they are more rare, we may miss them and they do happen.) If not, handle him/her like you would with any kid you teach: Sound-symbol association, phonics, fluency, and comprehension.

What are you “seeing” him for? Reading or other stuff?
Susan’s right — you build the same foundations. However, you spend a lot more time on what things mean and how they connect — and I spend more time on “language” in general, including that nonverbal stuff. These kiddos are sometimes completely literal, have difficulty with shades of meaning, etc.
SO start out iwth the same kind of intro — and make lots of observations. Feel free to bring ‘em back here :)

Hi All
Thanks for your offers to help. I hope I’m not taking advantage of you :-).

I met with him this morning. The little criterion tests that I did with him indicate that he has some problems with auditory processing - although by no means as severe as some of my students. Also, I can see that he’s never been taught the complete sound symbol relationship - although he clearly realizes that there is one. He didn’t know the sounds for any of the short vowels - and he gave all the consonant sounds with a decided schwa. So right there I have something to work on.

In addition his comprehension was basically nil - for anything but the most literal and obvious of items. And that was both teacher read (listening) and the selection he read himself.

But I also wanted to let you know the results of the psycho-ed testing - as I know Susan you are really good at interpreting those.

WISC III Full scale 7th%
verbal 39%
performance 1%

Subtest Scores: Information 84%
Similarities 50%
Arithmetic 95%
Vocab. 25%
Comprehension .4%
Digit Span 16%
Picture Compl 5%
Coding 2%
Picture Arrange 9%
Block Design 2%
Object Assembly .4%
Symbol Search 37%

This assessment was done at the parents own expense at an independent children’s facility - and had nothing to do with the school, but now of course, the school is expected to do something with the results. That is the reason I was asked to see him - although the only thing I really do is remedial language (OG - and Lindamood). I’m already seeing 2 other children from that school. I go in every day and withdraw them from class and work with them 1-1 for 40 minutes.

Once again, anything at all that any of you can add will be really helpful. Thanks in advance. He turned 8 in July.

Recheck the scores your posted for this person. Also, if you didn’t, tell us how old is the person. I think you’ve either combined percentages and standard scores or something. In any case, the standard scores are most helpful.

Susan: Thanks for your response. I’ve checked the scores and they are correct as copied from the assessment. They are all percentiles. Here are the ‘scaled scores’ for the same subtests. It doesn’t really mention ‘standard’ scores. Where would I find that?

Verbal

Information 13
Similarities 10
Arithmetic 15
Vocab 8
Comprehension 2
Digit Span 7

Performance:

Picture Completion 5
Coding 4
Picture Arrangement 6
Block Design 4
Object Assembly 2
Symbol Search 9

I’m sorry to have to admit that I’m so poorly informed about these tests that I can hardly formulate an intelligent question. I would love to know how you could see that something is wrong. And how it got past the so-called experts at the school board who gave it to me. I really appreciate any and all your feedback.

The other tests administered are
1.Raven’s Coloured Progressive Matrices,
2.Beery-Buktenica Vis Motor Integration
3.Detroit Learning Aptitude (DTLA-2)
4.WIAT II
5.TOWL-3
Conners’ Parent Rating - Rev.
Conners’ Teacher Rating Scale - Rev.

I can post those scores if it’s helpful. He turned 8 in July. Thanks again Susan. You’re amazing. I don’t think I’ve ever read a post from you that I didn’t think was right on the mark.

Verbal

Information 13
Very nice-superior level general knowledge of the world

Similarities 10
Average ability to categorize/reason with words (Compare to Block Design for visual/spatial reasoning contrast.)

Arithmetic 15
Very nice mental math ability. Nice, quick numbers processing and calculation.

Vocab 8
Still in average range, but not a strength on this test date

Comprehension 2
Whoa, hold the phone. I’d be giving a TOPS (Test of Problem Solving) or some language testing because it looks like this is a problem area for him. Not sure if it is receptive or expressive or both w/out language testing. Warning sign of NLD presence. (Don’t diagnos w/it, but red flag.)

Digit Span 7
Short-term memory not quite average on this test date. Wonder if did better on forward/reverse/or evenly on both

Performance:

Picture Completion 5
They may have given the Raven’s due to low scores on subtests like this. Trying to rule out problems w/fluid reasoning. What was the Raven’s? (I’m guessing about average…)

Coding 4
Could be a fairly significant psycho-motor issue going on. Symbol Search is more motor-free and did better on that one. This makes us look elsewhere for the root cause than visual discrimination, though not positive about that.

Picture Arrangement 6
Not great, but better than the comprehension score. Needs to look at pictures and put in order to tell a story (timed). NLD kids can struggle with this task.

Block Design 4
Could be motor problem, could be fluid reasoning problem, could be both.

Object Assembly 2
Ouch. Perceptual not a strong suit. Could be motor integration issues on this, too. (Putting puzzle pieces together. Timed.)

Symbol Search 9
Quick visual discrim and visual scanning. Relative strength.

Now, I’ll go back to your original post and see what I missed w/the percentages. I could have looked them up in my WISC manual but glad you could quickly post the Scaled Scores (that is the correct term for the individual subtest scores.) The VIQ/PIQ should be expressed without percentages and are more like standard scores.

Try to get people to use the VIQ as your child’s measurement of intelligence. (It is probably 85-90???) Without the comprehension subtest, it would have likely been over 100. Your child “sounds” like an average kid when one talks with them about the world in general. Can do the math calculation. Watch out word problems and verbal problem solving.

Math will still be a challenge due to visual/spatial and perceptual organizational issues. Possible writing/copying problems. They probably did the Beery’s due to these scores.

Lots of good help here for NLD. Look at social skills development. Having a peer anchor at school could be very helpful. (That is a buddy that helps you interpret the world and what is happening.) Reading non-verbal cues may need training. (Good book: “Helping the child that doesn’t fit in” by Norwicki et.al.)

Elenor,

I am so happy to hear of a teacher using Orton and Lindamood in the school setting for remediation.

I am a parent looking to propose Lindamood for adoption to our district’s curriculum for remediation. Right now we use Reading Recovery. My oldest (10) still reads at a 2nd grade level despite intervention for three years with Reading Recovery and a hodge podge of other things. Our youngest son, recently diagnosed will be remediated with the same. I want a consistent, research-based program adopted, and through research find Orton and Lindamood to be the best. I really, really want Lindamood. It addresses everything my kids need and am certain it would not be a wasted effort on the other kids in the remedial reading program. The closest LMB clinic is one hour away.

Anyway, I am looking to get some basics on how to get this program into the school from someone exactly like you. Where should I start and have you had success in using it?

Can you offer me any suggestions?