My daughter wants to go to college!

Unfortunately, I’m not an expert in special-ed law, so I will leave those points to someone who does. I will make these points, though.

First of all, according to law—if I understand it correctly—colleges receiving federal money HAVE to make provisions for students with learning disabilities. If the college your daughter wants to attend won’t do that, then it’s making itself wide-open to a lawsuit for ADA noncompliance. (Someone else will have to tell you if insisting that your daughter get a high math score is in violation of the law or not, as I cannot.) Of course, to qualify for any accommodations, your daughter will have to have been recently tested. Just how recently, though, I don’t know.

Second, there ARE colleges that are hospitable to LD students. There’s even at least one geared specifically at LD students: Landmark College. Maybe your daughter could get admitted to that one. There’s another university in Vermont, called Marshall University, that has an excellent LD program run by Dr. Barbara Guyer, author of THE PRETENDERS: GIFTED PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY LEARNING. It’s called the H.E.L.P. program (Higher Education for Learning Problems—a very apt acronym, if you ask me! =)). If your daughter can prove that her math difficulties is due to a diagnosed learning disability, she might could possibly get admitted there.

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

Doesn’t the music department have any “pull” in who can be admitted? My daughter plays a sport and is being recruited to attend a very highly academic school. The coach makes a list of students that he wants and gives them to the admissions office. He puts the students with the lowest SAT scores at the top of the list. She needs to make a minimum score - which is not all that high, in order to “get in”. My daughter has similar problems. She is very gifted in one area and its definitely not in math. I would think that the more gifted a student is in an area, the more they would be desired by the department they will end up graduating from anyway. Its maddening and my heart goes out to you. Good luck.

Thank you Kathy G. and Trish. The music department wants her very badly, her voice teacher is the head of the vocal music depart., but they don’t have any input as far as admission is concerned, and her scholarship is contingent upon acceptance to the University. It’s a State University and according to the admissions people they are not permitted to lower the standards under any circumstances. She only managed a 230 on the Math portion of the SAT, the minimum requirement is 400, which of course is not very high, but for my daughter it may as well be 4000! We’re confident that she can do better after a few trys at it, but probably not 400. The University admissions people suggest that she go to a community college for a year or so and then transfer in. The problem with that is there’s not a community college close to us so she would have to drive 45 to 60 minutes to get to the closest one thru horrible Atlanta traffic, none of them have any music programs much less drama, and of course she will lose her scholarship. The University she wants to attend that’s offered her the scholarship is less than a mile from our back door! None of this makes any sense to me in a time when everyone is being encouraged to seek a higher education. It seems discriminatory to me, at best, and not a little bit malicious! There just has to be something that can be done, even if it involves a law suit. Maybe I’m just not seeing the situation clearly because it’s my child. Anybody have any suggestions for me?
Thank you for listening,
Paula

Hello Paula,

I am the parent of a son and daughter w/ Specific LD (which includes math). Both have graduated from College.

I am curious to know if your daughter took the SAT as an LD Student with Accommodations. That is probably a good place to begin. She can take the SAT with accommodations as long as she can substantiate her LD to the SAT folk. Also, has she disclosed to the Univ. that she is a student with LD. I live in Atlanta and am wondering which Univ. you are referring to as GA. State, UGA, Emory, and most of the Colleges and Univ. in the area do have Services for Students with LD. You might want to contact the Director for the Disability Services (called various names at every Univ.). This person may be able to assist you further, as they will know how students with LD are admitted to the Univ.. Some students can be admitted to the University as a provisional student. If they do well the first semester the status changes. That might be available at this University. Students with LD/ADD can attend college. I was fortunate enough to see 18 graduate this Spring from Muskingum College with my son. If none of this works, you may need to look for other schools that have Programs for students with LD/ADD. Most colleges and Univ. now have a math course that they will let a student with LD substitute for the required math course. Good luck to your daughter and you. Hope this information is helpful. Sincerely, VEDA

Paula,
I know this sounds simple but can’t you hire a tutor or get someone from her school to work on practice tests for the SAT’s? Even with a learning difference your daughter would score much higher if she studied the type of questions and worked them out with someone who could explain how to solve them. Many of the questions she would practice would be very similar to the actual test. The SAT people can make accommadations if they are notified and her last IEP is still valid and states what her needs are.
Jerry

There are many ways around this. The easiest might be for her to apply as a part-time student and as a non-degree candidate as soon as she has her diploma which you say she has. No one applying as a part-time student/non-degree candidate is ever turned down and SATS are not necessary. Often universities will even have applicaitons on-line for this and admission is automatic. Then let her take a few courses - even this summer. Then reapply as a degree candidate based on her success in the courses she took. In this way you could sidestep the whole SAT thing. You would need to talk to the person who offered her the scholarship though to see if the scholarship offer would wait for her as she “goes in the back door” of the university.

There are ialso ncreasing numbers of colleges that don’t want SAT scores but you already have a school in mind for your daughter. www.fairtest.org could to keep a list of the schools that didn’t require SATS.

I do find it odd, though, that they offer her a scholarship while not admitting her. Who offered her the scholarship? That person should be able to talk to the admissions committee on her behalf and possibly get the SAT math score thing waived.

As to the point of the whole public school program, well, that’s another question. There are those who don’t think it has much point and others including myself who would say sadly that I don’t think it always works on the side of our children especially when they have learning differences.

Hi Laveda, Jerry and Sara,
Thank you for the information. The college we are talking about is Clayton College and State University, which a few years ago was a community college and is now a State University. They have a very good music program and active drama department. CCSU is also the location of Spivey Hall. My daughter has been a member of the Spivey Hall Tour Choir for 8 years since it’s inception. It is the music department at CCSU that administers the Spivey Hall Foundation Scholarship program, who have offered her a scholarship. Yes, she had special administration when she took the SAT. Yes, the school is aware of her situation and are very sympatetic (including the Disabilities office), however they insist that there is nothing to be done except for her to score a 400 on the SAT or go to a community college. And according to the State LD Consultant as well as the Director of Admissions and the Director of Disabilities Services at CCSU, the situation would be the same at any State University within the State of Georgia. I have personally spoken with all of these individuals, so none of this is hearsay. Apparently, you either go to a private University or a Community Colllege or you meet the same requirements that all other students have to meet. Laveda, if you are familiar with the South side of Atlanta, you know that there are no community colleges down here, she would either have to commute 60 minutes further south to Gordon College or the other direction thru unbelievable Atlanta traffic. We have never even let her drive in town, I can’t see sending her into that everyday, she’s too young and inexperienced. I would prefer that she go away to school and live on campus than commute in Atlanta! The conditions of her scholarship state that she must meet all requirements for admission to the college, she must be enrolled as a full time student, and she must participate in a major ensemble. If she goes to another school she has no scholarship money available, she’ll be starting out with a bunch of student loans to pay off. Her Father and I are not financially able to bare the burden for her, I wish we were, then this wouldn’t be as much of a problem. I’m sure we could buy her way into a school somewhere, but that seems terribly unfair when she has accomplished as much as she has on her own. I won’t go into all that, but she is an extremely accomplished young lady. She has an overall grade point average of 83.6, and a core average of 78.2 which of course is less than 2 points below HOPE eligibility, which would pay all her tuition. I have written to Sen. Miller asking him to look into this IMHO injustice. and recently received a response from the Ga. Student Finance people basically saying: that’s too bad, but that’s just the way it is and there is no recourse, no matter how unfair it is. All the years of hard work, redicule from other kids and teachers as well, all the battles with the local schools, all the hours spent in meetings and talking with specialists, all the reading to try and be informed enough to advocate for our child seems to have lead to nothing. I’m at the end of my rope. Someone needs to write an Expose on this subject so that other parents are aware of this situation before they are faced with it. As for us, I know we would have made very different decisions had we known the truth. Jerry, she’s been tutored for 10 years and we are working with her now on a daily basis hoping/praying that she can make a 400 when she retakes the SAT. I think our next approach may be to follow Sara’s advice about the back-door into the college by way of part-time status, she may lose her scholarship award, but she’ll be able to continue working with her voice teacher and maybe they will award her a scholarship when she can become a full time student. Thanks for giving me a place to vent and thanks for the information.

we have a similar dilemma. my son is talented in music and sports. he was recruited by many schools but was not admitted even with coaches and references. they would not give an inch. not even an offer for provisional admission. same advice was given- go to community college. one- this represented failure to him, two- comm. college didn’t offer the accommodations he needed. he also has had low sat’s with accommodations for testing. to make a long story short i had him apply to some schools with comprehensive ld/add support programs, not general disability services. this means you must be accepted by the college and the ld program. he also took act’s. he was accepted by one 4 year school. it only takes one acceptance to get started. they have an ld program staffed with ld specialists, not student tutors. they walk them through the registration process, course selection, mandatory tutoring in your first year, etc. it does have a swim team and a small music department. he also wants to try biology. yes, its expensive. i had to take a parent plus loan, he will do work study as well. but it’s a chance to grow and hopefully shine in a better environment than high school was.
he hopes to transfer to the college he wanted the most after a year. but who knows maybe he will like it here better if he’s doing well. at least it will give him a choice. he found the sat’s “easier” than act’s but did poorly on sat and well on act. he is disabled in math and language arts, reading decoding. the act gives 4 separate grades of testing math ,science, reading , language. and then an overall grade average. his high science off set the low math and gave him a passing overall average. see if your university would accept an act test. it’s very popular in the west and midwest for admissions. good luck!

Hello Everyone,
What about probationary status for the first year? Does the college allow that?I am not an expert about special education and laws either, but I don’t mind sharing my story with you. I am also not sure about your state schools and how they work.
I was diagnosed with a learning disability in grade school. My main difficulty is in Math. I was told that I was never going to go to college.
When I graduated high school, my only resort was to go to community college because of my poor (and I mean poor!!) SAT scores. I decided to apply to a Pennsylania State University satellite campus. They accepted me on probationary terms (I had to maintain a certain GPA or I was unable to attend anymore). I was a “provisional” student. I had support of the disabilites resource center, a resource room which I used to take untimed tests and received tutoring as needed. After a year of introductory courses that I had to take (I placed low into every basic course) I was given degree status. I basically had to prove to them that I could survive in college.
After three years, I transferred to Temple University and I switched my major. In the end, I am a better college student than I was in high school. I graduated from Temple University in May of 2000.
I decided to apply to graduate school. I took the GRE (graduate record exam) and of course did poorly. Most school have that “minimum score”. Well I did not achieve it, but I was accepted and my GPA is a 3.7! My grades have never been this high!
I guess my point is: I don’t think that the SAT’s or GRE’s determine your fate as a student for post secondary education. Some people just have trouble with testing, and I am one of those people.
Check to see if your children can enter the school on probationary terms. A few extra basic classes may be needed, but I think that it is worth it. It took me five years to get my bachelor degree, which is normal these days The only difference with me is that I did not have any scholarships to college straight out of high school( I am not quite sure how they work). However, I did receive grants/scholarships from school due to my grades. It all helps!
hope this helps you :)
Jess

Hi Jess,
Thank you for telling your story. Congratulations on your success! In the state of Georgia, or at least at the school my daughter wants to attend and according to them all schools in the University system in Georgia, students are required to have a minimum SAT score, or they cannot be admitted. I have not yet gotten an answer to the question of part time status, as suggested in Sara’s post. I find it very encouraging to hear your story, I hope that my daughter will be able to do as well. Our latest “problem” (we aren’t even thinking about dealing with this one until we see how she does retaking the SAT!) is that the school is going to require retesting for her LD status. They say that her last phyc eval when she was 17, is not sufficient and she has to be tested as an “adult” in order to qualify for disability services. Does it seem to anyone else that these people are being less than cooperative? All of her testing up to now has been done by the public school system. I’m sure we will be required to pay for this testing and I have no idea how much that will cost. It almost seems like the university is trying to place as many road blocks in our way as possible. I guess I should just be thankful that they aren’t requiring us to have retesting done before they give her special administration on the SAT! Thanks everyone for all the information and concern.
Paula DeTar

Hi Paula,
Thank you. I’ve worked so hard to get where I am and I am so glad that your daughter is looking into college. How old is your daughter now? She was tested when she was seventeen? It does seem as if they are being a bit “picky”. If I remember correctly, when I went to Penn State (9/95), the college took a copy of my original Psycho-Educational Eval (from 1988) and my last IEP from high school. They did not require me to have another eval. However, I did have one before grad school. Have you read up on any info on post secondary education for the disabled? I will look into it and get back to you.
Jess

Hi Jess,
My daughter is 18, she’ll be 19 in November. They are saying that the testing is different for children (even if the child is 17) and they require the adult version of the phyc testing. What ever! I don’t see how it could be that different myself. This seems to be yet another part of this whole system that is out of control. I have done a lot of research on post secondary education, but nothing seems to be of much help. If you find anything that you think would be of value in this situation I would really appreciate you letting me know. I read so much of this kind of stuff, I’m sure I miss some things that are really important. Your perspective as someone who has been through it might be of great value. I can’t help but think that the system should be in place to help LD students not hinder them as seems to be the case for us. Do you remember anything about the cost of eval testing when you had it done before Grad school? I’m looking for a ballpark figure, just for planning purposes. The disabilities services people don’t want to talk about it until after she retakes the SAT, but I’m thinking this may be a major expense that we need to start planning for. Any idea? Thanks for your concern. I am so glad I found this board, I feel better just having contact with people who know about the struggle. We’ve never had much involvement with other parents of LD students, because for the most part, there haven’t been any who were interested. Most of the kids in my daughter’s class had either long since dropped out or had been just trying to hang on until graduation. A lot of them were just trying to get a Cert. of Attendance or a special Ed diploma. There was only one other senior in my daughters math class this past year, and he was an athelete. I think that’s really sad. Two kids who made it through the system, when she was in middle school there were dozens.
Paula DeTar

Paula,
I find it rediculous that they feel that she should be re-tested. It is not as if she was tested ten years ago. I can understand the fact that re-testing may be needed, but not 1-2 years later.
As for prices, I heard that some psychologist charge 1500.00 around here for Evals. I am not sure if that depends on certain tests that are used or it is just a flat fee. I went to a psych intern who received evaluation hours for testing me. I was not charged. Possibly call around and look into prices.
One more thing….Did you ask the college about applying as a non-degree provisional student?
Jess

Jess,
No, we haven’t asked about provisional status yet. We are hoping that she will be able to make a high enough score on the retake of the SAT and that we’ll be able to salvage her scholarship. If not, then we’ll check with them on provisional or part-time status and see if the music department can hold her scholarship for her (I really doubt that they will do that, but it’s worth asking). If worst comes to worst and she has to go to a community college, she can continue taking voice from her teacher (who is Head of the Vocal Music Department at the college she wants to attend) and hope that she can win another scholarship when and if she becomes a degree seeking student. I don’t know how we’ll pay for any of this if that is the case, I don’t know if student loans and Pell grants apply if you have part-time or provisional status. Have any ideas as far as finance is concerned? This is so awful, the people who need the most help have the most obstacles placed in their path. It makes no sense to me. Thank you for your posts.
Paula

Paula,

My suggestion to you is find a tutor for your daughter or check into local learning centers. They provide programs after school for additional help and tutoring. There are SAT books with tapes and workbooks. I used one of these as I was preparing for the SAT and you would not belive how similar the questions were. These practice books are a good idea and this will make her a little more comfortable under the stress of taking the test. I wish her luck with taking the SAT again. Please just don’t let her give up!!

Summer

See United States v. Fordice, 505 U.S. 717,735-39 (1992)(ruling that Mississippi’s exclusive use of ACT scores in making college admissions decisions was not educationally justified, since, among other factors, the ACT’s administering organization discouraged this practice).

Hi,
I just wanted to let you know, Marshall is in West Virginia not Vermont.
It has terrific support services. My daughter’s ADHD was diagnosed there.
It’s also a very good academically. Good luck!

Sounds like your daughter got help there. How much help was available? From what I read you get up to 2 hrs. of tutoring in no more than 2 courses. Accomadations like books on tape, notetakers, extended time on tests are individualized. Is this correct? Was this your daughter’s experience? Has she successfully completed her courses there? What supports and services were made available to your daughter? Is she happy there? I wish more people would post college success stories. Thanks.

I found the HELP program on the website. It looks good. This is a fee for service program and you pay for the necessary hours of tutoring. Could get pricey on top of tuition and R&B fees (for out of state students). Program is quite a bit less costly for West Virginia residents.

With those problems in math, would she be able to fulfill the graduation requirements if she were admitted?

I’d look at the short and long term goals here — this is clearly a passion for her and whatever you can do to keep it alive, do it… part-time or whatever. Could be that she can find career & job opportunities while she’s doing part time classes and like so many basketball players, “go pro” while she’s working towards that degree.

The SAT requires full testing before they provide accommodations. I think you are being questioned about the WAIS. Colleges and the SAT require the adult version of the intellegence test. I find it hard to believe that your testing did not include it because it is done from the age of 16. And I can’t imagine the SAT giving accommodations without it. They are generally infexible. Also be careful to check out the accommodations that schools say they offer. What is on their paperwork isn’t always what is really there. I found out from a very negative experience. Call and talk to the people there, judge how helpful they can be, interview with them if possible, and talk to students if you can. Often students with LD on work study answer the phones.

Are there any lists of colleges that are “user-friendly” for ADHD students?

I came in here rather late in this discussion, so haven’t read all the replying posts. However, I sympathize a great deal as both my youngest son and I have learning disabilities in math. I didn’t realize mine was an LD until middle age (such things weren’t tested for very much, if at all, when I was in public school), and when I was home schooling my son.

When I decded to go to college after I finished home schooling him through high school, I began at a community college for my basic classes. The school was small, the teachers were more than willing to work with me when they saw I had real problems with math. After taking my math classes there and a few basic requirements, I transferred to a university, where I took a few more basics (no math) and my department requirements. Got my BA in English in Dec. of last year, graduating magna cum laude! Talk about feeling great! Now teaching at a community college and, in the fall, will begin work on my MA. My son is doing the same thing…taking basic math classes at a community college for later transfer. He’s working on a BA in anthropology.

So, there are ways around these thing, as many others in here have mentioned. Wanted to offer some encouragement and hope. It can be done! Best of luck!

Ree

Thank you Ree for your words of encouragement. We’ve been working hard and are hoping for an acceptable SAT score when she retakes next Tuesday. I appreciate everyone’s encouragement and suggestions. Maybe with all the good thoughts, positive energy, prayers, crossed fingers, etc. on Tuesday she’ll make it happen! If we can get her in, she’ll find a way to make it work. I know this because she just never gives up. Keep us in your thoughts, especially next Tuesday.
Thanks everybody,
Paula DeTar

I thought that some of you here might be interested to know the status of our situation, everyone has been so nice and helpful. My daughter has retaken the SAT. Saddly her score was only a few points higher than the first time and not anywhere close to the requirement. The idea that was suggested about being a part time student will not work as the University has the same SAT requirement (Freshman index) for part time students as for full time students. Our only other option at this point is a community college and it looks like they have an SAT requirement that she can’t meet as well. Other than this we are looking at private schools, but I don’t have much hope as far as the finances go. It’s very hard, and very unfair. Thank you everyone for your responses.
Paula

Paula,

Although a community college requires SAT scores for freshmen coming right out of high school, I doubt that they have the same requirement for an “adult” student. Although I don’t know what the regulations are for the state you live in, the community college where I teach in NC has students that only have GEDs. My son was homeschooled through graduation, so I had him get his GED in case some colleges wouldn’t take home school diplomas. He’s never taken the SAT, and is currently enrolled at this community college. In fact, I teach developmental English there, and MANY of my students have only GEDs. Some are older adults who never got to high school, much less took SATs. The only requirement is that every student takes ASSET tests at the community college when they apply. These are like placement tests. If they don’t score high enough on the math, reading, or English, they have to take a developmental class (which is what I teach in English and reading), pass with a grade of C, and then they can take the college credit courses.

Look, I even teach convicts out at the maximum security prison…many of them quit school in 6th or 7th grade! And they’re passing the developmental classes and going on for college credit through the community college fo associate degrees!

In this state, an “adult” student is one who has been out of school for at least a year. Find out what the requirement is for your state. Your daughter could take a year off to work or help you out or even take some classes…just one or two a semester…without being part of the degree program. That way she can be learning without having to do the SAT requirement. An online course would be good,too. She could be getting experience that will help her in whatever degree program she goes into later.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that she can’t go to college because of a stupid SAT score when I teach people at the community college who can barely read and don’t know a noun from a verb to do well enough to go on for business degrees, nursing certificates, etc.

Keep trying, Paula. There’s always a way!

Ree

Thank you Ree for your words of encouragement. I’ll been told that in the state of Georgia, a student is considered an adult or non-traditional student after they have been out of school for 2 years. Also she must have 30 College level credit hours before she may be able to transfer into the University system. Which of course means any courses she may be required to take as developmental will not count. We have given up on any hope that she will actually be able to “get” the math, at this point we’re looking for a way that she can “get around” the math to get to the things she wants to study. I can’t see putting her through the torment of more and more math classes (that she can eventually pass, by the way) just to get to some point with another accessment test to have to take more math, none of which is going to stick with her anyway. Short term she can understand the math and do the work, give her a few weeks and it’s all gone again. It’s not that she can’t learn it, she can, it’s that she can’t retain and retrieve it. I don’t understand why college administrators can’t seem to get this concept. They suggest things like tutoring or extended time for taking tests. It’s like telling someone with no legs that you’ll give them longer to run a foot race, they still have to finish the race on foot but they’ll have a little more time. She’s had plenty of tutors, the last one being her Father and every one is absolutely sure that she has got it and will do great on the test. Surprise! It’s the same everytime and I’m convinced that it will always be the same. She doesn’t want to study math or any of the sciences that would depend on math, she wants to stay as far from any thing having to do with math as possible. She just wants a good overall education and to study music and drama. I don’t understand why it is so impossible for her to be able to live at home, take advantage of the State University system and achieve this goal. We’re not trying to send her to an Ivy League college (maybe that would be easier!) we just want her to get her education for a reasonable cost and not start out in life with tremendous debt. She doesn’t even know yet what she wants to do career wise. If she decides to teach how would she ever be able to pay off student loans. The private schools we’ve been looking at average about $30,000. a year so even if she managed to finish in 4 years that’s $120,000. in students loans to start a career as a teacher. This makes no sense to me. She thinks she wants to perform, if she tries that, she’ll be living on a waitress salary or temp office work or whatever and trying to pay back that kind of money. I can’t tell her in good conscience to go for her dream if it’s going to be that kind of hardship. What if she decides she wants to get married and have kids? She’ll be looking at me saying “Why didn’t you tell me I’d be in this kind of mess?” Following your dream is nice, but you have to be practicle as well. Part of what she’s always wanted is the whole college experience, dorm life, going away to school like all her friends. When she lost out on the HOPE grant (they don’t count music and arts grades for eligibility and she was a point and a half below eligibility without them) she gave up that dream, she knew she’d have to live at home. So she went out and won the largest scholarship ever given to an incoming freshman for voice at the University close to our home, but now she has to give that up because of the SAT score. So she’s down to going to the community college that is about an hours drive in rush hour traffic, and it looks like they won’t take her either. Anybody care to guess how long it will be before this kid just gives up? It’s really sad.
Paula

Paula,

I have exactly the same problem with math. I can’t hold onto a formula for more than a day or so. I have to relearn it every time I need to use it. My teachers in high school tried tutoring me and finally passed me when they realized I just couldn’t do it. I even transpose numbers and must double check everything with a calculator. But I graduated magna cum laude from the University of NC at Greensboro last December, so there IS a way! Your daughter should NOT give up.

I realize the developmental classes don’t give college credit, but, once she passes the one in math, she should have to take only one college math class for the basic requirements for her BA. And she may not even have to take the developmental math class. She may pass the Asset test for it. I passed the math Asset test with only one point to spare, but did squeak by. It helps to study the formulas right up to the time of the test, so they’ll stay fresh. I don’t know what sort of learning disability this is that makes math formulas slide out of one’s brain, but there are ways to work around it.

She can still have the college experience of dorms and all if she gets a couple years at a comunity college. Then she can transfer to a university with the math requirement behind her. I would suggest you talk to the local community college’s student counselors and explain the problem. It would be worth having her tested for a learning disability in math so the community college could take that into consideration with the math class she needs. And, if she has trouble while taking the required math class at the university, she can request tutoring which will help her at least get the necessary C to pass. It won’t fix the math learning problem, but will get her passed that class. My son has to take precalculus algebra for his associate’s degree, and he has the same problem I do with math…in fact, his is worse than mine because I’ve had years of doing budgets and struggling with checkbooks so some of it has become a tad bit easier just from so many years of doing simple math. My son doesn’t have that experience behind him.

Anyway, I also tutor students in English who are having trouble passing their college credit English classes…I don’t expect to get into their heads what they have no ability for, but I do help them get their papers written well enough to pass the class. None of these students are English majors, so they only need one or two English classes to go on. The same can be done for your daughter with math.

And I realize how hard it is to commute to school. I spent two and a half years driving an hour each way, between 2 to 5 days a week, to go to UNC-Greensboro…and through the rush-hour traffic on I-85 and I-40. But it would be only a few semesters for her, and then she could go to the university.

I wish you could send her to the community college I teach at…the math prof here is a gem and allows students to use 1 index card on which they can write down all the formulas they can squeeze in. Then they are allowed to have that one card with them during tests. And the developmental math is all done on computer assignments, with a very helpful teacher available to get students through it.

But the counselors at the community college can be a big help. And many colleges and universities have their own grants and scholarships, both need-based and otherwise. I wouldn’t have been able to go at all if it weren’t for the federal Pell grant and the university grants. I took some student loans, but only a very few. Oh, speaking of the loans, you know they have very good deferrment policies. I’m on one now because I don’t make over the limit of $967 a month. And as long as she continues to go to college at least half-time, she doesn’t have pay back her loans. Once she’s out of school for more than 6 months, she’ll have to, but, as I said, they bend over backwards to arrange payments one can afford or else give deferrments or forebearance periods.

I hope you won’t give up trying, for her sake. I lost many years because no one encouraged me or helped me find the ways around the problems. I’d hate to see her chances get pushed aside because of some red tape. I know it’s frustrating. Best of luck, and my prayers go up for you and her.

Ree

Hi Ree,
Thanks again for your encouragement and your prayers. I’ve spent the entire day today looking at different colleges on the web. So far the only situation that she could fit into is at a two year college about an hour south of us. They will let her in as a part-time student, but she has to take developmental courses and if she doesn’t do well she’ll be placed on acedemic probation. She was diagnosed with a specific learning disability (dyscalculia) when she was in the 2nd grade and has had special classes all the way through. She initially was in all LD classes and has found ways to cope with the reading and writing problems, they are of course still a factor, but she does very well except with the math. Her LD is very well documented and the University closest to us has all the documentation they need, it just doesn’t matter. When she took the SAT she had special administration both times, it doesn’t make any difference in her performance. The night before the last testing she and her Dad worked for several hours in the hopes it would stay with her. I think that even if she manages to remember a formula, she is inclined to reverse numbers and various other little things that cause her to miss the answer. Sometimes I think she gets answers correct and makes mistakes in marking her answers, she seems to do better on the computer than on the practice test booklets. A lot of her problem seems to be with going from one function to another, as in any test situation. Although I have seen her work several problems involving the same formula with out stopping and then just lose it. I have the same problem she has but when I was in school there was no help at all. I was told by school counselors as well as my own father, that I just wasn’t college material. My father told me it would be a waste of money for me to go to college. At least attitudes are starting to change about that, even though it seems the results are often the same. I’m trying very hard to stay upbeat and help her keep her spirits up, so thank you again for your encouragement.
Paula

Paula, I’m glad to now you’re still trying. The developmental classes may be her best bet to get her past this math hassle. Once past that, she shouldn’t have any problem with other classes and should get whatever degree she wants. I’ve struggled with the math disability all my life and, like you, found no help for it when I was in school either. It’s a shame that university that has the documentation won’t make some sort of allowance for her problem. I wonder if you can go to the university’s office for handicapped students…this disability is most certainly a handicap…perhaps they would be more understanding or know of some rule that says she can’t be excluded because of the learning disability. There are many laws now that prevent that sort of discrimination; maybe the people you’ve talked to in the other part of the university aren’t aware of these things…or might just not care; there are, unfortunately, lousy teachers and school administrators who are more of a hindrance to education than any help!

Yes, she probably does know the answers to a lot of the questions, but marks them wrong. I have been in the store and had the cashier tell me the cost of something was, say, $32.57. My mind was saying it correctly, I was thinking the right number very carefully, but my hand simply wrote “$35.72”! As if it had its own mind! So irritating! I’ve wasted a lot of checks that way!

Well, I just got my acceptance letter for California State University’s online master’s degree program today, so I’m proof that this math disability isn’t the end of a dream. If I hear of anything that could help out, I’ll let you know.

Ree

Paula -
Here’s a suggestion for you. Contact the SAT office and let them know your daughter has a disability before she takes the test. Tell them the accommodations your daughter needs. They are required by law (IDEA) to give her any accommodations for taking the test such as allowing more time or having a certain portion of the test read to her. This may help relieve some of the testing anxiety she is having during the test, and may help her perform better. It helped me when I took the PPST (Pre-Professional Skills Test) to become a teacher. Unfortunately, colleges are independent from the public school systems and are not required to following society’s guidelines for helping others succeed. I wish you and your daughter the best.

Mark

I know of a junior college that has residence halls. It’s called Paris Junior College, and it’s located in Paris, Texas. And when I was a student there (I graduated from PJC in 1983), it had an open-door policy; you didn’t have to have a high score on an ACT or SAT to get in. (I haven’t researched it in some time, but hopefully that’s still the same.) I don’t know where you live or how far your daugther would be willing to travel to attend college, but distance is not a problem for her, she could attend Paris Junior College AND get the dorm life she craves (with special help in her problem areas). If your daughter can manage there, she’ll be able to transfer to any university that has a good LD program.

Would that work for her, do you think?

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

I should add that Vocational Rehabilitation helped pay for my college expenses there (as did a Pell Grant, then known as a BEOG), because I had been certified as learning disabled. I also received some special help there. So, unless, heaven forbid, it’s changed dramatically in the years since, I really think it would be an excellent place for your daughter to go—again, as I said, if distance is not a problem.

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

Kathy G. wrote:
>
> I know of a junior college that has residence halls. It’s
> called Paris Junior College, and it’s located in Paris,
> Texas. And when I was a student there (I graduated from PJC
> in 1983), it had an open-door policy; you didn’t have to have
> a high score on an ACT or SAT to get in. (I haven’t
> researched it in some time, but hopefully that’s still the
> same.) I don’t know where you live or how far your daugther
> would be willing to travel to attend college, but distance is
> not a problem for her, she could attend Paris Junior College
> AND get the dorm life she craves (with special help in her
> problem areas). If your daughter can manage there, she’ll be
> able to transfer to any university that has a good LD program.
>
> Would that work for her, do you think?
>
>
>
> Yours truly,
> Kathy G.

I just have a few comments and suggestions for you, Paula. We homeschool and Georgia is NOTORIOUS for their demands of hsed kids–I think they require 6 SAT IIs for admittance to any of their prestigious state schools. Don’t know what’s up with that, but it sounds like they are very rigid! Who’s running “the show” there?

That aside, has your daughter looked into the military as a way to further her singing goals and education? Believe it or not, each service actively recruits musicians and singers! You enlist, go through basic training and then are assigned somewhere to a band, chorus or even work as a soloist, depending on the ability and previous training. The GREAT thing is, there are super bonuses and money available for her education when she gets out–and many servicemen start while they’re still active-duty. They might even pay her way through school BEFORE she becomes active duty, which means she’d be officer material. Do the research (you’re obviously good at that!), find out exactly what MOS she wants and try to get the best deal you can from a recruiter.

She wouldn’t be staying there in the hometown, but it sounds like that door is swinging shut. Sigh…

Blessings to your daughter, she sounds as if she’s determined enough to keep battling through!

Cheryl

Dear Paula,
My daughter was also diagnosed with dyscalculia in elementary school. We homeschooled her through High School and she is now 21 and a second semester sophmore at Alverno College in Milwaukee, WI.
If traveling is not a concern for your daughter this may be a place that she should try. They accepted my daughter on a Home School diploma without any ACT or SAT score. She later did her HSED but they did not require it. There LD suport services are excellent and they have two wonderful women who teach Instructional Services Math, they have preformed miracles with my daughter and taken her farther then we thougth possible. She also can eventually learn some math but she looses it very quickly. They encourage her to write everything so that she can understand it and then she uses her notes for any tests. When she finishs her Algebra cours there will only be one other 1 credit math couse that she is required to take. This college has a good music dept. and embraces each persons uniqueness and differences. It is a wonderful place.

DVR should help with tuition, books, and fees. The cost is nowhere near $30,000. If you are interested I would be glad to share more information with you.

Good luck to you both, please don’t give up!!

Hi everyone,
I wanted to update you all on our situation. You have all been so kind and concerned and we thank you very much for that. The situation got as bad as I thought it could get, we were at the point that we were thinking she would simply not be able to go anywhere. Until last week when all the professors got back to the college. As soon as my daughters voice teacher found out what was going on she went to the Director of the Music Dept and he was on the case! He finally ended up at the VP of the college and convinced her of my daughters talent as well as her difficulties with LD. The long and short of it is, contrary to what I was told by the Dir. of Admissions (who is, by the way, no longer the Dir. of Admissions), our situation does qualify for a Presidential Exception and my daughter has received one. She is attending the college of her choice (within the State University system) as of today. Of course they are making it as difficult as possible she is required to take remedial courses in Math and she will have to test out of those programs within a given amount of time, I don’t know how many chances she has at it at, but she’s in and that’s all that matters at this point. We are looking at every resource possible to help her, but the problem isn’t going to go away and, as it has always been, the problem is retention and retrieval. She can learn it today and not be able to access it tomorrow. It is so frustrating that I can’t seem to get that across to anyone who doesn’t, either, have the problem themself or have a child who does. I have to say that I had given up. I didn’t know how I was going to break it to my daughter. We had investigated every school that we could afford to send her to and she was ineligible to go to any of them. God answers in his own way and in his own time. This time it was about 15 minutes after the deadline for paying tuition, but somehow we made it anyway. We have been truly blessed this week.
Thank you all for your support, encouragement and suggestions!
Paula

I am SO glad to hear the good news!!!! That is fabulous. I wish you and your daughter success in dealing with the difficulties she’s having now that she’s being allowed to go there. Feel free to post some more, if you feel the need for some tips for dealing with her learning difficulties AND her difficult professors!

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

Fantastic news! So glad it’s starting to work out. Will keep on praying. Let us all know how it goes for your daughter.

Ree

Hi Paula,
I briefly skimmed all of the messages and was glad to see the good news! The part about the remedial math, that’s okay, because I had to take all remedial classes too. Just make sure that your daughter contacts the Office for Students with Disabilities (whatever it may be called..different schools have different names). This way she can have the support that she needs (accomodations) and they should be able to help her find tutoring if needed.
Take care,
Jess

Hello to all,
It has been almost a year and a lot has happened. Most of it not good. First of all I must say that my daughter has decided not to continue at the local college, it’s just too much of a struggle, too little help, and a losing battle at this particular school. She began her college experience with taking placement testing on the Friday before her first class on Monday, with the deadline for scheduling her classes and paying tuition at 4:00 that day hanging over her head. Needless to say she didn’t do well and ended up in remedial classes not only for the Math but for English as well. They placed a requirement on her that she take all four remedial Math classes, pass out of each one with a C, then retake the placement exams. She was only required to take one remedial English class. The next hurdle was the Disabilities Office itself. She was not qualified for assistance without going through their evaluation process, which was going to cost us about $600. that we didn’t have. The end of her first semester she had a very severe case of tonsillitis and missed a couple of exams. It was an extended illness and she ended up with IC in the English class and had to retake it second semester. The math class she just plainly failed. The other 4 classes she passed with A’s. The beginning of second semester, we found out that her beloved voice teacher had terminal cancer. We lost her a few weeks ago. As soon as school was out, we had her tonsilles removed and at this point we do not know how her voice will be effected. She struggled for two semesters, much frustration and many tears later, I agree with her… it’s just not worth it. She’s working on some recordings and getting an agent, deciding if she wants to go to New York or Nashville or if she wants to try a vocational school of some sort. She is eternally optimistic and I know after all this she will never give up. She doesn’t look at this as giving up, just deciding on another path. The most interesting thing to come out of all this is that she and a friend who is a Phyc. Major at Emory Univ. here in Atlanta have gotten together and developed an idea for assistance for LD families in our County. These two kids are really determined to make a difference for others and I’m so proud of them I could bust. They are beginning with research and that brings me to my other reason for posting this. We need to know what you all think. We have this site as a resource, but what do you all think would be the most helpful “local” information to make available for parents, students and maybe even teachers. I have my own ideas, but I don’t always think the way others do, so it would help to have some input from you guys. We are talking about a website (since I do webdesign and hosting I will be donating that myself) but it would be aimed at just our County, so that we could be very specific about what information we gave people. They are talking about local meetings and a newsletter as well. Any thoughts that you all may have on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
If any of you are interested, Sarah has an on-line resume. It even has a couple of sound clips. I did this site right after she started at the college and haven’t updated it since, so it’s not current or complete. Just thought you might like to meet her.
Lastly, I want to thank all of you here for the help and encouragement you gave us last year. It really meant more to me than I can say.
Paula

Hi Paula..just wondering how your daughter is and how her voice is holding up after tonsil surgery. What is she doing this fall?