Learning disabilities in the armed services

I am a girl so I don’t think I’d be drafted. My learning diability is in math so i won’t be an engineer or anything like that. i would like to be a photographer. I know you have to pass some written tests to get in. My hope would be that even if I mess up the math part I could still pass if i got everything else wright.

The military is not in the business of making accomodations nor should it be. Its job is to turn civilians into soldiers (or in your case, a sailor). I’m sure that there are lots of LD people in the military and I’m also sure many of them are NOT grunts.

As for following directions…I have trouble with that too sometimes. I noticed a big improvement in my ability to follow directions between the ages of 12 and 14. You probably know all this, but I find it helpful to listen extra carefully. And it might help to stay away from the front of the line so you can watch others do the drill first (I do this a lot with gymnastics).

You all have made some great points.

Someone - Why don’t you find the contact information on the Navy Website and email that person with your questions? By the way, I think it is extremely admirable that you want to service your country.

I would think their attitude would be like any other employer’s. What would be reasonable accomodations and can you do the job with them?

I do have to be honest though as a person with NLD/ADHD who also has auditory processing difficulties that I am having a hard time picturing any accomodations that would be reasonable for someone in your situation if you wanted to go into combat. But certainly, there are other ways you can contribute where your LD wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

Then again, if the military’s position is that any potential candidate has to meet the conditions in case they are needed for combat, then they might try to exclude you on that basis. Of course, I don’t know any of this for a fact so please keep that in mind.

Ball - Great question about the draft. I think my answer would be it depends on the nature of the LD. Frankly, I would be a disaster as a soldier with my auditory processing difficulties. .

I would agree with you that there are already alot of people with LD in the military since it provides the structure that they so desperately need. I sure wish there was a way of finding out the percentage of people with LD who were drafted during the Vietnam War as you really have got me going on this issue.

Girl with NLD - Can you please tell me what you mean when you say you listen very carefully? I swear I am doing that many times but I still can’t remember what someone said? I intend at some point to take the Lindamood Bell Program of V&V to help but I would sure be interested in how you improved in this area. Thanks!

PT

PT,

I mean I have to screen out all other thoughts from my mind and totally focus on what someone is saying to me. I can’t think about ANYTHING else. It’s a chore, but necessary. And I don’t know *how* exactly my auditory processing skills improved. They just kind of did.

It seems to me that basic training would be the worst possible time for someone with LD, especially if that person has difficulty with differentiating between left/right, with auditory processing, etc. The drill sergeant would expect him to be able to follow instructions instantly, and his LD would render him unable to. And since stress has a way of aggravating LD symptoms, and since basic training is designed to be as stressful as possible, I don’t see how someone whose LD impacts his performance could get through basic training

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

Hi Folks,

I’ll respond to some of the points later but I wanted to address this post to Ball.
Ball, I am not going get into a back and forth exchange with you about ADHD being a made up disease but I did have one question for you.

Some of the symptoms of TBI, which you have if I remember correctly, are similar to symptoms of ADHD. I don’t think you would like it if someone said your symptoms were made up so why would you do the same thing to someone with ADHD?

By the way, I have ADHD in addition to NLD and I have family members who have it. If that is a made up disease, I sure would hate to see what a real disorder is.

Sometimes I think you really don’t even believe what you write but just like to get people steamed. Just my opinion and while you certainly have every right to say I am wrong, please don’t flame me for that remark because I am not just stating it out of the blue.

PT

ball, are you always so bitter? Just because you have a learning disability doesn’t mean the whole world is out to get you. You act as if the general population wants to exile LDers and make sure we never have a chance in life. It’s quite annoying and depressing. People come here to get *support*, not to hear (read?) your whining about how misunderstood we are. We already know that.

That being said, Someone-I don’t know if the Navy has a reserve, but if they do you might want to look into that, as I know Reserve is much less stressful and much easier than actual military duty.

I don’t know the Navy regulations but here is what the Air Force has to say, this is directly out of AFI 48-123 ch 3 which governs medical requirements for enterance into the military:

Specific Academic Skills Defects: Chronic history of academic skills or perceptual defects secondary to organic or functional mental disorders that interfere with work or school after age 12 are disqaulifying. Current use of medication to improve or maintain academic skills is disqualifying.

In other words if you have a learning disability that causes you difficulty in functioning day to day in school or work you are disqualified.

The military is about more then killing people. Yes, we are here to defend our country which sometimes means people will be killed but we don’t go around killing people for fun.

There are many high tech jobs in the military all of which require an individaul to be able to pay attention to detail, follow directions, reason things out, ect. Just like any other community we have Dr.’s, lawyers, nurses, engineers, plumbers, electrians, ect. We also have jobs you would never find on the outside we are a very diverse group.

No, the military does not specifically test for a learning disability but it would show on their aptitude test they give all recruits, there are no accomodations for these tests.

If president Bush has his way though there is suppose to be a service branch opened that deals mainly with “homeland” type stuff and it is suppose to be open to everyone, part of his all Americans do 2 years of “service”.

Proudly serving,
USAF member

My understanding is that ADHD does not disqualify an individual but as another poster stated, being medicated for ADHD after the age of 12 does disqualify them. An LD that does not effect a person’s day to day functioning will not cause a disqualification but a report card after the age of 12 that states “modified program” due to being in SpEd will because the military feels that this means it effects their day to day functioning. This is based on the previous posting that states the policy and also an interpretation by a recruiter as I have an ADHD son who has every intention of attending the Air Force Academy. He is on a mission to get off of his meds by his 12th birthday.

Something else from AFI 48-123 Ch3:

Personality or behavior disorders where it is evident by history, interview, or psychological testing that the degree of immaturity, instability, personality inadequacy, impulsiveness or dependency will seriously interfere with adjustment in the Armed Forces as demonstrated by inability to maintain reasonable adjustment in school, with employers and fellow workers, and other social groups is disqualifying.

Sounds like it would be pretty hard for someone with more then mild LD to get in.

Sorry, I don’t remember where I read this but if a person has been on Ritalin or any similar drug within the past 4 yrs. they do not qualify for military service.

The line between ADD/ADHD and just plain lack of discipline is hard to draw. It *can* be an actual disorder, bur as someone who works with kids and their parents all the time I would tell you that most kids with ADD/ADHD are actually suffering from PDDD-Parental Discipline Deficit Disorder.

It was just a SUGGESTION, ball. No need to get your back up every time someone says something you think is wrong. Even if it actually is wrong, the correct way to deal with it is probably not through sarcasm. Perhaps you would be a bit better off if you chose your words a little more carefully.

Ball just loves pissing people off, most of the time I’ll bet that’s the reason he’s here. It makes him the focus of everyone’s attention, not the purpose of this BB. He uses his intellect to manipulate the response he wants, and to justify his deliberately inflammatory remarks.

Ball, you spend a lot of time whining about how the world is out to get you, how the system fails you, talking like a victim and trying to drag us down with you. You’re a highly intelligent guy, it’s a shame you choose to waste so much of your energy on these pointless diatribes. I can’t help but wonder what a guy as bright as you could accomplish if you directed all that valuable energy into something positive instead of ruminating about who’s at fault and “proving” how right you are. You’ve got some really great stuff to say that’s mixed up with the muck, but I’ve never responded to any of it because I’m not interested in wasting my own time and energy engaging in time sucking useless debates about how bad Ball has it, or why the rest of us shouldn’t throw in the towel along with you.

Grow up and take some responsibility for how you choose to think, that has as much influence on the situation each of us finds ourselves in as the limitations that brought us to this board.

OK guyz, thanx for all the info. Didnt mean for this to turn so um controversial. Thanx for your honesty, even though it is sometimes brutal.

ball-are you this hard to get along with in real life? Cuz if you are it’s no wonder you’re so paranoid.

Yes, the truth is often unpopular. But the way you say it is often just as unpopular. I have yet to read one of your posts that is not dripping with disdain, sarcasm, and disrespect.

You’re a bright person. I won’t deny that. You do your research and I admire your willingness to post something that you know will get some bad responses. But that does not give you the right to be tactless.

And I ain’t PC, all right? Call me, anything, *anything*, ANYTHING but PC.

Ball,

No teacher ever requested that my son be put on meds, in fact his kindergarten teacher worked with me beyond the call of duty to keep him off meds. This is not an issue of behavioral problems in school. He cannot read, he cannot remember to lift the toilet seat, he cannot remember what he is doing, he hurts the dog, he bites his sister, he cannot keep from getting frustrated at “my brain not working” (his words not mine), he cannot keep friends because they cannot stand him, he cannot play a game, he cannot watch a video…this is all when he is not on meds.

He is a child that tests out with a 154 IQ on meds but 102 off meds. He cannot stay on anything long enough to answer the questions. Off meds he went to Corrective Reading and Tutoring…on meds he is in a gifted program for mathematics.

I would love nothing more than to take him off so he can get himself into the Air Force Academy….BUT off the meds his grades will not qualify him anyway. It is a double edged sword and I really feel that the armed forces need to re-evaluate their policy. I live in an area near an AF base and every pilot I have ever met has MAJOR SYMPTOMS of ADHD. These are the guys (and women) who push the limts everyday.

I cannot see my son going off his meds just to fail on other fronts. Yes I do agree that many kids are medicated that should not be but for those who need it, it is a life saver. In my sons own words, trying to function without his meds is like going down a hallway in his brain on the way to a door, seeing another dor and opening it…and then finding another door and opening it…and eventually realizing that he never got to the door he was trying to get to in the first place. This was when he was 10. I think that is a really profound expanation of how an ADHDer’s brain works. I am blind as a bat without my bifocal contacts and I would never consider throwing them away just because they are a crutch.

Inn reference to Robert Downey and Kurt Cobain, would they have turned to illegal drugs if they had remained on their Ritalin. My soon to be ex was never dx as a child or adolescent (was as an adult) but when he discovered coke and crank they made him better able to focus. This is self-medicating as many did before Ritalin. I would defintely agree that he would have benefitted from a dx and meds when he was young.

Ball has traumatic brain injury. Here are some characteristics to think about when dealing with someone with TBI. Repeated from www.kidsource.com/NICHCY/brain.html#characteristics

Psychosocial-behavioral-emotional impairment
- fatigue, mood swings, denial, SELF CENTEREDNESS, anxiety, depression, LOWERED SELF ESTEEM, sexual dysfunction, restlessness, LACK OF MOTIVATION, INABILITY TO SELF MONITOR, DIFFICULTY WITH EMOTIONAL CONTROL, inability to cope, AGITATION, excessive laughing or crying, and DIFFICULTY RELATING TO OTHERS.

Cognitive impairment
- short and long term memory deficits, impaired concentration, slowness of thinking, limited attention span, as well as impairments of perception, communication, reading and writing skills, planning, sequencing and JUDGEMENT.

This is what I try to remember when I do choose to read something Ball has to say. Normally I just skip anything with his name attached. I would suggest those who don’t want to listen to him do the same.

Ball I did enjoy the whole thread about FUCT though. So did my 13 yr old. We got a good laugh.

Amy

Just so you know, although it would appear that there is some difficulty joining the services with a known ld or adhd, especially if you need medicine on a daily basis, if you come in and are then diagnosed with adhd at some point in your career, the service does not kick you out (unless of course you are unable to do the job period) the service medical professional will offer you medicine or assistance.

You cannot however, join without disclosing and then lo and behold find you have an ld or adhd. Big no no to lie on official documents. Say hello to Ft. Leavenworth.

My youngest son was diagnosed by an Air Force pediatrician (major) who himself was taking adderall for his adhd. I have seen the directives on enrolling in the Exceptional Family Member Program addressed to service people. My husband, a service member since 1980, was diagnosed with adhd in his late 30’s by a service medical professional in the mental health field. He was offered medicine but chose not to take it.

However, the reason my husband had for seeking the diagnosis was because he was having trouble with classes he was taking for his master’s degree (finished with a 3.8 gpa) and wanted some assistance in how to learn more efficiently not because of troubles in his job. I have seen his officer efficiency reports and according to his bosses in the last 22 + yrs. he basically walks on water and can part the seas. He had reading and spelling problems in grade school but has overcome them for the most part. His strengths in the service of his country far outweigh his weaknesses.

Personally I can see lots of good reasons why adhd folks do well in the service. There is the risk taking behavior (jumping out of airplanes, helicopters, war itself), the structure of everyday life but also the change of learning a new job every 1 to 3 yrs (as well as change of location), if you don’t like your boss or coworker, one of you is guaranteed to be leaving soon. The thrill of ‘jumping out of your a**’ when your commander wants something done immediately (for those who work well with pressure at the last minute).

Don’t know if this helps any. I thought about this subject the other day in regards to what other category of folks are denied the opportunity to serve. I am certain there are many besides the obvious, which would be folks with amputated limbs or sight/hearing impairments. Believe it or not, just being nearsighted or farsighted has an impact on how well you can see to fight with a gas mask on. The inserts don’t fit well and you can’t wear your glasses, contacts aren’t allowed in the field (danger of dirt and germs, losing your sight altogether). Lots to think about folks.

Amy

PS Lisa M. Hoooaaaahhh!!!

Hi Amy,

I can understand folks with LD being banned but the policy on stimulants needs to be revised in my opinion. If it is ok for someone in the service to be offered Adderall as your husband was, why is it not ok for potential recruits especially if they pass all the other necessary tests?

Also, I think the military is being awfully hypocritical as they think nothing of letting their pilots take Dexadrine to get through combat missions. But alot of their policies have never made sense so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

PT

ball-I would not contend that it is bad to encourage an LDer to go into the military. If he can make passing scores on the entrance exams and get through basic, he’s obviously fit for duty. He won’t be let out if he’s not. You can’t misread a radar screen and kill someone if you never pass the entrance exams or boot camp.

I’m with you on the Ritalin thing. When I was in elementary school they tried to test me for ADD/ADHD and put me on it, but my parents wouldn’t let them. It’s kind of a double-edged sword, because if they’d tested me I could’ve found out I had a learning disability when I was 7 instead of 16, but I would have been put on Ritalin and I’d be in a lot of trouble now. I know some kids who have to take it and they’re headed down a bad road. It’s not the answer. In most cases of ADHD parents need to discipline their kids, not put them on medication.

Ball-yes an average IQ is 100 and but is not the issue here, a child with ADHD will have an incredible range in scores that is not usually seen as most peoples IQ stays the same for their life. As far as the high score, I have an IQ close to what my son scored and I would not consider myself a genius-there is more than one type of intelligence and an IQ test only measures logical/spatial. I obviously lack intelligence in other areas as I responding to your rantings. By the way, we did Behavior Mod for 2 years before meds (hence the kindergarten teacher that went beyond the call), it didn’t work.

Amy-I remember talking to you on one of the boards before and if there is any information that has not been addressed on this thread yet, I would love to hear it. If I remember you are AF and know infinitely more than I do. Main question-Stratera is not a stimulant and not a narcotic-if that worked, would that disqualify him as well? I appreciated the TBI post.

Hi Beverly,
I wrote my last message fairly late in the evening so part of what I was trying to get across was the hypocritical nature of the services policy towards adhd folks who take meds, at least my take on things as well. I am hoping there will be some challenges to this policy as my boys would like to follow their dad’s (army) and granddad’s (navy) footsteps into the service.

The strattera question is one I am wondering about also. I will look into it and let you all know. The only thing I am leery about is the many posts I have read on added support about this med and the side affects. Currently my guys are successful on Concerta with no side affects. Of course there are lots of folks who don’t see success with stim meds either but see lots of side affects. Hard to say.

I know the adhd part of the conversation doesn’t address the ld question. That I really don’t know, I would imagine if a person was able to graduate from high school with a regular diploma and had remediated most of the ld or had coping skills to mitigate the ld then it would be possible to join the service. It would probably have to be on a case by case basis. I’ll look this up as well and get back to you all. I do know a lady who is dyslexic who was an army officer but quit to marry and have kids. She wore a certain ring on her left hand to remind her which way was left. She didn’t mention other characteristics to me, this was in a general conversation about our families.

Best wishes.
Amy

Amy,

I do definitely agree that the policy is hypocritical. Any information you can get on the issue would be great. I would have to weigh a switch carefully as my son is on Adderall XR with no side effects-when he switched to Concerta for a month several years ago (it was the only Extended Release at the time) he was OFF. We went back to regular Adderall until the XR came out and he was switched to the XR as soon as it came out. Having a med that works beautifully with no side effects is wonderful, I am just hoping it could be a viable option to try Stratera.

I have a friend who has opted not to medicate her son because of the policy (her hubby is AF) but the AF Academy is not an option as his grades are just passing most of the time. She said she hates having to make this choice but it is the only way he can get in. But she is afraid of asking too many questions for me for fear they will assume her son is on meds. For my son, if he cannot go to the Academy, he will study Aero Engineering somewhere else but he wants to fly jets AND get the degree. He has already applied to the Civil Air Patrol to start when he turns 12 next January-this is what he wants to do.

Luckily, the only comorbid LD we had to deal with was a Visual Processing Deficit that has been, for the most part, remediated with Vision Therapy. Some of it was caused by a focusing problem with his eyes that was dealt with. It would be a shame if a child who KNOWS what he wants to do and gets straight A’s is kept from what he wants by an antiquated policy. However, to get the government to change it’s policy is more than I am willing to take on myself. I am not Don Quixote and the military is definitely not a windmill.

Their position on ADHD, from what I was told by a Congressman that I contacted, is that if (like an LD) it does not effect their day to day functioning, it is not an issue. The meds after the age of 12 thing is that they feel it is then a psychological condition. I don’t understand how it is a physical condition up until the age of 12 but then changes to a psychological condition. Or how it is OK to have a psychological condition but only up until the age of 12. It’s enough to fry my neurons!!!!

Beverly,
Oh yes, my thoughts exactly. It’s the same person, same medicine, same problems being treated, so how can it be an educational problem before 12 and a mental health problem after? I know it doesn’t make sense at all.
Of course, if it is the army way, it won’t make sense.
Amy

I have a friend whose son has been accepted into the Navy. He clearly has learning disabilities. He has done much better post age 12 but before that he was in a resource room environment. He has issues with time—no real conception and organization. Parents think it will either make him or break him. I wonder if he just intuitively knows the kind of environment in which he will function best. No military in the family.

He got a regular diploma.

Beth

I have thought about joining the Army or the Marines for years now. But I know it is not for me. I had trouble at school, and at every job I have had. So I know I would be a bigger misfit then Gomer Pyle if I was a Marine.

I doubt I will get drafted either. If I do, I know they will not take me. That is another thing. I doubt I’d be able to join in the first place. So I think I will do my part in helping my country by just supporting those who fight for my country.

Really, people with LD have no place in the Armed Services if you want my honest opinion. Unless you are just the type who enjoys being verbally abused. Course, these days D.I’s cannot hit you, yell at you, or curse at you and that is a fact. You can sue them if they do any of the above.

But more then likely, you would end up getting kicked out anyway. I highly doubt a person with LD could join anyway depending on what their LD is.

But hey, prove me wrong.

Actually, you are wrong abut afew things. Drill Instructors can in fact, yell at recruits and curse at them. Drill instructors are federal government employees and can not be sued. Yes, there are quite afew LD adults serving in the Armed Forces today. In the Officer corp and in the non-com corp.
jennie

I just stopped by and thought I might add to this thread. I’m 37 years old and have dealt with having a learning disability all of my life. I didn’t have the benefit of early intervention as the concept of learning disabilities wasn’t widely known when I was diagnosed at 19 years of age. Too bad I wasn’t born two decades later as I have still yet to fulfill my potential. Was basic recruit training tough? It was the worst experience I have ever been through, however, in retrospect I did gain a lot of self respect by persevering along that difficult path. I guess it was the stubborness in me, and most of all the shame of failure, that helped me get through the abuse. I made a lot of mistakes as my ADD interfered with executing proper drill moves. I felt like Sad Sack! I was shy two weeks of graduating before I was released from not one but TWO platoons. In my case the drill instructors decided to fail me long before I realized I was in trouble, and they accomplished as much via their daily room inspections. Although I’m past that phase of military training I have since found, as a Marine Engineer, that I wasn’t able to perform on a practical level. The co-workers at my unit refer to me as a ‘paper engineer’ because I’m more competent using an academic approach as opposed to a practical one. My naval ‘career’, if you could call it that, has gone nowhere for several years because I have to address the practical aspects of my occupation in order to progress up the ranks. I’m currently changing my career to one where I feel I can more fully express who I am via entrepreneurship, in a line of work where I feel I will excel. I could write a lot more, however, I have decided to drop in from time to time and see where this discussion leads. For those who decide to join the navy I wish you the best of luck and always keep in mind it is all a game. If you play the rules of the game you should have no problem. I’ve decided that it’s high time I was captain of my own ship for once!