Drug Abuse

rebelmom,

I really find all your post informative and many are helpful to me even though neither son is ADD.

Would you be willing to contact the moderators and ask if you could do a “sticky” post regarding the drug issue thing. That way it would stay at the top of the forum and newbies would have a heads up on the issue. It would keep you from having to post each time…someone…brings up the same tired issue.

Thank you

I think thats a great idea, but they are small group, I believe, and things seem to be happening very slowly, technically. Are there stickies here yet? In the meantime, we can all chip in and post the truth in reply to the bogus. We are many, they are few. Just keep it at the top. Bump Bump Bump. If it wastes their time, halleluha! Their little game is only giving us more strength and ammo. They will only look bad because right is might. I mean, if someone comes to a board and sees these argument, it’s not hard to read between the lines, just the very tone of thier posts discredit them before finishing the first paragraph. I never would advise someone who hasn’t already made the decision to medicate. But these silly debates are actually helping our side of the argument, not theirs. It’s hard to see that with tunnel vision. Theres nothing to do but sit back and enjoy it. They are promoting our cause with their sorry arguments. we should thank them. If I have time, I will write a thank you post to them.

[quote:33deda96ef=”rebelmom”] If I have time, I will write a thank you post to them.[/quote]

LOL!

You’re right. Give the moderators some time.

Rebelmom, well said. I especially like the last sentence about researcher going around message boards making a fool of themselves.(LOL).

You are right, we just have to keep posting the truth to counter these FANATICS. Don’t they have something better to do with their lives. I mean we have no choice, we have kids that need help and we are looking to help them the best we can. What do these Fanatics get out of it? Don’t they have a life? I would rather be outside enjoying the sun and pottering around my garden.

Sun? Whats that? Guess you don’t live in New York. My garden is drowning. I’m glad I was too busy this year to invest too much $ into it. I also have some out door painting and a chuck hole in the drive way to repair. But I need 3 dry days to do that! The only good thing is the money I’m saving on my A/C not being used.

:lol:
Sorry folks, the stickies and announcements are reserved for moderators only. If everybody can do it, they will abuse it, and it might become very annoying.

The best way to keep unwanted postings from your sight is to create your own forum\groups (For example “Concerned Parents” … )

Please send LDOnLine a private message if you like that idea.
LDOnLine

LDonline, the whole point is to counter the misleading info of these anti-meds posters. We are trying to help the new parents who are trying to find out the correct information so they can base their decision on good solid info not on the mad ravings of certain irresponsible posters. Creating a group of our own is not going to help these parents searching for help.

Rebelmom, I am in Buffalo, New York and the weather this week has been great here. Hopefully you will get the sun soon.

bump

Good reading!

Perhaps I am confused! I thought the idea was to present information from different perspectives and to allow adult individuals to decide what makes sense to them. There is no one here who is qualified to determine for the rest of us what information is “misleading”. In my personal observation, there is just as much (and maybe more) propaganda and “misleading information” on the “pro-med” side as on the “anti-med” side. I have stressed from my first posting here that I don’t appreciate people propagandizing for a particular point of view, but believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I want to know is the facts that their opinion is based on, and the source of these facts. I am perfectly capable of discerning which information seems most credible, and I believe others on this site are as well.

Just saying something doesn’t make it true, and denigrating people by using labels as “pro-med” and “anti-med” is not helpful. This is a controversial issue, for very good reasons - the scientists themselves have been arguing about it for 40 years! There are good reasons to see medications as beneficial, and there are good reasons to see it as dangerous. It depends on what you want and what risks you are willing to assume. As I said originally, there are issues of VALUES here that go way beyond the “science” of the situation. Let’s work on allowing people to have their views! I am happy to see any “pro-med” or “anti-med” postings, as long as they provide sources and respect my right to present my own information. Disrespectful postings should either be ignored, or reported.

Getting into long tirades about who is correct does nothing but obscure the facts. This should not be a format for enforcing religious dogma - it should be a forum for discussion. There will be a certain amount of conflict in views - that is GOOD! It keeps us all honest. If folks want a reflection of their own views, a mirror works great. A discussion board should allow for a wide range of views as long as they are presented respectfully. I am ready to leap on anyone that is out of line in the respect area, but let’s not judge people’s posts by the position they assume.

–— Steve

Walking on eggshells I see Steve. I am seeing an element here of pill crazy moms who are probably so stoned out on Paxil ect.. that they are pro-drug zealots.

Unable to admit or see the error of their ways they get quite bitchy when someone disagrees with them and prove them wrong. It sacres the crap out of them because they realize even in their twisted state of mind that their challenging child needs parenting not drugs.

I abhor zealotry in all of its forms, regardless of the goal. Don’t be the pot calling the kettle black.

[quote=”Steve”]I abhor zealotry in all of its forms, regardless of the goal. Don’t be the pot calling the kettle black.[/quote]

In my mind some forms of zeal are admirable especially when it can save innocent lives.

Certainly some things have a middle ground but when it comes to matters of right and wrong the line in my mind is no longer blurred.

When some charleton trys to make a parent believe that not medicating their child with a substance nearly identical to cocaine will condemn their child to a horrible life of crime by citing some made up statistic I will oppose them with zeal.

When the same people who advocate the drugging of children are unable to defend their position and refuse to listen to reason or confront their own ignorance I will confront them with zeal.

Some parents have a very distorted view of their role as parent. Parents first and foremost should be custodians of their children’s well being. They can’t do that by being ignorant and wishing to remain that way.

Here’s a question that will never be answered so I will answer it. How many doctors give their own children Ritalin? Answer DAMN FEW!

I actually have some very passionate views on these issues. But how effective are you in getting your message across? Zeal is one thing, but insults are rarely effective. And rhetoric is of little use without factual backup. Everyone’s got an opinion.

Steve, all I need do is type stimulant therapy into and search engine and you will find stacks of information pointing out it’s many dangers and long term ineffectiveness.

True, tons of information is available on the internet. However, anyone can post opinion on the internet and often it looks like it is research-based when it is not- or it is based on flawed research with small numbers and few controls.

My concern with meds (which I have always tried to keep to myself) is that there are no long term studies that assure me that long term use of meds is safe to growing children.

As a nurse, I have way too much respect for all meds to not take them seriously. They can do wonders for people but I have also seen meds that were previously considered safe to be discovered to have serious side effects. I think in desperate situations parents have to make difficult calls and I feel the need to respect that. I don’t judge parents who decide to do this because I could so easily be in their shoes.

I have been critisized for offering up ideas that help some parents (me included) avoid meds. I think parents need to be fully informed before making any decisions. I personally don’t think all the experts are fully informed.

I actually know way more adults that need meds than I do children. I fully believe that meds can change peoples lives. I also think that parents can change their childrens’ lives. There really aren’t any simple answers.

I guess we live in a world where people expect simple answers.

I have posted many times on the lack of long-term effectiveness of these drugs, and the viability of alternative approaches, and no one has really given me a hard time about it. You are preaching to the choir if you are trying to convince me. But I am asking you: how EFFECTIVE is your approach? Are you winning converts by insulting people? Or are you actually making it harder for people to see the alternatives, because you are so strident and insulting that it makes it easy to ignore your posts and make generalizations about “those anti-med people”? Insulting people results in anger, not enlightenment. Lighten up on the rhetoric! People are allowed to disagree. Just be respectful, and give the scientific basis of your opinion. If your opinion is well supported, why do you have to argue about it? Doesn’t the research speak for iteslf?

Steve,

Were your replying to me? I have always held back on my anti med discussion because I did not want to be associated with the other anti med voice on here.

I don’t think I insulted anyone. I think it is improper that people can’t feel comfortable discussing their reservations about meds because of one bad apple.
Sometimes I think that is why he is here. The anti med argument has been so throughly hijacked that reasonable reservations are lost.

No, Linda, I didn’t mean you!! I love your posts! I was talking to Ogden Roe (hence the “to O.R.” in the subject line). Sorry for any misunderstanding. You are a very respectful poster and I have the highest regard for your combination of tact and honesty.

–— Steve

Those dang subject lines are too small for my old eyes

:lol:

[quote=”Linda F.”]My concern with meds (which I have always tried to keep to myself) is that there are no long term studies that assure me that long term use of meds is safe to growing children. “”

Hi, lurker here. I have read this concern regarding stims for ADHD several times. I’m wondering, just how would a long term study be put together that would allow enough controls to allow for a clear determination that stims did or did not cause “a” and “b” to occur. How long would a ‘long term study be’? How would it control for lifestyle factors, enviornmental factors, general illness unrelated but occuring with stim administration, heredity, etc. How many studies would it take to ensure that long term use is without any risk? We have the 10 year study on brain volume that has dissproved the notion that stim use causes brain atrophy, but as in any good study, it has only raised more questions, and of course is not a comprehensive study covering all the body systems. Personally, I would be VERY suspect of any study that claimed that it covers all the bases and determined stims safe or unsafe for the longterm. So I guess I’m wondering from those that would like to see long term research on stims. What would this research look like to keep it from becoming junk research? :? I have yet to come up with a answer to this in my mind, and I’m not so sure that it is even possible.

I agree with your post, Roxy. There are so many variables, it is hard to know what causes what. It’s also different for each person who takes a particular drug. That’s one of the reasons we decided medication was just not an option for us. Even if we find the general research suggests a pretty good safety profile, that doesn’t mean that MY child will not experience long-term consequences. There are ALWAYS risks involved in any medication. For us, the risks just aren’t worth the benefits, no matter how many studies are done.

That being said, it might be worthwhile to do some retrospective studies with adults who were medicated as children to see what health outcomes might be associated with long-term stimulant therapy. Checking for certain outcomes that are likely to be associated with stimulants, such as heart problems, growth limitation, other mental health problems, etc. in comparison to matched adults not medicated might give us some information. However, the likelihood of such a study being funded in the near future seems small. I am afraid that we are all going to have to make up our own minds with the limited information available. It’s a tough call.

–- Steve

Thanks for your reply Steve. I hadn’t thought about a retrospective type study, that’s an interesting thought. I fear though that the results would be inconclusive as it would be impossible to control those variables. I guess what the goal would have to be would to simply see if there is or isn’t a statistically significant difference among the med treated ADHD population, unmedicated ADHD population (to try to control for what comorbid disorders might be associated to the ADHD itself ie. depression, anxiety, stress related disorders), and then the general population also.
But who would fund such a study is a big question. I’m not sure such a study would be worth the $ or effort, most likely it would simply leave too many unanswered questions and potentially misleading results that would be too easily left open to the readers interpretation.

And people tend to believe what they want to believe anyway. My observation is, all the variables you mention end up affecting the outcome much more than medication. It is a very complex interaction between temperament and environment that helps create (and solve) this particular problem. There are as many answers as there are families, and I seriously doubt that any particular treatment will ever emerge as the “right path”. We will all have to find our way with such science as becomes available, but our personal values will guide our decisions. Which is as is should be.

–- Steve