What defines bad enough?

Katrina,

There are certainly many kids who are having very real problems who narrowly miss the discrepancy requirements. For example, in my state, a child is LD with a 15 point discrpancy. But guess what? You cross state lines and may have a state which requires a 22 point discrepancy and suddenly the child is no longer LD!

Has he had a standardized achievement test like the Woodcock-Johnson or the WIAT? If so, please post his standard scores and you will get some specific help. (Post IQ scores, too if you have them).

What are you using to tutor him? He may neeed something like Reading Reflex-PhonoGraphix to improve his reading skills first of all.

I hate the attitude of those teachers. I’d probably have to get my child out of that school as I have low tolerance for that kind of thing.

Janis

I’m not sure what test it was that was given - I’ll check with my sister on scores and post them later. He actually reads pretty well for the most part. His biggest problem is organization skills. He loses everything, can’t get his locker combination open, doesn’t write down assignments correctly, etc. It’s difficult for me to help him when I don’t know if the assignments are even correct. I work full-time, but I have asked his teachers to email me his assignments or make a list for me to pick up on my break. His teachers don’t even respond to letters, and when I meet them face-to-face, they act as if I am wasting their time. I am not using a particular system to tutor him, just trying to help him understand the work at this point. I am new to this and rather uncertain as to how to go about this. We are supposed to have an IEP meeting this afternoon (my first attendance), and my sister is concerned. She had difficulty in school also, so she is very intimidated by teachers. They have had three previous meetings, which have been very ineffective. I’m not sure what questions to ask or what tests to request. We would love to get him out of this school, but unfortunately, there is no alternative school for 45 miles (we live in Valentine, NE). Any suggestions you might have would be a big help. I will try to get those scores posted today.

Katrina,

Then what is the IEP meeting for? I thought you meant he could not get an IEP since his scores were not low enough. The organizational issues relate to the ADHD. There do need to be some accommodations for that. First I need to know if he has an IEP or not. If not, then it sounds like he needs a 504 plan for the ADHD accommodations. Sadly, there are many regular teachers who do not understand ADHD and clearly do not like kids with it. That’s a hard thing to overcome, unfortunately, especially when ther are no other options. Is he on medication for the ADHD?

Janis

Sorry, I guess that’s really not the right term for it. The guidance counselor referred to it as an IEP meeting, but all they have done is review the standardized tests he was given and tell us he doesn’t qualify for special education. Two of his teachers haven’t shown up to any of the meetings. They discussed goal setting for him at the first two meetings, but they have since been uncooperative regarding making any accommodations for him. I assumed this was because he didn’t meet the criteria to be considered LD. The school psychologist said it is the teacher’s responsibility to help him with tests, etc. and they say that is her job. Either way, he isn’t getting the help he needs. At no point did they make up an individualized plan for him or have his parents sign anything in regards to changes in his schooling. The school simply dismisses any suggestions we make as unnecessary. I feel like we’re spinning our wheels at this point.

I understand. I’d now be advocating for a 504 plan to address the accommodations for the ADHD. If you need help on that, repost on the Parents of ADHD kids message board for that aspect. But as I probably said before, missing qualifying as LD does not mean that the problems go away; he very well may continue to need tutoring. If you post scores, you’ll get some advice on effective tutoring programs for his specific deficit areas.

Janis

My son also loses things alot. He can be very focused at times but is very inconsistant. The not copying from the board correctly is also very familiar.

Is it at all possible that this boy has a vision problem that would be helped by a developmental optometrist? My son reads well but can not sustain the effort.

If you notice things like:
Keeping eyes close to the page
Tilting the head when he reads
Headaches
Rubbing the eyes
Avoiding near work
Sloppy or poorly spaced writing

If he has even has some of these issues consider vision therapy. You could also ask him to follow your pen with his eyes without moving his head. Move the pen in circles, up and down etc.. If his eyes jump around or he finds this difficult it is another sign.
Kids with vision issues can look like they have add.

When I was in classrooms, 90% of my students had these behaviours. And some of my tutoring students are beyond belief — would you believe a high-performing kid from a good family etc. who manages to squirm out of her shoes and socks and put her bare feet on the table while reading? They are classic learned avoidance behaviours — if I rub my eyes and complain of a headache, most people will let me off doing schoolwork. You have to see the avoidance behaviours in a college math class to believe it — you would think from appearances that every person in there is in some way special ed. So investigate a little further before making conclusions.

College math, huh. I bet they were squirming. I didn’t take college math. I would have definitely been squirming. We use these avoidence behaviors when things are difficult.

If all near work is difficult and all near work produces this type of behavior one must consider that the difficulty may be related to a vision problem. Now, my son can concentrate on any mental exercise that is auditory. No problem and absolutely no avoidance.
Drawing, writing, puzzles and reading are all avoided and always have been. He even didn’t like TV and video games for the longest time. Now that is odd for a little kid to prefer books on tape to TV.
I should have figured out this vision thing long ago.

Make sure you understand the test scores and how to read the test scores. There is a great article on Wrightslaw that will help you understand this. Our school told me that our dd didn’t qualify for an IEP either. Our state uses a 20pt discrepancy. I knew enough to be dangerous on the test scores and when I added them up - there was a more than 20pt spread. I challenged them on it - it got all secretive, district big wigs were brought in and low and behold she all of a sudden qualified.

Ask them what they use for the discrepancy pt spread to qualify. Make sure they have an ability test (IQ test like Wisc) and an achievement test (like Woodcock Johnson). You look for the pt split between the ability vs. achievement. The other catch you need to look at is your subtests on the Wisc. My dd has a 30pt split between PIQ(performance) and VIQ(verbal). This makes the FSIQ(full scale) invalid and they are suppose to use the higher of the 2 for qualifing.

Again, Wrightslaw explains all this. Remember - they are counting on the fact that you have no clue as to what testing is, how to read tests and how to qualify. You are totally at their mercy if you don’t educate yourself. And believe it or not, it’s their mission to do as little as possible to help your nephew.(at least that has been my experience)

Qualification stuff aside, it soudns like teachers have decided that the kiddo is lazy and disorganized, and you just enable him by helping him so much and so often with his homework, and keeps hammering on the teachers to accommodate him. They probably firmly believe taht if only he were held accountable for things (organization, homework, independent learning) he would rise to the occasion.
Unfortunately, from their frame of reference they keep seeing their opinion reinforced. WHat you think of as several hours working on homewrok, they see as you holding his hand (and probably think that if you left him alone it might get done in half the time). And if this is true, then as long as they feel this way they are going to do everything within their power to “give him the chance to be independent.”
So… I’m brainstorming here… how to break that nasty chain?
Maybe figure out one thing for him to be working towards independence on — like a planner for homework, or a subject — something that he is *most* likely to be successful with. Maybe even just keeping track of homework in one class.
Come up with a plan for monitoring what he does and giving full support for a week — then backing off by one step for a day, two days, a week… and gradually backing off until he’s doing something independently.
Present this to the teachers, depending how good an actress you are, as your epiphany — you realize that yes, he needs to learn independence. Operative word: Learn. Ask if they are willing to, say, do the other accommodations like reading tests to him and letting him go to his locker for 4 subjects if his task is, for this week, to remember Math homework.
How are his reading skills? Have they been tested? Or do they just assume he can kinda sorta keep up?

In my school if ADHD affects learning (which this probably does) and it can be demonstrated they are placed on an IEP for Other Health Impaired. Please explain what type of reading problem he has - dyslexia is just a term to describe reading problems but specific examples are what’s needed to suggest remediation.

OK so if the OHI lable doesn’t work try mentioning 504, schools just love to write these as they are regular education functions. Also, ADHD is a medical diagnosis - has a Dr. diagnosed this disorder and if so it is necessary to have a letter written for the school to that effect to get help. One more thing to consider - is he on medication for the ADHD, if not that might need to be considered. I really have trouble support drug use for kids but some need it to think. If there is not a sufficient discrepancy - he isn’t LD

Change the approach - go for the Other Health Impaired for ADHD or get a 504. Either way it will require a medical diagnosis.

I’m sorry for you to have developed such a negative attitude about the system. The more everyone works together for kids the more success they will have. The biggest problem kids I have are from homes where the parents undermine the school. Please, for your childs sake, don’t share your views of the system with your child.

There’s a difference between undermining and being realistic. On the one hand as a teacher I have been undermined by parents many times; if I did anything different from last year I was automatically in the wrong, no idea that different might sometimes be better. Whe I got called into the office and got a dressing-down for following the curriculum or for enforcing the rules I had been told to enforse … On the other hand as a parent/teacher/tutor I have been flat-out lied to by school representatives enough times that I don’t trust them until they earn my trust. The time the school testing “expert” whited-out my written request onthe official form … You cannot undermine your kid’s whole life to back up the school’s authority. A happy medium and a serious attempt at objective judgement is called for.

I come from a family of teachers - my mother, my father, my aunts, my uncles - I grew up around faculty. My oldest son is non-LD and does great. I had no problems with this school, thought it was a terrific place.

My LD dd has opened my eyes and I am truely appalled by what parents of LD kids have to go thru (as well as the child). I am truly disappointed by the schools. I was lied too and they tried to cheat the system for Pete’s sake? These are the people teaching my kids? They literally fight me to do as little as possible and yet on the other hand praise themselves for how much they strive to help EVERY kid work to their potential. Well it’s not EVERY kid - it’s’ EVERY non-ld kid. How can you think I would not be resentful of this?

I love my dd’s classroom teacher as well as the one last year - she has been very lucky. However, I can’t even be in the same room as the principle of the school anymore- it just makes me too upset.

I DO NOT try to let my feelings flow to my kids. I don’t want them to have a negative feeling toward school. I want school to be a positive experience for both my kids.

I’m sorry your biggest problems are your parents like me. I hope you are being honest with them. I would ask yourself maybe why your parents are behaving the way they do? Do they have a valid reason?

I guess your post really bothered me. So do you think that by challenging the test results was undermining the school? and that therefore I’m a problem parent?

That is VERY disturbing to me. Working together is a two-way street. What the school did (and we are not the only family they did it too) was morally, ethically and professionally wrong( and probably legally too).

A good parent in my opinion should not stand for that and roll-over on this issue - because you think it ‘undermines’ the school. I do not get that reasoning at all.

If it were just a case of trying to get out of homework, perhaps I would agree with you. However, his behavior extends into his home life, even things he enjoys. This is a 24-hour a day problem that few people seem to have any understanding for. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for him to deal with, considering how difficult it has been for the rest of us. Plus, he has already been diagnosed by the doctor with ADHD, and his father has dyslexia. The more we investigate, the more we find out we’re right.

The school has definitely been uncooperative. The guidance counselor has been trying to be objective and find a solution, but the principal and several of his teachers just sit and make snotty comments, roll their eyes, etc. I have given them information on ADHD and dyslexia, and they just toss it on the table without even looking at it. It is a pretty intimidating situation when you feel like you’re on the defensive the entire time you’re meeting with them. He actually reads fairly well, unless he is under pressure. Then he starts mixing up letters and words, or substituting one word for another. I don’t think they have given him a specific test to determine reading level, but I will have to check on that. When we voiced concerns about his being held back, they just laughed and said at the most, he would be put in summer school. My beef with that is that they just push the kids through whether they are doing well or not just to get them out of their hair. I graduated with kids who could barely read or write because of that. Plus, summer school is taught by the same teachers he is having problems with now. Thank you for your suggestions. I will run that by his parents, and maybe we can try that.