New research, GREAT NEWS! The Truth, Reality, Facts.

and timely for me

I have taken ds off his meds for the summer and he has gained 7 much needed pounds. I have 99% commited to homeschool in the fall in lieu of 6th grade and I am really on the fence about the medication

It certainly helped him in school, especially with testing situations, but this will be a different ball game. It seems like we should be able to work around the inattentiveness and impulsivity with a one on one structure

Id been planning to keep him off the medication but, after reading this, I think I will feel less ‘guilty’ should things get rough and I need to bring back the Adderall(or perhaps try something else in hope of immproving weight)

Im still crossing my fingers that we can do without but this is good info

This is helpful information, but I did want to point out that the study referred to was not meant to measure whether stimulants helped brain growth and that the researchers did not draw any conclusions about that. Instead, the study was looking at whether stimulant medication caused certain parts of the brains of children with ADHD to become smaller. The study compared children with ADHD who were taking stimulants to those that were not and showed that ALL children with ADHD have frontal lobes (and white matter, I think) that are smaller than those without ADHD and that medication was not implicated in this. The data also showed that children in the study who treated with stimulants had slightly larger brains than those who were not, but that result was not sufficient to support any conclusions about whether stimulants promote brain growth. This was discussed in greater detail in messages posted on the old board. I’m not sure if they are retrievable from this board.

Andrea ( who gives her child adderall ).

I have to admit, this kind of article gets under my skin a little when it implies that people that choose NOT to use medication are somehow harming their children. I don’t think folks who use medication like being accused of child abuse. Neither do I!

We have raised 3 boys, two of whom would certainly qualify for an ADHD diagnosis, and we never used or considered medication. They are alive and well, the oldest graduated with honors from high school. He is highly comlimented for his hard work on the job, he never used drugs or committed any crimes, he has learned to be more sensitive to the needs of others, and even spontaneously cleans his room now! He’ll never be a good file clerk, but he is a wonderful person, who is going to be very successful in life. Our 7 year old is in his first year of school and has done quite well, and the teacher was quite shocked when I told him of his “ADHD” profile. We learned a lot from the first that we applied to the second. He is also not on drugs and we don’t plan to use them.

I really resent the implication that choosing not to medicate our children will impair their survival in the world. We have done a great job of parenting and our kids are going to do fine. We are proud of them and of ourselves. There are many different approaches to take, as there are many different families and values out there. Putting kids on medication involves known risks that some people are not willing to take. Each parent and family should be allowed to make that decision based on unbiased information about the pros and cons of each approach.

One thing that is NOT mentioned in that article is that years of research have not shown ANY long-term benefit of medication over non-medication in terms of learning, self-esteem, delinquency or other social outcomes. There do appear to be short-term benefits for a significant part of the ADHD population, but these benefits are primarily around local variables like completion of work and attention to task. Also, there are a good chunk (up to 30% in some studies) that don’t benefit from medication at all, and that is not including those that have to stop due to side effects.

Medication may be helpful with symptom management in the short term for a lot of kids, and may even have long term benefits for a smaller group, (even though the studies show no long-term benefit on the average). But to imply that failing to give medication is harmful to a child is a big leap that is NOT supported by the research that has been done. The decision to medicate or not is a very difficult one that involves not just science, but family and cultural values. I would like to see us support a diversity of interventions that people can select from instead of insisting on “one right way” to handle these wonderful and challenging children. I can guarantee from my own experience that there are non-medical approaches that worked for us.

Every child and every family is different. Let’s help each other find the best path for our child and our family. One size does not fit all!

I do understand what you are saying Steve.

I do believe, however, that there is a greater need for parents giving meds to feel okay about their decision than there is for those who have chosen to forego them. There are so many folks ready to lay the blame on poor parenting or lazy parents; it’s nice to see something ‘positive’ for a change

And, honestly, my take wasnt “Oh, good-the Adderall is growing his brain-lets up his dose”

It was, “phew, another study that says Im not harming my child”.

I hear you too Steve, I didn’t write the article, I just passed it on. It was very thoughtless of me not to consider that that part of the article would strike a nerve with parents choosing alternatives to meds. I just thought those of us who take a beating all the time for using meds in our regiment would feel a lesser load from this perspective. And here I have made you feel the way I feel pretty regularly, whenever I read about Tom Cruise lobbying against meds for kids, whenever I turn on Hannity and Combs, whenever I run into a Balldoodyhead. I agree that many people grow up fine with out meds. I am one of them. I think the article left out the important fact that the kids growing up drug addicts and criminals were not only unmedded, but likely had no type of therapy at all. Their parents were likely ignorant, didn’t understand them or just didn’t care enough to help them overcome or compensate.

My mother didn’t have meds to consider for me, they didn’t even know much about ADHD in th 70’s, but she sure seemed to do everything right. She capitalized on my traites and accepted my oddness. Not a day went by when she didn’t make me feel brilliant, funny and beautiful. I think any parent who is doing anything to help their child with this disorder is going to raise their child to their full potential. I don’t really believe it is all the meds. It’s the parents who deny ADHD exists or the ones neglecting the issues their kids face that should be made the way we are made to feel for helping our kids in our chosen way.

[quote=”Steve”]

One thing that is NOT mentioned in that article is that years of research have not shown ANY long-term benefit of medication over non-medication in terms of learning, self-esteem, delinquency or other social outcomes. There do appear to be short-term benefits for a significant part of the ADHD population, but these benefits are primarily around local variables like completion of work and attention to task. Also, there are a good chunk (up to 30% in some studies) that don’t benefit from medication at all, and that is not including those that have to stop due to side effects.

Actually, Steve, the research DOES support long term benefits of medication with respect to social outcome, most particularly with respect to drug abuse. Children who receive stimulant treatment are less likely, on average, to abuse drugs than children who did not receive stimulant treatment. There was quite a long discussion of this on the prior board as well. What the research does not yet show is any long-term educational improvement associated with stimulant treatment. What you have to remember is that research deals with groups of people, not individual. It tells you how MOST children will respond, not how particular children will do. Not every child with ADHD needs or can tolerate medication. Not every child with inattention, impulsivity and hyperactivity has ADHD. Your children are doing well without medication and that is a wonderful thing. Some others, even with the best, most highly motivated parents, will need the help that medication offers. What we all need, however, is reliable information so that we can evaluate our choices.

Andrea

Thanks for your consideration, all. I appreciate the supportive tone of the messages. I first want to clarify that no one made me feel bad - I chose to point out that viewpoint so people would think about it. I actually know I am a good parent, and I am sure that anyone searching websites for answers to challenges they face with children is also doing the very best by their child.

Perhaps the one part of my message I want to stress a little more is that I think it is possible for a wide divergence of PHILOSOPHICAL views on the nature of human beings and our rights and responsibilities exists, and this diversity informs our decisions at every turn. Science tries to provide absolute answers, but questions of ultimate truth really come down to values in the end. The sooner we realize this, the less hurt and strife we will cause each other.

So we make decisions regarding medication in a cultural context, and how we decide depends on what we stress as important. It was actually very important to us NOT to use medication under any circumstances, and we did everything under the sun to avoid it. I think that viewpoint is a very legitimate one for us to assume. I want everyone to know that it wasn’t a matter of “it wasn’t that bad”. It was. We just made a decision and stuck to it, because that’s what we thought was important. Others would not have made the same decision, because the value of not using medication was not as high for them as it was for us.

When people feel attacked, it is usually because someone is implying that their decision or action is wrong. I want to convey the idea that there IS NOT a “scientifically correct” way to approach this kind of situation. Each of us has a different set of values and skills and challenges to face, and each has to make the best decision they can under their particular circumstances. I am really imploring everyone to keep in mind that your solution might not be everyone’s solution, that it isn’t a true/false, right/wrong kind of a thing. It’s a learning process for all of us, and we bring our own prior learning and our goals and values with us to each decision, hence different people reach different conclusions based on the exact same data. I value sharing data, and even sharing conclusions, as long as we don’t insist that our conclusions must be agreed to by everyone else.

Regarding the drug use issue, there was a recent study that supported a decrease in drug use for medicated subjects, but there is also a recent study out of Berkeley that suggests an increased vulnerablilty, particularly to cigarette smoking. Having reviewed a lot of literature going back to 1970, I think the jury is still out on this one, but the bulk of the reviews of multiple studies suggest that there isn’t really a difference, or if it is, it isn’t very large.

But what I am really objecting to through mentioning long-term studies is the implication that ADHD has all these horrible outcomes and therefore everyone must get their kids on medication. The studies just don’t support that conclusion. It is a short-term intervention, but as all of you know, raising these kids reqires patience, creativity, and love beyond the usual measure, regardless of treatments or other interventions one might choose. I think we should respect each other and the kids enough to recognize that we are doing a lot of wonderful work, and that, meds or no meds, these kids will generally turn out really great if we love and care for them and do what we need to do for them as parents. And if we don’t, no amount of medication will make up for us choosing to neglect our parental challenges.

So kudos to everyone who has survived thus far with the challenges of raising these kids. I hope my attempt at consciousness raising has not offended anyone, and if it has, I apologize. These decisions are difficult and there is a lot of propaganda to sift through on both sides of the medication fence. I trust each of you to filter through that with integrity, and I support you doing what you feel you need to do to help your special children get to adulthood.

–- Steve

And, I forgot to add for Mary: It is DEFINITELY a relief to know that brain shrinkage is not an unknown side effect! I understand that many who choose medication do so with trepidation and concern, which I would never want to minimize. I don’t think any of us should be attacked for our views. And believe me, I have heard plenty of hostile attacks in both directions. I guess that’s my basic point - attacks don’t lead to understanding, and disagreement is tolerable if communicated with mutual respect. I appreciate both your views and your respect for mine!

–- Steve

My son would have qualified for the study initially. He had all the symptoms of ADHD. After remediation of his underlying deficits he does not look very adhd. We haven’t used meds. Did his brain grow? I would like to know.

I would like to see kids receiving IM, OT and vision therapy included in the study to see if those things have a similar long term effect as meds.

One of the interesting things to me is that there seems to be a correlation to adhd kids and a decrease in size of the areas of the brain that control motor funcitioning. So if we improve motor functioning through intensive therapy can we cure adhd in some people?

I agree with another speculation from Castellanos that I read elsewhere. He implies that ADHD will be discovered to be several different conditions.

Whatever works for you as a parent!

I can’t agree with what ever works for parents. Unless and until proper diagnosis is done and all non-drug altenatives have been explored we can’t go taking what appears to be the easy way out without consdering the needs of the child first.

Of all the children on medications today one must ask how many actually need them? How many have been properly diagnosed?

Kelly, I agree with your point that meds should be a last resort and I don’t think anyone on this site would disagree with you.
I think that parents on this board do consider the child’s needs first.

When Linda F said “Whatever works for you as a parent” I’m sure she meant “Whatever the parent finds to help the child” and that she had no intention to not include the child’s needs. This is all about the child. The recipe for success is different for each child.

In my opinion drugs are a recipe for disaster. Truth be told ADHD is a shaky diagnosis at best.

There are many very smart people with no self interest who think it is an invented disease to sell drugs.

[quote=”Faydrah”]In my opinion drugs are a recipe for disaster. Truth be told ADHD is a shaky diagnosis at best.

There are many very smart people with no self interest who think it is an invented disease to sell drugs.[/quote]

There isn’t one smart person who thinks that, only cult members and friendless, unemployed, unmarried trolls beleive that.

Yeah, thats it, we are all imagining the hell we live in. That our kids can’t hold a thought for a second because we didn’t get dinner on the table at the same time every night. Guess my kid can’t sit still because I sleep deprived him all his life… I made up the fact that he has a 134 IQ but can’t be educated. All the studies backed up with references and supported by every credible group, organization and national associations are wrong sespite all the evidence. You and people like you with no proof, no crdible studies, no real evidence, no facts to post aT ALL EXCEPT FOR YOUR LITTLE ITTY BITTY PERSONAL FEELINGS are right and the whole rest of the world are wrong, yea the who world, all the doctors, scientists teachers, researchers. It is all a big conspiracy to trick us into buying drugs because there is such a huge shortage of ill people in the world. Yea, you’re brilliant. Show us some real facts you didn’t have to make up. Show us a study that has an ounce of credibility. A study where rats weren’t given 10X the max dose any child has ever been perscribed. Lets see some info that you didn’t have to **** with. We are all waiting to prove you wrong.

Hey Faydra

Medication, not drugs, changed my sons life completely. He is a whole boy on low doses of amphets. Here is a short list of things my son cannot do without meds. Its really much much longer, but…you’ll get the picture; Then again, being blind…maybe you won’t.

get dressed
play
sit still
show appropriate affection
recieve affection
open a wrapper
pee into the bowl
get out the door
cross the street
get in the car
get out of the car
cross the street
get in the door
sit at the table
go to bed early
sleep late
have a conversation with a beginning, middle and an end

Any one who thinks my son needs good old fashion dicipline and love and shouldn’t be medicated is free to have him for the week. I’ll even let you use natural remedies and biofreakinfeedback. Just let me know, I’ll stop meds the doctors and teachers tricked me into believing he needed. HA! Didn’t think so.

Love your response!
My son’s single most iritating quality or behavior has to be that before his meds kick in in the am he is totally wacko. If someone were to see it, I think they would call the twinky truck. When the meds kick in its 180 degree turn! Thats why we added Straterra, it seems to be taking the edge off the animal noises, wall banging, conversations with people who clearly are not finished sleeping etc.

Also, wish he were nicer to his 6 year old twin brother and sister, but deep down inside he still hasn’t come to terms with the fact I ever brought them home from the hospital!

Worst symtom:
Reading a word over and over again within seconds like the word ‘over’ in this sentence, and not being able to remember what the word is.
Nothing dramtic here just frustrating.
Other symtoms: Lanuage fluency problems and tics when on Concerta

Worst time:
A one week vacation where we dropped Concerta for Provigil to see if we could get away from the stims. This was scarey for us.

Best time:
Now. We are understanding that Concerta does work, and understanding the compromises and limitations of it. We remain optomistic about Straterra and are seeing some benefits. Tics are going fast, language fluency is coming back very well. We will try Aricept over the next 6 weeks or so and we will report on it.

Worst thing we have tried so far…
Doing nothing

Thanks for the excellent thread

[quote=”infodad”][quote=”Faydrah”]In my opinion drugs are a recipe for disaster. Truth be told ADHD is a shaky diagnosis at best.

There are many very smart people with no self interest who think it is an invented disease to sell drugs.[/quote]

There isn’t one smart person who thinks that, only cult members and friendless, unemployed, unmarried trolls beleive that.

Yeah, thats it, we are all imagining the hell we live in. That our kids can’t hold a thought for a second because we didn’t get dinner on the table at the same time every night. Guess my kid can’t sit still because I sleep deprived him all his life… I made up the fact that he has a 134 IQ but can’t be educated. All the studies backed up with references and supported by every credible group, organization and national associations are wrong sespite all the evidence. You and people like you with no proof, no crdible studies, no real evidence, no facts to post aT ALL EXCEPT FOR YOUR LITTLE ITTY BITTY PERSONAL FEELINGS are right and the whole rest of the world are wrong, yea the who world, all the doctors, scientists teachers, researchers. It is all a big conspiracy to trick us into buying drugs because there is such a huge shortage of ill people in the world. Yea, you’re brilliant. Show us some real facts you didn’t have to make up. Show us a study that has an ounce of credibility. A study where rats weren’t given 10X the max dose any child has ever been perscribed. Lets see some info that you didn’t have to **** with. We are all waiting to prove you wrong.[/quote]

You are not the one living in hell your child is. I think that logic would dictate that thiss million and millions of children who are “medicated” everyday are not really defective.

Infodad answer this. Being that Methyphenidate aka Ritalin is so cheap to make why is it so expensive to buy? Do you think it may have somthing to do with obscene profits.

Come back tomorrow and I will have all sort of proof from all sorts of sources…So much it will make your head swim!

As a Certified Family Life Educator through the National council on
Family Relations I appreciate beyond telling your courage in exposing ADD
and ADHD as medical fraud. The large numbers of out of control children are
a result of attachment breaks caused by seperation from mothers returning to
work as early as 6 weeks after giving birth. The research on attachment and
bonding has been around for more than 50 years. Clearly parents need
improved behavior management skills in dealing with their children, a solid
understanding of the difference between punishment and discipline. Medical
providers as well as insurance companies must require parents to get better
informed as to how to be effective parents. Please ask more of parents than
simply to take their children off drugs. Anything I can do to assist you
would be my pleasure! My husband is a pharmacist and tells anyone who will
listen exactly what you are saying! Our Email address is
[email protected]

Here you are InfoDad and more will follow

disease” (real diseases—epilepsy, brain tumor, multiple sclerosis, etc.) or “no disease” (emotional, psychological, psychiatric) diagnoses daily, he has discovered and described real, bona fide diseases.

It is this particular medical and scientific background that has led him to view the “epidemic” of one particular “disease”—Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)—with increasing alarm. Dr. Baughman describes this himself. Referring to psychiatry, he says:

“They made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive—termed them a ‘disease.’ Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term ‘research.,’ has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically—the “epidemic” having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today—this remains the state of the ‘science’ of ADHD.”

In addition to scientific articles that have appeared in leading national and international medical journals, Dr. Baughman has testified for victimized parents and children in ADHD/Ritalin legal cases, writes for the print media and appears on talk radio shows, always making the point that ADHD is fraudulent—a creation of the psychiatric-pharmaceutical cartel, without which they would have nothing to prescribe their dangerous, addictive, Schedule II, stimulants for—namely, Ritalin (methylphenindate), Dexedrine (dextro-amphetamine), Adderall (mixed dextro- and levo-amphetamine) and, Gradumet, and Desoxyn (both of which are methamphetamine, ‘speed,’ ‘ice’).

The entire country, including all 5-7 million with the ADHD diagnosis today, have been deceived and victimized; deprived of their informed consent rights and drugged—for profit! It must be stopped. Now

Hey Gang! Here is an intersting lawsuit that says, once again, you are lying.

Here is the truth;

SAN DIEGO, March 13 /U.S. Newswire/ — In a victory for sound medicine and free speech, a federal judge in California has dismissed a class-action lawsuit claiming that the American Psychiatric Association (APA) conspired with others to improperly broaden the diagnosis of Attention Deficit/Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD).

In a March 8 ruling, Senior U.S. District Judge Rudi Brewster said the plaintiffs had failed to state a legally viable claim against the APA and other defendants, and had produced no evidence to support their allegations. In addition, the judge ruled that activities by defendants intended to advance the medical understanding, diagnosis and treatment of ADHD were free speech protected under California’s anti-SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation) statute.

“The ruling confirms that this lawsuit, and others like it, have no basis in law or fact,” said Dr. Steven M. Mirin, medical director for the APA, based in Washington, D.C. “ADHD is a real disease that requires professional diagnosis and treatment. This is a victory for parents seeking to act in the best interests of their children.”

The California lawsuit and similar suits filed in federal courts in Texas, Florida and New Jersey claimed that APA had conspired with a patient support group, Children and Adults with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (CHADD), and a pharmaceutical company, Novartis, to invent or exaggerate ADHD as a disorder. APA was specifically accused of improperly broadening the clinical diagnosis of ADHD in its authoritative Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

“There is no evidence to support these outrageous claims”, said Mirin, adding that he was “pleased, but not surprised” by the ruling. “The existence of ADHD is based on a mountain of widely accepted scientific evidence accumulated over decades of research, as well as clinical experience from treating — and helping — millions of children,” he said.

Specifically, the judge ruled that:

APA and the other defendants in the suit “have met their burden of showing that the anti-SLAPP statute applies, because the speech at issue is clearly speech protected under the United States and California Constitutions in connection with a public issue.”

The plaintiffs “failed to show misrepresentation of any material facts, by whom any misrepresentations were made, when any misrepresentations were made, and where any misrepresentations were made as required by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.”

The complaint “fails to state a cause of action because of a number of defects, including the absence of any allegations of causation, actionable conduct or damage.”

Judge Brewster said the plaintiffs could amend their complaint, but warned that he would dismiss the case again unless the plaintiffs “could file a legally proper complaint and come forward with sufficient evidence to proceed.”

You Melinda are the only fraud on this post!

Hi Joleen, thanks for this opportunity. You haven’t posted any facts, only rambling bolony that no one is reading. They are only reading the factual posts. You know, the ones from people who have children.

XENU! XENU! XENU! Thats for you Jloeen!

Here, this is for the rest of you;

The most radical response to the rise in ADHD diagnoses is the charge that ADHD does not in fact exist. There are many staunch proponents of this viewpoint. A few interesting comments:

Practicing neurologist Fred Baughman, Jr. MD says that ADHD is “a creation of the psychiatric-pharmaceutical cartel,” and claims that “the entire country, including all five to seven million with the ADHD diagnosis today, have been deceived and victimized; deprived of their informed consent rights and drugged—for profit! It must be stopped. Now!” Baughman has authored a website at http://www.adhdfraud.com, intended to expose the fraudulence of the disorder.
A March 2002 article in The Weekly Standard asks: “Are we really prepared to redefine childhood as an ailment, and medicate it until it goes away?”
Conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh believes ADHD “may all be a hoax.”
Columnist Thomas Sowell writes: “The motto used to be: ‘Boys will be boys.’ Today, the motto seems to be, ‘Boys will be medicated.’”
Francis Fukuyama, author of “Our Posthuman Future,” writes: “No one has been able to identify a cause of ADD/ADHD. It is a pathology recognized only by its symptoms.” Fukuyama also believes Ritalin is part of a growing trend to androgenize young children; he states that “together, the two sexes are gently nudged toward that androgynous median personality … that is the current politically correct outcome in American society.”
Author Thomas Armstrong writes: “ADD is a disorder that cannot be authoritatively identified in the same way as polio, heart disease or other legitimate illnesses.”
A website entitled “Death From Ritalin: The Truth Behind ADHD” details anecdotal evidence of children dying from prescription Ritalin use. The website’s author claims her son died as a result of using the drug, and urges parents to “come together and fight this horrific war against the drugging of our children, America’s future!”
(Fumento, 2003)

Thus, the primary evidence against the existence of ADHD is the lack of a specific test which differentiates ADHD children from healthy children, and the fact that the specific cause of ADHD is unknown.

Evidence supporting the existence of ADHD:

The lack of a specific test that determines whether or not someone has ADHD does not preclude the existence of the disorder; neurological diseases such as Alzheimer’s and psychological disorders such as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder also lack conclusive laboratory testing procedures. Dr. Russell Barkley, professor of psychology at the College of Health Professionals at the Medical University of South Carolina, comments: “Where are the lab tests for headaches and multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s? Such a standard would virtually eliminate all mental disorders.” (Fumento, 2003)
The fact that the cause of ADHD is unknown also does not preclude its existence; Alzheimer’s, Schizophrenia, and other neurological disorders have nebulous causes as well.
ADHD has been related to genetic factors; University of Colorado researchers have found that a child whose identical twin has the disorder is between 11 and 18 times more likely to also have it than is a non-twin sibling (Fumento, 2003).
When the DSM-IV description of ADHD is taken into consideration and proper clinical testing procedures are used, doctors are able to distinguish between normal childhood behavior and the symptoms of ADHD.
The following medical institutions all identify ADHD as a very real and treatable disorder:

The American Psychiatric Association (APA)
American Medical Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Child Adolescent Psychiatry
The Surgeon General’s office
The Diagnostic Statistical Manual
After a three-day conference on issues related to ADHD, the Deputy Assistant Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Agency said: “I … want to emphasize that medical authorities do believe that ADHD is a distinct health problem affecting some children who can be helped by these drugs when prescribed after careful diagnosis.”

I think you should realize that I am certainly in the camp of meds as last resort. I wrote that to support parents and as recognition that the parents that come here looking for answers have certainly looked at the issue from all sides.

I don’t medicate my child. I also don’t berate parents who do.

[quote=”Melinda”]As a Certified Family Life Educator through the National council on
Family Relations I appreciate beyond telling your courage in exposing ADD
and ADHD as medical fraud. The large numbers of out of control children are
a result of attachment breaks caused by seperation from mothers returning to
work as early as 6 weeks after giving birth. The research on attachment and
bonding has been around for more than 50 years. Clearly parents need
improved behavior management skills in dealing with their children, a solid
understanding of the difference between punishment and discipline. Medical
providers as well as insurance companies must require parents to get better
informed as to how to be effective parents. Please ask more of parents than
simply to take their children off drugs. Anything I can do to assist you
would be my pleasure! My husband is a pharmacist and tells anyone who will
listen exactly what you are saying! Our Email address is
[email protected][/quote]

WHAT A LOAD OF CROCK!!!!! If all else fails blame the parents!
You are such a fraud.

My son used to do that. It was related to an undiagnosed vision problem. He doesn’t do it anymore since that has been dealt with.

Never mind forgetting whole words he even used to do that with letters. He would see and A and then not recognize it a minute later.

Well, I am astounded! How did we get from “as a non-medicating parent, I would appreciate not being accused of child abuse” to this deteriorating diatribe of hostile attacks?

Let’s face it, folks - THIS IS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE!!!! The science that has been done is NOT giving clear support for this diagnosis - it is very confusing and equivocal. Nor are the claims of disastrous outcomes for every medicated kid true in the majority of cases. There appear to be short-term benefits from drugs but no real change in long term outcomes on the average. Kids on medication don’t appear to do better, nor do they particularly appear to do worse.

There are also some drastic and horrible outcomes that can result from drug use, and it is TOTALLY understandable that rational people might hesitate to travel this path, especially when the long term benefits are questionable. However, these kids are EXTREMELY TOUGH to handle, and require patience and skills that few of us are born with or have been taught. So I disagree with anyone calling anyone names or accusing anyone of abuse or neglect based on this medication issue.

Medication is one of MANY possible interventions, the same thing DOESN’T work for every family, and there is lots of pressure and disinformation on BOTH SIDES of this issue. This is a SOCIAL PHENOMENON, and people are making difficult decisions based on their PERSONAL VALUES. Since we don’t all share the same personal values, and we don’t all have the same information, we come to different conclusions. WHY DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO BE WRONG??!!!!

I will reiterate: I chose NOT to medicate my children, and never will, because THAT IS AN IMPORTANT VALUE TO ME. Others do not share this value, and they are welcome to their viewpoint. They are NOT welcome to trash me and suggest that only cultists or deluded maniacs would take this position!!! My kids didn’t use meds and they are FINE. There is nothing wrong with them. Medications are NOT essential for kids survival, and if people want to make other choices, WHY SHOULDN’T WE SUPPORT THEM IN DOING SO? Is this too threatening a position? If so, maybe whoever is reacting this way needs to take a look at their own position - resorting to negative rhetoric is perhaps a sign that maybe you don’t have your facts down and are feeling anxious that your position may be wrong. Just LISTEN to the facts and SEE WHAT MERIT THEY MAY HAVE. Resorting to the fact that “other people agree with me” doesn’t mean you are correct!

On the other hand, if people choose to use medication, THAT IS YOUR OPTION! These kids are difficult, and there are lots of pressures and difficulties out there that make parenting even more isolating and challenging today than it has been in the past. I don’t like hearing folks making others feel guilty about their decisions by using terms like “fraud”, etc. It just does nothing to forward the conversation to be belligerant like that. I have NO PROBLEM with another person making a different decision than me, because I recognize the differences in values and information and situations that cause people to make different decisions. I believe people have to figure this one out for themselves.

What I DO have a problem with is when professionals create convenient explanations that are not supported by facts, and pass them off as “science”. That’s why I started down this road, because the original article jumped from “stimulants (in this study) were not shown to damage the brain” to “anyone that questions stimulant use is supporting child abuse”. That’s why I brought up the long-term studies that don’t show any benefits for kids when medicated over not being medicated - so people will be INFORMED of the FACTS, so that they can make an INFORMED DECISION. My point was that stimulants may create some short-term easing of the “symptoms”, but don’t really make a difference in the long run, so the knee-jerk assumption that all kids diagnosed with ADHD MUST be medicated is simply not supported by the facts. This is not to criticize those who have chosen to use medication - it is simply to point out that medication is not necessary or sufficient to do the job. I want parents to value their own and their child’s contribution to their progress, rather than crediting the drugs with everything positive that happens. There is some great parenting advice available here. I hate to see it obscured by a bunch of hostile rhetoric!

So PLEASE, understand that not everyone has to share your position. to suggest that “There isn’t one smart person who thinks that, only cult members and friendless, unemployed, unmarried trolls beleive that,” certainly detract from reasonable arguments that medication supporters might make, and in fact, give the appearance of a cultlike adherence to dogma that you appear to be criticizing in your post. There are PLENTY of smart, married, employed and happy people that believe this whole phenomenon is way out of control. The fact that you disagree with them doesn’t make them stupid, friendless or unemployed.

This is a DIFFICULT AREA. It is clearly one where INTELLIGENT PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE. There is nothing to be gained by attacking people that disagree with you. Medication is a CHOICE that some people make for their child and their circumstances. There ARE other legitimate choices, including the choice to believe that ADHD is an invented disorder, as well as the choice to believe that some children have an undetectable brain problem that requires drugs. Let’s admit that we don’t have the answers and share the information we have in a non-hostile fashion. Otherwise, we all lose out on perspectives that might broaden our view of the world. Unless, of course, your main goal is to be RIGHT, in which case, you will learn nothing.

I appreciated the original responses of RebelMom and others who showed sensitivity to the feelings of others that might not agree with their viewpoint. I would like to encourage us all to resume that kind of exchange.

–- Steve

Steve your Lucid argument makes sense but when asked to prove my point by a pro-drug poster I did by presenting several studies that comclusively prove the detrimental effects of stimulant therapy. as a result my posts were deleted and my IP was banned. I am back here from my work computer and I will keep coming back and telling the truth.

The people who run this site are extremely pro-drug and some of the posters are indeed moderators on the “unmoderated forum.”

They will not appreciate you.

I was very happy to see lots of normal exchanges on here the last few days. But I was not happy to see this one come back to the top, but I too am guilty of that just by replying to you. Steve, these tits will have to be allowed there tats. The best thing members like you and I can do is not add to the “VIEW” numbers and let them drop away under more civil posts and replies and exchanges. Trolls are a hazard of the trade and always will be. There will always be people more than willing to dispute them and uncover them for what they are. It is clear, I too, have a hard time letting lies get posted or false, twisted information in an attempt to make a parent feel bad for doing what is best for their particular child’s situation. I’m sure the posters defending meds do not mean to critize non-medders, just as I did not on this thread.

That being said, I’d like to respectfully make a request, I hope you do not see this as petty, I have a pretty hard skin, but this is important to a lot of people. We never ever refer to prescribed and properly controlled and administered medicines as “drugs”. Drugs are illegal substances sold by criminals for the purpose of getting high and abusing. Our kids aren’t getting high, their grades and behavior are evident of that. Our kids aren’t abusing their meds or getting addicted, we are in full control. I don’t care what the dictionary says. In todays society, the word drug is a dirty word and we go out of our way to make sure our kids understand the difference between the two. Being blessed with a situation that doesn’t require meds, I’m certain this is just semantics for you. But thanks for your consideration on this. We are all in the same boat, just using different oars.

PS
For the over a year after diagnosis I wrote posts feeling meds were wrong and tried every alternative. I have never ever been thrown off a site. I know how to treat people and make my point with facts.

Incidentally, I found many things that worked a little, but none were enough and meds offered that little something more. Our meds never do enough alone. We use diet and exercise and good oldfashion love and patience. If I take one of these treatments away, the recipe is ruined. I don’t believe there is any long term benefits to meds, not directlky to the ADD, but yes, to self esteem and general happiness. Honestly, I’m not looking for long term use so I am not concerned with long term effects. Studies show most kids don’t need their meds by high school, they have learned on their own how to control their symptoms. I think by using alternative treatments, I’m empowering my son with the ability to, someday, stay straight thinking without meds. In the meantime I will try and steer him the right direction to build a life where it is OK to be him. A life full of square holes he can fit in.

Thanks for your responses. I have felt all along that you are willing to see this as a multifaceted issue. I was not particularly meaning anything pejorative by the word “drug”, but can appreciate your sensitivity. This is a highly emotional issue and words do take on connotations. I felt encouraged by the inital responses that this was a forum that respected different options. I was pretty shocked by the recent outbursts, and I’m pleased to see a couple of more measured posts.

I was actually told by someone outside this arena that people had posts deleted for proposing non-medicated solutions. I am happy to see that my posts are still standing. I have made every attempt to present my views in a non-threatening way. I am hopeful that if others do the same, their posts will be read and considered. But I am concerned by a lot of the posts in this thread, which seem to be focused on polarizing the issue. I just don’t think that is helpful. I am happy to hear people’s views, but expect respectful listening to mine and each others’. Othewise, there is no point in having a BBS. Thanks to RebelMom and Guest2 (and the other supportive posters previously) for your support.

–- Steve

Steve,

Read some of Rebel Moms past post she appears now to be singing another tune.

Try posting the results os the many studies that prove that Ritalin causes brain shrinkage and see what happens. If it is Pro Ritalin it stays. If it is anti-Ritalin it goes. Why do you think that is?

You may be right. I am taking the approach I am because of some of the things I have heard about this site being hostile to alternative thinking. I want to encourage an openness to new info. I did post about the lack of long-term positive outcomes with stimulants without any particular flak. I think that fact has big implications. If there is no positive long-term benefits of medication, and there is a fairly high risk of serious side effects, and the long-term risks of medication are unknown due to very few studies being done, I think that ought to give anyone pause to consider whether this is a generally useful intervention. I have no interest in arguing with people about choices they make - it doesn’t go anywhere, any more than anyone would have a chance of convincing me to use Ritalin on my kids no matter what they presented. I am more concerned with people who have doubts or who haven’t decided or who have decided against medication and are feeling pressured to cave in. I think those folks deserve to know that many, many parents choose not to medicate their children for ADHD and the kids turn out just fine.

Again, I don’t object to people making different decisions based on their own value system. I do object to taking shaky theories with minimal scientific backing and using them to browbeat or scare people into believing that failing to medicate a child will lead to inevitable failure, or that medicating them will lead to inevitable success. It just ain’t so - my family is living proof. So if anyone wants to have a go at alternative approaches, I want them to feel completely empowered to do so without any feeling of guilt or uncertainty that they are somehow depriving their child of opportunities by choosing not to medicate. Medication is an option, neither essential nor sufficient for any child’s survival. There are no simple solutions, because (as someone noted above), “ADHD” is probably not one entity, but a set of behaviors that may have dozens of possible causes. To suggest that we know all about this syndrome and that medication is the only or necessarily the best answer is just plain arrogant. But it is equally arrogant for me to make someone else feel bad about their decisions just to make myself feel stronger about my position. I know where I come from and I have a heck of a lot of research backing me up. I don’t need to convince anyone, but I do feel a need to share what I know so that others can incorporate that knowledge into their data banks in whatever way they can do that. What they do with that information is up to them.

–- Steve

Steve,
It sounds like you missed the first hour of a movie and are trying to figure out the plot. There is one person and one person only being banned from this site. He keeps coming back, as he has dynamic IPs, but they are all from the same server. And they are all the same 6 or 8 things he says over and over again. The mods have been very informative with us about him.

If a person comes here looking for answers, willing to share advice, experience and history or just looking to vent about their experience with ADD, they would never be banned. That is obvious in the fact that you have been very vocal, written venting posts and have choosen not to med, yet you posts remain intact, you recieve meaningful replies and your IP never denied. This site is dedicated to people who want to support others and people looking for support. It is not here to debate the very essence of this boards existance or for someone to get back at his mean mommy by taking it out on better moms. If you aren’t here to do that, you won’t be allowed to stay very long. Plain and simple. This stinks, because many nonmedders got a bad rap having this clown and his false info represent their side. There were many like you here before and we all posted in harmony. But now most of them are gone, that is why this board looks so one sided, and that stinks becuase a good board needs ying and yang.

This one sad soul posing as many sad souls has written posts using very foul and anti-female remarks. He has called us drug addicts and child killers. Our most earnest and sincere (not even about meds) posts were replied to with things like “Smack him around some more, he’ll learn to sit still.” “Let him have a snort, he’ll pay attention” He was even ripping apart holistic therapies like exercise and diet and even love. He went to the adult LD boards and posted disgusting things he’d like to do to “STUPID GIRLS”. Get the picture? Thats who we are dealing with. Before we realized he was a troll, we spent many a day respectfully explaining to him what each of us went through before we resorted to meds. When he still wrote offensive posts, we wasted a lot of time explaining how our kids lives were saved by medicines. His ability to copy and paste is no reflection on his knowlegde. He thought when we were talking about tics that our kids had the bug ticks. He wrote posts claiming amphets caused Tardiv dyskensia(not one case ever!), then totally misdescribed it. If it wasn’t so pathetic it might have been funny, but he just went on embarressing himself.

As he changed names and tried to calm down (He was writing full page posts that were deleted in less than an hour, big waste of time) we learned to pick out his writing style and the taunting way he posted information. He is posting even today and his style is recognizable even still. He’ll blow his cork soon and when he does, they will ban him and delete his posts.

Finally we traced some of his posts back to bizaar propoganda sites and Chiro therapy sites. Was this all just some chiropractor trying to drum up business? Back cracking for ADHD children is the latest greatest scam and likely the most dangerous one to date. He even left an email addy where we could go to have our kids back adjusted, this would cure their ADD. The other main site was a very one sided site for fathers. The site opposed the craziest things, not just medicating kids, but; divorce, child support payments, womens rights, government, mother’s custody. Not only that but it offered support and advice to get off on rape charges, avoid child support, how to get away with hitting your wife, kidnapping yourkid. Psycho. It was then that I realised this guy was psycho! And I stopped reading and replying and just as usual with the board.

Won’t be long now before you see what we mean. I thought you should know who is pretending to be your buddy. I would have told you sooner, but seemed to be catching on pretty well. But I felt bad when you said you heard the mods were banning non medders. I also feel bad he has put some of us in a position where we are offending good people.

Rebelmom, I hope you save that post somewhere on your computer so that you can pull it out if needed. It seems that we are constantly having to warn newcomers about the Ball aliases. I’m really impressed at the time you have taken to expose the problem. I hate to think that folks that haven’t chosen medication might be frightened off. People like Steve can share a lot.

Steve, Rebelmom is right. We are not judgemental about whether a person chooses to medicate or not medicate and we are very respectful of either decision. We have been on this board a long time, and it was a really good and helpful board, until this “Ball” lunatic started posting really offensive posts. Now as Rebelmom has said, even though he tries to impersonate other people (and he has used other members’ name to post really obscene, character assassinating posts) he is trying to change personalities again and pretend to be your friend. But the older members of the board can tell from his posts who he really is. We don’t even bother to respond to his post, we just tell the moderators.

He even told someone on the adult board who was looking for help to “kill herself”. So Steve, know who you are dealing with.

We welcome you to the boards. Anybody who is sensible and sensitive to others and is here to help is always welcomed. All opinions are welcomed if it doesn’t deteriorate to the disgusting level this Ball person always brings it down to.

By the way, he seems to like to attack Rebelmom, whom we all respect and who, as you can tell is always respectful in her response to others.

Fascinating! I am always amazed at the intensity that this issue seems to generate. As I have said, I have difficulties with people trying to force their views on others, regardless of the view taken. So far, most of y’all have been extremely respectful, which I have appreciated. Maybe we can start creating a space again where those who have philosophical objections to medication can peacefully coexist with those whose views differ. I hope I have been able to contribute to creating or re-creating such a space.

Steve,

I find your posts very interesting. I hope you continue on this board.

I ask that you consider registering. As stated by others, we have had one poster “steal” names ie post under your username. He used my initials once and managed to post 17 very insulting posts in one night. Busy little guy! Anyway, once you register he can not use your name.

Thanks for the invite! I guess I am lazy about that sort of thing. I figure if someone else tried to pretend to be me, it would be pretty obvious. I think I am hard to imitate! But I’ll give it some thought…

Steve I used to post on these boards before they made a forum change and unless I missed something I don’t recall reading any offensive posts to which these ladies are refering.

I would reccomend you not register as you will get spammed really bad.

I do recall a poster getting the better of a few of the more stridnet but less informed moms and I thought it was hilarious.

I do recall Ball taking some teachers to task about working hours and salaries and leaving out any and all political correctness.

I have also seen the accuse every poster who is against drugging to be Ball. Don’t take my word for it. Do a search. That may not yield much because a lot has been deleted and other posts can manufactured.

I am not calling any specific a liar other than to say don’t take any wooden nickles in Comack.

Steve, I haven’t recieved any SPAM and I can assure you that you are not the type to be banned. I think this entire thread should be reviewed by the moderators to check if Ball is at work.

Wow, I’ve never been spammed from this board either.

Guest2 is correct about there no longer being any offesive posts. The mods deleted them.

The sad thing to me is that Ball is very intelligent and could be a valued member of this board if he were able to control certain behaviors. Although I often disargeed with him on the Adult with LD forum, I enjoyed his post. They were often extemely humorous (intentionally).

I love you Barb but…

Ball only sounds intellegent. He is manipulative and deciteful. As some of the MORE intellegent members here have pointed out, he looks for studies that suit his needs. Not studies that state the truths on both sides. We have all been around the internet several times. We have run into the scare tactic websites, they all use the handful of long ago discredited studies he is using. As some one once said; He could care less about our kids, or he would be doing some thing productive about what he believes instead of making heart broken parents looking for answers and solutions feel bad. I think the way we have exposed his garbage has made parents here feel better, and I’m not going to stop making him look like an idiot. “Why don’t you kill yourself” or the lyrics to Eric Clapton’s Cocaine are not the posts of anyone I consider intellegent. It is a pathetic example of what happens when your parents don’t believe in psychiatric disorders. Thank you L Ron Hubbard!

Thank you for the polite post.

I agree that Ball only posted what supported his side, even if it was total junk. I think he knew it was junk but just wanted to be right, or in the limelight, or something. And he personally attacked. And he thought he was smarter than everyone else. And he gave new parents bad data. I think banning him was very much the right thing to do.

I also think he was an intelligent adult who contributed much to the adult forum. :wink:

I am not suggesting he come back here. He burned too many bridges. I hope he is able to control himself better on the next board he visits so he to can find a place to be.

As an equal opportunity defender of non-judgemental attitudes, I feel compelled to request that we not make personally denigrating remarks about Ball or anyone else that posts. I don’t mean we can’t comment on the effects of a person’s posts, but to question a person’s intelligence is below the belt, to me. I would say the same about offhand remarks regarding L. Ron Hubbard. Unless you have specifically read his writings, making generalizations about him in his absence is not really very helpful. Suppose someone is reading this who is a Scientologist or who has read L. Ron Hubbard’s works and finds them valuable? We could lose a good perspective that might benefit us all, and so might they. Again, we have judged people’s beliefs rather than their behaviors.

I realize it is difficult to hold one’s tongue when attacked, or when what appears to be dishonesty is displayed. But if we want this to be a community that supports a diversity of views, I would ask that we restrict ourselves to commenting on specific behavior and not cast aspersions on people’s character. People should be free to believe whatever they want, as long as they grant us the same rights. I we want to have sane discussions and hold other posters to that standard, I think we need to stick to it ourselves.

–- Steve

I’ll get off my soapbox. I apologize in advance if anyone is feeling offended - that is definitely not my intent. I just want to keep our communication level and respect level high.

I have been following this and I would be amused if this wasn’t so pathetic. I mean children who are palgued by neurological problems is serious business. Squabbling about an absent poster is pretty infantile. The other thing is charges have been made but no proof is offered. I guess it is pretty easy to bash someone who cannot defend themselves.

Actually I get the sneaking suspicion that you Steve are actully Ball pulling the wool… If you are legit, aren’t you the least bit curious to read the posts that got Ball banned?

I have been posting and lurking here for quite awhile and I have yet read anything offensive. You can do a search of all of Ball’s past posts.

I have exchanged e-mails with Ball and I think he is being inacurately characterized here.

What is also quite telling to me are the classless personal attacks that are being allowed. I think it reflects poorly on this forum.

If you are Ball email me and let me know. Also, play nice.

No, I am not Ball and have never read any of his posts on this board. I actually read his post on another board which interested me in seeing what was going on here. I don’t know if my postings have impacted the board culture, but I am certainly pressing for people to “play nice”. I think it is critical, regardless of our reading of the literature or our personal values, that we treat each other respectfully and not put down other folks for their views. Parents have some difficult decisions to make. I think parents and kids have gotten the short end of the stick in this debate from the word “go”. My hard feelings are reserved for those “professionals” who selfishly promote their own agenda for their own personal profit, and are comfortable misleading people with propaganda disguised as “science”, designed to scare people into doing things they profit from. I also have a hard time with parents (and “professionals”) that can’t respect other parents’ right to decide about their own kids

I am all for informed debate that respects all viewpoints. I think by engaging in that kind of debate, people become more able to see things from multiple viewpoints without feeling they are “wrong” in someone else’s view, rather than feeling like they have to defend their entrenched viewpoint from the “enemies”. I know that most parents aren’t scientists and most don’t have the time or resources to research these issues as much as most would like. So I think the best thing is to let folks know that 1) whatever decision they reach is OK by me, 2) I want to provide as much information as possible for folks to reach an informed decision, and 3) I and others have been able to deal with “ADHD symptoms” without choosing medications, so it can be done, and there are folks to support you if you make that decision.

As long as we don’t have to agree about everything, I think we’ll get along fine.

–— Steve

I too would love to see the infamous Ball posts. I take it you have a problem with drugging kids to make them behave.

I agree that too many professionals don’t have children’s best interest at heart but I take it step further. I do think many parents are duped but I also believe that there is a growing trend of abdicating their parental chores in favor of a chemical solution.

Steve, are you as alarmed as I am at the growing trend of medicalizing human behavior.

We are a pill nation. A bicarbonate of soda is no longer good enough now we need a slew of acid blockers so that people can continue to eat like swine. We now have SSRI, benzodiazapenes, MAOIs, beta blockers, tricyclic anti-depressants ect… so we don’t have to face reality and conduct our lives responsibly.

Millions of mind altering drugs get swallowed everyday when what is really needed is a good stiff dose of reality.

I see Ritalin as a performance enhancing drug but it doesn’t enhance performance in the long term. I will not deny it’s possible therapeutic benefits in a minority of cases but overall it is therpeutically useless. Methylphenidate aka Ritalin is nearly identical to cocaine. As far as I know there is no therapeutic benefit to cocaine.

What is also alarming is that Ritalin and other drugs are easily available online. Somebody is buying it that way.

Sorry for the rant but I have several reasons why I feel this way.

I am in agreement that this issue needs to be viewed in a larger cultural context of multiple social messages encouraging people to abdicate responsibility. (I would stay away from using words like “duped” though - kind of insulting to anyone that has chosen to use medicaiton.) There are plenty of people who are concerned about this trend. Clearly, in my own situation, I chose what I saw as the most responsible route, and have never regretted it. However, I was always taught not to judge others for the decisions that they make. There is a lot of disinformation and propaganda floating around on both sides of the issue. There is also HEAVY pressure from some school districts or teachers to put kids on medication, with scare tactics about how “your child will end up dropping out of school, delinquent, pregnant at 16 if you don’t medicate” adding to the confusion. There are also counter-scare tactics about creating drug addicts, which isn’t really supported by the reasearch, either. It is VERY difficult for parents to make an informed decision in this atmosphere. I respect anyone who is willing to come to a website like this and try to sort through the chaff and find some kernels of wheat in there.

To me, the most convincing argument is the one you put forward - the long term benefits are meager or non-existant, and the risks of medication use are significant (as is true for basically ANY medication). So why take the risk of slowed growth, sleep loss, appetite suppression, or the less common risks of psychosis, depression, anxiety, or even (in rare cases) serious heart damage or death, if there isn’t some pretty fantastic positive result to make it worth those risks? That’s how I viewed my own informed decision process.

But some folks, based on their personal situation, make the decision that the short-term benefits of the medication in terms of behavior changes are worth the risks. Which is fine. I just want everyone to be aware of the risks involved and to give a real picture of the benefits in the long term, so that others are not hoping for some magical solution from the medical profession which the research convincinlgy has demonstrated is not forthcoming. And I want folks to know that, even in very challenging situations, if you are committed to another path, that path does exist and can be travelled.

It’s all about informed consent. My objections to the current trend in “mental health treatment” by medication is not that such medications exist and are used, but that we are given false information and false assurances, overstating the benifits and understating the risks, and failing to provide alternative strategies with their risks and benefits, so that it is impossible for people to make informed choices. Knowledge is power, and we should share what we know. But I totally support any parent who is seeking information in making the best decision they are able to.

Parenting is a tough job. There are enough people coming down on parents. I’d prefer we aim our salvoes where they belong - at the irresponsibility of the drug companies and the medical and educational communities for failing to provide true informed consent to parents facing these challenging decisions. We all may come to different decisions, but at least we will come to them respectfully with full knowledge of the possible implications of our choices. I believe that well-informed and well-intended and fully empowered parents are the best defense against drug company propaganda. Dividing ourselves based on our choices just diminishes our collective strength.

Some parents do choose to put their kids on Vitamin R but others are coerced and even threatened by authorities.

I think people are duped everyday.

Good people can be bad parents and bad people will always be bad parents.

To what degree parents abicate their parental responsibility is unclear but in my opinion given the divorce rate alot of people are ill equipped to be parents.

6% of American kids are on vitamin R. It is unbelievable to me that that many kids are so terribly flawed that they need psych-stimulants.

Long term use in of speed even in small doses effect the heart.

I share your concerns, but your tone is still very demeaning. Perhaps you have some positive alternatives to bring to the table? Unless you have some parenting experience to share, there is not much use in posting critical remarks. It just pisses people off.