Hello,
I have just recently received scoring from DD’s second private evaluation in two years. We are struggling with a school that sees a child performing for the most part above grade level, but falls apart at home. She is a teacher pleaser, 8 years old in 2nd grade (has an early Sept b-day so missed the cut) in a full Spanish Immersion Program. The only instruction she receives in English at school is 45 minutes a day of English Language Arts and that started in 2nd grade. She was identified for the gifted pull-out, a once weekly 45 minute period based on her Naglieri score @ the 98th percentile.
Originally her IQ was measured @ PIQ 115, VIQ 122, FS IQ 121, with the abbreviated Wechsler in October of 2001. At that time she was also screened for CAPD and ADHD and was given a dx of ADHD/Nos, her VMI at that time was rated at the 2nd percentile. She underwent about 8 months of weekly OT working on sensory, gross and fine motor issues. The psychologist at the time was concerned that there may be an underlying learning disability, however at the time was unable to conduct achievement testing due to insurance prohibitions.
Fast forward -
WISC III
Verbal IQ 119 90%
Perf IQ 104 61%
Full Scale 113 113%
Verbal Comprehension 118 88%
Perceptual Organization 109 73%
Freedom from Distractabilty 112 79%
Processing Speed 91 27%
Subtests
Information 14
Similarities 12
Arithmetic 13
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 12
Digit Span 11
Picture Completion 9
Picture Arrangement 16
Block Design 12
Object Assembly 8
Coding 8
Symbol Search 8
WJIII Cognitive
Processing Speed 114 82%
Visual matching 108 69%
Decision Speed 117 87%
Retrival Fluency 121 91%
WJIII Achivement
Basic Reading 115 84%
Spelling 108 71%
Editing 96 39%
Puncuation/Caps 104 39%
Math Calcs 98 44%
Calculation 100 51%
Math Fluency 88 22%
Math Reasoning 106 65%
Applied Problems 108 71%
Quantative Concepts 105 63%
Children’s Auditoring Verbal Learning
Immediate Memory Span 115 84%
Level of Learning 101 53%
Interference Trial 116 86%
Immediate recall 72 3%
Delayed Recall 87 19%
Recognition Accuracy 16%
Total Intrusions 16%
WRAML
Story Memory 15 95%
Design Memory 12 75%
Wechsler Individual Written Expression 102 55%
Test of Language Development Primary III
Picture Vocabulary 14 91%
Grammatic Completion 12 75%
VMI now at an astounding 61% for her, which I think has practice effect, she took this in 10/2001, 3/2002 and 12/2002 before this testing in 1/2003.
I have lots of other info, from previous evaluation, but this has gotten very long as it is. My primary questions or concerns are, can anyone tell me if they see a learning disability in these scores? Why did her IQ drop over the last year? Is some of what we see as her weaknesses a result of being tested in English while primarily she is learning in Spanish? Is she gifted/ld? The neuropsych that performed this second round stated that she didn’t necessarily see any specific learning disability, but that DD is slow in processing. She also was tested with the new IVA test for ADHD and neuropsych dx’d her as ADHD/Combined, recommended a 504 with testing acommodations and assistive technology.
I am trying to prepare for requesting a 504 for her, but I am feeling unsettled in my plans of addressing this with the school, as I know I will again see the blank stares regarding a seemingly bright child with learning disabilities.
Sincere thanks for any and all input.
Re: Help with Understanding
She struggles with homework, taking hours to do what appears to be short assignments. She has a very hard time writing letters, making and keeping friends, refuses to do her required 20 minutes of reading a day. I do realize that after a full day of school, that perhaps some of these things are coming at a time of day when she has had enough. She also seems to be hitting a wall, it is getting more difficult for her to compensate and she is now more easily frustrated. We see tears about 50% of evenings, it is just difficult to see our DD suffer like this.
Concerned Mom
?disagreeing with two dx of ADHD
Special ed. help thru public school is based upon the ans. to these ?s: is the student failing to make effective progress in school? is the reason a disability(like LD)? is special ed. and or related services the answer? IF your child is not struggling in school at this point, you may want to further discuss the dx of ADHD and treatment with the two private evaluators; not every child who struggles with homework has a learning disability. Once achievement testing is complete, look at http://alpha.fdu.edu/psychology/expected_achievement.htm to compare IQ and expected achevement schores with the results of testing. You might want to repost with bilingual child/testing help in the subject line, that is a still an area to pursue, is the gifted ed. in Spanish also?
Re: Help with Understanding
Have you tried medication for this ADHD? It often makes a world of difference for a child.
Re: ?disagreeing with two dx of ADHD
Because she had been compensating so well, we had only tried a two week trial of methlyphenidate which brought about tears, tummy aches and headaches. DD said it did help her focus at school, but we felt that the side effects were too negative to justify further use. We are asking our pediatrician if she can try Strattera on Thursday. My husband and my step-son do carry a dx of adhd/inattentive so that is why we even went down this road, thinking that was what we were experiencing. Thank you SAR, I will repost as you suggested. I am just trying to tease out whether we are looking at just ADHD or if there is some CAPD, her scan-c testing came out at a total score of 79%, however her auditory figure-ground was @ 25%, or if there is any learning disabilty, based on the slow processing and the lower scoring on the performance piece of the WISC III or differences/discrepancies in the achievement testing.
Thanks for listening!
Re: Help with Understanding
She struggles with homework, taking hours to do what appears to be short assignments. She has a very hard time writing letters, making and keeping friends, refuses to do her required 20 minutes of reading a day.
Ah. These things can be because of her ADHD. It also sounds as if her fine motor skills and/or a possible dysgraphia are playing a role.
With this information, I have trouble understanding why though they look back at you with totally blank stares or - how she can be completely successful in school when she has a hard time writing her letters? They don’t see her struggle with writing letters? That should be a red flag to them. That doesn’t quite make sense. Do they believe she has ADHD? If they do, they shouldn’t be looking back at you with blank stares. What do they think is causing her writing difficulty?
If they truly look back at you with blank stares, I think they’re trying to get out of doing something more than they’re doing. Put your ear to the ground. What exactly does your school do for children with learning differences? What accomodations and or modifications do they normally offer? You would benefit from connecting with other parents.
Your daughter would benefit from reduced homework and possibly an IEP that specified modified homework at the least.
Good luck.
Re: Help with Understanding
Have you heard of Non-verbal Learning Disorder? Your daughter has many of the red flags…
VIQ/PIQ discrepancy (VIQ higher)
Poor motor skills
Poor social skills
Many NLD kiddos do very well, and are tapped as “gifted” in early elementary school, only to “hit the wall” as the go further through school. I’d suggest that you take a look at some of the articles on this site about NLD, and also on:
www.NLDontheweb.org
I pushed and nagged and harried my son through 2nd and 3rd grade at the insistence of the school that he “just wasn’t trying”, before we had a private neuropsych eval and found out exxactly what we were dealing with.
Karen
I see areas of weakness but I don’t fully see why you undertook to have her tested. What are you looking for? Why she falls apart at home or why she is successful in school?
I also think ‘all bets might be off’ when we test a child in English, who’s taught in Spanish. But the diagnosis of ADHD can explain a lot particularly about children falling apart at home.
The bottom line question is though - what do you want the school to do? If she is successful in school, you will always get blank stares from them unless you have very specific suggestions as to what you want them to do. Let’s understand the point of school is at best to enable children to be successful in school. The point of school is not to make children successful at home.
Young children can fall apart - at home or in school. There’s no remedy against that. You might do some reading up on ADHD or try to get in touch with your nearest local chapter of C.H.A.D.D.
Good luck.