Could my 5 year old daugher have ADHD? At wit's end!

Thre could be a variety of reasons why you see this behvior in your daughter. Yes, ADHD may be one of those reasons. You stated that you adopted her; do you know anything at all about the background. Such as did the biological mother take drugs during pregnancy, was physical or sexual abuse invovled etc. I’ve worked with families with adopted children and all that I’ve mentioned, can affect behvior. Nonetheless, it sounds like an appn’t with the doctor is necessary. A complete physical should be done as well as a honest talk with the doctor about her behavior. He/she can then make the necessary referrals to other suport professinals for assissantance. Good luck and God Bless you and your husband for being so willing to take her into your heart and home. Doris

The anger part isn’t necessarily an aspect of the ADHD diagnosis. I think the “high needs child” viewpoint is really a good starting place, but I also agree that you want to look further at causal factors. You say she was adopted at 7 months old. I work with abused and neglected children, and I can tell you that you would be amazed at how much physical and psychological damage can be done in 7 months. A lot of unfocused anger can result from pathological care in the early months of life, to the point that a child may not really believe that she can trust ANYONE to take care of her after that point, no matter how consistent and loving they may be. And these children are frequently misdiagnosed as ADHD and put on medication, because they ARE very hyper and impulsive, but it is due to anxiety and anger and mistrust of the world, as well as sometimes due to physical damage (like head injuries or untreated ear infections) that continue to impact them into the present.

If there is any way to get more information on what happened to her in he first 7 months of her life, it would probably be extremely helpful. You might even be dealing with fetal alcohol effects (FAE), which also can manifest with similar behavior patterns to ADHD. I would make certain that whoever you see is fully aware of the possibility of prenatal substance abuse or possible problems in early caretaking that might explain the seemingly irrational anger. This is not a simple situation, and your regular family doctor might not be up to it. Educate yourself, be a good consumer, and don’t accept the first story you hear. There are probably no simple solutions, though it may be reassuring to get a “diagnosis” and a “treatment”. You will be better off with someone that admits they are’t sure what to do. You must understand that the science of the mind is in its infancy, whatever great claims the brain researchers might make. Both the diagnoses and treatments (including ADHD) are still based on a lot of speculation and guesswork, and there is plenty of controversy and conflicting information. It is hard, but take the time to become an expert in the field, and advocate for what YOU think is needed, including whatever special attention your daughter may need to get through this difficult period.

Good luck to you. If you want to share more details, I’d be happy to give some suggestions on behavior managemnent techniques.

–— Steve

I find your post very interesting - and very familiar- because when my own son was that age, I also came to the conclusion that my family ‘didn’t work’. It was the only way I could describe it and I used just the same words to the doctor whose advice we sought.

As children get older - and families too - we rather programmed to expect our children - and our families - to be able to do certain things. While we can’t expect every moment of family life to be picture perfect, we should be able to expect a quiet evening without incident once in a while. We should be able to go on an outing - at least some of the time - without feeling anxious as to what might happen during the outing or overwhelmed when we come home from it.

I realized my family never had a quiet evening or a smooth family outing and then I realized that it was due to my son. At age 5, he couldn’t be depended on to ‘go and get his jacket’ - a fairly simple task. On the way to his jacket, he’d run off in another direction or heatedly argue that he didn’t even need a jacket.

Are some children ‘high need’ without being ADHD? Probably but how would one tell the difference might be the question. We posed just that question to a physician and we did put our son on medication which helped immensely. After that, our family seemed to ‘work’ like other families and to have the more normal ups and downs that families have rather than being run constantly ragged and feeling like things were ‘out of whack’.

Not every family is interested in medication and not every ADHD child has a positive response to medication. If you have a local chapter of C.H.A.D.D. near you, you might be interested to have some of their information or to attend some of their meetings. CHADD is a group which works to support families whose children have ADD or ADHd. You can find their website on line.

Good luck.

Several people have asked, some privately, about our daugher’s birth history. Unfortunately we have absolutely no information and no way to find out anything about her history before age 2 months, when she was abandoned at an orphanage in Cambodia. We do know that she was starving when she was abandoned and weighed just 5.5 pounds at the time, so obviously she didn’t get adequate nutrition during a pretty critical period. We were also told that prenatal care is uncommon and given her situation at two months, it seems pretty likely that her bio mom didn’t get adequate nutrition during her pregnancy.

We have an appointment to see a doctor, but the first time he can see us is the end of September. Does anyone have a suggestion about what to do in the meantime? *Any* advice at all would be helpful. I hate that I’ve given the impression that she’s a monster. She’s a loving, charming, funny and fun girl so much of the time. We have a 4 month old baby (our bio daugher) and she and Olivia are just in love with one another. In some ways having a new baby seems to have helped Olivia, which isn’t at all what I expected! She is so gentle and helpful with the baby and no one makes the baby laugh as much as Olivia does!

to determine what precedes the outbursts-keep a written record-be as objective as you possibly can

what does she get out of her actions? In Dr Phils words, ‘whats the payoff’?

She is getting ‘something’ or she would not be doing these things. You need to get inside her head and figure it out as it is unlikely she can verbalize

An ADHD child needs brain stim and ‘exciting’ the family certainly would fit that category. She also could be seeking attention(ripping the mag you are reading instead of being with her) I dont know if youve read anything about sensory integration disorders but the ripping and slamming could also be meeting a sensory need

You want to try to divert her as soon as you see the process beginning.

I stopped a head banger in a play group I taught by seeing the emotions start to well and immediately having him jump. This sounds like distraction, but there is more to it. Sensory wise, head banging provides proprioceptive input. If THAT is what he was seeking(vs just ‘being mad’)substituting another form of that input would meet his need. It worked.

Buy a mini-tramp and direct her to it when you see the storm coming. Silently, remove her from the door slamming and put her on the tramp. Dont try to stop the behavior but instead find an acceptable outlet. A box of old newpapers to shred would be another possibility

Gymnastics would be a wonderful activity for her

I am skeptical of the dr being of much help. I would contact your Early Intervention office and ask what they would recommend for a child of five(they will most likely only go to age 3 but part of their job is referrals) An agency that serves children with special needs would be another source. If she had Downs or autism, where would you go? That place is most likely to offer you appropriate help. If she is 5 and not in kindy, your school district has a preschool program in place that could offer help or advice(assuming you are in the states)

Good luck

Abandonment and time spent in an orphanage are just the kind of things that would create the damage I am speaking of. You definitely want to talk to someone that knows a lot about child development, and particularly about what is called Reactive Attachement Disorder. I am not saying your child would merit this diagnosis (though I am very skeptical about these mental health “diagnoses”, as they are all VERY subjective!), but an understanding of what happens in severe cases of neglect may give you some idea of what is going on and what you can do about it. Make sure you don’t just see a family physician, because many of them wouldn’t even know what I am talking about. Matter of fact, a lot of therapists and psychologists don’t really get it either. So shop around and ask them questions about whether early childhood neglect can cause behavior problems. If they deny that it can, or don’t know, find someone else. I’d also be suspicious of anyone who acted like they had “the answer” without doing a lot of thinking and questioning. There is probably not an “answer”. You will have to go through a long process of figuring out what works.

It sounds like you have done a lot to help her heal from her early experience, but there may well be a lot of anger and mistrust back there that just has no means of expression for her. As far as what to do at the moment, she seems to have a lot of positive qualities to build on, so I might start with giving a lot of pre-emptive positive attention. Whenever she is helpful or loving or cooperative, be very positive, give lots of physical affection, and spend a few minutes doing something fun with her. I’d have a long list of 5-10 minute activities that she likes to do, and just have her pick one out when she is doing well. This may disrupt your day a lot at first, but hey, she’s disrupting it anyway, why not be proactive about it. I also did a lot of stuff with sticker chart programs, where the kids can earn stickers for positive behaviors and cash them in for rewards. She might have to have a very high rate of reinforcement to start with. What’s the longest she tends to go without getting into trouble? Use that as your base starting time and challenge her to make it that long, even if it’s only 5 minutes or less. I would pick a few very specific behaviors at first to work on, and if she does them for the prescribed period, she gets a hug and a sticker. If she gets, say, 5 stickers, you do one of the activities with her. If she gets up to maybe 25 or 30, she gets some bigger reward (maybe a half hour reading on your lap). I also used to “bet” the kids a quarter or even a nickel that they couldn’t accomplish a certain goal. They always were motivated to prove me wrong.

Another really helpful thing is to put her to work. She likes to help, so anytime you are doing something (washing dishes, shopping, vacuuming), you involve her in some part of the process - real work that she can see is productive. The more my kids worked, the better they behaved.

You may have to just put a lot of time in right now for several months before you can get her on the right track. She may just be going for the stimulation of getting people upset. If she can get attention and stimulation by doing “good” things, the acting up may decrease. You can also share with her how you feel, in a non-critical way, when she does certain things. If she is empathetic, she will not want to hurt your feelings, and probably doesn’t really understand that you are feeling bad when she acts out. The more feedback you give her about how she is affecting you, the sooner she will learn not to do things that you feel bad about.

If this doesn’t work, you may have a more serious problem on your hands. But don’t give up hope! We worked with our oldest for about 6 years on behavior programming (no meds!) and he eventually has become a very caring and capable individual who understands the need to follow social rules. Some kids are a lot more work, especially if they have some developmental challenges from their pasts to deal with. Be patient and persistent and creative, and you will come out the other end.

Hope that is helpful - let me know if any of this needs further explanation. Good luck!

–- Steve

Steve is right. A good behavior modification program can do wonders. I remember always walking on eggshells around my son when he was little. I remember avoiding public places because of the temper tantrums.

I used the book, “Backtalk,” with great success when my son was about 4. Honestly, I haven’t needed to use the techniques as much recently because he learned at a young age that there are consequences to everything. I think he internalized the idea of ‘personal responsibility,’ pretty well. He recognizes that he has choices and that for every choice there is a postitive or negative outcome.

Be careful reading too much into the fact that she was adopted. I think some kids who have had a tough start are sometimes not held accountable because of the perceived disadvantage. Some kids just need more structure and more limits than others.

With a new baby in the house, families are very busy and under pressure. That was exactly the time that I began to notice my own son’s impulsivity maybe because it’s the time when we particularly need them not to be impulsive - we are so busy tending to the baby.

The easiest short term solution is to enlist some help. I put my older son in preschool every morning after the baby came and that was a great help as it was a great break. Your Olivia is 5 - she could be in kindergarten this year or an all day preschool.

We also started to hire some of the neighborhood teenagers to come in after school and help. When grandparents could come, it was wonderful. I also would rent films for my older son to watch that would help to settle him. I’m sorry I had to ‘park’ him in front of the tv at times but it seemed to calm his impulsivity and gave me another break from it.

Some of the behaviors you’re seeing right now could also be an older sibling’s demand for attention in the presence of a new baby. Ripping the magazine out of your hands and climbing on things may just be Olivia’s way of saying when you’re not holding the baby, hold me not the magazine. Even though she loves her baby sister, she may not love the loss of attention that simply has to occur when a new baby comes home.

Good luck.

Your situation sounds all too familiar to me as well. And they did find my son to have ADHD. I really can not say for sure whether or not your daughter does. But my son was diagnosed with a severe case of ADHD. And everything you have described, describes him at that age. Have her tested. I think you have a good reason to suspect it.

First, stop looking for a label. If you don’t, you may find yourself in a few years with a drawer full of old ones that were used for a while before being discarded in favour of another.

If you want Olivia to have a label, “Magazine Tearer” seems to be suitable. She has MTS or MTD.

Now, why would a perfectly normal person tear magazines and commit other disruptive offences? Frustration?

What is frustrating Olivia? Can she communicate okay? Is she getting enough attention? Has that newcomer been fully explained?

Every effect has a cause. Find the cause, not a label for the effect.